Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin is NOT like a corporate product with massive marketing campaigns and streamlined distribution. It's obviously easier to use your existing credit cards and bank account.

However, unlike credit cards and banks, Bitcoin works to your benefit.

Bitcoin frees you from nonsense such as:

• Having your account closed without any choice
• Unfair or inappropriate fees
• Unwanted surveillance and tracking from banks (what you do with your money should be only your private business!)
• Comparitively fast and cheap global transactions

And Bitcoin helps promote:

• Healthy, non-inflating currency
• Step towards government spending control to reduce funding for unconstitutional wars and excessive government waste
• Step towards stronger middle class and less poverty
• Power in your hands, not banks or governments

And so, yes, it is often harder and more complicated to use Bitcoin. It's easy to just sit around and complain that Bitcoin is too hard to use. It's too often looked at from a commercial campaign perspective. Bitcoin vs Credit Cards. Bitcoin vs Google Wallet. But using Bitcoin is something that primarily benefits you to figure out. It is not in the best interest of big corporations or government. It is the money of the people.

I wish people would understand what a wonderful free contribution Bitcoin is to the world of finance and economy, and appreciate whatever already does exist for it.

It will get better, but it's going to be a largely grassroots effort. Companies such as Bitpay, Circle, Coinbase, Overstock, and such all help towards things to some extent, but it's core values and benefits only make sense to be pushed by you the actual user of Bitcoin. That's what these companies are responding to. Assuming that you say the benefits are worth it.

And maybe it just sounds like a pipe dream, but I'd like to think that it's always worth the tiny unhindered baby steps towards world peace. How can it not?

Sadly most people don't care about these things, just like they don't care about everything else: war, taxes, government etc. They just want to get on with their life with minimal fuss, but their unwillingness to buck the trend and cause a fuss is a big part of the problem. We can see the benefits of bitcoin, but will the mainstream fully? I'm not so sure.

This is what I've been preaching since I took my spacesuit off and put on my thinking cap instead of my Moon Helmet:

This community will be built by the people from the inside, not the companies who accept it, the businesses that sell it, and largely not from some Messiah sent from Cryptoheaven with the "killer app" or "Biggest Merchant"

I'll be using some of my bitcoins with other local bitcoiners here to grab a beer this week. What about you?

Not exactly true in it current state.It is still kinda costly to obtain bitcoin and convert it to fiat.The volatility doesn't help either.

It still wouldn't stop "popular" wars,though.


Doubtful, at best.


The problem is the general public don't really have much problem with  the current system nor do they care about the purported flaws in the fiat system or bitcoins' supposed advantages.Not to mention that bitcoin isn't exactly non-geek friendly nor does it offers any benefit to the common joe for them to delve more.Granted bitcoin is still pretty much in its infancy and many of this  may be improved in the future as the infrastructure matures( more dummy friendly, actual cost saving etc).[/list]

Can you explain this one to me? It looks like the money supply is currently inflating at 10% PA. The inflation decreases over time, but it seems it will take a very long time before Bitcoin becomes non-inflating.

Amen brother  :)

Very nice write-up. Have a dime for your time.

Interesting read thanks, will share around.

They will. It is just a matter of time. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJjCeW-d7k) When the flaws will show their real effects, people will care.

One of smart person's first reaction to whom I showed bitcoin.org & videos about Bitcoin was "Oh, so small amount of views, screw it - shame on it", and "Oh, this web-site's design & everything on it sucks, so shame on it too".

The worst thing about this person, is that he has capabilities to understand Bitcoin, but he never tries, even though we did pretty intelligent approaches to give him a clue. And most of intelligent people are like that.

And it doesn't matter the quantity of intelligence that people has. Not everybody is mature enough to grasp the ideas behind Bitcoin. The positive thing about it all - is that I'm sharing to everyone I know about Bitcoin for 2 years already and during such small amount of time few of smart people came back & started to ask me more questions, and usually they come back with huge amounts of money ready to invest to Bitcoin industry.

Has never happened to 99 % of the peopel thus they don't care


My credit card company offers me 4 % chargeback. I don't get this with bitcoin.


Uhm with bitcoin everybody who I paid with once can now track my entire spending habbits.


Fair enough but at the moment not really meaningful given that the other person more often than not can't do anything with the bitcoin in their country.


Which is completely nullified by its volatility. Why would I give a fuck about 1 - 3 % inflation when bitcoin can lose this value in an hour? Not to mention that inflation is already nullified by the interest on my bank account.


Yeah .... most people are a) not libertarian and b) not keen on commiting a felony.


What? The wealth inequality within bitcoin is much worse than anything in real world.


See points above.

Sorry but you are writting this from a very biased position.

Can you add that bitcoin is not just its price too?

You seem to say that bitcoin will take the power back to the people, bring a libertarian paradise, bring world peace, and solve world hunger.
First, if the US government wanted to control bitcoin, wouldn't it be trivial for them to start mining to get a 51% share (would cost at most a few billion dollars, which is pocket change for the government). Then don't they pretty much control the ledger?

Second, since all the transactions are on a public ledger, data mining the ledger to track spending habits will be a very lucrative thing. Bye, bye privacy, then.

Not true. All bitcoin transactions are public and data mining the blockchain will one day be very profitable. Another problem is that the fungibility of bitcoin is at risk with a public ledger. For example the threat posed by "coin validation".


Bitcoin is very inflationary. The supply of the currency increases by 3600 btc a day which is 9%+ per year at this point in time.

I completely agree.

Many people don't see or care about the advantages of bitcoin, and don't look into it.

I also think many people don't realize the flaws of fiat. Maybe because they are not hurt enough by it, or do not realize most of their financial trouble is caused by fiat itself.

This realization needs to spread.

Luckily so, if it wasn't inflationary at the start, it would mean the creator of bitcoin would own 100% of them! and it would be worthless. Satoshi gave us the chance to mine some of our own the first couple of years of bitcoin. And of course there's going to be inflation. But unlike the dollar and other fiat, the inflation in bitcoin will end. In fiat, inflation worsens over time, in bitcoin it lessens over time.

There is difference among price inflation or issue inflation. What you talk about is issue inflation and i dont think is high right now at all.
What OP says is price inflation, that right now when price is not stable is quite hard to measure. But eventually there wil be deflation.

One of the main selling points of Bitcoin is its open ledger, where anyone can see every transaction that's ever been made. It might be pseudonymous to a certain extent, but it's more transparent than the fiat banking system.

We should all keep in mind that cryptocurrencies are tools. Even the scamcoins were "tools" in the hands of their creators (I hesitate to say developers because we all know that they were just Bitcoin clones) designed to make them rich. By itself, Bitcoin can't solve all of Earth's problems because it's just an application of our technological capability. What I like about it is that I could make a pseudo-anonymous donation to a charity that accepts Bitcoin right now and interested parties would have to do a ton of digging that could well cost them more than the donation is worth to figure out that Greenpeace or Wikileaks or whoever I decide to send it to is half a Bitcoin richer because of me. The half Bitcoin doesn't decide to send itself because it can't. So always keep in mind that even a really neat technology is only as good as the people who use it.

Very well said. It frustrates me to read these "what's in it for me" posts by people who either have no interest in or are oblivious to the big picture.

I totaly agree with you.

• Power in your hands, not banks or governments

Help to avoid the "Bubbles" creating every now and then by Bankers.

Everything is true. It has one weakness though. It needs a device connected to Internet to complete the transaction.

Bitcoin was fueled by silk road, no silk road no reason for new consumers to acquire and spend.

Post SR bitcoin was fueled by spec money, end of 2013 1100 btc today it's 300's, and spec money is gone

Btc is sliding back to 30 buck btc and then maybe 3 buck btc

There's not one reason for any consumer to acquire it and then spend it, and if you think btc is a legit investment, ok, 9 month history down 70%, that means DUMP

I wonder how many people will come here when btc is back to 30 or 3 buck value?

Charts show 70% drop in value last 9 months that means SELL NOW or you will be holding 30 or 3 buck btc soon

One may argue it's a weakness, but most things especially payment processors require a conection to something at least. I think even credit card machines may use the internet now, but they used to be sent down telephone wires I think.

Well,

Here is something that I wish Bitcoin newbies would understand.....

Bitcoin (in it's current state) cannot and WILL NOT free you from nonsense such as:

a) Having your account closed without any choice
I am guessing you are talking about banks here.
Well, for a bank to close your account it means that you are either:
1) involved in criminal activities (which they don't approve ;) )
2) are a bad customer. e.g. not paying your loan.

b) Unfair or inappropriate fees
Let's get one thing clear.
In order to obtain Bitcoins you need cash.
So in order to obtain Bitcoins you need to transact through a banking institution, therefor paying their fees.
Apart from that, you pay additional fees for transfering your Bitcoins, plus the exhange's fees, etc.
Your statement could not be more invalid because as a matter of fact, you pay MORE fees.

c) Unwanted surveillance and tracking from banks (what you do with your money should be only your private business!)
Here: http://blockchain.info (http://blockchain.info)
Type in your Bitcoin address and tell me if you see ANY discretion.

d) Comparitively fast and cheap global transactions
If I am to look at this from a consumers point of view:
Visa payments takes only 1 second and there are NO FEES paid by the consumer.
Apart from that, if I get f*cked by a merchant I can always do a chargeback.
Bitcoin on the other hand takes 10 minutes to confirm your payment and there are NO chargebacks in case you get f*cked.
Why is the consumers point of view the most important.
Because you need demand. And demand comes from the consumer, not from the merchant.
   
   
And Bitcoin (in it's current state) DOES NOT help promote:   

a) Healthy, non-inflating currency
And let me add that by the time it get's there, there probably wont be anyone interested in it.

b) Step towards government spending control to reduce funding for unconstitutional wars and excessive government waste
Did you even think about this before you posted it?

c) Step towards stronger middle class and less poverty
Hmm, like how?
There are only 2 classes in the Bitcoin eco-system:
The rich and the ones that give to them.
The sooner you realize that the better things will be for you.

d) Power in your hands, not banks or governments
So, how is having a digital asset - which is worth NOTHING in REAL VALUE - give YOU in person power?
Let's say you have 10,000 BTC.
How does that make YOU more powerful than a government or a bank?
I think that, you are forgetting that Bitcoins "value" is priced in FIAT.
And since MONEY talks, Bitcoin walks.

So, to close this.
I REALLY WISH that Bitcoin newbies take off their tin-foil hat and do their research and stop living in the hope that Bitcoin will save them.
That will not happen.
So come back to reality and see things as they are.
Use Bitcoin ONLY for what it is.
A method transacting which seems to be more successful for criminal activities rather than help YOU.
 
Now, please do some hard research and come back after a few months of experience on the subject and then let us know what Bitcoin is.
Start from here:
https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf (https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf)
I see nothing in the paper that says it will do so and so for the people.
What I DO see is a way to stop chargebacks and prevent double spending.
Basically what I see is a way for merchants to be covered NOT consumers.

Then, once you have finished reading (and actually comprehenting) the whitepaper go here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3;sa=showPosts;start=520 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3;sa=showPosts;start=520)
and read all the posts until you get to the latest.

Then Do your own due dilligence.

Now, I have only addressed the matters you brought forward.
I didn't even get to "the centralization" part of Bitcoin yet, and I wont.
I think you have enough to research for now.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I wish there was someone like me saying to me what I just told you when I first got in to Bitcoin.
I would have done a lot more research on the subject before jumping in.

So I guess MY ADVICE TO NEWBIES IS that there is two sides to a coin.
Stop looking at only the "benefits" (which are NOT valid) and look at the negatives as well.
Also, if you are NEW to Bitcoin PLEASE DO NOT advice others to jump on board unless YOU YOURSELF have VERY GOOD KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT.
Otherwise not only you will lose money, but the people you have adviced to jump in will lose money too.

PS: I expect a bashing from the Tin-foil hatters but I couldn't care less because I use my own due dilligence and don't follow the crowd.

Nicely put.

Interesting write up.  It would be cool to see how many newcomers use it because its gimmicky versus newcomers who use it for actual substantiated reasons

Most people just want to ride the bitcoin wave to get rich.

Too bad the bubble is bursting.

Spot on!

Start with family and friends...what i find is most are amazed at its value per BTC. Then i break out the simple supply and demand lecture and explain the limited supply. This peeks interest.

Currently accepting BTC on my request, and assistance in setting up are my electric company(rural electric company), local grocery store, local gas station, and trying to get my city water dept to accept BTC to complete my utilities and primary needs each day. Dish already accepts BTC, and im hoping virgin mobile will soon accept BTC for my phone service.

I have setup my company in town (Tech company with a technical name) and i have people just stop in to ask what i do. Most are like"  do you work on computers?" I promptly tell them no, that i help support a secure network within the Internet that is called the Internet of Money. And then i invite them to my bitcoin 101 workshop that i have each tuesday and thursday. Most accept the invite and come. These include other merchants, insurance agents, doctors, lawyers, etc.. Trying to get a buddy of mine to accept at his used car dealership/broker.

I tell my merchants to to invite their customers to the workshops when they ask " What does Bitcoin accepted here mean?" LOL, thats how i do it locally.

Just think if each one of you took this approach, a grass roots approach, we could all collectively increase awareness and community education....Even if its just family and friends.

I know that im putting myself in a potential bad situation if bitcoin fails..However, i believe in the blockchain as a technological innovation and it is now part of humanity that will never be erased. Its here to stay in some form!!!

Thats my two cents, my strategy, and my contribution to the community.

Thanks!

You raise some good points however people are still unaware of bitcoin but those numbers are changing quickly with new companies and media stories. Additionally like some others had mentioned most people won't care to look at the complex infrastructure behind bitcoin they would rather just 'use it' if they can see the benefits without the current challenges users face. Think of how many people use credit cards but then compare that to how many understand fully the credit transaction and how it works. Yet they still use credit cards currently because they are easy to use and they understand the proposed benefits.  Its our job now to start informing more people about bitcoin and making it simple to understand and use rather than bombarding them with this technical explanations they still don't comprehend when all they would like to know is how to use it and why. Its going to take some time for this to be adopted but its important that people like OP understand we need to teach individuals Bitcoin is more than just a currency and it has many utilization that should be considered.

+1 Tottaly agree

im kinda new to BTC..pretty helpful.!! I get it.!! :)

useful information for more btc adoption we need people talking about the advantages all the time

I understand what you are saying and all of it is also true but newcomers would only care about these things when bitcoin have less volatility and wider acceptance online and worldwide.

I think we whould keep our pipe dreams, and I think your post was a post of beauty. What you said, hit the nail on the head exactly.

The trouble is however that most people look at it in a shallow way, if it's complicated, why should they use it, they argue.

All the reasons that you list are valid and important reasons, but many people don't get this. They just want to work, get paid, and pay whatever they need to pay to survive.

Anyone can help to make this happen. Bitcoin has already grown a lot. The volatility might be an issue, but as long as you know about it, then you should be okay. As the market cap increases, it will become more stable.

Rally today mean there are still many who still believe in the technology.

Very helpful.. I am new here in the site and I love to read this kind of posts.

Maybe one thing good for me is that it is free from chargebacks... depends on how you look at it though.

Imagine vendors that have problems with chargebacks - bitcoin - no more chargebacks.