Bitcoin Forum

Here's what they wrote in their blog https://blog.coinjar.com/2014/09/30/how-the-new-ato-guidance-affects-coinjar-users/

Amazing that something that is neither a "good" nor a "service" attracts GST - you certainly can't imagine the Australian government getting away with applying this approach to "stocks" (I can understand GST applying to "fees and commissions" but not to the BTC itself).

My gosh its sickening now that bitcoin became a tool for profit now, I guess making money its what is about then, right?

This is some bullshit. In a sane world, GST would only be applied to the fees that Coinjar charges, not the entire amount. They're treating it as an everyday good and not a currency or even a commodity, and trying to shoehorn it into their existing rules on bartering which makes zero sense. This is going to kill (legitimate) Bitcoin adoption in Australia.

interesting

pulled from
https://www.ato.gov.au/general/gen/tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-australia---specifically-bitcoin/

Generally, there will be no income tax or GST implications if you are not in business or carrying on an enterprise and you simply pay for goods or services in bitcoin (for example, acquiring personal goods or services on the internet using Bitcoin). Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000 or less.


10,000 or less or will tax your ass  ;D

seems good for me as a user.. for business I feel 10% GST is too high.
Australia should embrace bitcoin business.. it will generate jobs, if they tax too high jobs will go elsewhere.

 

What you're missing is that if you "buy your BTC in Aus then you will have to pay 10% GST for that" so from the point of just "using BTC as a currency" there is basically *zero* incentive to want to *buy BTC in Aus* unless you can actually *save more than 10%* on whatever you plan to *purchase with your BTC* (i.e. cheaper to just use a credit card and maybe even PayPal).

If you are a "investor" hoping for BTC to become "worth more" then perhaps the 10% "surcharge" is not a big deal (especially if you don't have to declare capital gains).

yes true but after initially freaking out over coinjars 10% fee I had a quick look at the exchange I use in Australia it states

"The primary business of BTC Markets is to provide an exchange platform for users to buy and sell Bitcoins off each other. BTC Markets does not buy nor sell Bitcoins in its own right therefore we are not liable to collect GST on the value of Bitcoins traded on our marketplace."

and

BTC Markets will soon be collecting GST on trading fees for Australian traders. Please be advised this is just on the trading fees and not on total trade value. Below is an example only of 1 Bitcoin traded with a value of $1000 and a trading fee of 1.1% inc GST.

Trading Fee: $10
GST:  $1
—————————
Total inc GST:  $11

so its slightly higher but I think its not too bad

Stated this a while ago:

When all rules and regulations are placed on bitcoin, it will be no different than fiat.

Hmm... well that is not so bad I guess (assuming the ATO agrees).

HAHAHAHAHA, ATO You stupid STUPID fools.

ATO has just destroyed BTC purchases in australia.

I just purchased from Circle, I live in Sydney INSTANT with my Visa Debit. MUCH less spread. NO  GST. and INSTANT.


Coinjar is going to die


EVERYONE in AUS - You can now buy from circle, just add your Debit card and buy instantly

Whatever you may think of the ATO guidelines - CoinJar are certainly more pro-active than most for heeding the ATO advice and making business changes based on it. I think it adds some small legitimacy to bitcoin in Australia, even though most here don't like the taint of regulation.

Anyone care to comment on whether we can claim RITC on GST incurred on supply of bitcoin? I mean, it's basically a financial supply?

The ATO note is somewhat awesome for miners though;


So you can claim hardware and electricity expenses as a deduction!? Totally going to claim the Block Erupters I bought on Gumtree last year...

What a shame, I only started using Coinjar a couple months ago and have found them terrific...and convenient!

Just made my last purchase from them unfortunately.

GST LOL

Whats wrong with these people. First they get greedy and try and get in on the bitcoin sales, then they infest it with their stone age methods of finance and try and turn it into all other shitty centralized money.

They dont deserve any of it. Any tax charged on Bitcoins should go straight to the BTC foundation not some corrupted criminal organisation.

-1 respect

We do have until 3 October before 10% kicks in, but after that I too will no longer be using coinjar :(

How did you manage that?

I get 'at this time we are unable to link accounts from your country'.

Can't agree more, I'm flabbergasted by how small-minded the ATO's guidence is. Cutting off one's nose to spite their face describes it pretty well though. And most importantly, this punishes legitimate outfits like Coinjar and actually incentivises under the counter sales, so this will actually encourage tax evasion ffs! All they've tried to do is hammer a square peg into a round hole, regardless of how much it will hurt not just Bitcoin, but themselves in the process.

Bitcoin won't get hurt though, blocks will continue to get mined and the blockchain will grow. It doesn't care.
If you mean in terms of value, the price will just skyrocket in Australia. Prohibition of any kind will just make it more valuable.

Farewell, CoinJar. It was good while it lasted.

sayonara Coinjar!!!

made my last purchase today... $250 for 0.5 BTC , GST is applied $21 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so what's everyone's advice on how we can buy Bitcoin here in Australia?

not Circle, unless you have a US based credit card or a bank account...

thanks.

thanks for the link! :-)

GUYS You can buy from Circle if you have a Visa Debit or credit card, all you need to do is go to

Settings > Link Account > Click Next and add account.


You can 10000000000000% add a Visa debit card from NON us , everyone is doing it in europe also. I have made 5 purchase already and I am from sydney

make sure you goto Settings top left corner and then link account and then add account, if a message comes up with US bank accounts just click NEXT or continue

Hey thanks for the info. :)

Did your initial deposit go into 'pending' status?

I actually registered 2 nights ago. Verified email,  verified phone, linked visa, and made a deposit. But its been in pending status this whole time.

Did I miss a step/something?

Had an unpleasant experience with coinjar today so the sooner I get circle working the better.
Cheers

Very Strange I have now done 7 Deposits all within 4 days. Every SINGLE one I did went in INSTANTLY.

I am From Sydney Australia

I bank with St George

I use their Visa Debit Card.


Not a SINGLE glitch has occurred with circle, although I asked for the circle invite MONTHS ago but only 1 week ago they sent an email to worldwide invites outside the US and said we are all now welcome to create an account. So this is what I did

Intetesting. Mine is visa debit also (Suncorp). Never had issues with it on paypal or skrill.
Either the bank or something to do with invite you got.

Thanks for all the info though.
:)

Standard nonsensical australian government, I don't expect it will change anytime soon. Aussies will just buy overseas, and bitcoin will not be used as a day to day currency - though it still has excellent potential as a store of value

It might be worth compiling a list of visa direct debit cards or credit card that work with circle.

I tried ANZ platinum credit visa and it was a no go. I plan to get a ANZ debit visa and try that next.
Someone posted St George Debit visa is a goer.

If people that are using circle successfully in Aussie could post their type of card it would be great.

Response from Circle

We are working hard to incorporate international partnerships that will allow customer worldwide to deposit and withdraw Bitcoin to a fiat account. While some of our non-US customers have had success linking their credit/debit cards to Circle, however, not all are supported.

At this time, we are currently optimizing our non-US support and thus don't have a fix at this time. We will provide additional information soon.

Eriks, Team Circle

It seems that alot of Aussies can't use Circle and some can.

If you can't, I am in the US and don't have a Circle acct but I do have Coinbase. I'd be glad to make some deals to save you the GST on the buy. My bank can accept AUD wires and I am working on an atty escrow if interested to keep it outside of LBC and I have an LBC acct as well.

feel free to email me if you are interested.

Stu

FYI: I tried my NAB, BankWest and St George, no go as well.....

what kinds of Credit Card did you use? to the person who successfully linked their CC to Circle?

thanks!!!!

It is interesting that *every support message* seems to be from "Eriks".

I don't think Circle should even be *trying* to expand its client-base until it gives him at least a few co-workers to help out.

Oops - I didn't even realise that this was *not* the Circle topic (seems we have drifted off topic).

Do it via BPAY, or transfer, I would say use www.igot.com, or something similar since it has a 0% buy in FEE. You could sell at other places that also have low rates or send it to your www.coinjar.com swipe debit card and withdraw it out at an ATM :)

FWIW, CoinJar have now relocated to London and no longer have to collect GST.

Excellent. I like their service and will start using them again now.

I have been using Coinjar for a couple of months now and can say that they are excellent to deal with, they have the best customer support team i have ever experienced and run a very professional company.

Easy to buy coins and easy to cash out, now with the new swipe card and BTC hedging available i couldn't ask for more.
 
Also now with them relocating to the UK = NO MORE GST!!  :)
Keep up the good work guys!