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Title: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: exocytosis on September 29, 2014, 12:11:22 AM http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hpfim/lets_face_it_theres_currently_no_demand_for_all/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hpfim/lets_face_it_theres_currently_no_demand_for_all/) Some highlights: First, about some of the disadvantages of Bitcoin: Quote Higher fees for the consumer, usually incurred when purchasing the bitcoin in the first place. Higher risk of permanent loss through theft (If my debit card is stolen I am not liable for anything). Also, zero fraud protection. Uncertain laws and regulations surrounding bitcoin that make financial planning difficult. Wild swings in value changing the purchasing power of your coins. Bitcoin is difficult to spend compared to cash and credit/debit cards. You need to own a smartphone with internet access to do so in person, and the vendors who actually accept the coin are extremely limited. Using fiat, to convert to bitcoins, to convert to gift cards, is retarded so don't bother using that excuse. Most current credit/debit cards offer cashback or rewards, bitcoin doesn't. You can use credit cards as short term loans if you need the money, bitcoin doesn't offer this. Using credit cards and loans builds your credit history/rating which makes borrowing money at good interest rates easy when you want to take out a home loan, using bitcoin does nothing for you. Quote The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin than other sources of payment. Let me elaborate. The common talking points are: Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back. Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof. Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus. No consumer protection - No need to elaborate. Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash. There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?" Quote let me tell you the number one objection to bitcoin wealthy investors have: Bitcoin is MLM and yes, to a 40-something financial or legal professional who considers himself moderately clued in to society, bitcoin is MLM. the way it comes off is, a bunch of people bought up a large proportion of bitcoins for cheap. and the only reason new people buy bitcoins today is because they think new waves of more people will buy bitcoins in the future then you try to compare bitcoin to a stock, oh it's ok that early adopters get rich because that happens in stocks too. except bitcoin isn't a stock. there is no product with bitcoin. there are no dividends. you don't have voting rights either unless you're an allstar developer. my point is, if you look at bitcoin objectively, it's MLM. the only reason 99% of people buy bitcoin is because they think bigger waves of people will buy bitcoin in the future. this is important because so many of you are forgetting this objection and then you go beg wall street types to get into the system. they're not buying MLM. when has wall st ever bought MLM? never. instead you should be appealing to the common man in understandable ways. openbazaar and silk road are the clearest examples of how to do that. you would have far more success selling bitcoin to people by putting up posters in the city advertising "buy dank ganja online anonymously - visit howtosilkroad.com". that's going to teach the common person to value bitcoin in a tangible way that's a clear demonstrable vector for commercial demand. everyone in 2014 was dreaming that wall street would pitch in and be the new big wave of recruits to buying bitcoin, so the old recruits would all be fabulously wealthy. shit, wall street wouldn't prop up a MLM scheme they didn't control from the top even if the entire financial system was collapsing all around them There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?" No, the pragmatic answer is "because I think more people will buy it in the future". and that, my friends is MLM. Quote What good are superior monetary properties if it's difficult to obtain coins in the first place? Worse, it's still difficult to use bitcoin, and to store it properly. Here's a perfect case in point: With PayPal, I can make a $1000 purchase with an online merchant, even though I do not have $1000 in my PayPal account. If I only have $50 in my PayPal account, PayPal automatically and instantly debits the remaining amount from my connected checking account. Why then does this not work with Coinbase, or any other provider?? With Coinbase, you can't purchase anything instantly with bitcoin, unless you already have the bitcoin in the first place. And in order to get that bitcoin in the first place, you have to wait 3-5 business days for your purchase to actually get you spendable bitcoins. Worse, Coinbase is notorious for cancelling bitcoin purchases, especially if the price is rising. And should they cancel or there be any problems, Coinbase has NO CUSTOMER SERVICE - no email contact, no online chat help, no phone number, nada. If this is the best bitcoin has (Coinbase), Bitcoin is in real trouble. The reason the price is falling so fast, is there are plenty of exit doors, either through instantaneous selling, or through wider merchant spending options, but very little or no ENTRY doors. If the Bitcoin space doesn't address and fix this elephant in the room, bitcoin will be marginalized at best, or outright doomed. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: exocytosis on September 29, 2014, 12:14:08 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? What are you willing to pay for each of them? Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: exocytosis on September 29, 2014, 12:16:22 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? I'm selling them for $5000 a piece. That shouldn't be a problem for you, since you're certain we're going above 10k any day now, right? That's at least a 100% profit for you! Special price for you, my friend! Cheap coins! Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: BittBurger on September 29, 2014, 12:16:42 AM Hey Kids:
How about we stop pretending these aren't real issues, and instead start tackling them head on? There are way too many elephants in the room. Denial doesn't make them go away. Lets address them. First and foremost, someone needs to get the Dev team off their asses and put together a priority list for enhancements, and a timeline for them as well. One that is based off actual market research and the people Bitcoin is supposed to be serving. Not one that is based off "opinions" of programmers who have no idea whats going on "out in the field". That obviously isn't working. -B- Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: hyphymikey on September 29, 2014, 12:20:39 AM Hey everybody listen to this guy! /sarcasm
He bought at the top without doing his research, sold at a loss because he had no patience. The only good thing he can get out of this is to make people lose their patience and sell too. Don't get butthurt like this guy. Buy and hold. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: knight22 on September 29, 2014, 12:26:22 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? I'm selling them for $5000 a piece. That shouldn't be a problem for you, since you're certain we're going above 10k any day now, right? That's at least a 100% profit for you! Special price for you, my friend! Cheap coins! Why should we buy them at 5000 while there are dumb people selling them at huge discount right now? ;D Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: hyphymikey on September 29, 2014, 12:28:08 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? I'm selling them for $5000 a piece. That shouldn't be a problem for you, since you're certain we're going above 10k any day now, right? That's at least a 100% profit for you! Special price for you, my friend! Cheap coins! Wait, why do you own coins when they will soon be worthless like you say? Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: exocytosis on September 29, 2014, 12:29:40 AM Hey Kids: How about we stop pretending these aren't real issues, and instead start tackling them head on? No, it's actually a lot more fun if all the cultists and permabulls continue pretending these aren't real issues. That way, Bitcoin continues failing, its image becomes even more tainted, and the Average Joes continue staying away, thus fueling a further decrease in price. That means the cultists and permabulls lose even more than they already have. :) So by all means, do continue ignoring these issues. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: exocytosis on September 29, 2014, 12:31:56 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? I'm selling them for $5000 a piece. That shouldn't be a problem for you, since you're certain we're going above 10k any day now, right? That's at least a 100% profit for you! Special price for you, my friend! Cheap coins! Wait, why do you own coins when they will soon be worthless like you say? I haven't said anything about them soon being worthless. And I have placed ca 5% of my disposable fiat in BTC, since I'm only 95% sure it'll crash to double digits soon. I could be wrong, unlike the permabulls and cultists, who're always right, apparently. At least according to them. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: knight22 on September 29, 2014, 12:39:34 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? I'm selling them for $5000 a piece. That shouldn't be a problem for you, since you're certain we're going above 10k any day now, right? That's at least a 100% profit for you! Special price for you, my friend! Cheap coins! Wait, why do you own coins when they will soon be worthless like you say? I haven't said anything about them soon being worthless. And I have placed ca 5% of my disposable fiat in BTC, since I'm only 95% sure it'll crash to double digits soon. I could be wrong, unlike the permabulls and cultists, who're always right, apparently. At least according to them. Well then you should just http://montereybayholistic.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/relax-for-health.jpg Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: cryptworld on September 29, 2014, 12:55:26 AM it is obvious that there is no buying demand because price is going down
but the interesting is to know the reason because of the higher sell sentiment Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: shawshankinmate37927 on September 29, 2014, 01:21:41 AM And I have placed ca 5% of my disposable fiat in BTC, since I'm only 95% sure it'll crash to double digits soon. I could be wrong, unlike the permabulls and cultists, who're always right, apparently. At least according to them. I hope you're right. A lot of us long term hoarders would love for that to happen. :) Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: thriftshopping on September 29, 2014, 01:23:35 AM If there is no demand, sell me all of your btc since it is garbage right? I'm selling them for $5000 a piece. That shouldn't be a problem for you, since you're certain we're going above 10k any day now, right? That's at least a 100% profit for you! Special price for you, my friend! Cheap coins! In regards to your arguments in your OP, they are all flawed nor do they reflect as to facts. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: exocytosis on September 29, 2014, 01:27:26 AM In regards to your arguments in your OP, they are all flawed nor do they reflect as to facts. They're not my arguments. They're the arguments of people on Reddit, and they're actually upvoted quite a lot in there. But sure, keep on ignoring them, and keep watching Bitcoin fail. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: TheButterZone on September 29, 2014, 01:29:50 AM Single digit or fuck it.
Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: franky1 on September 29, 2014, 01:49:21 AM the usual rhetoric that people shout to stop people buying in just so the screamers can buy more cheaper by pushing competition away, i see it many many times in different markets.
lets say exocytis is on minimum wage. .. well after paying bills and food, etc his disposible income would be maybe $30 left over.. so im guessing he has put his 5% of disposable income into bitcoin = $1.50c, no wonder why he wants bitcoin to tank to double digits. so he can atleast be a holder of 0.1btc instead of 0.01btc. the downside of teenagers shouting user adoption is that the only socialising they do is amungst their low paid peers. and thus we have all these minimum wage youngsters trying to troll the forums to push the price down so that they can dream of buying bitcoin for the price of a beer.. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: moriartybitcoin on September 29, 2014, 02:02:24 AM Folks, it should be OBVIOUS that Bitcoin price is on an artificial downward spiral due to PRICE MANIPULATION at the big exchanges!
Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: knight22 on September 29, 2014, 02:04:46 AM Folks, it should be OBVIOUS that Bitcoin price is on an artificial downward spiral due to PRICE MANIPULATION at the big exchanges! More likely because of reckless short sellers. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: kingscrown on September 29, 2014, 02:15:29 AM if u think BTC wil ldie - sell o nexchanges
if u think will raise - buy simple as that. talking means nothing. take some action! Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: cutepuppy on September 29, 2014, 03:00:34 AM Folks, it should be OBVIOUS that Bitcoin price is on an artificial downward spiral due to PRICE MANIPULATION at the big exchanges! More likely because of reckless short sellers. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: knight22 on September 29, 2014, 03:17:32 AM Folks, it should be OBVIOUS that Bitcoin price is on an artificial downward spiral due to PRICE MANIPULATION at the big exchanges! More likely because of reckless short sellers. True but by reckless short sellers I meant the sellers that take huge risks at short selling at low prices which artificially drives the price lower than the market price. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: iluvpie60 on September 29, 2014, 12:26:13 PM http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hpfim/lets_face_it_theres_currently_no_demand_for_all/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hpfim/lets_face_it_theres_currently_no_demand_for_all/) Some highlights: First, about some of the disadvantages of Bitcoin: Quote Higher fees for the consumer, usually incurred when purchasing the bitcoin in the first place. Higher risk of permanent loss through theft (If my debit card is stolen I am not liable for anything). Also, zero fraud protection. Uncertain laws and regulations surrounding bitcoin that make financial planning difficult. Wild swings in value changing the purchasing power of your coins. Bitcoin is difficult to spend compared to cash and credit/debit cards. You need to own a smartphone with internet access to do so in person, and the vendors who actually accept the coin are extremely limited. Using fiat, to convert to bitcoins, to convert to gift cards, is retarded so don't bother using that excuse. Most current credit/debit cards offer cashback or rewards, bitcoin doesn't. You can use credit cards as short term loans if you need the money, bitcoin doesn't offer this. Using credit cards and loans builds your credit history/rating which makes borrowing money at good interest rates easy when you want to take out a home loan, using bitcoin does nothing for you. Quote The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin than other sources of payment. Let me elaborate. The common talking points are: Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back. Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof. Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus. No consumer protection - No need to elaborate. Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash. There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?" Quote let me tell you the number one objection to bitcoin wealthy investors have: Bitcoin is MLM and yes, to a 40-something financial or legal professional who considers himself moderately clued in to society, bitcoin is MLM. the way it comes off is, a bunch of people bought up a large proportion of bitcoins for cheap. and the only reason new people buy bitcoins today is because they think new waves of more people will buy bitcoins in the future then you try to compare bitcoin to a stock, oh it's ok that early adopters get rich because that happens in stocks too. except bitcoin isn't a stock. there is no product with bitcoin. there are no dividends. you don't have voting rights either unless you're an allstar developer. my point is, if you look at bitcoin objectively, it's MLM. the only reason 99% of people buy bitcoin is because they think bigger waves of people will buy bitcoin in the future. this is important because so many of you are forgetting this objection and then you go beg wall street types to get into the system. they're not buying MLM. when has wall st ever bought MLM? never. instead you should be appealing to the common man in understandable ways. openbazaar and silk road are the clearest examples of how to do that. you would have far more success selling bitcoin to people by putting up posters in the city advertising "buy dank ganja online anonymously - visit howtosilkroad.com". that's going to teach the common person to value bitcoin in a tangible way that's a clear demonstrable vector for commercial demand. everyone in 2014 was dreaming that wall street would pitch in and be the new big wave of recruits to buying bitcoin, so the old recruits would all be fabulously wealthy. shit, wall street wouldn't prop up a MLM scheme they didn't control from the top even if the entire financial system was collapsing all around them There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?" No, the pragmatic answer is "because I think more people will buy it in the future". and that, my friends is MLM. Quote What good are superior monetary properties if it's difficult to obtain coins in the first place? Worse, it's still difficult to use bitcoin, and to store it properly. Here's a perfect case in point: With PayPal, I can make a $1000 purchase with an online merchant, even though I do not have $1000 in my PayPal account. If I only have $50 in my PayPal account, PayPal automatically and instantly debits the remaining amount from my connected checking account. Why then does this not work with Coinbase, or any other provider?? With Coinbase, you can't purchase anything instantly with bitcoin, unless you already have the bitcoin in the first place. And in order to get that bitcoin in the first place, you have to wait 3-5 business days for your purchase to actually get you spendable bitcoins. Worse, Coinbase is notorious for cancelling bitcoin purchases, especially if the price is rising. And should they cancel or there be any problems, Coinbase has NO CUSTOMER SERVICE - no email contact, no online chat help, no phone number, nada. If this is the best bitcoin has (Coinbase), Bitcoin is in real trouble. The reason the price is falling so fast, is there are plenty of exit doors, either through instantaneous selling, or through wider merchant spending options, but very little or no ENTRY doors. If the Bitcoin space doesn't address and fix this elephant in the room, bitcoin will be marginalized at best, or outright doomed. Nice quotes bro! May I have another! SIR YES SIR! but really... please don't copy and paste other stuff. Yes we all understand bitcoin doesn't make people want to use it, bitcoin wont take over, it will be a side thing like paypal. Paypal didn't take over all payments because banks/cc companies fought back and now u can send money to someonese email address or to someones phone number. bitcoin is more for tech minded people honestly, the dumb m(asses) will not use it, anyone who says they will is just being a moron. Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: johnyj on September 29, 2014, 08:33:39 PM Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: czlowiek on September 29, 2014, 09:11:48 PM It would be more like "the content of the cart varies on your way to cash desk".
Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: galbros on September 29, 2014, 09:29:03 PM While I disagree with the Multilevel Marketing (MLM) model the fact that bitcoin's price has stopped going up has removed the easiest reason to buy some.
I think the point about the need to make the coin applicable to common people is very important. There does not seem to be a clear successor to silk road and that's unfortunate. Also the points about storage are important, bitcoin is the like the US's wild west, if you can't protect it you are going to lose it. And the point about Coinbase is so spot on it's embarrassing, these boards are full of Coinbase horror stories. I think there is lots of opportunity for bitcoin, more privacy than a credit card, international payments, and micro payments are some obvious ones, I hope someone will post and link a serious comprehensive rebuttal. Good Luck! Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: moriartybitcoin on September 30, 2014, 12:11:11 AM there is absolutely NO DOUBT that short sellers and price manipulators are artificially crashing the price of Bitcoin, just like price manipulation at GOX caused it to rise in November 2013
Title: Re: Let's face it: There's currently no demand for all those bitcoins. Post by: Rishblitz on September 30, 2014, 12:27:25 AM Educate yourself before you make a pucrhcase. No1 rule
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