Bitcoin Forum

Shit is getting real  8)

http://s23.postimg.org/6oqdsul0r/zopenbazaar_Untitled2.png (https://blog.openbazaar.org/launching-openbazaar-beta-2-0/)



https://blog.openbazaar.org/launching-openbazaar-beta-2-0/

I think it will attract a lot of people who are wanting to deal in illegal drugs (and other, more dangerous illegal items) and become a marketplace for such. The difference here verses other illegal drug sites is that the bar for selling is much lower so it would be easy for law enforcement to conduct sting operations from people buying drugs on these sites

There is no signs of this yet. OpenBazaar developers made it clear it is meant for legitimate businesses and will be attractive because it has no fees. However they also said they can't control what will be done with it as it is also censorship free but they hope the code will be forked for illegitimate usages.

They do acknowledge that the market could be used to sell/buy illegal/disgusting things like childporn, sex trafficking, illegal drugs, and a # of other abominations since there can be no censorship?

If they acknowledge that and do nothing to at least outlaw those activities...Then I truly, sincerely hope OpenBazaar gets banned/becomes illegal to use.

guess  we can use OpenBazaar  to trade bitcoins instead of centralized exchanges 
 The rise of Decentralization economy is near  :D

Sure so the government should also ban bitcoin because it can be used by criminals right? What about the USD? We should also ban cars so criminals can't runaway.  ::)

I understand where you're coming from.  I don't think anyone wants a site where "murder for hire" is allowed.  But its a double edged sword.  Freedom comes with bad actors.  Bad actors are still breaking laws, and are doing so at their own risk.  If they get caught, they go to jail, just like with any illegal activity.  We have to remember that the internet was the hub for pornographers and perverts in the beginning too.  For several years, nobody I knew had the internet, and the only shit I saw online was AOL Chat rooms dedicated to "Gay Dudes Fisting" and "Bears for Twinks" and "F my Wife, Please".  If you wanted to get laid easily in 1997, the internet was the place to do it.  You couldn't do much else there.   There was no Amazon.com until 1999.  Its a tough topic.  There are two valid viewpoints in both directions.  I suppose with the internet - nobody running it - nobody was responsible for illegal activities.  When you've got a centralized organization like Open Bazaar, there does seem to be a moral imperative.  Which they can choose to ignore if they like.

-B-

Just tried OB 2.0 .
Beta 2.0 is less buggy  than 1.0 on MAC . But the merchant is still loading slow . UDP p2p Port is not setup properly maybe  ::)

This is what I'm most excited about.

loving the bazar idea

Bitcoin can be used as a medium of exchange, just like cash, it's not an actual marketplace with listings and buyers and sellers. It's just a currency and its users can be tracked via a public ledger. However, from what I've heard of OpenBazaar, it is a marketplace that can not restrict or censore any items being sold, which makes it a breeding ground for illegal activity that can't be stopped by traditional means.

Only manpower(Agents pretending to be buyers/sellers), would be able to track down criminal(s)/criminal activity on OpenBazaar, and I'm sure if it gets big, federal police won't have such manpower.

I agree with the overall point you're making. The only problem is finding a way to stop criminal activity on OpenBazaar. If it truly can't be taken down by "tradional means" like D Dosing, etc, then the only other options I see would be taking down the nodes, or w/e keeps it running, or having the manpower to track down criminals.

Actually, you say it's centralized. Ah, I thought it was a decentralized marketplace, I'm out of my place. Sorry for the confusion if nothing I said applies here. Cheers

The same argument you make with bitcoin is applicable to openbazaar. Just like bitcoin is a free decentralized platform for money, openbazaar is a free decentralized platform for commerce. This is just the logical step further and no one should have the rights to censor global platforms. Should we also censor internet which is a free decentralized platform for communication? Should we censor YOU because of potential criminals?

OpenBazaar is decentralized.

Ok, then everything I've said applies here. lol.

I think it's up the the Feds in each respective countries to do their jobs properly at stopping criminals while leaving the platform alone.

Exactly, Investigators will actually have to commit real man power and conduct formal investigations thus making the costs of regulating drugs/piracy/gambling/guns much more expensive.

This is a great thing if you believe in personal freedom and that victimless crime laws are unjust and immoral. Otherwise, if you are a control freak, and you can't stand the fact that someone has the right to peacefully exchange good and services that you don't approve of than good luck trying to shut it down.

Here is something to ponder: Has wiki-leaks been stopped? Has torrenting been shutdown?

The beauty of this technology is statists political beliefs don't matter.... history is unfolding and you need to brace yourself for a much more liberated society and deal with the repercussions both positive and negative that come with such.

...There's a limit on "Personal Freedom". As long as your freedom doesn't affect anyone negatively, then ok. But when things like childporn, sex trafficking, giving/selling people narcotics, comes into play, that's an abuse of "Personal Freedom". That's also exactly the reason why these things should be outlawed. What you're talking about isn't freedom, it's the destruction of other people's lives at the cost of your own temporary happiness. Which is exactly what drug dealers, child molesters, sex traffickers, and more do.

Think of the children!!! Ohhh, my! Nope, not going to fall for that old trick.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

You have been brainwashed into thinking that those "protections" and "regulations" will do much to prevent the crimes you speak of.

Childporn is extremely rare and can easily be investigated with sting operations with or without Bitcoin.

Sex trafficking is also rare but Bitcoin doesn't assist such behavior. Sex traffickers are already mob/gang related and have invested in legit businesses to launder their money within. Bitcoin isn't needed.

Giving and selling people narcotics should be completely legal . I don't like drugs personally, but fuck you and your war on drugs. You know how much damage you puritans have caused society by not allowing the peaceful exchange of goods to happen?

We heard all the same excuses about the internet in the early days. Us geeks were just a bunch of child pornographers , terrorists, and chester molesters .... lies, all lies.

Putting in a backdoor into a secure protocol can and is being abused by tyrants, dictators, and hackers all in the name of "think of the children!"
The data the NSA collects isn't just stored and used for terrorists. It is being used for illegal industrial espionage, to cover corrupt and illegal actions by government departments and officials, and gives intelligence to guide drones on missions of murder around the world.

Nope, we don't want a backdoor in Bitcoin, and if someone tries to slip one in we will start using another implementation like libbitcoin.

Your opinions and politics mean nothing, regardless. This is happening. Pandora's box has opened. It isn't going away and cannot be stopped.

Sex trafficking is also rare
Childporn is extremely rare


http://thecoveringhouse.org/act/resources-2/sex-trafficking-statistics-source-documentation

This will be my only and last post to you, concerning those two "opinions" you've made concerning sex trafficking and childporn(which you were horribly wrong) with sex trafficking being a multi billion dollar industry and childporn being intertwined with sex trafficking(underage), I see that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about...

I also hope that anyone reading your post, (I'm glad I quoted it), will see that people like You are exactly why we should be glad those things are illegal. You obviously aren't very educated, seeing that you support drugs, when you should know that many illegal drugs are Highly Addicting. It's not a game you fool, snorting cocaine one time can make you become addicted, oh and "peaceful exchange of goods", do you know how many lives are lost in gang rivalries, or a simple drug deal gone wrong(which is very common)??

Learn before you type useless bullshit you fucking uneducated piece of donkey shit.

I live in a third world country and volunteer for a few organizations for women and help authorities investigate sex crimes and human trafficking.
The reality is that a lot of child prostitution is not child prostitution but teenager prostitution. It isn't Pedophilia but mostly ephebophilia, with a few cases of hebephilia.
Child prostitution or Pedophilia is very rare. Ephebophilia(most cases) is mostly caused by poor parenting , child molestation in the family, and "structural violence"
Teenagers aren't typically kidnapped and forced into becoming sex slaves but adopt that lifestyle from years of neglect.

If you think I am making my involvement in these non-profits up than we can place a few BTC with an arbitrator and I will prove to you my involvement. Come on,
put up or shut-up!


I'm glad you quoted me as well because I never said I supported drugs, in fact i said the exact opposite and if you had any reading comprehension you would notice that:


You are very unaware about the damage drug illegality causes to society. Drugs are indeed a problem, but is a medical and psychological problem that we must combat not a legal one.

1) Pedophilia is the most common paraphilia, it is not rare(not common either, it's uncommon).

2) "Child" is kind of an all encompassing word, it relates to to anyone under the legal age(18, or 16 depending on country)

3) Over 2million child molestation victims are living in the U.S right now.

Everything you've said has been wrong, except the part about you volunteering for this and that organization. Sex trafficking/molestation is a big deal, and it is Not Rare.

This is exactly why OpenBazaar(and others like it) should become illegal, unless they find a way to stop illegal trades taking place...


I broke my previous post's promise of it being the last post I made to you, but I can't stand to see idiots argue and try to think themselves right(You), when they're horribly wrong(You).

Now you are just arguing semantics. Sign, signifier , signified.... yeah, I get it, you find the definition to fit your politics.

Wikipedia - Biologically, a child (plural: children) is generally a human between the stages of birth and puberty
AHDictionary - a. A person between birth and puberty.
OED - 1. a.B.I.1.a The unborn or newly born human being   2. a.B.I.2.a A young person of either sex below the age of puberty

But of course, I'm in the wrong for using the more common definition of child, right?



This is a pointless statement. What a government or state classifies OpenBazaar as is inconsequential. It cannot be shutdown, it cannot be prevented, it cannot be filtered.
You do realize they cannot simply raid a datacenter, arrest a maintainer,  or revoke a domain name right? This isn't the silk road.

OpenBazaar is a thing of beauty that is going to bring down prices, change laws, and bring higher quality products to the marketplace. Monopolies will no longer be able to hide behind the violence of the state so easily with this technology.

https://i.imgur.com/xgEzQyy.jpg

Wikileaks is very centralized and technically has not broken any laws.

The activity that will likely occur on open brazzar will be much more illegal then torrenting. There will be much more evidence of such illegal activity as well as actual physical addresses must be used to deliver goods.

Whether or not wikileaks has broken laws is inconsequential. Do you believe states respect their own laws when it applies to themselves? Wikileaks repeatedly commits one of the most egrigious "sins" towards leaders and states: embarresses them, and this is why the US wants to extradite Julian Assange. While the Wikileaks site is not decentralized at the moment, their organization depends upon many decentralized technologies.

Yes, Police will still have to conduct investigations and users will have to be wary on vendors without reputations as they may be undercover agents just like with the silk road. The difference is there is no DPR and no server to find and shutdown the marketplace.

I want investigators the ability to catch "baddies" like child pedophiles and hired assassins. They can and will do so with good old fashion police work.

What will cost a lot of money in prevention is the peaceful exchange of services and property as they can only inefficiently sometimes catch the buyer and catching the vender is much more difficult. Additionally, there is no more "Asset forfeiture" with the vendors profits. The seizing of cash and assets is what incentivizes a lot of the unethical and harmful laws.

Overall, I believe it is hard to deny OpenBazaar is not a good thing for Bitcoin as a whole. Can it be used by bad actors? Absolutely! But bad actors have been acting badly forever. Whether or not OpenBazaar exists, they will continue on with their behavior. That should not inhibit everyone else who wants to simply buy or sell a legal good or service.

As a parent, a responsible citizen and an overall pretty normal guy, I am not thrilled about some of the transactions that will most likely take place on this platform. But that is the gift and the curse of these types of breakthroughs.

thats so stupid ... its like saying US dollar will attract drug dealers ... come on ... dont be a clown ... this is a VERY GOOD project