Bitcoin Forum

financial markets all over the world are starting to crash after the unsustainable boom caused by money printing.
if this continues the printers will have to start working double shifts to prop the markets back up, destroying their paper currencies in the process.

i urge everyone to at the very least diversify part of their wealth away from papers and into bitcoin/gold before the panic and rush towards the exit starts.

You sir are a nutcase

printed fiat is only a fraction of fiat

it's all digital credits now, fake credits backed by nothing

long live btc

Money printing?

Bitcoin is more inflationary than fiat since its supply will grow (yearly) more than fiat for many years.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply


Your argument is invalid.



Also, if financial markets crash all over the world and panic ensues do you think people's first thought will be to put money in a currency that has lost more than 50% of its value in 2014?


Sorry but yours is currently wishful thinking.

Lots of people here still so afraid from being alienated that they don't speak their mind with their main account... Thanks to the Pillars Of The Community here.

Not necessarily... if the glass is empty and you fill it there is no problem.  If the glass is full and you pour in a half-glass of water... problem.

I think 'markets are crashing' is a bit of an exaggeration. The stock market (as defined by the DJIA) is down by >1% for the year which is hardly a crash.

It is also not declining because of inflation it is declining because of economic uncertainty in Europe. One could argue that the 'market' is concerned that not enough money will be printed

The glass is technically not half empty or full, because air fills it so the glass is really full.

Very slow growth in North America, almost no growth in Europe and East Asia is slowing down - that's why markets are declining.

Of course nobody wants to grow the economy in the west as it's not profitable enough.  It's more profitable to gamble on real estate and modern art then it is to create a new hyper modern manufacturing with a skilled workforce.  

the current system of money we have now is based on debt. in fact the whole world economy now runs on debt. debt is what keeps the economy growing, but this system is unsustainable and will sooner or later collapse under its own weight. Prices of goods, housing, food - the bare necessities - are rising because the value of fiat is getting smaller. That's inflation for you. The US debt can never be repaid - it will just continue growing bigger and bigger for as long as creditors let it be. When creditors put their foot down and say, "pay me now!" the US can only print more money to repay them, which in turn will flood the markets with even more money, driving the value of the dollar down and prices of things up even more. It's a never ending vicious cycle to an ever deepening bottom from which we can no longer get out of.

its declining because the fed is stopping qe and says its going to increase rates, everyone knows the markets can't stay at these levels if the fed stops printing money.
everyone are starting to dump stocks and sooner or later the fed will have to start an even bigger dose of qe printing which will send the usd into hyperinflation.
now is the time to dump fiat, before everyone else starts running towards the exit.

These arguments were thrown around after QE1 & 2 and the dollar is still around... The feds are not going to crash the system at least until this presidential cycle is over (2016-2017).

Lol,

http://s10.postimg.org/xou4auje1/Capture.jpg

Keep trolling :D

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.org%2Fgdze88mjz%2FUntitled.png&t=545&c=tx8SIEHHrDzeBQ

do as you wish, i did my best to warn you.
the market bubble is about to burst in full force, thats the final stage before the fed starts the mother of all QE which will send the usd into hyperinflation.

Lol, another brainiac beat you to it, with a slightly different twist:

Looking forward to seeing how bitcoin market does on a stock market crash.

The debt ceiling drama is coming this March, after they postponed it last year. So there should be some good ingredients for a nice panic stew.

Post count is no indicator of the value of an opinion.

If you really believe so then my opinion is two and a half times more valid than yours.

Lol, why wait?  Enjoy the hysteria in the Bitcoin market nao :)

I want to believe that money will flood into Bitcoin but I suspect it'll be a small bump from people who are already Bitcoin bulls.

People who haven't heard of Bitcoin nor understand it won't rush from what they believe to be a low-risk, low-volatility holding to a high risk, high volatility instrument.

From those charts it is fairly obvious that a dip is coming and a large one at that. I wouldn't really start worrying until the pullback dips below the long term upward trend(i.e. breaking the long upward trend ~1.2k or so). At that point I would say it is officially okay to don our tinfoil hats and scream about bitcoin in the streets.

Maybe if COIN gets approved, some people who would otherwise be exiting the market may use bitcoin as a hedge

when the prices in the grocery shop double every month there will not be much choice, its either the inconvenience of storing gold at home, or the convenience of remembering a 12 words electrum seed.

^
http://s4.postimg.org/5yg25yeyl/pozadi_0c_en.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZrpPpU1vtv4/TQL5nGgY6gI/AAAAAAAAANY/t9GhaD420R4/s1600/weimar2.jpg

it couldn't happen here right?

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE)

just keep on walking with the rest of the sheep to your financial slaughtering.

Robert Paulson, straying from the heard doesn't make you a lion.
You're still a sheep, albeit a maladjusted one.  With a substantially lower life expectancy :-\

There are a lot of pretty graphs on this thread but can anyone say if this bubble will crash in the next minute or the next decade?

it will crash before the end of 2015.
the fed actually believes it can stop QE this month and increase rates in the first half of 2015, otherwise there would be no taper to begin with.
the reason the markets are starting to meltdown is because no one wants to be left holding the bag on stocks when the rates go up, which is why everyone are starting to rush towards the exits right now in an attempt to be the first out.

you are dead wrong.
if you exit paper assets right now and buy into gold/bitcoin when all the other fools still believe the papers are going to make it you are the father of all lions.

No, post count doesn't indicate value but it does make one think that perhaps one just created a new account just to troll for fun. Experience, and how early you know about bitcoin and the foremost 'go to' bitcoin forum can show whether one should be taken seriously or one should be ignored for sake of trolling. A forumer with 1000 post count has been around far more than a forumer with 1 post count and that itself is already value in terms of commitment and contribution to the forum, whether right or wrong.

I trade Bitcoin, Robert.  I don't touch gold.
You are a wayward sheep, not a lion.  Now get back to the heard before you get run over by some passing 18-wheeler.
And thank your lucky stars that our Beneficent Reptilian Overlords like lamb chops :)

Bitcoin is not money nor a store of value.

Even if Bitcoin goes to $10'000, it will only ever be a means of making payment (in fiat currencies).

If the markets collapse then Bitcoin goes down with it. It's that simple.




Robert Paulson is indeed a fucking halfwit. Regurgitating the 'Crusoe' Austrian economics that many Bitcoiners inherited from the precious metals retail snake oil salesmen circa 2011.

However......I have a sneaky feeling about gold. I don't mean tomorrow, next week, or even next year. But going right out into the future, when the music stops once again on the global economy and the governments of the world are found to be insolvent as a result of the 'bail out bubble', then we might see a major shift in the global monetary reality back over to real tangible wealth.

Bitcoin is not tangible wealth. Bitcoin is less tangible wealth than any fiat currency which at least has the might of a sovereign power behind it.

Gold is tangible wealth. And there is probably a good reason why none of the world's central banks have the gold that they say they do.

I don't see how that would necessarily be the case. Care to expand?

Depending on the country you live in I would reconsider that. If not gold checkout silver, copper, or nearly anything that would have actual use in production. There are a lot of "what if" situations where all-in bag holding of bitcoin could seriously leave you in a bad spot but far fewer of those potential situations when talking about precious or industrial metals.

Please don't quote the trolls.

I trade Bitcoin, I don't hoard it.  Sure, gold has intrinsic value, but that's an insignificant fraction of its price.
I don't follow the gold market.  Just not my thing.

Wrong. Bitcoin is or can be money (it's fungible, transactable, and has a value). But to me Bitcoin is more an asset, a store of value, rather than a currency. Bitcoin is entire independent, if bitcoin were to be affected by external markets that's only because the people thought it to be. But by its very nature, Bitcoin is absolutely independent and decentralized.

Then you probably think that your CC is money too.

It could be money. But it isn't and it never will be.

If it is to succeed, it will be as a means of making money transfers or payments, but with the units of account that everyone is primarily concerned with being, Dollars, Euros, Pounds, Shekels, Yen, etc.

The most important ingredient behind any monetary standard is the authority that stands behind it and enforces it's use as money and that is because the #1 property of 'money', is that people have confidence in it. This even applies to the use of precious metals as money throughout history. Gold and silver coin also required some sovereign power somewhere, who was willing to recognise the metal tokens as being of value, or at least for a small fee, who was willing to the melt the metal coins and remint them into a form which was recognised as having value. This will never apply to Bitcoin.

What we might get is some kind of asset backed digital currency based around crypto technology, with all the pernicious aspect's of the Bitcoin block chain built into it. One wallet per global citizen. All economic transactions fully traceable.

I've noticed the markets falling over the end of the last week but didn't think much of it. If you're right, there should be a continual sell-off over the coming weeks.

This has already been done but.......



Here is your crashing market:

http://i61.tinypic.com/hs9ru1.png

The OP Robert Paulson is right.

The banking system has always been a ticking timebomb ever since 1970 when Nixon took the lid off that silly idea of "limited supply" in order to pay for the Vietnam war.

When people say that "Bitcoin is inflationary" I don't think they quite understand what they're talking about. Bitcoin's monetary base (as distinct from retail price inflation) currently inflates at around 10% per year, dropping to 3% in 2020 and less than 2% by 2025.

The beloved dollar, on the other hand, has gone from a monetary base of around $850 billion to $2800 billion in the space of 5 years. Thats more than a 300% expansion of the monetary base. If you don't think that is a recipe for some major economic upheaval in its own right then you don't understand money.

https://i.imgur.com/47KjN8g.jpg

The only reason this isn't causing rampant hyperinflation right now is that the world financial system has become so highly centralised over the last 30 years that central banks have managed to hang onto just enough control of markets to prevent the natural arithmetical devaluation of fiat currencies. This would have happened in any free market simply due to the numbers alone. Take a look at http://coinmarketcap.com for example and imagine if Peercoin's coin supply went from 21million to 80 million overnight. It would get dumped faster than a hot brick.

One of the ways the Fed has done this for example is to suck all the new money back onto their own balance sheet by offering a higher rate of interest on excess reserves. The other place all that new money has gone is into the stock market - chased in their by rock bottom interest rates which has turned cash deposits into a hot potato that nobody wants.

So, far from reflecting an underlying level of corporate growth, the stock market is now simply serving as a holding pen for all the excess cash from QE.

Add to that the fact that this new money has come at a huge price. Due to the nature of our fractional reserve lending system, it can only be created by creating an equivalent amount of debt.

The bottom line is this: The banking system (and several sovereigns) are loaded with so much debt that the major Western economies + Japan CANNOT AFFORD AT ANY COST TO ENTER INTO A DEFLATIONARY TREND. The reason they can't is because that would herald the onset of defaults caused by debt to GDP ratios going beyond manageable levels and markets sending bond yields sky high due to loss of confidence.

So the OP is well reasonable in suggesting that we're headed for major turmoil. There are simply too many stretched central banking "tricks" that are now reaching the end of the line.

Another way to look at it is this: Regarding the 2008 banking crisis - it was never solved. The debt did not get extinguished, it just got hung on a different coat hook. There are 3 coat hooks:

[1] - private sector over leverage (where it all started)
[2] - sovereign balance sheets (i.e. taxpayers on hook)
[3] - central bank monetisation (Weimar wheelbarrow land)

In Japan and the US, we've reached stage 3 who's effects are currently being mitigated by attempts to stop markets from appropriately revaluing currencies according to today's money supply (an outcome which will not last). In Europe and the UK, we're at stage 2 about to go to stage 3.

The current stock market dip is being caused by 2 things:

[1] - the "threat" of QE wind down (the pump that blows up the Stock Market balloon)
[2] - Draghi's press conference 2 weeks ago which basically amounted to the ECB announcing that they were throwing in the towel on European growth.

That Draghi press conference represented the end of a 2 year phase of optimism kicked off by his 2012 "ECB will do everything it needs to to save the Euro" speech which saved the Mediterranean bond yields from blowing the eurozone apart. The compromise was that Eurozone growth would rescue the situation once it appeared over the next 2 years.

Well, it hasn't appeared.

In fact, European deflation is now on the cards due to lack of transmission of ECB monetary policy into the commercial banking sector so this sets a whole knew scene and Draghi's 2012 bluff has been called - successfully it turns out because he's now stepped back from the precipice of full Eurozone QE and gone for a limp program of "Covered Bond Buying" (under massive pressure from Germany I'm sure who happen to be owed a tidy half trillion Euros by the rest of the Eurozone due to Target2 imbalances plus they're not too fond of wheelbarrow-based economic policies).

The numbers involved in all of this are colossal. I don't know if people quite realise it - never mind the derivatives exposure that's all stacked on top of it.

Contrary to the nonsense being posted challenging the OP, things definitely are lining up for a perfect storm - either in the next few months or couple of years. Who knows how long they can keep the plates spinning, but at some point one of them is going to be dropped and there aint no soft landing available on this side of the financial horizon.

Here you go folks - the relevant statement starts at 0:53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRzr1QU6K1o

Without that statement, the Fed wouldn't have been able to send that graph sky high like it's done. (Think multiplying Peercoin's coin supply x 4 overnight and getting away with retaining its price - thereby multiplying its marketcap FOURFOLD on coinmarketcap.com at the roll of the printer).

The one and only lion is Janet Yellen.
All others, and we all, are sheeps.

Interesting approach.

But what if just one country accepts taxes in its own currency and also in Bitcoin? What would the other countries do?

if you only trade bitcoin instead of saving it and you don't touch gold then i am afraid you will be left with nothing in the coming years.
i understand you, it is very difficult to say the emperor has no clothes no matter how good the evidence is, humans are programmed to go with the herd, if it wasn't so we wouldn't be in this dire situation in the first place.
i only hope you are young enough to start over when this is all over.

What would make a country intentionally dilute its own currency?

bitcoin is the ultimate form of money because it has all the monetary properties of gold but its easier to secure and transport.
bitcoin has no use except as a monetary system and yet the free market chose to value each bitcoin 360 times more than each USD, and thats without anyone forcing people to accept it at the point of a gun.

Financial markets are starting to crash?? -But commodities are, too. It's like we have spiraling (and unmeasured) deflation right now. Have you been to the gas pump, lately? While gas prices continue downward, practically every other good will follow suit after some lag. It's time to buy all the things on near-0% interest loans!

thats exactly why there is about to be another round of QE of unseen scale.
all western governments are deep in debt, they absolutely can not afford to have deflation, they will drop sacks full of cash from airplanes if they have to.

Sure Robert, even a cat can look at a king. And I certainly don't mind if you do, but do know your place--you're in no position to judge one.

It does make me wonder where the Hell the money's gone. Who's been stuffing the trillions under their mattress? Is it an effect of traders/banks seeing a coming deflation crisis and making a self-fulfilling prophecy or outright market manipulation? I mean, banks which decide outright to stop lending, instead hording cash, and maybe convert to an insurance company -- seems like they'd be all set to come out of a deflationary crisis as the world's overlord.

ETA: -Or just a weak economy, I guess. Low money velocity in bad market.

Price is going to bounce up 50-100 very soon guys. I think the time is now to go all in. Don't sleep on it.

What ivory tower nonsense.

Markets can crash a currency in a day's sentiment change regardless of what "authority stands behind it". What about interest rate wars ? What about overlevered sovereigns ? What about toxic derivative mountains ? A single trader & his army managed to dump one of the world's oldest and most stable currencies - Sterling - to such an extent it had to exit the Eurozone.

To a forex market, a currency is just another tradeable commodity. They're not sitting there thinking "hey - this is guvpaper, I'm not dumpin this for anythin".

Toknormal,

I fully agree with your analysis.

All hyperinflations (Weimar, Zimbabwe, etc) had other countries' currencies in competence, and in those cases people run towards them.
But the dollar, without any competence, could hold on for 40 more years. The pound, the euro, etc, all them are tightly glued to the dollar. All world fiat currencies go together.

The black swan for hyperinflation in fiat currencies could be gold, silver or Bitcoin.
Through short selling futures of paper gold (and silver), the FED controls the market price. And that's what they will do to Bitcoin.

So dollar hyperinflation is not happening because there is no competence.
Could Bitcoin be the black swan for the fiat currencies? May be...

What about the BRICS gold-backed bank ?

What about all the gold that China has been hoovering up for the last 3 years. They're clearly going to use it to offset their losses when they start dumping US treasuries.

I don't think that central banks have as much control over events as people think they have. If you don't control EVERYTHING then you control nothing. All it takes is a hairline crack. Manipulating commodity paper markets is a very superficial tool - it doesn't run very deep and only works as long as there's no panic.

The 2008 crisis changed the entire landscape because people suddenly realised that money can "disappear". There is less and less room for central control to work because they cannot afford the slightest failure in confidence otherwise an unstoppable run will commence.

A BRIC's gold based bank would be a black swan.

That's what Gaddafi tried to do, and we all know how they ended him...

Sounds like a lot of downward pressure on gold, too, then, which's already dropped like a stone this year, if banks hold commodities and have to sell them to keep solvent. Doesn't this mitigate inflationary pressure from a weakening USD? I mean - if everything equally collapses, the USD isn't any weaker at the end, relative to any other currency/commodity. I'm assuming banks aren't keeping BTC reserves, though, so...

+1. Absolutely spot on - particularly the bit about bitcoin having "no use except as a monetary system". That's what makes is valuable as a monetary medium.

Fiat: highly levered debt money
Crypto: unlevered base money

Crypto to Fiat: Hot lava to candle wax.

The two cannot be allowed to come into contact with each other otherwise one will simply "melt" into the other. (I'll leave you work out which one will be doing the "melting"). That's why there's almost no Fiat-Crypto exchanges in existence anywhere in the world having significant liquidity.

What kind of power does a world monopoly issuing entity (banks and central banks, altogether) have?
Absolute power.

4-hour BTC-USD chart about to complete a 36 hour correction. Going up tomorrow I think.

the money is going to the banks.
when people don't borrow fast enough debt starts to outgrow the money supply to the point where people don't have money to buy anything because it all goes to service the debt.

Just to clarify what he's saying here, in the fractional reserve system, money can only be borrowed into existence. There are conceptually two concentric "layers" to that borrowing:

[1] - central bank issues currency backed by the sovereign (thereby creating sovereign debt)
[2] - commercial banks purchase that currency and MULTIPLY it's quantity by whatever the inverse of the capital reserve ratio is, BUT: they have to find private borrowers to underwrite the new money. If they can't, then no new money is created in the commercial banking sector so the economy DEFLATES, because other commercial debt is being paid off which extinguishes the "money" that debt underwrote.

If the economy deflates while the sovereign debt increases then you get an increasing debt to GDP ratio which is what central banks are tasked with avoiding (e.g. by having policy targets if 2% inflation).

Traders appear to also have detected the 4 hour chart imminent crossover.

The buying has commenced on Bitstamp + BTCe.

Yep.

But 3-day chart is still scaring...

I read somewhere that process is inverse:
[1] - commercial bank finds people that want to borrow. Then the bank creates the borrowed money out of nothing, just typing an accounting entry in its book. Then, the bank has to find a 1% of that borrowed money anywhere (deposits, i.e.)
[2] - the central bank simply saves commercial banks asses by printing all necessary notes to prevent bank runs.

That's all.

Avoiding high inflation, monitoring GPD growth and all the wordiness on CB's (QE, LTRO, TLTRO, etc) are BS to avoid people understanding what do they really do.

 :D :D :D :D :D

so wrong, on so many levels.

stick to trading Mat

Once printed currency is prohibited, banks will have absolute power. There will be no risk of bank runs, because no one will be allowed to change it's digital fiat account by anything (gold, silver or notes).
That's why Bitcoin could be the Black Swan for banks.

That's why Bitcoin could be is the Black Swan for banks.

FIFY

not only for the banks but also for the government.
in a bitcoin universe the government can't use the inflation tax, it actually has to ask for money from the people.
imagine the government had to ask the population to pay 1 trillion dollars for the iraq war, thats 3135$ per person.
who would send that money to the government?

since banks were invented and since those banks (private or state owned) started to print paper money in renaissance italy, people always feared that those institutions may not really own enough physical gold or silver to back it. they feared that there was not enough gold present.
we have a slightly different problem: it is not a question of enough metal - there isn't even ENOUGH PAPER money printed to back all the money they have created on their balance sheets ...

 ;D

Wrong Matt. It is functioning as money right now. Head over to an exchange or buy something off scan computers.

I have to be honest your post is something I would not have expected to read from you. Confidence in money we use today (fiat) backed by nothing more than the state is a temporary aberration. It is only since 1971 that people have accepted money not backed by an asset which was scarce and therefore valuable (gold).

Bitcoin has risen up from nothing and has value not because it is backed by the US military, used to buy oil, or because it is used to pay taxes, but because it is given value by the people, not under coercion but free will. And why does it retain this growing value? Because people value the properties associated with it compared with standard fiat or credit money. It is a superior money, global, frictionless with gold like commodity properties.

You really have lost the vision..

Those that works in army industry.

fine, let them have the bill then

how about rescuing the banks, sounds like fun?
that'll be 7.77 trillion usd, about 20,000$ per person, im sure everyone would like to pay that to save the failed banksters.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html)

"It dwarfed the Treasury Department’s better-known $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Add up guarantees and lending limits, and the Fed had committed $7.77 trillion as of March 2009 to rescuing the financial system, more than half the value of everything produced in the U.S. that year."

And how is that relevant?

nobody really knows but afaik total world money supply is around 60 - 100 000 000 000 000 dollars

or 10 cents per satoshi in existence

a huge bubble huh?

check the VIX volatility index, currently 20, was 80-90 in 2008, this can get ugly

In case of fiat failing, food is a better hedge than Bitcoin.

I agree, they could even solve two problems if greenbacks were made of broccoli instead of paper.

+1

GOverments are just prolonging and holding off the inevitable collapse of the debt-based banking system. The elites running the banks and governments know about this and they have pulled their money out of fiat and into gold, commodities, land ie real assets but they needed the people to continuing believing in the system, giving out 0% interest loans, telling them to spend, buy bonds, securities etc. They just cannot afford to let the people realize that the whole debt-based banking system is actually the biggest scam in all of history.

Your chart is old. It's gotten much worse..

https://i.imgur.com/l5D7uA2.png

There won't be hyperinflation so long as velocity of money stays at these lows:

https://i.imgur.com/w9I3jkR.jpg

Doesn't look too bad :P  :D

HEY WAIT THIS IS WHEN BUSH BECAME PRESIDENT !!!!

Yeah, they are crossing their fingers.

or just buy shares from print manufacturer companies.

It is all about to find the right bets, like in crypto too

r.o.t.f.w.l. !!

You think real life works like in school books ?


[1] - buy 10 Oz gold from the gold market which has, say, 100 Oz cap

[2] - create a gold ETF

[3] - generate 100 1 Oz contracts for each 1 Oz of physical in your vaults

[4] - make sure nobody ever audits your vaults (especially not the Germans). If they ask, just let them see 1 room containing a 1% sample of their holdings

[5] - start printing huge quantities of the currency of your choice

[6] - simultaneously flood the commodities markets with naked gold shorts (of which you posses a similarly limitless supply) to keep traders in their currency long positions

Simple !

(...Until your bluff is called by somebody that happens to have 100 times the amount of physical that you do. Somebody, for example, who has spent the last 5 years hoovering up every ton of gold on the planet they can get their hands on).

"Growing your own food is like printing your own money" ~ Ron Finley

That's a serious case of demurrage.

You can thank Gavin for this: he started the trend by mobbing Luke-Jr.

Equity markets are suffering a 10% correction. I doubt this is the "big correction" many foresee. However, bitcoin is enjoying a nice bounce along with gold which is not a coincidence. It is ironic that someday Main Street will consider investment in bitcoin a "flight to safety."

the stock market collapse continues, it looks like the huge pile of malinvestments fueled by cheap purchasing power stolen from the population is crumbling apart.
i have predicted this 6 months ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=356923.msg6362392#msg6362392 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=356923.msg6362392#msg6362392).
this is one step before the final destruction of fiat, when the markets will plunge around 50% from the top central bankers will unleash either negative interest rates and/or huge amounts of QE.
this will create huge inflation causing commodities to shoot up in price and wiping out the purchasing power of anyone holding government bonds and/or cash.

abandon the fiat titanic and grab a seat on the bitcoin/gold life boat.

I'm ready, Satoshi!

http://theonlinedisciple.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/jesus-second-coming-05.jpg

Haha

https://i.imgur.com/sGCuytS.png

Trump ya!

Food... one should always "invest" in food.

You win.

there will be plenty of food, you just won't be able to buy it with fiat paper.
the food company isn't going anywhere.

totally not a cult.

I hope the stock market crashes... For the lulz

The aftermath won't be funny, even if you're not directly exposed.

So hands up all those that predicted a rise in Bitcoin price when/if the markets started to fall?

I would predict this, but it frequently follows the stock market. I can't think of any reason why? It makes more sense to run counter to the market, like gold. Whats with that?

No one said it would be pretty, and it's not a matter of if - but when.
Bring the reset on. 

We can fester and mire around, dragging it out some more, or reboot and start rebuilding.
The sooner the better, IMO.

You realize that folks like you will prob'ly be the first to go, right?
"Gentlemen, I'll reward you handsomely with my bitcoin in exchange for your scrumptious can of spam.  Let us retire to some quaint bistro with public wifi, and indulge in decaf soy frappuccinos while we wait an hour for the six confirms."

https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net/_uploads/galleries/22074/road-warrior-2.jpg

there is no need for any confirmations for a can of spam, the transaction value is low enough, if you double spend you won't be buying from him again.

The gentleman riding bitch doesn't trust you :-\

if im paying double he'll trust me.

^No, Robert.
If he has seen any value in what you had, he would dismount that ghastly motor scooter, and proceed to purposefully and repeatedly place his foot into positive and constructive contact with your face, until such negotiations netted him a more favorable deal.

The fall hasn't even begun yet genius. DJIA below 15K.....no support until 12.5K and it WILL retest. PPT is running out of ammo.

What u are doing is calling game set match in the 1st quarter. Sit your ass down and enjoy whats coming. When it gets here, then you can ask your question again.

It makes sense to follow risk trends. Bitcoin is a risky asset, like emerging market stocks but even worse. When there's a flight to safety in full risk aversion -we're on the verge of that right now- all the risky crap gets dumped and people buy treasury bonds, gold and so on. In a risk-off environment, there is no way some speculation-fueled asset like Bitcoin would thrive. Unless there's the rare circumstance in which you need bitcoin to circumvent capital controls (remember Cyprus?), so don't expect bitcoin to rally wildly unless (until?) there's mass defaults and bail-ins.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-16/pompous-prognostications-permanently-high-plateau-prophets (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-16/pompous-prognostications-permanently-high-plateau-prophets)

I sure hope its different this time...

They'll say "no one could have predicted it" too, like they did after 2008. It's all bullshit and propaganda. I don't know how bad it will get but what I do know is we won't get the facts on the news. Just like it happened in 1929 and in every other market crash: they'll all deny the facts for quite a while. Kicking the can down the road after 2008 was incredibly risky and foolish and soon it will be the time to face the consequences of multiple rounds of QE and other financial trickery that in trying to postpone the inevitable, will make it worse.

With the world facing a deflationary trap, mass defaults might be exactly what's on the cards. The liquidity that's needed to cover the expansion of balance sheets simply from debt servicing alone is shrinking.

To me, it's not about risk on / risk off theory, it's more about the inherent stability characteristics of the financial system and, in particular, Debt/GDP ratios. At manageable Debt/GDP ratios, recessions are survivable and do not threaten stability because there is liquidity available to service all debt - even if the recessions last years.

On the other hand, once debt levels pass 100% GDP and even 200% in some cases, growth becomes an essential prerequisite for the system to remain stable. You can get growth in 3 ways:

[1] - "real" growth through increased economic activity (usually manifests as an increase in the velocity of money because the money base gets "spent" more often

[2] - increasing prices (The UK's doing that one by creating a housing boom and have managed to scrape themselves 0.7% of their 1% annual GDP growth from that)

[3] - monetisation. i.e. just print the fuckers to make the numbers work = Japan & US

The problem with 2 and 3 is that you kill the patient in the process so you have to stop it at some point in which case - if you haven't got [1] going by then - the only way out is mass defaults or debt mark downs. That will then spark some major banking issues by way of all kinds of carry trades unwinding etc

So all in all, anything can happen. The main reason I see cryptos as "safe haven" is:

[1] - they are unlevered
[2] - they are uncapitalised

Remember - "safe haven" and "risk assets" are relative terms. Cryptos will not be seen as risk assets if the financial system itself is perceived to be at risk and with imminent worldwide deflation on the cards, that might not be far away.

Look at the growth figures for Europe - they are piddling. And I'm sure even those are massaged to death just to squeeze a meagre 1% out of the books. None of these things in their own right would be a problem - low growth, high debt, 400% over-inflated money supplies, interest rates on the floor. It's WHEN THEY ALL HAPPEN TOGETHER that alarm bells start ringing.

Just one thing about treasury bonds.

People buy treasury bonds because they're **perceived** to be safe. But that perception can be extremely volatile and is basically the whole reason we're in this position. All the over leverage and monetisation that's gone on in the last 5 years has been ALL about preventing treasuries from defaulting.

Treasuries WERE the safest asset until the bailouts - starting with the famous Bush $700 Billion shot in the arm. But AFTER the bailouts they were no longer the safest asset - they were risky as hell because all that over levered debt that grew up in the private sector suddenly got lifted and pinned onto the coat hangers of sovereign balance sheets.

Since then, governments in collusion with central banks have managed to maintain the ILLUSION of treasuries being safe havens because they've kept a $3.2 TRILLION dollar firehose pointed at the treasury markets to keep the yields down. Without that firehose they would have defaulted years ago.

The problem is that this game is coming to an end. The canary in the coalmine is Greece, who's yields took off the minute there was the slightest hint of global instability and prospect of euro deflation. What many US observers maybe aren't aware of is that Mario Draghi held a press conference a couple of weeks ago where he stepped back from declaring a policy of full Euro QE. That was one of the triggers for the start of the sell off in Euro stocks - the other being the ongoing deflationary signals coming out of the woodwork from here, there and everywhere.

So the idea that treasury bonds will be seen as a "safe haven" is not so solid in the absence of QE. Everything is starting to be up for grabs.

Agreed. Now that I read this.. we've seen this coming for a long time so it doesn't sound so scary anymore, but it should. We should be scared of what's coming.

Btw EU treasuries are also a complete charade, only the ECB is buying with its (lesser) firehoses. Italian and Spanish yields are a complete joke that don't reflect the real risk. And just recently French politicians have been resisting cutting back its lavish spending (do they think there's no limit to what they can take? do they think they won't get crushed when they hit the brick wall?). Greece is done anyway, has been for years, keeping it in the EU is part of the charade. Unfortunately the charade is quite costly and we're all going to pay for it.

Looks to be a full scale correction, how deep is anyone guess.. just need a catalyst for a crash... but looks like the 5 yr cycle is up and we head down to test support... I think before the final big crash a few years later.. and then we stick around without growth for a bout a decade.

=D

belgium already takes taxes in btc soooo....youre dumb.

I would think a week of market falls would cause some kind of rise (even if minimal) in Bitcoin but it seems that this isn't the case. It looks as if Bitcoin follows the market - maybe it's all going to the gold market?

I think you're only reading what you want to see... and perhaps you have anger issues?

This is what I think I'm seeing right now (happy to see evidence to the contrary) although I'd disagree that there was a lot of capital flowing into Bitcoin from Cypriots. Is there a source for this?

To call it a 'correction' is putting it mildly.  Market's getting unstable and those in power are just trying to prop it back up, but for how long.  Observe the rich, they are already pulling money out of fiat and putting into assets. Either a major hyperinflationary depression, or a total collapse of the system, is looming.  It's just a matter of time when main street start to realize it's just as practical and more convenient to put money into bitcoin that can hold its value just as good if not better than other assets.

Hey, clueless - you have no idea who you are talking to.
https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57claccdp1qz7mamo2_500.gif

You have stupid issues.

You're looking for the action before the cause and perhaps expect a hug?

Cyprus is the go-to offshore banking jurisdiction for Russian dirty money. Cypriots are not behind all of the money that was deposited in Cyprus.  Evidence is circumstantial but I'd say fear made some people invest in bitcoin after capital controls and confiscation were enforced in Cyprus. Just recently we've seen Russia ban bitcoin, and we know the chinese have been using it to get money out of the country.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-03-18/behind-the-cyprus-tax-russian-deposits-and-a-suspicious-eu
http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/28/investing/bitcoin-cyprus/
http://blogs.wsj.com/eurocrisis/2013/03/21/how-much-russian-money-is-in-cyprus/

While he isn't going to build any massively successful business making this kind of statements -not that he intends to-, Amir Taaki got it right when he said what Bitcoin is:
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112183/bitcoins-political-neutrality-is-a-myth-amir-taaki-interview
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/17005/bitcoin-technology-worth-nothing-interview-dark-wallet-front-man-amir-taaki/

Bitcoin's utility is in its potential for preserving privacy, anonymity and independence from states or other third parties. Bitcoin (the currency) thrives in a risk-on environment because it is a risky asset fueled by speculation. But, it also thrives in an environment of authoritarianism or during times of extreme fear because it is immune to confiscation by states.

Haithere little boy, does your mom know you're on the internet?

http://std3.ru/bb/6d/1369413208-bb6d11848202fe130eaf354b26718284.jpeg

*Yes, yes I do know exactly who I'm talking to.

Nvm him just a troll going around fudding to bring price down so he could buy. He must have sold or missed the bus and wants to go cheap as possible by capturing the short term thinking audience and instilling fear by showing that in reality bitcoin is not usable mainstream.

However he does not understand technology and its ability to evolve and adapt unlike his fud attempts so just ignore him her. Smart ppl see thru these mosquitos they are a dime a dozen.

Lol, such butthurt.  You know that Russia is planning to criminalize Bitcoin, right?  You could be on the wrong bus :)

http://s24.postimg.org/ked28qg9h/Capture.jpg

In the mean time, keep on buying, intrepid investor!  If it wasn't for finance enthusiasts like yourself, who would be left to buy my coin?

i dont think you have very many coins.. just like china banning cowboy?

With the gold repricing russia doesnt want anything to reflect the plan back on them thus they wanna make sure they get all they can for their gold.. makes sense for them kniwing us has tons of coins from dpr already

^wut?  Do you even English, bro?

http://s8.postimg.org/4py32lnud/obama.gif

Thats it hey? Knew you couldnt keep up.. truck along

Look, I'm only trying to help.  Wouldn't you be more comfortable posting in your native tongue?
Or playing some vidya?