Bitcoin Forum

Someone posted this on their facebook wall... thought it was interesting, but haven't visited any of the links to verify the numbers.  But it wouldn't surprise me...  I really dislike the fact that my tax dollars go towards helping people who break the law, regardless of the actual dollar amount.



It's easy to dismiss individual programs that
benefit non-citizens until they're put together
and this picture emerges. Someone did a lot
of research to put together all of this data.
Often these programs are buried within other
programs making them difficult to find.


A Real M Eye Opener
WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?

You think the war in Iraq was costing
us too much? Read this:

We have been hammered with the
propaganda that it was the Iraq war and
the war on terror that is bankrupting us.

I hope the following 14 reasons are
forwarded over and over again until
they are read so many times that the
reader gets sick of reading them. Also
included are the URL's for verification
of all the following facts.

1.
$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare
to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify
at: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8

2.
$22 Billion dollars a year is spent on food
assistance programs such as food stamps,
WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify
at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

3.
$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on
Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

4.
$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on
primary and secondary school education
for children here illegally and they
cannot speak a word of English!
Verify
at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt....0.HTML

5.
$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for
education for the American-born
children of illegal aliens, known as
anchor babies.
Verify
at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML

6..
$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to
incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML

7.
30% percent of all Federal Prison
inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.CNN..com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt...01.HTML



8.
$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on
illegal aliens for Welfare & social
services by the American taxpayers.
Verify
at: http://premium.cnn..com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01..HTML

9.
$200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed
American wages are caused by the illegal
aliens.
Verify
at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI



13.
In 2006, illegal aliens sent home
$45 BILLION in remittances to their
countries of origin.
Verify
at:. <http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm>
14.

The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration:
Nearly One million sex crimes committed
by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ...
Verify
at: http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

M
The total cost is a whopping
$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS
A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME,
HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING
THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS
$338,300,000,000.00WHICH
WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE
THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF
THIS COUNTRY.

Oh boy... where to start with this.

A) Illegal immigration is one of the most ridiculous "non issues" in society today. Who cares if Mr. Mexican arrives in the US? The only problem is if the government gives him stuff by taking it via taxation from someone else. But, this is a problem of welfare/socialism, not a problem of "illegal immigration."  You know who is far more expensive a burden than the immigrants?? The legal American citizens! That is where the outrage should be - that a bunch of fat lazy Americans get welfare paid by theft from other people, whilst complaining that "the illegals" have come into the country to work. End welfare for everyone and this problem goes away.


B) "$200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens."  <-- this is total bullshit and makes up the majority of the sum total at the bottom. The sentence should be changed to say, "$200 billion per year is saved by companies who are smart and moral enough to hire the most efficient labor inputs for their products and services." If an American cannot compete with a Mexican for the best labor at X price, then the Mexican should get the job! Simple as that. Illegal immigrants don't cost anyone anything, so long as they are not given welfare (and again, this is the problem of welfare in general, not as it pertains to illegals)

C) It is terrible and ironic that the US claims it is a "capitalist, free market country" while at the same time price fixing labor (minimum wage), and interfering with cross-border labor markets. Anyone who believes in free trade must believe in open immigration - for labor is a service. If it's wrong to stop apples from being traded to China, then it's wrong to stop Juan from coming to the US to pick those apples.

D) Complaining about remittances is utterly obnoxious and absurd. If a man earns $10, it's his $10 to do with as he pleases, including sending it to any other place he pleases. If $45 billion is sent in remittances, then good for those workers who earned $45 billion!

If America was a free country, a man could walk from Mexico into the US, start working, and be able to keep the profits of his labor. Unfortunately, America is a socialist empire with delusions of capitalism, and its citizens are so fat and noncompetitive that they must petition government to prevent harder working, more cost-effective Mexicans from arriving in the marketplace. Any problems with illegal immigrants is, upon reasonable inspection, actually a problem of welfare as a system, not of the free movement of labor (which a market economy demands).

I agree with you on all points evoorhees, well written!  I am completely against the welfare system we have in the states, as it only discourages responsibility and hard work.

I know someone who is on welfare... a single mom with 3 kids.  She was able to buy, on the taxpayer's dollars, a flatscreen TV, a laptop, a blu-ray player, etc, etc.  It upsets me when someone who does nothing but stay home with their kids all day can afford things more easily than my family can, when I'm working 50 hours a week and struggling to put food on the table for us all.

So I guess it's fairly predictable that the particular brand of anarchist libertarian on this forum wouldn't have thought through his philosophies enough to realize that eliminating redistributive policies would also completely eliminate the fictional "labor advantage" of people who have to travel a thousand miles in order to work...

It is kind of surprising though that evorhees at least can't intuitively make the connection between the FED's substantial inflation tax and wages lost to immigration.  Would you call the Federal Reserve "moral"?  Do you consider the petrodollar "moral"?  It seems rather odd to couch the exploitation of what is effectively modern-day tribute labor in terms of morality, especially when the armies that extract that tribute are financed via wealth-redistribution.  And you go so far as to label the corporate beneficiaries of this theft the "moral" ones?  I disagree.  This is a huge issue, and one that is intimately tied with the fundamental reason for Bitcoin's existence.  It's too bad that more of you don't recognize this.

Read it twice. Still don't know what your point is or even what you are saying. o_O

I'm pretty confident that evoorhees believes the FED to be immoral. Excuse me if I'm wrong.

As to the topic, it's asinine to blame immigration when we have sanctioned a monopoly institution with the moral right and obligation to initiate force and steal, then not realising that IT is the source of all our woes.

Hmmm yeah I read it three times and have no idea what he was saying. I think his thesis is this: "eliminating redistributive policies would also completely eliminate the fictional "labor advantage" of people who have to travel a thousand miles in order to work..."

What does it mean?? What is the fictional labor advantage?

And what's the comment regarding the "petro-dollar"?  That's just a term referring to revenue generated by oil-rich states. I have no problem with people selling oil (though it should be privatized, not state run)... lol not sure what to address exactly :)

If it's on state's land then it should be state run.

Hehe, it takes some thought, but BDees has a point.  Think wage controls and what happens if they were gone.

I'm not smart enough to understand. But, wage controls should be gone, regardless of immigration issues. No man has the right to dictate what two other men agree via voluntary contract.

Perhaps. But the state ought not have land.

Why can't states have land/resources?  In fact I think that's what a state should have, and use those resources to provide materials, services and jobs for its people. This way you won't even need taxes to fund infrastructure etc which are wastly more efficient to do in centralized form. I'm not saying it should be 100% of the economy, perhaps 10-20% .

This is also where the die hard libertarians fall short. Something DID come before you, a long chain going back to the land/resources.
So who owned those in he begining? God? Native peoples ? and sold them for booze and fake pearls or taken at gunpoint..
The state should retain control/ownership over some but not all land/resources, and develop those using both public and private companies i competition.


What I think he means is that our current monetary system IS a huge redistribution system to benefit the rich. Especially the dollar. If the dollar wasn't used in world wide trade like oil etc, the US would not have been able to run super deficits year on year and print like there is no tomorrow during this financial crisis.

I can't believe the number of people who really believe this nonsense.

Trade account deficits are current account surpluses.

That $45 billion sent "out" of the country actually represents $45 billion of foreign investment in the USA.  It has to be exchanged to be sent out, so that means someone with a foreign currency values those dollars more than what they hold.  Why might that be?  Answer: because they can use those dollars to buy American-produced goods and invest in American companies.

$3.4 billion is lost every year to earned income tax credit on children that actually live in Mexico.

I totally agree with you all.
In Panama we have the same situation where ilegal inmigrants work for much less than a citizen and send all their income back home and pay no taxes on it...
So they displace legal workers and the country has an outflow of cash.
Its awful, and recently the government relaxed the inmigration regulations once again. So more people will be coming this way and taking their money away...

This is the latest way to pass off debt to future generations:  print money, send it on a long trip around the world, and by the time it comes back you'll be dead and someone else will have to deal with the hyperinflation.

The question is, does it work when every country does it at the same time?  We're going to find out...

I love how a country founded by Illegal Aliens now ostracizes them so much. Hypocrisy seems to have no limits! We used germ warfare to start this great country!

If only the indigenous Indians had known how to build really high fences when the first ships sailed up?  ???

The reason everything in your list is so expensive is because money is becoming worthless and has been designed to do so by the same kinds of idiots who would kill just for a piece of land. Maybe it's also one of the main reasons Bitcoin exists?

http://vimeo.com/2244372

If it included the taxes paid by illegal immigrants and the money saved by companies who hire illegal immigrants, it would show a net positive. Immigration is what built this country. The desire of people to slam the door shut behind them sickens me.

+1

Immigrants is what is saving the rotten occidental civilization nowadays.
Whether the legals or the illegals, they are the only ones who want to do the "hard and dirty" jobs.

Anit-Immigration is just an extension of the belief that lines on maps are somehow absolute and real and not just arbitrary and made up.
There are no countries just individuals making decisions about what's best for them and their families.
Patriotism is as ridiculous as belief in the flying spaghetti monster.

I would say $4.99 a piece?

I'm certainly not against immigration; but suggesting that the lines don't matter is just silly.

At the very least it defines were you send the tax cheque, and how big it is.

They are certainly arbitrary, but it matters which side of it you are.

So, we have a system where some individuals are declared by other individuals as "legal", and others as "illegal" irregardless of any behavior of said individuals? 

As I understand it some people are "legal", others, sorry they are OK for slave trade and to help let out aggressions of idiots and fascists and further the progression of said idiots' mental illness which seeks to ensure their children are even more unhappy then they are. 

One way to deal with this kind of epidemic mental illness is to identify it and keep it from afflicting you.  No person is illegal.  All men are created equal.  Act accordingly.

 

Since "legal" and "illegal" only have meaning within the arbitrary borders of a country; yes countries are perfectly entitled to create whatever laws they want.  Including declaring some people "illegal".

You are perfectly free to disagree with those laws, consider them wrong and immoral but that does not alter the fact of their existence.

Personally, I would like the boarders of the USA to be open to everyone.  If a person shows that they have intent to become citizens of the United States then they should be able to come.

What bothers me is that the current immigration favors one group over another.  With the close proximity of the United States to Central America, we get a lot of immigrants from those nations but less from Asian, Africa, and Europe.

There are many good people all over the world.  Currently we have a family based immigration system where families will sponser a family member in another country to come here.  It is not a good system and it needs to be fixed, but allowing people that did not go through the process to cut in line is not the answer to the current problem.  This will only cause more people to bypass the legal system and do it illegally.

Borders are just lines drawn on a map. There is no such thing as an illegal person.

Laws are just words written on paper, there is not such thing as an illegal act.

It's only illegal if you get caught...

I will just leave this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW20EMJr6o4&feature=related

This is distracted thinking that fails to notice the obvious source of the problem. All the money "we spent on illegal immigrants" has not burned in fire, and it was definitely not burned in fire by the illegal immigrants themselves: the money simply changed hands. Public funds mostly ended up in private pockets of for-profit insurance companies, hospitals, law enforcement, bureaucrats, and so forth. Illegal immigrants, Iraq, health care, war on drugs, are simply excuses.  Even if someone eliminated illegal immigrants, big capital and investors would simply find another excuse and another way to maximize their profits - especially by sucking off public funds. The problem are not illegal immigrants, the problem is ideological.  It is amusing to see how many Americans are being fucked hard by their own, all while blaming foreigners for the pain...

The people who make the decision to become illegal immigrants have already taken that into account. They've decided that being illegal is a better economic choice than being legal. Personally, I doubt I would ever be that courageous.

Illegal immigrants are a heck of a lot cheaper than rich wealthy bankers who produce little :P

Not quite bro.  The person who decides somebody's existence is illegal is an asshole. 
They come from a sad family with a history of mental illness. 

While I agree, I would change "existence" to "presence", because except in a few very rare cases, they don't kill illegals, just send 'em packing.