Bitcoin Forum

I had this idea today - and should probably try to develop it myself but that won't really happen.  So - anyway I'm just going to leave this here and see if anyone will run with it.

You know those CoinStar machines in supermarkets etc?  (in USA afaik)  They convert small change into USD for a fee of about 9% - most of them now also have the option to buy various gift cards for the full value of your change (Amazon, ITunes, various restaurants etc...)

What if someone set up a venture to sell btc this way??  It's irreversible once the customer prints out the voucher - so no worries about chargebacks etc.  You could either print out both the public and private keys on the voucher or some redemption code valid on Coinbase or Circle or some other yet to exist site.  This would never be a way to buy large amounts of btc (or even other alt coins) but pretty much everyone has at least $50 in change laying around and a good way to get people 'on the fence' involved.

Anyway - it strikes me as a good idea.  Feel free to discuss and develop it.  I really hope one day soon it's an option to convert my spare change into btc!

You mean like an ATM? They're out there:
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-atm-map/

Not really like an ATM at all - and based on that map the closest one to me is several hundred miles....   There is also a huge existing network of CoinStar machines - and I highly doubt these btc ATMs are going to accept a bucket of change either.  But thanks for the read and reply

i see what you mean -- literally a coinstar machine -- got you.

that would be crazy. it would also provide a purpose for that big ass water jug full of pennies at my in-laws house. i'd commandeer that sh!t quick-fast.

Yep - that's EXACTLY my point.  Hopefully someone with some business sense will run with this and make a little money while providing a service as well

I think it's a smart idea marhjan.  It would certainly get the bitcoin ideal in front of more people.  The only trouble I see with it is fiat price volatility.  People will likely choose a gift card payout that will maintain its fiat value for more than a few minutes.

Unfortunately, for now, people don't really understand the true value of bitcoin.

I love the idea! Someone make it happen and I would definitely use it

well i just sent them a message


ill update if I get a reply.

(message was sent to Outerwall Inc, their main company)

and before rebuttals start about that i did not explain bitcoin in all of its great ways.. the reality is that techno waffle doesnt work at first contact, especialy if its seems too sales-pitch 'pushy'. (subtlety works best)

the volatility is something drummed into you by media.. if you have not learned yet, coinbase, circle, bitpay don't care about volatility and neither do their merchants.

i do not see it as something that NEEDS to be released today, but to be thought about and to grow in the minds of outerwall inc, so that its ready for when bitcoin moves out of innovation phase and into mass adoption phase.

Seems like a decent idea - I'd definitely use it if I had a chance.  One trouble with using the existing coinstar network is I'm not sure if they're internet connected - anyone know the answer to this one?


I think CincyFan was saying that consumers will be too paranoid about volatility to put their money into bitcoin.  Not a coinbase etc. side issue.

Good idea.

My friend thinks the hopper would be $10,000+, but I think the idea would still be a great one.

Put the first location in SF.

I see this being far more important than Bitcoin ATM's.  

I will bring more people into Bitcoin which is just as powerful if not more so than huge sums of cash or one large vendor.

On the east coast at least there is a CoinStar in most grocery stores and Wal-Mart's already.  This for me is a central point of the play - no one really needs any major capital expense to start this up.  The network of machines exists - and I'm 99% sure they are internet connected.  I'm not sure if distributing private keys at the location is feasible or if some sort of redemption code would make it simpler.

But this would reduce one of the major barriers to entry for people wanting to 'dip their toe' into btc.  Anyway - glad to see people are liking the idea - I hope it happens

That's correct.  I was talking about volatility with regard to the consumers.  That being said, I still think it's a great idea.

i can think of several different ways to implementing it. with a variety of ways of being anonymous or being a simple solution for customers. hopefully i get a positive reply from coinstar and can get a little more detailed with options, methods, explanations

people wanting bitcoin to then instantly buy something is not the mindset of bitcoin 2014 (innovation stage) once bitcoin moves into the mass adoption stage the volatility would be smaller and more manageable so think long term picture. not just about today.

alot of people still think bitcoin will disappear in a couple months and get emotional about 1% fluctuations. relax people bitcoin is still like a toddler. screaming at its superiors and peers for attention, crying when it doesn't get what it wants and doesn't like being told what to do.

bitcoin has a long life ahead to grow up and become independent. so stop imagining the problems it will have running before its started to even walk

Even without internet the machine could print a dollar denominated voucher for Coinbase or a similar operator. The user would go to the website and be guided through setting up an account if he doesn't have one. His dollars would be converted to Bitcoin at the time he enters the voucher number on the site at the then current rate. Coinbase would collect dollars from CoinStar.

one thing im learning from the research im doing now is that coinstar do not pick up the coins and put it into their bank. instead the shop empties the machine and then puts it into the shops bank account. thus i think if i get a reply it would be something like the retailer has to offer a bitcoin exchange service to be able to offer it through their box. as the funds never really reach outerwall inc

That makes sense - there is really not much point in sending a truck around to pick up the change - the supermarket/Wal-Mart already has that happening - so yes some existing service would ideally be involved.  In the US either Coinbase or Circle spring to mind.  I suppose they might both have problems with AML/KYC type issues - and now that I think about it there's probably no viable way to get around those regulations in the United States.  But again I doubt that anyone using CoinStar to get some fraction of a btc will be all that concerned about strict anonymity.

ultra-low cost contributes to the payment function,but  the payment functions now is not reflected, more and more people hold the Bitcoin only used to store value

If the store deposits the coins to their bank account directly (or uses the coins as change at their registers) then the stores are likely paying coinstar some percentage of the revenue in exchange for the machine, or some kind of other franchise type arrangement. I would think in order for this to be potentially implemented that the individual stores would need to be on board to do this.

In a Bitcoin ATM thread two years ago:

I think this is a great idea! Make it with upper limit like $100, and no user information nedded. If this is the case, this will be the nest way I buy btc.

I wish this could be a software based fix and we can piggyback off of coinstar's existing infrastructure instead.

Join me with @Outerwall on twitter to request that they do the 'software update' on their coinstar and redbox kiosks - redbox sort've presents a small issue, unless they do a reverse model whereby with btc you are required to pay the full value of the media up-front and the service then sends the remaining bitcoin back to the originating address upon confirmation of the returned media.

Which is a simple RT of http://twitter.com/Frankenmint/status/524810515357249536

yes what a great idea.  also lets get the bottle redemption machines to print bitcoin qr codes as well.  and lets set up wallets for roadside beggars.  im sure their local dope dealers will accept their bitcoins as well.

Coinstar does not charge people 9% for changing USD -> USD, but they rather automate the process of converting large amounts of coins into a "format" that is spendable, as most banks will not accept large amounts of change/coin that is not "wrapped" by denomination.

The fact that a coinstar machine is expensive to produce as this kind of technology is not cheap (to count and sort coins deposited in mass) and needs to be audit-able will make it less likely that there will be a machine that converts change into bitcoin. Any operator would need to cover the costs of the machine plus some margin in converting their fiat into bitcoin

cool idea, doubt coinstar would do this type of integration until way down the road though.

Right - they charge people 9.8% for the service of converting loose change into a more spendable form of fiat.  However - you may also choose to convert to an Amazon or ITunes gift card as well as other options for ZERO fee (presumably in this case Amazon/Apple etc are paying CoinStar a somewhat reduced fee based on volume.)  So why couldn't Coinbase or Circle or???? do the same thing?  Now - you might be talking paying a 15% or so premium by the time you get the btc - something akin to going the Paypal to Virwox to btc route, but we're again talking about small amounts of btc for the loose change sitting in a jar or on your bedroom floor right now.

Anyway - I'm interested to see both the interest and the level of negativity that various users have about this.  Glad to at least inspire a bit of conversation at least

amazon and itunes offer a retailer a nice commission anyways (probably 10%) and due to the fact usually to activate the itunes / amazon cards costs retailers the labour at a stores cashier desk activating plastic cards. and ofcourse the physical cost of plastic cards and shipping/display, thus its cheaper to offer it via the coinstar box as it removes those costs. so with the savings they make by having a machine do it electronically and automatically plus getting commission from itunes/amazon, a retailer/coinstar can offer the amazon/itunes codes at zero fee from the box.

just like if coinstar had a way to do bitcoins. they will make their commission from the variations of the markets (like how some bitcoinATM's and circle pretend to be zero fee)

I could see a potential machine that would convert large amounts of lose change into bitcoin for a 15% fee. This would essentially be the same as converting change into cash then taking the cash and going to a BTC ATM that charges a 5% fee (which I would consider reasonable).

Another twist to your idea would be to open a BTC ATM near a coinstar machine that accepts both cash and a coinstar voucher (only vouchers from the neighboring machine). The ATM could validate and process the voucher instantly (and the ATM operator would likely have some kind of agreement with the operator of the coinstar machine

cool idea, hope someone can make it real, and i would like to try it!

Interesting, every bank I have asked in the last several years accepts loose change, but not wrapped change (it has been 10+ years since a bank has accepted wrapped change from me).  Most of them have their own coin counting machines and don't charge members to deposit the loose change.  One of them even told me they don't have a coin counting machine, but will count my change by hand for no charge (and will not accept wrapped coins, and I was a member).  We are only talking about 5+ banks here, but with 100% consistency, they accept loose change and not wrapped change, so either I live in the twilight zone, or Coinstar is for the unbanked and uninformed.

Whether it's a loose change or banknotes it's still the official currency. Banks cannot refuse or charge you for processing loose change transactions.
Not 100% sure on this one, but think that even a private business cannot refuse to accept loose change payments (may be different laws in different countries).


It's about location and convenience. If you have a coinstar machine in your local shop, you wouldn't want to make an extra trip to the bank.

I have had the opposite experience. I have worked as a teller for a relatively small bank who would generally not accept large amounts of lose change (especially if it was unsorted), however would accept wrapped coins (we would write the customer's account number on the wrap in the event there was an issue discovered later on). As a customer of a number of large banks, I would see the same policy of not accepting unwrapped change, and when I attempted to deposit unwrapped change, I would be given coin rollers for me to wrap myself. I don't remember the name of the bank but it was a predecessor to capital one, that had a machine similar to coinstar in their branch for coin deposits; it would give you a voucher that you cold cash with a teller for everyone for free up to (I think it was) $15, and any amount over that amount you would need to either be a customer or pay (I think it was) 5% to the bank in exchange for using their machine.

How long ago are these experiences?  Key to my post was the fact that it has been 10+ years since banks accepted wrapped coins from me.  That is to say they used to.  Maybe I should have said 5+ years to be conservative, but I think it really has been 10+.  Regardless, the same bank that used to give me wrappers for free and accept wrapped coins later on made me unwrap the coins so they could count them.  The bank that offered to hand count coins was actually downtown in a 100K+ resident city.  They specifically said they would count in their free time and included the caveat that it could take days, but didn't want the coins wrapped.  Every other bank I have been to has counted coins for free for members with a machine.  Contrary to your experience, I have never seen a coin counting machine with customer access in a bank.  That having been said, while I may not have made it perfectly clear when I said "coinstar is for the unbanked," in all cases, I was referring to services for bank customers/members.  While it isn't too terribly relevant, I would guess that the bank you are referring to that counted up to $15 for free for non-members stopped doing that a long time ago, too, based on the service decline at most banks large and small.

Brilliant idea you have here. I hope you'll get more support soon.

Great idea, it really is.
Factoring in the volatility of the price would be iffy but definitively do-able.

All were within the last 10 years. Doing some research about the banks that Capital One purchased, I believe the coin counting machine was inside a Chevy Chase bank branch. The reason why the customer's account number would be written on the side of a wrapper when they would deposit wrapped coins is to prevent having to use the labor to count the deposited coins right away; in the event that it turns out that a wrapper was short then we could debit their account (I don't think we ever actually had that issue).

I would say that the reason why people could have up to $15 counted at the branch for free was to get people to come into the branch, have their coins counted, and then need to speak to a teller so they could attempt to sell them a banking product. You should really understand that $15 is not a lot of change, and if the amount being changed was even a penny more they would need to pay the fee or open an account, which would be another selling point for opening an account.

I completely understand this, but I've been to banks that won't sell me a cashier's check because I'm not a member.  Issuing a cashier's check doesn't take any more labor than providing cash for a voucher, and most banks even charge members for the service, so there would theoretically be income involved in providing it to non-members, yet the service is refused.  I guess we just deal with a completely different set of banks.  Maybe service varies like this by city or state for some reason.  Regardless, I think we've veered off-topic here for long enough.

I was looking for CoinStar machines all over the place when I visited the US last year, but I just couldn't find any. Ended up just going to the bank to get my coins exchanged for notes. If they were more widespread, that would be a very nice utility.

I would imagine that the commission that retail stores get for activating gift cards is much less then 10%, maybe 5% at most, but more likely to be slightly above the cost of processing a credit card transaction.

In regards to the OP's suggestion, I would say that it would be possible however it would need to also accept cash bills as well (and likely offer a better rates with the bills). If the machine did not accept bills then the amount of bitcoin that could be purchased would be very small and few people would likely want to buy it this way

That's a great idea. It would be really cool if you could use Coinstar machines to convert your coins into Bitcoin, and it could just generate a QR code for you.

So basically, you want a Bitcoin ATM.

I know it has nothing to do with Coinstar, but I saw this earlier today and was thinking of it while reading this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l2du0/lawnmowerio_turn_your_spare_change_into/

Well most ATMs will not accept any kind of change (only bills). Massive amounts of change are not quite as fungible as paper bills are as change cannot easily be converted into other fiat without either putting a modest amount of effort into it or incurring some level of cost.

Sorry to necrothread, but whatever.

Lesson here, eventually nearly all financial services will be impacted by Bitcoin.

Coinstar machines will start selling Bitcoin at the grocery store
- https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/17/bitcoin-coinstar-coinme

Don't know how mods will react to this, but I second you on this.
What you did was good, but what the OP proposed was great as their dream turned out to reality. This is an example of how one can achieve anything even if they've got nothing but super strong will power to turn the tables and make their dreams come true. It was just a proposal 4 years back, and it's now an act that is going to take place very soon and let the Shoppers buy BTC through the supermarkets without any hurdles - this is what will drag us towards the mainstream - this is the power of a dream.

You're totally fine, it's relevant to the thread & and a great update.
I truly didn't expect this to happen from Coinstar itself but I'm so glad it did. OP should probably throw his BTC address out there just incase Coinstar wants to pay it forward (in case the the idea for it was received in this way by them)

 ::)

Shit in one hand and wish in the other.  The idea wasn't exactly groundbreaking...

I'm glad I didn't go through with building a machine like this.  I knew it was a bad idea because the switch over for that industry was too simple/profitable.

Lol hey, it's worth a shot. I know it 99.999999*% won't happen though.

I agree w/ your second sentiment though. If another company starting something like this up, it wouldn't have been difficult for Coinstar to leverage it's existent machine/traffic & overtake the competition.

literally a coinstar machine...that would be crazy..

I was moderately excited when I recently read this news a week or two ago and decided to look into it further to see where and how long it might be before one of these popped up locally for me.

So I read the article linked above, and followed an internal link in the article to a "Coinstar Bitcoin Locator Tool" (which proved to be fruitless and a waste of time) and they both seem to say that you will need to use paper money at these Coinstar kiosks to buy BTC. So unless I am missing something here, it really is just another BTC ATM (with the associated high fees) and not a place where I can dump in my bottles of spare change for direct conversion into BTC.

I suppose you can maybe convert coins into cash and then cash into crypto in a two step process, but no doubt there will be two sets of fees for each conversion.  I can reluctantly deal with one high transaction fee, but two??   :(    My pennies might be better served to just continue sitting in the water bottle.