Bitcoin Forum

Good for Bitpay buy bad for the price...

BitPay Plans to Have “One Million Merchants Taking Bitcoin by the End of 2016″

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitpay-one-million-merchants-taking-bitcoin-end-2016/ (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitpay-one-million-merchants-taking-bitcoin-end-2016/)

I agree in terms of overall health of the bitcoin economy it is totally good..but in terms of price, it is going to be always a negative pressure.

I believe the real use value for bitcoin is what will drive price up, something like drones and autonomous vehicles trying to deal only bitcoin in which case bitcoin become a thing where people really want to have bitcoins in order to use a service!

the merchant adoption i think is a bitter pill

what good is a currency if you can't spend it?

i don't hear anyone complain the dollar is accepted almost everywhere in the world.

and dollar does not increase 1000% in an year.. bitcoin does

Bitcoin was.

If it still will, then merchants will keep profit they make on sales in bitcoins since 1000% a year is much more then their current business profit.

Yeah, you definitely need a place to spend bitcoins. It definitely hurts the price when merchants offload all their sales for fiat though. But adoption will also bring in more users to bitcoins and increase demand so it will be good as well.

bitcoin also decreased 70% from the start of this year.  just becasue it rose doesn't mean it will forever.  I think by the time "one million merchants" are taking bitcoins there will be enough users to cause a stable price level

i want to make clear i am pro merchant adoption but at the same time I want to emphasize that to create use value for bitcoin itself we need to speed up technologies such as internet of things!

that will only truly take bitcoin to moon!

A stable price level would actually further increase bitcoin adoption. That would be good for the overall bitcoin economy.

It seems like you've got two conflicting thoughts here.

"Always" is a pretty strong statement. We're witnessing the natural evolution of a new payment system and money. I understand that at this point most retailers are selling their BTC, but slowly they will start to gain confidence and hold increasing amounts of their assets as BTC. Increased adoption will mean increased confidence for everyone. So actually, negative selling pressure will be offset at an ever increasing rate I think.

I agree, your idea about autonomous vehicles would be a good way to increase demand. Open Bazaar is another product I am really excited for!

Absolutely not. If a million merchants each have 10 customers who want to try bitcoin that's 10 million new users buying bitcoin. They will probably keep a small balance in their wallets pulling those coins off the market.

And if they get comfortable using bitcoin and see there are a million ways to use it, they may move part of their savings into bitcoin; pulling those coins off the market as well.

Net positive all around.

I agree. Increased adoption = greater demand= higher price. Unlike the dollar, there's a limited quantity of BTC so I can see supply and demand coming into play.

Don't forget demand will pick up also when people abroad trying to buy good and service in US and elsewhere.

Bitcoin merchants will be more inclined to keep a percentage of their profits in Bitcoins once they see it stay stable against all the chaos in the economies that is beginning now.

you guys have to see if 1 million merchants are accepting, it wont take long until the merchants themself will hold bitcoin and trade via bitcoin.
selling pressure exist because merchants exchange btc to fiat, but if there producer start to accepting bitcoin the circle of a real currency starts.

-> increasing adoption

GOOD point

current bitcoin prices slowly starting to improve, the possibility of the collector is no longer selling them to the market bitcoin, bitcoin they even started buying from the market to be invested immediately, it makes the price of bitcoin back slowly improving, hopefully more and more people are collecting bitcoin and not bitcoin sell in large numbers ...  8)

Don't you realize that if Bitcoin is accepted in more places, then it's more valuable, as it has more uses, and therefore its demand increases, and, therefore its price also increases?

This is not true. In order for a merchant that accept bitcoin to want to hold onto the bitcoin they receive from sales they will need to have something they can spend their bitcoin on. In order for this to be a possibility, we not only need much greater merchant adoption, but also merchant adoption by B2B merchants

That's another factor, but stability is something that many have been complaining about adopting even a small percentage of Bitcoin in the first place and seems to be the main driver right now,but we're still seeing merchants steadily accepting it, even now when I'm randomly browsing websites and checking out ones I usually visit I see a Bitcoin symbol magically pop up by their payment options.

Trust me, it'll be like Argentina and Cyprus, when the shit hits the fan Bitcoin is going to look incredibly stable next to the dollar.

Where there is supply, there is also demand.

Demand will come from consumers abroad trying to pay merchants abroad. If global payment system is picked up, price will reach its equilibrium.

adoptation is driving the value of an asset up.
- the merchants are keeping alittle bit of btc always in stock or spare.
- the buyer converts his domestic currency into btc and buy the good and is keeping alittle bit of it in his pocket.

alot of people keeping alittle bit in their pocket, what should be good for the price.

turnover is also a very good indication for the value of an asset. demand shows value.

however, i try to understand your argumentation too.

Don't be so short sighted.  Merchant adoption is overwhelmingly a positive.  Hearing people blaming merchants for the recent price decline is about as annoying and irrational as hearing people blaming miners for mining at GHash.io.  Each additional store that accepts Bitcoin increases the awareness of Bitcoin to that store's customers and employees.  I talk to merchants frequently about accepting Bitcoin and most of them, even at this date, have either not heard of it, think there is something illegal about it, or think that Bitcoin went out of business.  I want a "Bitcoin accepted here" sticker on the window of every store I go to.  I want the awareness and advertising that comes with it.   

Merchants are users too.
So a million of merchants is a million of consumers.
And a million of consumers with suppliers and employees to pay.
More merchants are there, more it is probable they start accumulating a balance in  BTC to pay other merchants for goods, services or to pay their employees (in full or in part).

Merchant is basic, now we need common folk using it. Why you want to call Bitcoin a currency, if you are sad that merchants adopt it? whats the point.
Price will go up, with higher demand, thats all.

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i think its a good news an i hope it happens sooner than later, if the merchants start taking bitcoins then it will grow and it shows that more and more people has and will start using bitcoin and i think it means the growth of this currency and hopefully a bit more stability of the price

exactly, which will make bitcoin more scarce, and at the same time merchants will want more bitcoin and less dollars, thus they will aggressively advertise bitcoin. Creating a positive feedback loop of both decreased supply and increased demand, and a large boom in price.

 

I think merchant adoption is not a bitter pill at all. have you ever heard of the term demand vs supply?

I also plan to have 2000 women next year... let's see if me wanted that makes it happen...

And you will be screaming for help...

Stop making so much sense, the forum might freeze.

yes the more merchants with bitpay the price will be more down

If BTC can be circulated inside the economy, the price will go up.

I guess the velocity of bitcoin is currently far lesser than the amount of bitcoins in circulation.
So we will have to wait for sometime for BTC to be circulated just within the economy.

Exactly. More merchants accepting bitcoin will cause more people to use bitcoin which will cause more merchants to accept bitcoin, which will cause both more people to use bitcoin and merchants to accept bitcoin on a B2B basis. This should create a greater long term demand for bitcoin (resulting in higher prices).

I would argue that the increased number of merchants accepting bitcoin is only causing a short term price decline until they start to cause more people to use bitcoin

It wouldn't create much selling pressure but It could help circulate bitcoin to more people and when there are many merchants /services accepting bitcoins, it would also make people buy bitcoins. It could actually balance the price of bitcoin.

Some merchants believe in holding bitcoins - overstock and CeX are examples which readily come to mind.

If they can spend their coins, that is even better.

Without selllers, there might be no bitcoin economy. Then price would tank more.

I would love to use Bitcoin for worldwide payments, even tho cashing out is a pain in the ass anyway. So ideally you wouldn't need to cash out.

If merchants start to leave BitPay and return to just using PayPal and credit cards, then will the price skyrocket?

if those merchants are selling, they must buy first you know, i mean the customers must buy first to send bitcoin to them and let them dump, this mean the price will remain stable

It wont. Bitcoin lacks users. Holders everywhere but no users.

If users are lacking, then merchants selling bitcoins and driving the price down wouldn't be a problem, would it?  ;)

I don't think number of merchants accepting bitcoin would become one of the factors that drives selling pressure. It has nothing to do with that. In order to pay in bitcoin i would have to buy bitcoin. Once the merchants accepts bitcoin they will sell it to mitigate volatility risk. In this case almost square one.

However scenario would be different if let's say,
1. Bitcoin supply is not enough for the buyers to acquire
2. Merchants decide to keep the bitcoin thus reduce available supply in market
Both scenario with more merchants taking in bitcoin means price would be going up not down