Bitcoin Forum

is there anybody purchasing new hardware or cloud hasing contracts?

I haven't seen any cloud hashing contract profitable after doing 2-3 calculations.

Why invest money in ASIC cards or any other brand, when the bitcoin price is trending down?

I haven't seen any hardware that you can purchase now and get at least the money back even with free electricity

Am I missing something?

I'm using this calculator:

http://mining-profit.com/advanced-calculator (http://mining-profit.com/advanced-calculator)

if anyone is making positive returns, can you show here with numbers?

Your views are current in the current situation of BTC at $300 levels.
No hardware or cloud-mining can profit at this time.
Getting back even a 50% of money spend on the above will not see back at this situation.
In-short, for now no mining is profitable for common people.
This will change if btc value goes above $600 and mining hardware companies are ready to drop their prices to some meaningful levels.

The people mining not  only for gain bitcoin , but most importantly for support the network ;) .

It's not really supporting the network though, especially if you only have a few TH/s.

There's already over 250 PH/s on the network, most of which are by those huge industrial mining operations.  If you pull your miners or shut them off, no one will even notice.  So in actuality you're just really losing money for no reason.

If you really want to support it, just serve as a node, evangelize Bitcoin to your friends, family, or co-workers, and generally just continue to use it when you can.

Mining isn't supporting Bitcoin for the home/hobby user.  It's just making your pockets alot lighter.

But in the origin the mining *was only* for support* and make strong the network ;) .  * for support your , my and ALL bitcoin  :D .


**99% are a mining farm ;) .
*** all person that know bitcoin should support it !

Yup, redsn0w, in the beginning of the CPU days, we needed as many people as possible mining to support the network.

After the Asic era launched though, it's safe to say that the Bitcoin network is out of the hands of the home miner.

Mining at home or in your own really seems not profitable with the increasing difficulty. Also with the pricey hardware and cost of electricity.

really good answers and straight into the point! thank you guys

now the question is: how big is the margin for the farms that even when the price drops they still make profits? -for margin I mean the cost of producing the ASIC miners.

thanks

Alot of these manufacturers offset alot of these costs to produce these asic miners, by selling outdated used miners to customers like us after they've mined all profitably out of it.

These same manufacturers also hedge their bets by selling mining contracts or cloud mining, which almost fully guarantees profit on their end, since it locks in customers on a term contract and tacks on maintenance fees on top.

There's a handful of cloud mining services that allow you to hit ROI in a decent timeframe:

LTCGear
Gawminers Hashlets
genesis-mining.com

I think one of the keys is to reinvest your earnings to keep accumulating your hashpower.

u gotta have  a stragtegy, treating it as a money printing machine will almost always lose. to profit u gotta put some effort in , research the whole industry daily. buy  and sell, trade   hardware/cloudmining, u gotta be flexible to get in and out of the market depending on the situation.

buy used asic cheap and mining is profitable still even at $300. with decent elec prices.

BTC would have to be about $100 for me to lose profitability right now with 0.064 power rate

Most people mine because they think they can mine more coins than the cost of the miner PLUS the resale value of the miner before the miner becomes obsolete.

I only think that mining at home is great when you got PV systems or a wind generator, etc. You know, free electricity... the costs with energy is so f*****  high. omfg.

Why are you people complaining? Mining is good if you can do the math first and calculate if you gonna be on top or not. The only factor that can change really is bitcoin price or difficulty of mining. Everything else you can calculate before.

At the current price of BTC mining is not profitable even if electricity charges are not factoring in.
When saying not profitable, I mean no ROI for any mining hardware whether its new, second hand or cloud-mining at their current price.
These manufacturers need to drop the price from highs to get the business back for home miners and small farm owners.

this isn't true. it depends on the cost of electricity and how much you buy the mining gear for

Yes it depends on as you said. But I said about the current facts.
No mining hardware is available to buy to ROI at this time.

For me it's basically a experiment, to see if I can get to ROI or not, even if the odds/math are stacked against you.

Why do gold miners mine at a loss? {They just love the gold} It's a rush to see Satoshi's being created out of nothing.  ;D

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  I like it.

If bitcoin survives the following months and rises again it will just show how motivated the community is.
Let's give it time and see. It may yet be one of the best decissions in your life (or the worst).

check this story :



The home mining is dead sometimes ago.

i'll take all your s1. they still profitable for me undervolted

After Antminer S3, it very difficult to survive as a home miner.
BTC value got corrected too much instead of jerking at or above $1000.

I tried cloud minning at cex.io and hashop.io and then I regret.
waste a money.

In cloud mining there is conflict of interest between cloud service provider and the customers.
The level playing field for both of their are "almost"(Not all) same.

Hardware cannot reach a return on the investment. So... NO. Bad idea. Expect to lose your investment. Check calculators with a difficulty change over time to see if in 1 month you will be making the same... you won't be... there is simply too much hardware being brought online by too many manufacturers and they have only hurt themselves. Do not buy hardware, you will loose your investment. They are now knowingly trying to sell you goods they know you cannot profit from, but simple calculators say that you will.
Good Luck.

194.00 or 0.58 BTC about for S3 b10 on bitmains site at least there stying with in coin prices. Should be lower  guess they have to eat to.

At the end he isn't a farm , so this category is "home mining" with 1 - 2 or 50 Ths . Because he bought this asic hardware and he  hasn't produced it , but the big farm produce the chip and mine whit it .

+ that tells me he still may be farming just doesn't know what to do with lower end hardware . so is he still farming but with 1 th 2th hardware took those  off line because of Price + Difficulty = S1 and Jupiter retirement. Just those ?!. I don't see any S3 in those PIC.


I offered some one 170 on ebay for a S3 upgrade kit they want all most 300 for  I'll see how that goes .

I'll do what I want!!!!

4 S1's and 2 S3's, wont' turn off.. let them run until failure.

Mining is entertainment? First time I heard that but enjoy :)

Hobby?  Sure.  Entertainment?  Well, I guess.

Smart trading has been more effective than mining for a long time.

That being said, home mining is essentially unpractical unless you pay below 0.08ct/kWh and live in very cold climate (and has been for quite some time now).

Over 50% of all mining power comes from either industrial scale farms or industrial scale hosting services.


The future of mining is in the "cloud" aka hosted services / shares of big mining operations.
These can actually achieve a better efficiency in terms of power / hosting costs per TH aswell as lower hardware prices.

Trading and Mining are two different business.
If for Hobby/Fun purpose Trading cannot replace Mining.
If for Profits then its better to trade currency or stocks in fiat world than in bitcoin because its more matured than btc exchanges.
There once can more effectively implement their trading strategies.

Home Mining as for now is not viable financially due to BTC value erosion against dollar.
Another thing is, even with zero electricity charges ROI is -ve due to the current hardware price.
Cloud is also not viable as per the current price listing for hashing power.
More over there are conflict of interest in that cloud hosting business model. Cloud returns are not as good as we fee from the front end.

Finally, if anyone want to do mining as a hobby/fun with a positive or neutral ROI, the time is gone.

The best is to go to country like ice land and build your own electricity generator, asic and mine yourself. Best right...

That's almost what some of the mining hardware manufacturers are doing.
They even sell their almost juiced hardware to customers.

I am not worried about if I am losing/ wasting money "Now".   The point of mining to me is to keep generating btc while I hold. I have made some ROI on my miners and also just broken even on some. At the end of the day I am mining for what btc is in 10 years not what it is now

- Electricity Bill for every country in the world is different ,and in some country you can get cheap electricity with bribe someone who has authority to do that.

- Maybe miner still hope that BTC price or other coins will raise someday.

So now with btc below $400 we can say yes mining is wasting money ,but we don't know what happen next.

If whatever happens next, it only applies to already brought mining hardware.
For those who are going to get miners are 100% losers at this time.
They should wait for BTC value to appreciate before buying new hardware.
Otherwise, buy BTC directly is the best and less risky method.
If money is not a concern and hobby mentality cracking in your brain, buy a hardware now!  ;D

I'm a home miner with 3th. Not really making money but getting some BTC. I do it for interest in the whole process of digital currency. Also I try to buy as much BTC as I mine. Mine a coin... buy a coin. I think both ways make for a fulfilling hobby and support of community. I try not to think about the farms and PH/s that are being mined. It its what it is.
Have fun and remember to spend some BTC. That is the Purpose. Don't hoard it.

You are right for 100%
Home/garage mining is finishing right now

I think we are early stage of price explosion.

Well mining is for hobby now and not for profit...

I'm with you. I've run bitcoind nodes on my computers for years. I've only recently bought my first coins, and have begun trading. I also have a couple of small Hashlets from GAW.

I just ordered a miner. Not much, a BTC Garden AM-V2 (610gh). I've configured a P2Pool node on my Linux server. I think those of us who value decentralization have to take some responsibility for the infrastructure, even if it's not "profitable." Hobby, experimentation, principles -- it's all good!

What were your achievements in running a bitcoind  these long years?

Just helping to maintain the blockchain. My PC's on 24/7 anyway, so no big deal. Running Bitcoin-Qt (and now Armory) doesn't tax my system to the detriment of my normal web surfing/streaming media/photo editing/office work. I tried CPU mining on Slush's Pool, but it bogged my system down too much for ordinary work. GPUs already had taken over by that time. I got some tiny, unpayable fraction there before I abandoned the idea.

+1.

If btc were only an improved currency and remittances system, that would be awesome enough. But there's so much more potential in the blockchain.

just try out cloudmining instead, gaw, ltcgear, genesis mining, LTCGear got an promo going on for ~5.5$ per 1MH/s in a pack of 160MH/s ~850$(all discount applyed), u use the cupon "anniversary1yr" and get 50% discount from it and another 8% from purchesing with bitcoin
pm me for my refferal link, ill give some extra mhs if you buy over my refferal :)

Hahahaha agree with this ,good point.
All miners will take a deep breath after reading this  ;D

I've been contemplating to go into mining but after what I have read in here, gotta think twice untill mining is profitable

I have an avalon2 230 GH machine I got about 9 months ago... I turned it off about 3 months ago... It was good t first but I never got the ROI...

With so many new coins out there, surely these sub TH machines can be pointed at a different coin. I can't be bothered to do the research.

I just turned my machine on for a month as my wife is away and she hates the noise even if it is way in the background.

Anyone pointing their Bitcoin asics at another coin?

I wish I just spent the money on BTC at the time but was excited to mine... Even if I break even on just the electricity I am stoked to generate some BTC to invest in my favorite alts.

Mining is not wasting money and still profitable in certain countries and can break even despite of the BTC slump.

But for us? Don't bother even thinking of mining unless you are one of 3rd nation citizen dude lol

Why would major corporates relocate their sweat shop factories to 3rd nations?

Apple Inc can’t make enough money if iPhone is manufactured in states. They develop Bitcoin-QT logic and cgminer etc and let the Chinese slaves to the labor because it’s feasible to maintain the network with little compensation to them.

You want to be naïve and join the slaves – maintain the network propaganda? Help yourself out.

Rather than thinking of mining and getting petty reward (but not that petty for slaves), we should build and preach the Bitcoin to neighbors, use it locally, adopt Bitcoin payment system if you have local legit business running etc.

Let the mining for the slaves so they can buy some meatbun for their reward.

Mining behavior objectively provide network security support, while obtaining benefits. But now the mining difficulty, has been making small miners can not survive.By mining, solve money generated fairness problem.

Not everyone is good at calculating the ASIC usage and many bills were paid by parents.. :)

My miners are now running as heaters.

Example: Two S1's under-volted work great for my home office. I don't need to run the oil fired single zone steam boiler when I work from home 2 days a week.
 

But oil is much more cheaper as compare to heat my electricity right? Unless your s1 profit can really cover the electricity bill, if not then its still not worth it..

Just to re-iterate, home miners who already have hardware can mine today in expectations of higher BTC prices in the future. They do not even have to break even today if they base their mining on a future BTC price of, sat, $900.

The prospective miner needs to balance the cost of the mining capacity against the cost of just buying the BTC. That is because mining capacity is a rapidly depreciating investment. In general, at BTC < $400 and 10% difficulty increases, you are better off buying the BTC.

This is in contrast to the situation for industrial miners who, at some level, must cash flow. So they have to sell their BTC.

Actually, it doesn't matter if BTC price is at $900 or $400, you will still not ROI your mining gear in term of BTC. If the price is $900, the difficulty would increase faster..... So you are still better of buying BTC directly..

That's what I said. If you already have gear, keep mining. If not, buy BTC.

Sell the gear instead :)...

Can you please quantify these claims. I'm a bitcoin newbie and what you're saying contradicts online mining calculators. What am i missing here? I'm confused. Just trying to learn here.

If i buy an S4 which does 2 TH/s for 1500$ the online calculators say i can make 328$ per month at the current dif. and 318$ at the next. Wouldn't i break even at 5-6 months. My power costs are close to nil where i am.

Thanks in advance.

No, you won't as the mining difficulty increases and you wont be mining the same amount every month.

Just buying Bitcoin also clueless in long term, you should use it actively, promote it if you have a local business, and make the money flow.

You need a better online calculator, none of my calculation is pointing ROI or break-even.

 ;D
The last calculator you will ever need.
Pay special close attention to the Days To Break Even!
http://www.vnbitcoin.org/litecoincalculator

I think it depend how long we ROI,
and the BTC rate also determine.

Then we will gain profit  :)

If we are talking calculators:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=805477

bitcoinwisdom calculator is awesome. Too bad none of the calculation I input give me positive ROI unless I reduce the difficulty increment to 4%.

Can you lower your electricity price?