Bitcoin Forum

saw earlier in reddit post http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tp0xt/dwolla_changes_tos_to_prohibit_bitcoin/

it asks you to accept this TOS the next time you log into your account.

details/clarification pending...gets out popcorn.   ::)

Dwolla User Agreement
Welcome to Dwolla. We developed Dwolla, a payment software, to make it easy for you to send and receive money online without all the fees of traditional systems. Although we would love to have a one page terms of service that was comprised of easy to read bullet points, unfortunately the realities of the legal world make that nearly impossible. So, please bear with us through all the legalities of this agreement- although we couldn't keep it to one page it is important you read and understand our service.


Terms and Conditions of Service
This User Agreement ("Agreement") may be modified by Dwolla at any time, for any reason, without prior notice. Please read the Agreement carefully, as it may have changed since Your last visit.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DOCUMENT, WHICH YOU MUST CONSIDER CAREFULLY WHEN CHOOSING WHETHER TO USE DWOLLA. PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY. BY REGISTERING FOR, ACCESSING AND USING THE DWOLLA SYSTEM, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTOOD, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THIS AGREEMENT. IF AT ANY TIME YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY CEASE YOUR USE OF THE DWOLLA SYSTEM.

THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS A BINDING ARBITRATION PROVISION, WHICH AFFECTS YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND MAY BE ENFORCED BY THE PARTIES.
Definitions
The following capitalized terms shall have the indicated meanings:
(a) "Dwolla, Inc.," or "Dwolla" or "Us" or "We" or "Our" refers to Dwolla, Inc., a company incorporated in Delaware that provides funds management software for Dwolla Users.
(b) "Dwolla System" or "Dwolla Software Platform" means software owned by Dwolla; provided to Dwolla Users by Dwolla; or used by Dwolla in the provision of its services.
(c) "Dwolla User," "User," "You," or "Your" means a natural person, corporation, or other entity that has established a User Account on the Dwolla System .
(d) "Partners" means natural persons or entities that Dwolla does business with in order to bring the Dwolla System to the marketplace.
(e) "Veridian Credit Union" ("Veridian") is an Iowa-chartered, federally insured credit union headquartered in Waterloo, Iowa.
(f) "Veridian Holding Account" is a pooled holding account at Veridian Credit Union that holds all the Dwolla Users funds.
(g) "User Account" is the online account with Dwolla on the Dwolla System associated with a Dwolla User.
(h) "Financial Institution" means any federally or state chartered bank, thrift, or credit union.
General
Dwolla provides a software platform that allows you as an individual, non-profit, or business to send and receive money.
You understand and agree to these important features of Your relationship with Dwolla as a Dwolla User: (1) Dwolla provides funds management software for Dwolla Users; (2) Dwolla does not receive, hold, or transmit User funds; Dwolla only maintains and manages information associated with User ownership of the funds; (3) Veridian is the entity that provides money transmission services upon instructions issued through the Dwolla software platform; and (4) Funds in the Veridian Holding Account are held in a pooled account. THESE FUNDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE, AND MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR SHARE INSURANCE BY THE NATIONAL CREDIT UNION SHARE INSURANCE FUND.
Dwolla may only be used in connection with United States Financial Institutions: User funds must originate at a United States Financial Institution, and Dwolla will only instruct Veridian to transfer funds to a United States Financial Institution associated with the appropriate Dwolla User.
Representation
Dwolla acts on Your behalf by maintaining records related to Your User Account and by sending information and instructions associated with Your User Account to Veridian. You understand and agree that: (1) You are responsible for the accuracy and validity of all information provided to Dwolla or Veridian; (2) Your failure to provide accurate and valid information may result in actions taken against Your User Account by Dwolla, actions taken by Veridian with respect to the funds in the Veridian Holding Account, or other penalties or actions as detailed in this Agreement; and (3) Dwolla is not responsible for incorrect or invalid information provided to Veridian by You through the Dwolla System.
User Conduct
You understand and agree that you will not engage in the following activities:
● Use the Dwolla system to operate or engage in any business regulated by FinCen, including the money service business;
● Use the Dwolla System without written consent in association with any online credit or virtual currency system;
● Use the Dwolla System in association with or for payment of illegal goods or service, including, but not limited to, illegal substances, illegal online gambling/ wagering, pyramid schemes, or any type of money laundering;
● Attempt to falsify Your identity, such as by providing false account information or false documents; or
● Defraud Dwolla, Veridian, or other Dwolla Users in any way.
You understand and agree:
● You will provide information requested to determine your identity, including but not limited to the following: a valid U.S. address, phone number, Financial Institution account information, photo identification, and/or tax identification or social security number.
● You authorize Dwolla, directly or through Veridian or third parties, to make inquiries it considers necessary to validate Your identity, such as requesting additional information to validate Your Financial Institution account ownership, identity, and transaction authorization. This information is requested to protect Dwolla Users.
Actions Against Your User Account due to Non-Compliance with User Conduct Requirements or Security Concerns
YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS FUNDS HELD IN THE VERIDIAN HOLDING ACCOUNT IF YOUR USER ACCOUNT IS CLOSED, SUSPENDED, HAS A HOLD PLACED ON IT, OR IS OTHERWISE LIMITED, AS DETAILED IN THIS SECTION.
You understand and agree that Dwolla is not responsible for any losses or liability resulting from actions taken against Your User Account as detailed in this section.
You understand and agree that the decision by Dwolla to take certain actions, including placing holds on or limiting access to Your User Account as detailed below, may be based on confidential criteria that are essential to risk management or security concerns. You understand and agree that neither Dwolla nor Veridian are under any obligation to disclose the details of its risk management or its security procedures to You.
You understand and agree that Dwolla is authorized, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, to take the following actions due User misconduct or Security Concerns as detailed in this section:
● Place a Hold on Your User Account for Up to 90 days:
● Temporarily or Permanently Suspend or otherwise Limit Your Access to Your User Account:
● Contact Users who have purchased goods or services from You, contact Your bank or credit card issuer, and/or warn other Users, law enforcement, or impacted third parties of Your actions; or
● Take legal action against you
If Dwolla, acting in accordance with the general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, takes an action against Your User Account, including: placing a hold on, suspending or otherwise limiting Your access to, or terminating Your User Account, We will provide You with notice that such action has been taken against Your User Account. Dwolla may also provide the opportunity to request restoration of access if it is deemed appropriate by Dwolla acting in accordance with the general parameters of conduct established by Veridian.
User Misconduct or Security Concerns that may result in any of the above listed actions, as applicable, include:
● Your Non-compliance with the User Conduct Requirements detailed in this Agreement, including attempting to use the Dwolla system for illegal purposes or attempting to falsify your identity or provide false information;
● Inability of Dwolla to acquire sufficient information to verify your identity;
● A determination by Dwolla, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, that a Hold on Your User Account is reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability;
● A determination by Dwolla, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, that there may be a high level of risk associated with You, other Dwolla users involved in the payments You receive, Your User Account, or any or all of Your transactions.
Debt
You agree in the event You have unpaid debts or bills with Users within the Dwolla System, other Users may use documentation within the Dwolla System in collection of that debt. This includes, but is not limited to, unpaid invoices or unfulfilled contractual agreements. You agree Dwolla will not be held liable for any losses or debts incurred during Your experience with other Dwolla Users.
Login / Password / PIN
You agree that You will not share Your login information, password, or PIN with anyone else. You understand and agree to take all necessary steps to protect Your User Account information as detailed in this Agreement. Dwolla will never ask for Your password or PIN number. You agree Dwolla carries no liability for losses or problems that may arise due to Your sharing this private information with other people, businesses, or entities.
You agree Dwolla may communicate usage information to Your Financial Institution or any service providers to that Financial Institution.
Multiple User Accounts and Dual Log In Sessions
You understand and agree that You may not maintain multiple User Accounts or use multiple User Accounts simultaneously. You understand and agree that Dwolla may provide Your usage information and personal information to state or federal law enforcement in accordance with applicable law. Any misuse or misrepresentation of the Dwolla System (including, but not limited to, attempting to use multiple User Accounts) may result in suspension of Your User Account or other actions.
Dwolla User Accounts are also not eligible for dual log in sessions, meaning that a User of a personal account may not simultaneously be logged in to his or her User Account on more than one page or from more than one location. In the event a second log in session is initiated, You agree Dwolla may disconnect both log in sessions and require any User to revalidate the User Account.
Reversals
The party receiving funds in a transaction may be subject to reversals occurring within the account if claims are made by the sending party or by the sending party's financial institution.
You understand and agree that:
● If there is a reversal of a payment to you, you will be liable to Veridian for the full amount of the reversed payment plus a fee in the amount of $15 ("Reversal fee"). The reversed payment plus the reversal fee is the "Reversal Liability."
● Reversals are debited by Veridian in the Veridian Holding Account and will be reflected in Your Dwolla User Account.
● If You do not have a balance in Your Dwolla User Account that is sufficient to cover Your Reversal Liability, the remaining balance in Your Dwolla User Account (if any) will be used to cover the Reversal Liability, and You authorize Dwolla, acting on behalf of Veridian, to take any of the following actions:
         1. Debit your attached Bank Account in the amount of the unpaid portion of the Reversal Liability;
         2. Suspend Your User Account and require you to take immediate actions to repay the unpaid portion of the Reversal Liability; and/or
         3. Engage in collection efforts to recover the unpaid portion of the Reversal Liability.
Error Resolution
In Case of Errors or Questions About Your Electronic Transfers Telephone us at (515) 280-1000 or E-mail us at compliance@dwolla.com.
You should contact us as soon as you can if you think your account statement is wrong or if you need more information about a transfer listed on the account statement. We must hear from you no later than 60 days after the account statement was first available for you to access on the Dwolla system in which the problem or error appeared.
        (1) Tell us your name and account number (if any).
        (2) Describe the error or the transfer you are unsure about, and explain as clearly as you can why you believe it is an error or why you need more information.
        (3) Tell us the dollar amount of the suspected error.
If you tell us orally, we may require that you send us your complaint or question in writing within 10 business days.
We will determine whether an error occurred within 10 business days after we hear from you and will correct any error promptly. If we need more time, however, we may take up to 45 days to investigate your complaint or question. If we decide to do this, we will credit your account within 10 business days for the amount you think is in error, so that you will have the use of the money during the time it takes us to complete our investigation. If we ask you to put your complaint or question in writing and we do not receive it within 10 business days, we may not credit your account.
For errors involving new accounts, we may take up to 90 days to investigate your complaint or question and may take up to 20 business days to credit your account for the amount you think is in error.
We will tell you the results within three business days after completing our investigation. If we decide that there was no error, we will provide you a written explanation. You may ask for copies of the documents that we used in our investigation.
Logging
You agree Dwolla, for security, legal and performance purposes, shall record information and transaction information. This includes, but is not limited to, Your operating system, IP address, usage statistics, and transaction frequency. This information can be vital for not only security, but insuring our products are fulfilling their intended purposes.
System Maintenance and Updates
Dwolla may, from time to time, perform maintenance on its systems and/or update its systems. Such maintenance and updates may result in temporary unavailability of the Dwolla System and temporary inability to access Your funds held at Veridian. You agree to relieve Dwolla from any liability or losses that may be associated of such maintenance or updates.
Warranty
SERVICES PROVIDED BY DWOLLA ARE ONLY AS REPRESENTED IN THIS USER AGREEMENT. DWOLLA DOES NOT INSURE FUNDS. FUNDS ASSOCIATED WITH USER ACCOUNTS USING DWOLLA'S SYSTEM ARE HELD IN AN ACCOUNT MAINTAINED BY VERIDIAN CREDIT UNION. FUNDS HELD AT VERIDIAN ARE HELD IN A POOLED ACCOUNT. THESE FUNDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE, AND MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR SHARE INSURANCE BY THE NATIONAL CREDIT UNION SHARE INSURANCE FUND. NO OTHER WARRANTIES ARE EXPRESS OR IMPLIED.
No Endorsement or Guarantee
YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT DWOLLA IS SOFTWARE PLATFORM THAT MANAGES INFORMATION ASSOCIATED WITH USER FUNDS HELD IN THE VERIDIAN HOLDING ACCOUNT, AND DWOLLA DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY ENDORSEMENTS OR GUARANTEES FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL, COMPANY, OR OTHER ENTITY USING THE DWOLLA SYSTEM, AND DOES NOT ASSUME ANY LIABILITY FOR PRODUCTS OR SERVICES PURCHASED USING DWOLLA SOFTWARE.
Force Majeure
You understand and agree Dwolla will not be held responsible for losses or damages resulting from suspension of service due to extraordinary events or circumstances beyond the control of Dwolla Corp (a "force majeure event"). In the event of a force majeure event, Dwolla may suspend service and access to the Dwolla System
3rd party API use
You agree Dwolla will not be responsible and holds no guarantees regarding the reliability, use, or misuses therein of the Dwolla API program. Please see our separate API Agreement here www.dwolla.com/tos/dev.
Consent to Electronic Transactions and Disclosures
Because Dwolla operates only on the Internet, it is necessary for You to consent to transact business with Us online and electronically. As part of doing business with Us and Veridian, therefore, We also need You to consent to Our giving You certain disclosures electronically, either via Our Site or to the email address You provide to us. By agreeing to this Agreement, You agree to receive electronically all documents, communications, notices, contracts, and agreements arising from or relating to Your User Account. The decision to do business with Us and Veridian electronically is yours. This document informs You of Your rights concerning Disclosures.
Electronic Communications. Any Disclosures will be provided to You electronically through Dwolla.com either on Our Site or via electronic mail to the verified email address You provided. If You require paper copies of such Disclosures, You may write to Us at the mailing address provided below and a paper copy will be sent to you at a cost of up to $5.00.

Scope of Consent. Your consent to receive Disclosures and transact business electronically, and Our agreement to do so, applies to any transactions to which such Disclosures relate, whether between you and Dwolla or between you and Veridian.

Consenting to Do Business Electronically. Before You decide to do business electronically with Dwolla or Veridian, you should consider whether you have the required hardware and software capabilities described below.

Hardware and Software Requirements. In order to access and retain Disclosures electronically, you must satisfy the following computer hardware and software requirements: access to the Internet; an email account and related software capable of receiving email through the Internet; a web browser which is SSL-compliant and supports secure sessions, such as Internet Explorer 5.0 or above and Netscape Navigator 6.0 or above, or the equivalent software; and hardware capable of running this software.

Withdrawing Consent. You may withdraw Your consent to receive Disclosures electronically by contacting Us at the address below. However, once You have withdrawn your consent, You may not continue to use the Dwolla System, and may be required to close your User Account.

How to Contact Us regarding Electronic Disclosures. You can contact us via email at compliance@dwolla.com or by calling (515) 280-1000.

You agree to keep Us informed of any change in Your email or home mailing address so that You can continue to receive all Disclosures in a timely fashion. If your registered email address changes, you must notify us of the change by sending an email to compliance@dwolla.com or calling (515) 280-1000. You also agree to update Your residence address and telephone number on the Site if they change.

You agree to print a copy of this Agreement for your records and You agree and acknowledge that you can access, receive and retain all Disclosures electronically sent via email or posted on the Site.
Arbitration
You and We ("The Parties") agree that upon the election of either of You or Us, any past, present, or future dispute relating in any way to Your User Account, or any other past, present, or future relationship or transaction between You and Us, will be resolved by binding arbitration as discussed below, and not through litigation in any court. (Such disputes are called "Claims" for purposes of this agreement.) This arbitration agreement is entered into pursuant to the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. ¤¤ 1-16 ("FAA"). The arbitration shall be conducted by a single neutral arbitrator acting under the administration of United States Arbitration and Mediation, MidWest, Inc., and in accordance with the then-applicable United States Arbitration and Mediation Rules of Arbitration. Unless You and We agree otherwise, or unless the arbitration administrator's rules or law require otherwise, the arbitration shall be held in Minneapolis, MN.

The arbitrator will decide the Claim in accordance with all applicable law, including recognized principles of equity and statutes of limitations, and will honor all privileges recognized by law. The arbitrator will have the authority to award to a Party any damages or relief provided for under applicable law. The arbitrator's decision shall be final and legally binding, and may be enforced by any court having jurisdiction.

No class actions or similar process, and no joinder or consolidation of any Claim with a Claim of any other person or entity, shall be allowable in arbitration, without the written consent of both You and Us. The arbitrator shall have no authority to entertain any Claim on behalf of a class, group, person, or entity who is not a named party to the arbitration, nor shall any arbitrator have authority to make any award for the benefit of, or against, any class, group, person, or entity who is not a named party to the arbitration. In the event that there is a dispute about whether limiting arbitration to non-class proceedings, or to the named parties, is enforceable under applicable law, then that question shall be resolved by a court rather than by an arbitrator; and to the extent it is determined that resolution of a Claim must proceed on a class basis, it shall so proceed in a court of competent jurisdiction rather than in arbitration. If You elect to proceed with respect any Claim by an individual action in a small claims court, or its equivalent, instead of arbitration, we will not object,

If the arbitrator or arbitration administrator would impose filing fees or other administrative costs on You, We will reimburse You, upon request, to the extent such fees or costs would exceed those that You would otherwise have to pay if You were proceeding instead in a court. We will also pay additional fees or costs if required to do so by the arbitration administrator's rules or applicable law.Apart from the foregoing, each Party will be responsible for any other fees or costs, such as attorney fees that the Party may incur. If You consider that you are unable to afford any fees or costs that would be Yours to pay, You may request that We pay or reimburse them, and We will consider Your request in good faith.

ARBITRATION WITH RESPECT TO A CLAIM IS BINDING AND NEITHER YOU NOR WE WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO LITIGATE THAT CLAIM THROUGH A COURT. IN ARBITRATION YOU AND WE WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS THAT APPLY IN COURT, SUCH AS THE RIGHT TO A TRIAL BY JUDGE OR JURY AND THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE OR BE REPRESENTED IN PROCEEDINGS BROUGHT BY OTHERS SUCH AS CLASS ACTIONS OR SIMILAR PROCEEDINGS. IN ADDITION, THE RIGHT TO DISCOVERY AND THE RIGHT TO APPEAL MAY ALSO BE LIMITED OR ELIMINATED IN ARBITRATION. ALL OF THESE JUDICIAL RIGHTS ARE WAIVED WITH RESPECT TO CLAIMS THAT YOU OR WE ELECT TO ARBITRATE
Privacy Policy
Dwolla's privacy policy is managed using a trusted third party service, TRUSTe. You can find our privacy policy here.
Data Retention
User information regarding User utilization and registration will be stored for a minimum of 3 years in a highly secure datacenter in accordance with PCI standards. This information is stored for the purpose of reporting at the financial institution level and is not sold or otherwise utilized for profit. It is not accessible to other Dwolla Users or Dwolla merchants.

Reportedly there now are 'normal" and "special" merchant accounts:

> (00:52:52) MagicalTux: we have written consent from Dwolla, basically now Dwolla has "normal" merchant accounts, and "special" merchant accounts with extra requirements

 - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tp0xt/dwolla_changes_tos_to_prohibit_bitcoin/c4ohxsq
 - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tp0xt/dwolla_changes_tos_to_prohibit_bitcoin


tl;dr: Another PayPal is born (in the negative sense):

You understand and agree that you will not engage in the following activities:
- Use the Dwolla system to operate or engage in any business regulated by FinCen, including the money service business;
- Use the Dwolla System without written consent in association with any online credit or virtual currency system;


YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS FUNDS HELD IN THE VERIDIAN HOLDING ACCOUNT IF YOUR USER ACCOUNT IS CLOSED, SUSPENDED, HAS A HOLD PLACED ON IT, OR IS OTHERWISE LIMITED, AS DETAILED IN THIS SECTION.

You understand and agree that the decision by Dwolla to take certain actions, including placing holds on or limiting access to Your User Account as detailed below, may be based on confidential criteria that are essential to risk management or security concerns. You understand and agree that neither Dwolla nor Veridian are under any obligation to disclose the details of its risk management or its security procedures to You.

- Place a Hold on Your User Account for Up to 90 days:
- Temporarily or Permanently Suspend or otherwise Limit Your Access to Your User Account:
- Contact Users who have purchased goods or services from You, contact Your bank or credit card issuer, and/or warn other Users, law enforcement, or impacted third parties of Your actions; or
- Take legal action against you

So I wonder what level of person-to-person transactions with Dwolla before they start freezing accounts.  How do we know which merchant accounts are "special" merchant accounts (and thus allowed) and which are not (and thus risks losing funds)?

Wow.

Thanks for the tl;dr. Glad to see MagicalTux has cut this off at the pass though.

So assuming I can no longer use Dwolla to transfer cash from Mt.Gox to my bank account, what are the best reputable options available?

Damn Dwolla to hell for biting the hand that fed them. How's the Tradehill lawsuit going?

That's pretty simple to check. If you have to be verified, need to have had an attached bank account for 30 days, and have your hub page on to send them funds, then the account is specially allowed by Dwolla to handle Bitcoin-related transactions.

This is just the legalese to back up that change they added a few weeks ago.

I imagine the lawsuit and all the trouble they got into with the fraud and reversals with TradeHill was a big factor in updating their TOS.

^^ this. anyone? I've only ever used MTGOX -> Dwolla -> Bank. i dont invest and use BTC as Misc extra income (movies/pizza/bills/ect).

Alright, so I just logged into my Dwolla account. It looks like I have to click "Accept"?

How can I continue using Dwolla (with mtgox) without my account being frozen?

Anyone planning for a goxUSD / Dwolla exchange?

Yeah, Gigavps had a thread going.

On a side note, I just emailed Dwolla asking them if it's ok for me to continue using MtGox/Bitcoin with Dwolla. Will post their reply when they do.

wow,wow,wow......

Crapachino.  I just $995 from MtGox to my Dwolla account on 5/15 and it's not showing up on Dwolla.  Oh someone's going to get an earful.

Oh so this is why my withdrawal didn't go through Monday.  I had to accept that TOS.  I saw some areas in it that were somewhat gray on blocking Bitcoin related transactions, but I thought "meh, it will probably still work".  Well, all I have done so far now is send a ticket to MtGox.  My money is in La La land right now, grrr.

I sent $1k from MT.GOX on the 8th and it hit Dwolla on the 14th because of the delay on MT.GOX side. Dwolla had it in my bank on the 15th. I don't know whats up with this new TOS but my funds made it out yesterday ok. I guess all us in th USA need to start looking again.

Mt. Gox has acknowledged that their delay in sending it to you through Dwolla is currently around six days.   Once it reaches Dwolla it is instantaneous.  You can place a request with Mt. Gox to cancel the withdrawal instead.

Thanks for the info, I only waited 3 days.  I was wondering if it would be around a week.  Sucks because this crypto currency is all about being instantaneous, no waiting for arcane banking delays because they only want to stay open 8 hours a day, and yet when you go to cash out from mining or trading you get stuck in this old world mess.

This is why I was asking about a Cash for BTC through the mail service...

So, I'm not seeing it still; Will my Dwolla account be FROZEN if I withdraw my cash balance from MTGOX?

Does bold make it easier or harder to read this? Ha.

Really though, I have been trying to cash out of BTC, but I don't want to freeze my funds. Because chances are slim that I will ever get them if the account is compromised... 

i don't think dwolla will prohibit the currency exchange or will ban users to send money between mtgox and dwolla. they are not stupid to stop a secure cash flow between bitcoin exchangers and them.

Do you know this though? I agree that is sounds like an idiotic move and they shouldn't, but any idea for sure?

The gov is very smart and since they are in a recession they are looking to save some dough.

Attack BTC not by technical means but by things like prohibiting Dwolla and Paxum transfers due to AML regulation.

AML there AML here and the money are laundered under their front door.  paypal is the biggest laundry machine i've ever seen and they are hand in hand with the gov so i guess the new policy is put there only to be seen, but who cares. i don't think dwolla will bother to stop the transfers between them and exchangers.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/04/wachovia-paid-trivial-fine-for-nearly-400-billion-of-drug-related-money-laundering.html (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/04/wachovia-paid-trivial-fine-for-nearly-400-billion-of-drug-related-money-laundering.html)

Wachovia was connected to almost 400 Billion in dirty money, even if every Bitcoin ever exchanged was dirty it wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket (ocean maybe).


-Jered

was going to withdraw with dwolla anyway, but this 'withdrawal center' thing has been pending verification of my dwolla account (I guess??) for the last 12 hours or so

Mt. Gox has been indicating that it is taking several days (up to 6) before they can send the Dwolla funds.  You can request from Mt. Gox that they cancel the transfer, however.

I couldn't initiate a transfer, since my Dwolla account was 'pending verification'.  Issue has nothing to do with the delay with the processing of Dwolla withdrawals.  No withdrawal took place.

ed:  It appears as if it has been "verified".  It is a bit bizarre that it lists the 'Dwolla' withdrawal method at the very bottom, below 'US Dollar (Dwolla)'.

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120418.html

lol

I started a withdrawal.

To add to the pain, now Dwolla users will need to become "verified" (photo ID) with Mt. Gox:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82328.0

This thread provides a temporary solution :) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78512.0

Thought I would revisit this thread to say that my withdrawal to Dwolla finally went through.  Requested Monday morning, took till Thursday night.  The support ticket I put in with Gox had comments on it that they are aware of the problems, but they linked me to some outdated information on the situation.  They did say they were working on it and they could tell me when Dwolla would accept the transfer as far as what they can see on their side.  Well, it finally went through at least.

dwolla always asked for the photo id verification and if you didn't hit the flag from dwolla this week you will hit it next week so either way they will ask you to provide the photo id.  mtgox i think its fair if you stay above the limits they will not ask for the photo ids but if you like to upgrade you might consider giving them the verification details.

I think you misunderstand.  Mt.Gox now requires verification to transfer any amount using Dwolla.

So now, all Dwolla is is another PayPal with a useless number system that is even less intuitive than PayPal's own email system. ("Hey guys, send me some money, my number is 123-456-789! No, you can't use my email address because the platform I am using is shit.")

Dwolla is a fucking embarrassment of a business. They come around touting their "no risk of chargeback" bullshit, thinking that they can build a foolproof, low fees network built completely on top of auto clearing house transfers with zero experience in the banking world aside from selling a few subwoofers on eBay. Unless you want to get fucked on a daily basis, you can't have instant transfers plus no chargebacks if your genius idea is to facilitate ach transfers between users. To think that dwolla is proud of the fact that they have no banking experience. Their brazenness screwed tradehill out of business. Since then, they have become nothing more than a VERY shitty clone of PayPal and moneybookers, with a laughably unsustainable business model. Every time they come out with a new post on their pitifully unprofessional blog, i want to vomit. They are fools--Ben Milne, Ashton Kuthcher, the lot of them. I will continue to use them until I get my okpay account set up, but I am awaiting the day when all of my funds in dwolla are permanently inaccessible.

edit: sorry, this is probably out of line.

That's the most epic article I've read in ages, thanks.

bob i don't think they want to copy the paypal platform and from my experience with dwolla i don't know how they upset you but the system itself to receive money using your bank account and pay someone using the dwolla platform its ok.

but many people like yourself are upset about the mtgox to dwolla or dwolla to mtgox transfers. i don't think dwolla close your account without notice or freeze your funds for 180 days.

so comparing to dwolla with paypal i think it's wrong in my opinion

They stole 5 figures from Tradehill's account and faked the logs/reports to make it look like the money had never been deposited.

They make Paypal look like the poster child for ethical behavior.

I stopped using dwolla and the exchanges months ago and have been doing all my purchases P2P, and I will never look back.

good points, i just felt like ranting after reading their new tos when i logged in. It's nice for paying rent or something i suppose, but that's really about it. The service has a couple of nice features that I would probably like to use, if I actually trusted the bastards. Maybe theyre not bastards, maybe they are. I lean towards "yes, bastards." They have become very similar to paypal; but you are right, they are not identical to them. It is frustrating to look back at when they strutted into the banking game claiming to revolutionize this and disrupt that, but really there is nothing special about them anymore. There has been so much backpedaling on dwollas's part, and they still think they are gamechangers... Also, I don't understand how ANYONE ANYWHERE would EVER trust someone with much money when they explicitly maintain the right to change their ToS without notice.

I suspect that f bitinstant starts fooling around with ach transfers--which I hope does not happen--they will likely run into some of the same problems.

there;s nothing more to cover bob, paypal recover every customer needs regarding moving money around and paying merchants, pay bills etc so the only thing dwolla will have to do now is to have a transparent service and easy to use. i moved around 53k last month with dwolla and all the transactions was 100% successful and painless. 

I can't tell that about paypal, i/ve call them so many times i can't remember regarding verifications and have one account blocked for 180 with 18k in it 

This.

I only use P2P now, was just ripped by a smaller exchange for 200 BTC so for the future will only use bitcoin-otc or people here

who is that small exchanger? please post it so everyone should avoid him

neato

Any other news so far? It's been kind of quiet in this thread. Anyone withdrew using DWOLLA recently? Anything unusual, other than 6 day wait?

still the same lag between mtgox to dwolla. i suggest you use a forum trader if you want to speed up the process

I just sent from MT.GOX to Dwolla.I'll update when it arrives.

But what service are you using for the other side of this transaction?

Any good news?

use this post to exchange dwolla to btc or mtgox usd

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78512.msg926196#new

I just got an email from the big D asking me to verify my identity. They want a picture of my ID.

The reason I'm hesitant to do this is because when they see I'm not 18 they might pull a PayPal and freeze ("limit") my account.

I skimmed their TOS and I see nothing regarding age, so I should be fine. I  just wanted to ask here in case anybody has already gone through this and wants to share some advice.

Thanks,
Garrett

I just got one as well. Fucking Dwolla. Just after a large p2p transfer, not even touching an exchange.

I didn't use an exchange either...

So what happens if we simply say "nope."?

I suspect that isn't an option once you have agreed to their new terms. I didn't get the new ToS agreement notice on login until just a few days before the account was suspended.

Per their User Conduct requirements, they can put a hold on your account for 90 days if you don't verify your identity in line with Veridian's requirements, so they'll probably do just that if you don't accept the new ToS.


Don't use MtGox then - they're ToS explicitly state that you must be 18 to have an account with them.

The thing is, I wasn't prompted to accept the new ToS until just before this thing went into lockdown mode. What a pain in the ass. Not even my damned BANK needs that info, an no I don't mean a brick-and-mortar bank, I mean an online one that I use for everything, including paycheck direct deposits.

Yeah, it seems like it's been pretty well publicised that the changes were coming and would be effective from the end of May but they didn't prompt people enough about ensuring they were in line with the new requirements on the date they took effect.

Banks certainly can require a shit-ton of verification information but they tend not to if their risk management protocols deem a given account to be "low risk" unless there are transaction which trigger a change of status.  The very nature of Dwolla likely means that a greater proportion of accounts and transactions are regarded as "high risk" and so Veridian's requirements in regard to high risk accounts are being applied.  It's worth remembering that Veridian is a credit union and one reason credit unions had less defaults during the economic meltdown was because they often had more stringent requirements for borrowing than many banks.

I was referring to Dwolla. Does Dwolla's TOS say this as well? I couldn't find it.

Age isn't mentioned in Dwolla's ToS.  I wonder whether it would accept a registration if the DOB revealed the applicant to be a minor.  Perhaps they think that the requirement for funds to originate at and be disbursed to US financial institutions makes it unnecessary for them to address the issue.

3 weeks ago i complete my verification with dwolla, they ask this info just like paypal, they want to verify the info credentials that you use to register with them, i think no harm there, paypal makes a worst scenario asking for bank statements etc. i think your dwolla account will be limited until they verify the documents that they request.

i don;'t think why all people blame dwolla since paypal fuck everybody with this kind of requests

I don't think PayPal has ever demanded that merchants require this from their customers, though :


If you're a Dwolla user sending money to a merchant's Dwolla account, you're required to do more than just verify your account with Dwolla.

yes they ask for this info but in another manner for example your ein or tin and regarding the verification problems check on google how paypal its far worst than dwolla.

Thanks to a post on Quora,
 -  - http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-paypal-and-dwolla/answer/Sam-Ohara/comment/993142

I've learned that Dwolla's terms of service have changed in another area as well, unfortunately:

- https://www.dwolla.com/tos

I hope I am understanding this correctly.

This means that, just like with MF Global, if the CEO orders your funds to be applied for use in whatever manner of his choosing, regardless of whether or not that action was legal, individual account holders have no guaranteed access to those funds.

This is unlike PayPal, which uses pooled accounts with FDIC pass-through protection (up to $100K USD per account):
 - https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fdic-outside

In other words, don't park your funds at Dwolla like you would at a bank.

I'm reading it as the funds not being individually covered by insurance because Dwolla users are not members of Veridian.  When you open a credit union account you're usually required to buy a token amount of shares to become a member - which makes your funds eligible for share insurance.  Even though Veridian is an investor in Dwolla, Dwolla users are not members of the credit union itself and it's therefore unlikely that their funds would be covered by share insurance.  Dwolla would be the "member" in this case and the funds in its Veridian account may or may not be eligible for insurance.

It looks like the maximum amount for which a member account at a given credit union is insured is $250,000.