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Title: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: cafucafucafu on October 21, 2014, 01:21:20 PM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it?
It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Dissonance on October 21, 2014, 01:36:20 PM most whales are not dumb enough to dump 20k coins on an exchange at one time.
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Gargulan on October 21, 2014, 02:41:57 PM Whales == mining farm.
Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: gentlemand on October 21, 2014, 02:44:06 PM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. If you're organised enough to have a giant mining farm, you'll also have an ongoing off market deal to sell your coins. I wouldn't want my organisation and investment hinging on a few shaky exchanges. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: fewcoins on October 21, 2014, 02:51:17 PM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. If you're organised enough to have a giant mining farm, you'll also have an ongoing off market deal to sell your coins. I wouldn't want my organisation and investment hinging on a few shaky exchanges. The thing is when they're no real world buyers but plenty of people online that already have cash in the system ready to buy... Sometimes you need to do what you need to do! Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: MichaelBliss on October 21, 2014, 02:58:29 PM Miners will always need to sell their coins to pay for expenses, but I'm not sure the "whales" that have been dumping their coins at below market rates could possibly be miners, because that's such a dumb move.
I haven't followed it that closely, but to me it appeared that the big dumps, especially the one at $300 recently, were efforts to manipulate the market (down) at a loss to whoever did it. Akin to what happened with Gold / GLD a while back where someone apparently took a huge loss just to dump a lot of Gold at below market rates, driving the price way down. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: fewcoins on October 21, 2014, 03:50:40 PM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. Correct! Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: azguard on October 22, 2014, 05:12:52 AM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. Correct! True indeed, just they sell half of mined coin and half they keep. For what that is opinion maybe to invest maybe to hold for better price. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: unrealistic on October 22, 2014, 06:18:30 AM They are really dump to drop off so much coins all the time, they must sell them by very small fractions, so that it won't affect market much.
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: SquallLeonhart on October 22, 2014, 07:19:47 AM Was actually hopping the difficulty would go so fast that even giant farm isn't profitable. Then we would see them close down one by one..
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: asdlolciterquit on October 22, 2014, 08:04:53 AM Was actually hopping the difficulty would go so fast that even giant farm isn't profitable. Then we would see them close down one by one.. but if one by one they stop mining diff will go down, and then it will profitable again and all begin one more time.. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Brmaster on October 22, 2014, 08:28:13 AM just because the price is too low to meet the whale's appetite :-[
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Honeypot on October 22, 2014, 08:42:57 AM It seems that way - the old money is afraid their promised millions might never materialize, and is willing to sell for 7 million money now instead of waiting for 70 or 100 down the road.
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: porcupine87 on October 22, 2014, 09:22:32 AM Miners will always need to sell their coins to pay for expenses, but I'm not sure the "whales" that have been dumping their coins at below market rates could possibly be miners, because that's such a dumb move. I haven't followed it that closely, but to me it appeared that the big dumps, especially the one at $300 recently, were efforts to manipulate the market (down) at a loss to whoever did it. Akin to what happened with Gold / GLD a while back where someone apparently took a huge loss just to dump a lot of Gold at below market rates, driving the price way down. Imagine, that you had 30 000 bitcoins bought for 10$ each(or for less). After the high last year the price is falling all the time and in 4. of October it reaches a new low in this year. Now, if you sell at 300$ you have a 3000%. You get 5Mio. dollars after taxes for sure. You can park that money on a bank and get 50 000$ interest on it or more. For the rest of your life. Or you buy stocks, real estate, gold etc. and get a profit out of it, that guarantees you a good income for your life time. So. There is a chance that the Bitcoin price will be at sub 10 dollar in a year. Maybe it will go to zero in a few year. Would you sell or risk it? Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: asdlolciterquit on October 22, 2014, 10:38:33 AM Miners will always need to sell their coins to pay for expenses, but I'm not sure the "whales" that have been dumping their coins at below market rates could possibly be miners, because that's such a dumb move. I haven't followed it that closely, but to me it appeared that the big dumps, especially the one at $300 recently, were efforts to manipulate the market (down) at a loss to whoever did it. Akin to what happened with Gold / GLD a while back where someone apparently took a huge loss just to dump a lot of Gold at below market rates, driving the price way down. Imagine, that you had 30 000 bitcoins bought for 10$ each(or for less). After the high last year the price is falling all the time and in 4. of October it reaches a new low in this year. Now, if you sell at 300$ you have a 3000%. You get 5Mio. dollars after taxes for sure. You can park that money on a bank and get 50 000$ interest on it or more. For the rest of your life. Or you buy stocks, real estate, gold etc. and get a profit out of it, that guarantees you a good income for your life time. So. There is a chance that the Bitcoin price will be at sub 10 dollar in a year. Maybe it will go to zero in a few year. Would you sell or risk it? 0? 10 dollars? if 1 btc= 300$ you're right, but with a price <10$, what you say can't be right. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: resya on October 22, 2014, 11:43:04 AM whales wouldn't waste there time for small movements when they can make large profits off large moments
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Unbelive on October 22, 2014, 12:17:38 PM Miners will always need to sell their coins to pay for expenses, but I'm not sure the "whales" that have been dumping their coins at below market rates could possibly be miners, because that's such a dumb move. I haven't followed it that closely, but to me it appeared that the big dumps, especially the one at $300 recently, were efforts to manipulate the market (down) at a loss to whoever did it. Akin to what happened with Gold / GLD a while back where someone apparently took a huge loss just to dump a lot of Gold at below market rates, driving the price way down. Imagine, that you had 30 000 bitcoins bought for 10$ each(or for less). After the high last year the price is falling all the time and in 4. of October it reaches a new low in this year. Now, if you sell at 300$ you have a 3000%. You get 5Mio. dollars after taxes for sure. You can park that money on a bank and get 50 000$ interest on it or more. For the rest of your life. Or you buy stocks, real estate, gold etc. and get a profit out of it, that guarantees you a good income for your life time. So. There is a chance that the Bitcoin price will be at sub 10 dollar in a year. Maybe it will go to zero in a few year. Would you sell or risk it? To reduce risk just dont sell all. Sell a bit. When price raises more sell more. Wehn price fall buy a bit. when price fall more, buy even more. ;D Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: porcupine87 on October 22, 2014, 01:07:27 PM Miners will always need to sell their coins to pay for expenses, but I'm not sure the "whales" that have been dumping their coins at below market rates could possibly be miners, because that's such a dumb move. I haven't followed it that closely, but to me it appeared that the big dumps, especially the one at $300 recently, were efforts to manipulate the market (down) at a loss to whoever did it. Akin to what happened with Gold / GLD a while back where someone apparently took a huge loss just to dump a lot of Gold at below market rates, driving the price way down. Imagine, that you had 30 000 bitcoins bought for 10$ each(or for less). After the high last year the price is falling all the time and in 4. of October it reaches a new low in this year. Now, if you sell at 300$ you have a 3000%. You get 5Mio. dollars after taxes for sure. You can park that money on a bank and get 50 000$ interest on it or more. For the rest of your life. Or you buy stocks, real estate, gold etc. and get a profit out of it, that guarantees you a good income for your life time. So. There is a chance that the Bitcoin price will be at sub 10 dollar in a year. Maybe it will go to zero in a few year. Would you sell or risk it? 0? 10 dollars? if 1 btc= 300$ you're right, but with a price <10$, what you say can't be right. I mean someone bought (or mined) 30 000 coins in the single digit range and if he sells at $300 he would make a lot of profit which noone can talk away from him. If he just holds 100% of his wealth in Bitcoin, he might lose all. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: porcupine87 on October 22, 2014, 01:12:07 PM ... To reduce risk just dont sell all. Sell a bit. When price raises more sell more. Wehn price fall buy a bit. when price fall more, buy even more. ;D Maybe he just sold a bit. The thing is that many people here scream for manipulation because they have the illusion that Bitcoin will be worth more and more. But it isn't a sure thing. I read this all the time here. In May the price rose from $450 to about $600. Then people just said "You fool. You sold at $450. How stupid are you." Let the price fall to $100 and then ask again how stupid one could be to sell at $300... Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: CoinCidental on October 22, 2014, 01:23:21 PM It seems that way - the old money is afraid their promised millions might never materialize, and is willing to sell for 7 million money now instead of waiting for 70 or 100 down the road. If you mean the early adoptors by "old money" then I think they had plenty of chances to dump and walk away with enough to retire on Anyone who's been here for that long knows there will be ups and downs and is unlikely, Imo to sell in a panic at 300usd Anyone sitting on tens of thousands of Coins from the early days has no reason to suddenly dump at the drop of a bit of bad news Maybe it's retailers cashing out to pay suppliers or something similar as they may be afraid of being ruined by a potential loss of fiat Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: whitemage on October 22, 2014, 01:26:57 PM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Weak hand whale already sold everything, what is left is giant miners.. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: MichaelBliss on October 22, 2014, 03:01:48 PM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Weak hand whale already sold everything, what is left is giant miners.. How do you know this? Is it a guess or do you have some reason for thinking the bearwhale is finished? Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: orsotheysaid on October 22, 2014, 05:33:32 PM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Weak hand whale already sold everything, what is left is giant miners.. How do you know this? Is it a guess or do you have some reason for thinking the bearwhale is finished? There's no way to know. There are indeed lots of weak whales that are pannicking since the last ATH and every dollar we do down they panick even more. Then there are whales that are 100% convinced BTC has a future and are keeping their luckycoins in cold storage (rpietila and the rest). We'll see who wins at the end. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: hacknoid on October 22, 2014, 06:33:12 PM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. I am so sick of this argument that all these "dumps" are caused by mining farms; there are simply not that many new coins compared to the trade volume. Look at the numbers: new coins minted each day: 3600 (avg) largest mining farms percentage: ~30% So roughly 1000 coins per day from one farm, or 7000 per week. In the past 24 hours the USD exchange volume alone is about 25K BTC; the chinese exchanges are 5x that. So you're talking less than 1% of the coins traded per day. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Corenin on October 23, 2014, 02:22:10 AM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. I am so sick of this argument that all these "dumps" are caused by mining farms; there are simply not that many new coins compared to the trade volume. Look at the numbers: new coins minted each day: 3600 (avg) largest mining farms percentage: ~30% So roughly 1000 coins per day from one farm, or 7000 per week. In the past 24 hours the USD exchange volume alone is about 25K BTC; the chinese exchanges are 5x that. So you're talking less than 1% of the coins traded per day. Most of the trade are by day trader, they buy and sell to each other so the volume is high... Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: hacknoid on October 23, 2014, 02:03:28 PM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. I am so sick of this argument that all these "dumps" are caused by mining farms; there are simply not that many new coins compared to the trade volume. Look at the numbers: new coins minted each day: 3600 (avg) largest mining farms percentage: ~30% So roughly 1000 coins per day from one farm, or 7000 per week. In the past 24 hours the USD exchange volume alone is about 25K BTC; the chinese exchanges are 5x that. So you're talking less than 1% of the coins traded per day. Most of the trade are by day trader, they buy and sell to each other so the volume is high... That may be, but a trade is still a trade. Point is - any addition of "new" coins gets lost in the noise of all the other trades going on. Doesn't matter if most of those are the same coins being traded back and forth. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Gargulan on November 03, 2014, 08:09:15 AM Whales == mining farm. Until they go away or gone bust, there will be huge dump every day/week. I am so sick of this argument that all these "dumps" are caused by mining farms; there are simply not that many new coins compared to the trade volume. Look at the numbers: new coins minted each day: 3600 (avg) largest mining farms percentage: ~30% So roughly 1000 coins per day from one farm, or 7000 per week. In the past 24 hours the USD exchange volume alone is about 25K BTC; the chinese exchanges are 5x that. So you're talking less than 1% of the coins traded per day. Most of the trade are by day trader, they buy and sell to each other so the volume is high... Yes. The only entity benefiting from the whole crypto ecology system is the exchange. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: rix5 on November 05, 2014, 01:12:30 AM no miners dumping on you in uno, that's the mainfeature ;)
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: JimboToronto on November 05, 2014, 01:37:17 AM If you're organised enough to have a giant mining farm, you'll also have an ongoing off market deal to sell your coins. I wouldn't want my organisation and investment hinging on a few shaky exchanges. Correct. If anything, it's the miners' OTC customers who stand to gain by dumping the occasional thousand coins on the exchanges to keep prices down on the tens of thousands of coins they buy OTC at prices based on exchange rates. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: arieq on December 06, 2014, 03:15:25 PM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Weak hand whale already sold everything, what is left is giant miners.. I understand very well how some big btc owners work, it's just simply a misunderstanding that all big dumps are whales. Sometimes, price dumps simply because somebody sold a bunch of BTC. Maybe the owner wanted to raise some cash to buy a car or put a downpayment on a house. No diabolic master plan. Just a sale. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: SHA255 on December 06, 2014, 07:43:14 PM I have been speaking with some very intelligent people, and they all seem to think that Bitcoin is on the verge of dropping below $200 this year or early next. So be careful guys, don't fall into the bull trap too soon
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: ssmc2 on December 06, 2014, 07:44:20 PM I have been speaking with some very intelligent people, and they all seem to think that Bitcoin is on the verge of dropping below $200 this year or early next. So be careful guys, don't fall into the bull trap too soon I spoke with Satoshi just yesterday and he advised the opposite. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: picolo on December 06, 2014, 09:42:31 PM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Miners are selling to pay for their hardware, maintenance and electricity; as the price goes down they need to sell more BTC to have the same number of Dollar which push the price lower. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: gustav on December 07, 2014, 01:50:28 AM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? more and more people get used to them and cash out on them. Manipulation can't go on forever because it's repetive patterns and people start to exploit those which makes the manipulation ineffective. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: fewcoins on December 07, 2014, 03:38:59 AM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Miners are selling to pay for their hardware, maintenance and electricity; as the price goes down they need to sell more BTC to have the same number of Dollar which push the price lower. and the price will continue lower and lower and lower and lower....... Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: CoinCidental on December 07, 2014, 04:24:25 AM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Miners are selling to pay for their hardware, maintenance and electricity; as the price goes down they need to sell more BTC to have the same number of Dollar which push the price lower. and the price will continue lower and lower and lower and lower....... Oho No it doesn't :) Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: picolo on December 07, 2014, 05:12:19 AM It seems like there are either fewer dumping whales right now or that they are not able to manipulate the market like they used to. Which is it? It is that the weak hands have all gone and the whales cant start a sell off because there are few willing to sell? Miners are selling to pay for their hardware, maintenance and electricity; as the price goes down they need to sell more BTC to have the same number of Dollar which push the price lower. and the price will continue lower and lower and lower and lower....... Oho No it doesn't :) People are buying the BTC that arrive on exchanges because there are many bulls and many new people that want BTC. If the price goes up miners don't have to sell as much BTC as before to buy new equipment or pay the maintenance costs so there are less BTC that will arrive on the exchange and the price will keep going up. Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: CoinCidental on December 07, 2014, 02:10:01 PM They're will be a hell of a lot more new infrastructure by the time the next block Reward halves so Bitcoins will have a lot more " spendability " and a lot more scarcity
This can only have a positive impact on the price going forward but I think they will get a few times more valuable even way before all that happens sometime in 2016.... Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: Bulletin on December 07, 2014, 04:32:42 PM If demand stays the same and growing, BTC can go up in price, just because mining difficulty is almost not rising anymore, there are not so muchfresh coins to sell.
Title: Re: Are the whales getting beaten? Post by: pattu1 on December 08, 2014, 01:07:02 AM The whale bears will be back at the next rally... until then they are lying low.
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