Bitcoin Forum

So I am going to do something extremely stupid...

I am selling Bitcoins on Ebay (you can pay with Paypal), and you can buy some if you want.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221025863128#ht_483wt_1415

You are buying a POG, and will be receiving 5 Bitcoins free of charge. This in theory will avoid any sort of chargeback scamming because I will be shipping an actual item. So buyers can't chargeback me, and they will be safe knowing they are buying from an 100% rated seller. Yeah, $40 for 5 BTC is a little high. But after the Paypal fees, Ebay fees, and shipping. I am not making that much. Plus I need a little extra if I am going to be sticking my neck out. I will lower the price if this catches on. Assuming I don't get scammed and/or Paypal freezes my account.

Anyway, happy bidding. Comments, suggestions are all welcome.

Excellent idea!!! :)

Bad idea - all they have to do is claim that the item is not as described, eBay/PayPal will have them ship it back to you and force you to refund in full.  The free bitcoins you sent will really be free.

people are just going to file Item Not As Described and will ship back the pog to you and keep the bitcoins.

then your paypal account will get frozen.

have fun!

What makes you think you can't chargeback a physical item.

"Paypal my credit card was stolen and someone bought all these expensive pogs I think it might be organized crime."

"Paypal the pog arrived damaged I wish to return it for a full refund"

"Paypal the seller shipped an empty box"

"Paypal the pog arrived "not as described" I wish to return it for a full refund"

"Paypal I never authorized this purchase I think my account may have been hacked"

Still have fun.

They can't demand to return something. If it's "broken", they'll have to take their argument up with the USPS. They are paying for the POG, Bitcoins are an extra bonus that comes completely free. The value of the POG is questionable since it's a collectors item. Everything is covered by Ebay's Seller Protection. I should be good to go.

Sure.  Keep telling yourself that.  

You do know ebay/Paypal has a buyer protection program right?  I personally have returned items which were damaged/defective/not as described.  Now I wasn't doing it fraudulently but it can be easily be done.  You honestly don't think buyer can demand a return.  

Google "ebay item not as described".

Just one example from my personal ebay history

Subbed for the "totally unexpected" sob story to come in 30-60 days.

Seriously, just avoid the hassle of dealing with Ebay and use https://www.spendbitcoins.com/convert/ I've used it several times to get money into my paypal and I haven't run into any problems yet. You most likely will get scammed or at least have to deal with paypal's resolution center (which is the most infuriating thing in the world) a couple of times even if you do get some successful transactions.

Please consider reading this thread:


  - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67137.0

I'm feeling ready to jump into the eBay market myself.

I have plenty of virtual transaction experience and dealing with chargebacks (Not dealing with them directly but avoiding them.) What's the best way to sell these? From reading the posts selling a bitcoin by itself is not a good idea? Adding a paperclip is also not a good idea. But selling it with a DVD is acceptable? I'm basically just looking at advice to keep my account in good standing and not about chargebacks. I'm well aware of them and have read all the stories.

So you're saying sell a DVD with free Bitcoins?

What happens when I say the DVD doesn't work, return it but never return the Bitcoins?

Also selling Bitcoins is against PayPal's TOS anyways.

Then most likely you'll take the bitcoins for free as everyone has discussed. But I have ways of screening out people who will try to scam me on eBay.

Has PayPal actually come out themselves saying Bitcoins is against the ToS? Because if so, I'd expect eBay blocking the word Bitcoin from any auction description which they have not.

You must be new to eBay.  You are using the words seller and protection near each other.  You still can make a business model out of it if the number of scammers is low enough.  The problem is each scammer counts against some kind of hidden rating at PayPal.  Even if you are willing to accept the fraud, PayPal will close your account. 

The largest issue becomes sliding ratio between scammers and legit buyers.

Lets just say hypothetically if you could sell coins using reversible payment system @ MtGox rate, the % of scammers would be 15% of sales.  15% isn't bad right?  Well if you sold @ MtGox rate you would have no profit.  So you go 15% scammers + goal of having 10% profit.  So just mark the coins up 25%.   Well the problem is that @ +25% they become much less attractive to legit buyers so the "concentration of scammers goes up.  Instead of say 15% scammers it is now maybe 25% scammers.  So you need to mark it up to 35%.  Of course we need to consider ebay/PP costs of 10% so it is more like 45% markup. 

However once again at 45% markup it is even less attractive to legit buyers.... etc.

To everyone out there who wants to buy BTC using PayPal, follow this 2 step tutorial:

1. Withdraw your PayPal balance to your bank account
2. Wire it to your favourite exchange.

Yes. I'm aware of what happened with CoinPal.

And I'm going to send you a private message regarding your other question.

Thats the only way :)

Yea but that only works if you don't mind PayPal chasing you your whole life.