Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin has always been exciting to me for the crowdfunding opportunities it enables.  With all the talk about seasteading and charter cities around here over the last year, I ran across this interesting opportunity, and decided to throw together a little project to see if the Bitcoin community is interested in taking a small step in that direction.

http://bitcoinisland.org (http://bitcoinisland.org)

http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp9;3%3Enu=3243%3E445%3E:82%3EWSNRCG=32%3C3:3%3C2;7338nu0mrj


This property is currently bidding at around $125,000 with less than a week to go.  So I think 40,000 BTC is a reasonable goal.  If most Bitcoin users contribute, that's just a few Bitcoins per person.  And we get an island!  I can't say whether this will be possible or worthwhile, but it's worth a shot.  If we can get close, I have an investor who may be able to put us over the top.


FAQ:

Is the island in international waters?
 Unfortunately, no.

Where is it located?
 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11.802401%2C-83.661222 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11.802401%2C-83.661222)

What plans do you have for development?
 No specific plans.  Perhaps a block of condos, or a self-sufficient eco-resort?  Maybe something more unorthodox, like a test facility for seastead development.
 The island will go wherever the market takes it.

What does this have to do with Bitcoin?
 Bitcoin will be used on the island, the property will be rented for Bitcoins, and the island will help to further Bitcoin economic development.

Where can I contribute?
 1SLAND4JQt2mhypA6cR7TSh2UunW4NU4y

What reason do we have to believe that you won't take the Bitcoins and run?
 I would need an island to run to before doing that.

FAQ Update 1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82060.msg904544#msg904544)
FAQ Update 2 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82060.msg911455#msg911455)

Wouldn't you have to be a Nicaraguan citizen to buy that?  Are you prepared to live in Nicaragua?  There's good cigar tobacco down there, that's all I know haha.

Words cannot describe how awesome this would be. No idea how it is practical or useful. But awesome, nonetheless.

Though, the google map link is pointing to the middle of the carribean...?

It puts an "A" marker in the middle of the ocean, the green arrow is what you wanna zoom in on.

http://www.zimbio.com/Belize/articles/maC-c-o6X8d/5101+00+Private+5+Acre+Caribbean+Tropical

And how would that work exactly? You know.. internet? Im guessing the nearest cell tower is a bit far.

If it isn't in international waters beyond the authority of an existing government, it serves no purpose in seasteading whatever.  Nice thought though.

I thought the same thing.  No Internet at all there = bummer.  Would have to somehow do a bi-directional sattelite setup and those SUCK.

Internet access for a large group of users is relatively easy anywhere on earth except the poles, and even that isn't insurmoutable.  Still won't be as cheap as a mid-city broadband account, but the data for a minor bitcoin node shared by the group isn't an overwhelming burden.

Telestar-14 can hit it.

http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/images/t14_nam.gif

http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/t14_nam.html

PEW PEW.  Bitcoins from SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine?  ;D

I would love for this community to crowd source something like this.  

If we had a clear business plan then I don't see why it isn't possible  8)

I have considered something like this for a long time.

Crowd funding something.

The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.

Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.

The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.

Simple solution just make it an n of m multi-sig address.  Set n to be something reasonable which still makes members feel safe like say 80%.

This.
I'd throw a 10BTC your way just because I'd love to see something like this happen, but I don't think the community is likely to pitch in $200k on your word that you're using the money for an island...

Yes, I thought of that. But the 20% that do not agree would be forced to have their money spent on something they do not want. I suppose it could work if you set up a way to send the money back to those who do not want what the final decision is. Perhaps the 80% threshold gets hit and then the BTC gets transferred toward the purchase and the other 20% goes to those addresses that did not agree on the final decision.

Very easy to do that and do it completely anonymously but it does require a little trust that the refund will be honored.
1) Setup an multi-sig address for the initial contributors (lets say there are 20 of them)
2) Everyone must contribute from an address which can receive payments back (i.e. no ewallets other than ones like StrongCoin).
3) So all 20 initial contributors have paid into the multi-sig address (16 are required to sign a tx).

Now if new contributors come along you simply create a new multi-sig address (i.e. 18 of 22) have the new contributors make their pledge deposit, and have current contributors sign a tx to forward funds to the new address.   

When a potential purchase is found call a vote.  Vote can be verified by having members sign their vote w/ private key of their deposit address.

The options are:
Vote Yes
Vote No (refund if vote passes)
Vote No (contribute anyways if vote passes)

If the vote fails to gain 80% approval then nothing happens.
If the vote does gain 80% approval then create a multi-sig tx paying from all the addresses which agree and refunding all the addresses which don't.  All members can verify the tx and sign it.  Once it has 80% of signatures the tx is valid and funds will be dispersed.

The trust comes with the last step.  Members "could" once they have 80% of signatures forward all funds (even of those who object) and refund nothing.  Since they have 80% of the keys the minority can't prevent that.  I don't believe multi-sig can remove that element of trust.

This would be the perfect way to implement something like this, but I think there won't be time to handle this particular case in this way.

Coming back to the island, the whole idea sounds really grandiloquent (maybe too much?), would be wonderful but may be easily the riskier thing I read on this forum (and this is something to say). It would be really nice to have a more detailed, better thought plan...

Be careful, there doesn't appear to be a beach on this island. Seems like that would be a critical feature.

Since the island wouldn't be separable from the rules and regulations of Nicaragua anyway, it would be much more useful to just buy a resort already on the mainland beach someplace tropical. Internet would be easier, supplies would be easier, and arriving vacationers would have an easier time getting there. You could still allow people to pay for everything there in bitcoins.

FAQ Update:


"Current owners are American and have owned the island for 6 years.  There are no restrictions for foreigners in owning the island, and the Nicaraguan Government fully recognizes foreign ownership."

And, yes, I'm willing to relocate in order to oversee development.


The nearest city of Bluefields (15 miles away) has a fiber link.  I'm sure wireless can be arranged.


Yes, there is a reserve.  I have a guess as to what it is.  And I think a target of 40,000 BTC will get us close enough.  No guarantees on this obviously, since we can always be outbid.


This is the reason I've chosen a market-based approach to development rather than a corporate model.  With Bitcoin, I'm sure the community can find a way to make the best use of the available resources.


The plan is to buy the island, rent out the current facilities for Bitcoins, and go from there.  If that means attracting a developer to break ground on a skyscraper, great.  If it means building a small fishing village and exporting lobster and coconuts, that's fine too.  I think there is lots of potential either way.

Personally, I'm open to just about anything as long as a reasonable balance between development and the natural surroundings can be maintained.  I foresee a development process that is open, transparent and inclusive of the entire Bitcoin community, but aimed toward the economic needs of the market and neither democratic nor directed.

I know that's not very detailed, but that's intentional.  I see many different ways this could end up being a boon to the Bitcoin community.  Which way it goes has more to do with you than with me.  Pitch in a few Bitcoins and we'll find out together.


Most beaches dredge or import sand anyways.  That's not a big issue.

Voltron assemble!

That's all?

We are just "contributors" eligibles for a "proportional discount"?

No shared ownership? No partnership? Not even some participation on future income?

Or to put it simple. No compensation for the risk taken?


Why charging a fee to refund?

This is bitcoin, you can send them almost for free. Ok, you're building a project and you can charge administrative fees, but if you don't win the auction, the fee seems huge for so little work...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11.802401,-83.661222&ll=11.802383,-83.66076&spn=0.004553,0.008942&t=h&z=18

I know the fee seems excessive, but it's based on a cursory estimate of worst-case transaction fees.  Since I would have to refund on a per-address basis, it could end up being a lot of transactions.  Perhaps it could be less, something like 0.2% instead.  I haven't had a chance to make a more realistic estimate.


Yep.  I'm not too thrilled about dealing with shareholders, and I'm certainly not interested in dealing with regulators.  I can justify donations towards a common goal.  I'm not sure I can justify anything like GLBSE or the legal complications of shared ownership.  And I see no point in tracking profits and issuing dividends on a bunch of 5 BTC "investments".  If there are huge profits, those who contribute will be adequately compensated.  If not, oh well.  Don't send your life savings.

Besides, the point isn't for a dozen people to buy an island as an investment.  The point is for the entire Bitcoin community to buy an island because it's awesome.

..and island that no one will own and everyone will be fighting for creative control over.

If I participated in this, I'd want to be able to move there and put up a house of my own. Will that be allowed? What if my house takes up more space than the relevant percentage of investment? Are there any rules, laws, ordinances, codes etc I need to abide by? If so, who is responsible for enforcing them? What happens if I ignore them? Who will reprimand me and through what means? Can my shares ever be taken away from me? Can I ever be banned from the island? Can I visit it anytime I want? What if I have a giant party there and never clean up the mess? Will someone try to take away my shares by force?


 ::)


EDIT: It seems like we'd all be helping you buy an island and that'd be the end of it.

Never heard of paymany?  Tx fee likely would be 0 or at worst 0.005 BTC per kb.

@OP: I'm not expert on trusts, timeshares or real estate, but why not try something like this:

• Set the purchase price to something a bit more reasonable that includes potential upkeep fees ($500,000). You won't win that island for $125,000. It's not going to happen.
• Divide that $500k into 52 shares.
• Put all shareholders on a Board of Directors and hold a vote for new Chairman of the Board of Directors every year.
• All upkeep, taxes, maintenance, etc will be decided by the Board through voting. If someone trashed the place, they pay for it. Otherwise, everyone splits the fees.
• The Board of Directors (up to 52 people) will organize, agree on, and schedule 1 week of living time at the island for each member of the board, unless some members can agree to share time in which case they get more time together (3 members who want to share can have it for 3 weeks).

What if someone wants to live there forever?

• If the Board of Directors agrees by a vote of 75%, convert the timeshare system to a property ownership system and divide the land into 52 sections with landshare owners nearest the water receiving a larger grid space.

So, the reason I mentioned "a dozen people" and seasteading and skyscrapers earlier was exactly this.  I'd guess that most people would want that as well.  And a dozen people could do this on a 5 acre island.  And that's great.  But, a thousand people can't.

I'm kind of hoping that the number of Bitcoiners interested in this is closer to a thousand than a dozen.  Because, with a thousand people, we can eventually all have our own islands, or at least our own flats, and an extremely diverse economy.  But with only a dozen people, we can just have something more akin to a sleepy country club.

If, let's say we divide the island up right off-the-bat and parcel it out to a dozen people.  They each invest a bunch of time and resources into their little lot.  And then things slow down and eventually nothing changes.  It will be generations before our island could have a thousand people on it, let alone produce a seastead or a skyscraper.  And those dozen people would live perfectly boring lives, while the rest of the Bitcoin community gets nothing out of it.

But if, instead, we take the island as a blank slate, and say "what would you do with a little lot?" to thirty-thousand people, perhaps a thousand of them would want to live in a skyscraper on an island, rather than build their own house.  Perhaps they would bring with them an untold wealth of skills and resources.  Perhaps they would want to build seasteads for a living, and expand into the oceans.  Then, I'd say, we might have something worth doing.


Believe me, that would just be the beginning.  I have enough land already.  What I don't have enough of is lobster, coconuts and skyscrapers.

This is a fabulous idea. Even if not enough money is raised, IF it were handled properly (e.g. refunds given if the bid is lost), it could generate good press and set a precedent for future ventures of this kind.

That said, let's be clear on what benjamindees has said (in summary):
"I will become the legal owner of this island if sufficient donations are given, and have no specific obligation whatsoever to those who made donations. I have absolutely no ideas for what to do with the island, and no proposed way to settle on an idea."

There are some other troubling things. For example, he has suggested creating condos, which would not only require vastly more capital to be raised, but would utterly destroy the value of the island. He has suggested a "test facility" (testing what?). He has also stated that "The island will go wherever the market takes it," which is a meaningless statement. Finally, he said that dealing with repaying "a bunch of 5BTC investors" (which is exactly what it will take to make this happen) is not something he is interested in doing, which is kind of trivial compared to managing an island.

Raising enough money to make a serious bid is certainly easily possible for this community, but only if the project is treated as a serious investment, and with all the care that goes along with serious investments. I would like to see someone propose a new plan that takes this into consideration.

Continuing from the last post: I think the best-case scenario for this to succeed is for one or a few extremely trusted bitcoiners, ideally from the bitcoin-otc community and with high ratings, to propose a serious plan. The plan needs to account for the fact that someone has to take on the legal liability of owning the island, as well as the effort of managing it, and thus needs to be compensated in a way that is superproportional to their actual investment.

The plan needs to reconize that someone is going to legally own the island and needs to be entrusted with making the best decisions. Trying to have people "vote" on how the island will be used, is foolish.

Furthermore, it is completely infeasible to try to let all the investors actually use the island for some amout of time. If you want to actually live on the island, you need to actually bid on the island individually, or gather a smaller group of people. In other words, this crowdfunding approach is not a means for people to actually use the island themselves. Unless the island is put up for rent basically as-is, which (BTW) is probably the best way to try to bring in enough money to maintain the property and then eventually flip if the value goes up over time. Note that this scheme would probably allow bitcoiners to rent the island for weeks-long vacations pretty cheaply (albeit at a market rate), which is currently not possible. Anyway, I will leave all the details up to whoever wants to come up with a serious plan.

Also, although I think a new plan is needed, I hope benjamindees is heavily involved, because he deserves credit/reward for the effort he has put in so far, and is possibly the only person who is willing to physically go down their and work on this.

Addendum: While I was writing these posts, benjamindees has made another post where he focuses on things like building a skyscraper on the island. That is an utterly foolish dream that totally misses the point of a remote Carribean island get-away, which is what this is. Please, let's try to be realistic.

Also, the idea of setting a specific target to raise is foolish, because we don't know how much it will ultimately take to win the bidding, and there is no such thing as raising "too much." If "too much" is raised, it can be paid back in proportion to investment made.

That, again, is assuming that a more reasonable plan is proposed, as opposed to us all making donations so that benjamindees can just own the island outright.

Another concern I had was whether a sufficiently very large amount of USD could be liquidated from bitcoins in a sufficiently short amount of time without causing a significant drop in the value of bitcoins in the process. (I mean, think about it, the bid walls I have seen on exchanges are not nearly that large.)

Fortunately, trusted users in #bitcoin-otc have confirmed that it's not a problem.

Having no target translates to a bottomless donation pool that may never reach any specific goals and will charge a fee to give money back. That would ultimately be a scam imo.

That's why we need someone who is very well trusted to run this. But yes, it may be best to put a maximum cap on donations, like $500,000. After all, at a certain point, buying the island would just be a dumb investment.

Anyway, if someone proposes a serious plan, I'm sure they can think through this issue much more thoroughly and explain their thinking.

I don't get the concern over repayment transaction fees, because as has been pointed out, you can use multiway transactions. (I am no expert on that, but that is my understanding.)

Mollison, why don't you take a break from mis-quoting me for a few minutes and come up with a succinct statement of what your actual concern is.
I've read your posts a few times and can't really get anything new out of them other than that you don't like me.
And you think condos are a bad idea.  Maybe you could expand on that.

Though I do find it ironic that the most frequent suggestion so far is that I "haven't thought this idea through."
Even though most of us are here because we know that central planning doesn't work.
Lots of people criticizing me for not doing enough of it.

I highlighted my main points in bold, so you can scroll up and look at them again if you want. All the rest of what I said is supporting/explanatory information.


Well, that's just false, so you might as well get it out of your head that I don't like you. First, there is no reason to draw that inference from what I said; second, I'm new here and don't even know you; and third, I stated that it would be nice to see you given credit and/or rewarded if someone draws up a real plan that treats this as an investment instead of a personal donation to you. (However, your sour grapes are making me question that third thing.)


Your plan is a "central plan" anyway, because you will be in possesion of all donated bitcoins and/or the sole legal owner of the island. It's also not a very good plan.

The entire appeal of this property is that it is a private island. As in, you can go there and have the entire island to yourself and your guests and your servants, only. It is an isolated and idyllic refuge.

If you build a condominium, it is just a condominium surrounded by water, so basically, only very marginally cooler than a condominium on the beach. You've basically turned a private island into a condominium. Also known as flushing money down the toilet.

And an even bigger problem, as I already mentioned, is that building condos, especially on an island, would require raising raising a massive amount of capital, which is probably infeasible.

The problem with a skyscraper is this times 1,000,000,000,000.

Thank you for not bothering to ask why I object to using the island as a "test facility."

Good idea for a Bitcoin resort, very preliminary and thus unrealistic plans for implementation.

There must be at least dozens of islands for sale in the Americas at sub $500.000 level. Ebay auction is not really the best way to acquire such property through a joined venture.

A succesful bitcoin resort would not need to be on an island, it is better to think about the purpose first and then decide on the location and required environment. Once a pilot resort is succesfully being built to some country, users on other continents (in the foreseeable future just Americas / Europe with sufficient users?) would prefer to build their own.

A couple of years ago there was - maybe still is an aspiring traditional e-payment system, supported by some very wealthy people, that built "pavilions" on several continents and provided club services & access for travelling individuals. I joined it, and it was very inspiring, but I never visited any of their pavillions and considered the whole grandiose thing pretty delusional from a profit perspective. Unfortunately I can't even recall what that payment system was named :o.

Okay, mollison...


There's really no way around this.  Obviously you recognize this.  So, please stop the frivolous accusations.

Perhaps condos aren't the best idea.  That's fine.  As I've said from the beginning, the plan is for the market to decide.

Lots of comments but nobody seems to ask the big questions.  Will Nicaraguan women be dancing for bitcoin to entertain us?  And what do Nicaraguan women look like?

Let's just buy an old ship. Much cheaper, more convenient, suitable to many different biz at once, and infinitely more amusing.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6942776759_fec968287e_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_t_in_dc/6942776759/)
Pirate Ship Black Raven (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_t_in_dc/6942776759/) by Mr. T in DC (http://www.flickr.com/people/mr_t_in_dc/), on Flickr

http://endlessbummer.com/images/plats/Tanker.jpg

only missing a large bitcoin logo  :D

A ship would be more amusing, but not more comfortable. I guess it depends which is preferable. I started imagining possibilities for the island... I can see it now: an inviting Casino by the water hosted by StrikeSapphire, cocktail waitresses, courtesy of GirlsGoneBitcoin, in white t-shirts with a golden Bitcoin symbol splashed across their chests. Exciting 24 poker tournaments from SealWithClubs....

I think it could be a good thing  ;)


But @mollison has some good points. I like to think @benjamindees's heart is in the right place, but I would prefer a more thoughtful approach too. There is nothing wrong with a blank canvas and crowdsourcing input, but that's for the theoretical side. When moving on to the practical side it should get more organized. Some sort of corporate structure with fiduciary responsibility to shareholders seems natural.

You do realize that 5 acres is not very big.

This is a building with 5 acres under roof:

http://img3.classistatic.com/cps/po/110708/516r1/29036h_27.jpeg

The following is a small 25 acre resort with condos:

http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/4/8/2/8/2/ar13233543728284.jpg

My home sits on one acre of land, as do the the two homes east of me and the two homes west of me. That's five acres. If somebody yelled from the corner of the second house to the left, another person would have no problem hearing it at the opposite corner of the second house on the right.

From the looks of the images on eBay, you have a handsome home surrounded by a landscaped property. Not much room there to build anything else.

Hope I put this into some perspective. (I'm not dissing the idea, but...)

To paraphrase a line in "Jaws": We need a bigger island!

~Bruno~

It's not very big, no.  But most large Caribbean islands are basically glorified sandbars.  5 acres is big enough to be self-sufficient and accommodate a bunch of different interesting uses.

This one nearby is similar, and 9.5 acres:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/lime-cay.htm

This one is 25 acres, but is a Wildlife Preserve:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/isla-parida-panama.htm

33 acres, not a bad deal actually:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/grenell-and-horseshoe-caye.htm

I vote for the 25 acre Wildlife Preserve, that way we can all feel right at home.

I got an instant visual image of that midget guy from the 70's movies with MagicTux's head.  Too bad I'm not handy with photoshop.

Internet access on the island not good enough for web cam?  No problem...just use binoculars.

No, no, that's not right.  Look at the map (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11.802401%2C-83.661222&z=18).  Five acres is much more than just that.  The pics don't show all of it.

Besides, just for perspective, you know what else sits on one acre?  The Burj al Arab (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=burj%20al%20arab%2C%20dubai&z=18).

The Secret of Bitcoin Island (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKHDwdeYuQE)

Answered in separate thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82350.0

Very cool.

I have actually experimented with a floating island design (floathaven .com).

Its still in the prototype phase so I wont accept money from anyone, but once ready I think we can churn out land for about 20$/m^2.

You guys should look into the seasteading movement, very BTC like.

How about building an underwater city ala Bioshock?
Or an aircraft carrier ala Snowcrash?

I've never played Bioshock.  I'd tried to read Snowcrash, but just couldn't get into it like I did with Cryptocromicon, System of the World & The Diamond Age. 

Why an aircraft carrier?  Those are particularly uncomfortable ships.  How about a cruise ship?

Until something dramatic is found on the ocean's floor to justify the expense, a city underwater is actually less likely from an economic perspective than one on the Moon.  At least a moonbase would verifiablely have H3 to collect for export.  There is probably nothing else on the moon of any particular scarcity to ever justify a moonbase economicly.  Bitcoin mining in the dark craters of the moon would have free cooling and continuous solar power for two weeks at a time, though.

Five acres is very small.  Are we sure it isn't in hectares?

A hectare is 2.471 acres, so that would make it 12.355 acres, which still seems small. I think we need something at least 25 acres.

What do you think? How about new free country/free town/free bitcoin island?

More info on Wirtland:

http://grou.ps/witizens/videos/1266229 (video Fox45 News)

http://www.wirtland.com/ (home page)

Well, it's certainly interesting and I think Bitcoin, the first real Internet currency, should certainly be the official currency of Wirtland, the first country that exists only on the Internet.

Apparently, their population is 2,031 as of 1/11/2011. Adding bitcoiners and Libertarians into the mix could certainly boost that, but I do think soil is needed. Seasteading, as mentioned earlier in the thread, looks interesting too:


What we really need is to combine all three of these: Bitcoin + Wirtland + Seasteading = Awesome?

BINGO!

Yesterday, I was thinking about Googling to see if such a place exist. After reading your post earlier today, I've pondered our obtions during the course of the rest of the day. I've visited the site, and look what I found--their forum. It's pretty huge, therefore I was only able to take a screen shot of it. http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab324/WhiteLotus_21/emoticons/LMAO.gif

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7225391318_7f39d9d5e1.jpg

I've got something up my sleeve and, if we do this right, I believe we can bring further awareness to Bitcoin. Watch for my next thread.

~Bruno~

How 'bout this one? It's only $31M... just about the value of all the Bitcoins in circulation ::)
http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/1686737_1.jpg

Comes with a casino, and yes, StrikeSapphire would happily host the game and beverage concession. Connectivity might be a little tough out there, considering how expensive satellite links are, but maybe one of the European pirate parties would go 50/50 on it and help set it up as a little offshore data haven, to help subsidize the costs. And then of course you need a captain and crew, and possibly some kind of defensive armaments, considering the number of real pirates out there these days.

http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/640_cruise_ship_for_sale.html (http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/640_cruise_ship_for_sale.html)

Question about seasteading: Just because nobody claims a territory currently, doesn't mean they won't in the future. And then it's your army against theirs. I'd think a ship (being mobile) would be a better option. You'd need a solid internet connection for bitcoining though...

Total Received   1 BTC

Almost there.

Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run. After doing a cursory internet search, it looks like one would need a minimum of a Captain, Staff Captain, Chief / First Officer, Chief Radio Officer, Security Officer, Deckhand, Able Seaman, Safety Officer, Bosun / First Mate, Chief Engineer, Chief Electrician, Electrician, Motorman, and a Plumber.

Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?

Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.

No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.

Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.

On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.

Agree on both counts. And I also think that the Bitcoin community is the shortest viable route to establishing a micronation that exists today, given we already have a currency. In fact, we're a currency in search of a country. The problem is, if you're going to choose a flag of convenience, you have to be careful you choose one that won't invade or nationalize you as soon as you start doing something interesting. Honduras might be a better choice. Costa Rica would probably be great. Nicaragua is a definite no-go. No way in hell. I wouldn't even consider opening a bank account there, let alone buying property.

*One little edit to this - the online casino industry is way ahead of the curve when it comes to figuring out the basics you need in a jurisdiction before trying to operate there with a large amount of capital. The lessons learned in the industry since the late '90s would be useful to someone today trying to navigate the world of offshore finance, real estate, data storage and currency exchange.

A ship could also move out of the way of a storm, an island can't.  And considering that we're talking about glorified sandbars, there's no certainty that there will be any useful island left after the first good tropical storm rolls through.

And a ship that isn't moving, doesn't need a pilot.  Most of those jobs mentioned can be performed by the same people while not piloting the ship.  Do you really think that a ship needs both a first officer and a radio officer?  Some ships need these things, but mostly because they are in constant motion.

Realistically, you could almost definitely find crew up to the officer level who'd be willing to live & work for a decent room and board. And yes, you could move away from storms as well as from regional powers who suddenly decided to expand their maritime claims to include your island, as has been done many times before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva).

The first sustainable micronation will have to float, and have to have great connectivity. The reason it hasn't been done yet boils down to the fact that floating and having great internet access are still mutually exclusive. That is the only reason it hasn't been done. Beyond that, there are questions of what laws, who's in charge, what currency, etc; but with a functional currency independent of national fiat, Bitcoiners are actually uniquely well positioned to create something like this...possibly more so than any other group since the founding city-states of the Hanseatic league opened up the original free trade zone.

The key to making it work would be overcoming the inherent costs in reconciling mobility (floating) with connectivity (tethering), while sacrificing neither freedom of movement nor freedom of communication. That is what any such plan ultimately comes down to. A Bitcoin micronation requires that you not trade away economic or personal liberties in exchange for the other. No nation on earth presently accommodates both types of liberties, and if the "Chinese Model" is any indication, things will only go downhill from here. So - yeah - a ship is a good place to start. Nicaraguan island, not so much.

Great idea until the ship mysterious sinks into the Mariana Trench, or the like, thereby concealing the true cause of the "accident" for years to come.

You WILL need to transfer that to fiat for the purchase, and I'd like to see someone sell 40k BTC without crashing the market and actually get $5 per coin  :o

Recently I heard that the PirateBay was thinking to launch drones to use as pirate satellites or s/t like that. Maybe they could support our floating micronation with connectivity if we take them aboard.

what about concentrate manpower (core team) startups TEAM on the Blueseed vessel and kick some Silicon Valley ass?
here is one ISP most cruise line company used
http://www.mcp.com/ (http://www.mcp.com/)
http://www.harris.com/ (http://www.harris.com/)

FAQ Update


Fees have been lowered to 0.3%.
On a 5 BTC ($25) contribution, the fee would be 0.015 BTC (8 cents).
On the total 40,000 BTC goal, the fee would be 120 BTC ($600).


My identity is not hidden.


If we can't manage to crowdfund a 5 acre island, we probably can't crowdfund anything larger.


This island is definitely not a glorified sandbar, as you can tell by the picture.


Contributors of 50 BTC or more will receive VIP invitations to an inaugural beach bash held on the island.  This will be a 3-5 day event combining partying and relaxation while sleeping under the stars and enjoying the warm weather and ocean breezes.


$20 / m^2 is equivalent to $400,000 (http://www.google.com/search?q=20+dollars+%2F+m^2+in+dollars+%2F+5+acre) for 5 acres or approximately 80,000 BTC.
Seasteads have to be rebuilt periodically as well.  Islands don't.


The world's largest ship has a footprint of 5.8 acres and cost $1.2 billion to build, the equivalent of 25 times the entire Bitcoin economy.

I do admire you for addressing the questions and concerns in a constructive manner. That said, I'd like to see this conversation continue, but time may be of the essence, for the island may be sold before ducks are in a row here.

~Bruno~

Two days remain.  It only takes a couple of hours to confirm a Bitcoin transaction.

I look forward to addressing all concerns.  But if you're expecting any major changes, don't hold your breath.

Again, uh, what makes you think the Nicaraguan government would be friendly about this?


RE: Raising funds in USD, I think that would be more than possible; the value of the Bitcoin economy is much greater than the current value of Bitcoins in circulation.

Wait, you're saying contributors get nothing unless they donate 50+ bitcoins and then they get an invitation to a party?

Can we have a 'little person', say: "De Plane, De Plane" ?

If this was international waters, you would probably get a lot of interest. What jurisdiction does it fall under?

Of course not, you also get the honor of buying him an island.

what would it cost to buy him completely?

I've read through this thread once, but not sure if this link was posted.

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/cayo-iguana-nicaragua.htm

Very true, even in my expensive expensive country you can get large areas of farm land for maybe 4$/m^2, deserted islands and deserts come at nickles.

However floating islands lets you get cheap real estate quite near huge cities, while too expensive for farming, housing and some industries are a definite possibility.

You can't really earn money or anything on a remote island - hence why its cheap!

If people are interested in this subject seasteading.org is all about it - sites pretty dead, little technological development hence my floathaven site.


Notice how much I shaved off the price there? ;)

A lot of our materials are actually cheaper than the 20$/m^2 we have to pay so if you scale up and have your own factory you could probably dump the price to near 4$ OR increase quality.

Of course you have to build stuff on top too - but for the right industry/place it can make sense.

I don't think we've settled on two important preliminary questions: 1) is this (or any) island what we want/need? 2) Is an ebay auction the best way to buy an island?

This 'island' has been up for sale a few times on ebay and never met the reserve.

Note that this is a 'rush, cash only sale' they claim they have no time to wait for banks that should be a huge red flag.

Here's the real price of that island:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/cayo-iguana-nicaragua.htm

Another huge red flag is this guy used to sell scammy weight loss pills where the bulk of his feedack comes from. Then of course there's this:
"    Follow-up by swabby-ret (May-03-12 10:45):
    YOU SOLD ME A RAT AND ROACH INFESTECONDO ON FOREST CITY RD. YOU ARE A DISGRACE! "

It also claims there are employees there, well you'd better research Nicaraguan laws because you probably have to keep them employed or pay out severence.

You're crazy if you think this is a legit sale and will only cost $127,000.
If you want that cheap (and economic paradise) then look into Ecuador land or North Cyprus

You're right! This is the best way to buy an island: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49734.0

Consider this as an option: http://waterstudio.nl/videos/42

Finally, someone with half a brain in this thread.

I think that's a bit harsh. I don't think anyone had moved past more than musing at the thought of our own island.

EDIT: Actually @BitAvenue seemed to have been seriously considering it ;)

I agree. It's was a good way to gauge interest and introduce possible avenues for property acquisition for a group of community members but I seriously doubt anyone thought this particular sale had a chance of happening.