Bitcoin Forum

I hold both currently, but what one will have the most success?

Is this a joke? Give me a reason why you think NEM will be anywhere as successful as NXT?

This was an unnecessary burden of proof.  If you actually ever bothered to read the NEM thread since March, you would find that it is a proprietary innovator and I think they have very good public relations.   

 I think OP created this thread with the intent that serious replies would emerge, even though the "A or B" does tend to attract replies like the one you wrote.

 I'm sure you could retort but on the latter but I don't think NXT is any successful in its' external image.  When you have someone like Jeff Garzik, a Bitcoin developer, who labelled NXT a scam - how do you recover from that?   I'm ignoring all the thefts and hacks, initial distribution, Cointropolis, a lot of the assets on the asset exchange being questionable, et cetera.

If they fight for CMC place #1 and #2 then I am pretty successful  ;D

I think on BCT NEM wins because NXT users have their own active forum.

The numbers, innovations and activity speaks for NXT.

I currently hold neither, but like following the projects.

I hope you do realize that without NXT, NEM would have never existed. The whole concept of NEM was to improve on NXT's distribution, by offering stakes of the initial supply freely to BitcoinTalk users. In fact in it's initial stages NEM was supposed to be a direct fork of NXT.

It was not until new developers came into the fray that NEM was being with its own code base and even now, close to 10 months after it was intially made public, NEM still only offers basic functionality, that being the ability to send transactions back and forth and to send messages via transactions, both which NXT easily accomplishes.

Secondly the majority, if not all, investors into NEM are those who are hoping for it to become the next NXT (which of course will never happen). The two type of investors into NEM are investors who missed out on NXT, and NXT early-adopters who are looking to become NEM whales.

So to conclude if NXT was never created neither would NEM. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

neither will succeed. only bitcoin succeeds. the rest are schemes designed to get bitcoin.

After all the attacks on Qora. NXT are going to find out what a REAL bunch of assholes are like compared to Qora. Let the games begin.


Ladies and Gentlemen I give you the New Assoles On the Block. NEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZBc0ncWEZk

I am a big supporter of NXT and I will always champion them

They helped me with a lot of technical issues when I was putting out my first coin

They are at the pinnacle of the crypto game. in more ways than one

I do very much like NXT, but NEM has a few advantages (although minor) that i like, such as in the messaging and faster block times, etc, but alot of it is very similar to NXT.

Define "success", please.

Do I really need to quote Gandhi?..

Adoption, acceptance.

nxt will be the most successful,so now go buy and hold nxt :)

Is Nem has a new source code ?

Yes. That's why it's been so long in gestation. I think it was originally going to be a NXT clone but it changed direction.

Whatever NEM claimed. But for sure, Nem is a clone of NXT.
NEM may reconstruct the code of NXT, but it doesn't mean it is new code.

People calling it a clone need to put the idea to rest.  At one time it was going to be a clone, but since then has been rewritten from the ground up with a new vision.  

The NCC has already been open sourced pre-launch for quite a while.  Many people have looked at it, even some that worked on NXT and as far as I know, nobody has said they were similar.  

Of course we don't know for sure until the final source code is released for the NIS and people examine it.  But one thing is for sure, NEM has something completely different than NXT's PoS, it is called PoI and is quite a bit more complicated.  I have tested it on the Beta so I can see how my chance at making a block goes up and down and not just accordingly to how much NEM I have at the moment.  

NEM already has variable fees that are fair (NXT still hasn't implemented that yet).

Also, NEM has a wallet file on the computer, paper wallets, and will someday have a generator that will create a seed from a passphrase (this has already been done and proved in theory in an alpha version but since the code and algo has changed on the beta, the generator needs to be re-written).  These examples of the wallet is handled is a HUGE difference between NXT and NEM and fundamentally means the code at some point must be very different.  

There are many other differences too like remote harvesting and the fact that a NEM node is like 10 times easier to make official and broadcast the node's hallmark to the network than the NXT node.  For all these reasons and much more, I am pretty sure it is a new code from the ground up.  There are quite a few things that substantially differentiate it from NXT already and this is pre-genesis.  In the coming months as NEM matures, I expect it to elvolve even more.

That said, while NEM has already made quite a few things that NXT doesn't have, as a whole NXT has way more than NEM does right now and is currently the superior tech for sure.  But that is to be expected, NXT is NEM's big brother that is much older.  Technically NEM hasn't even been born yet and NXT is having its first birthday.  In 10 years when both have been around for a long time, it will be really interesting to see how each develops.  

Actually, this is a disadvantage - a novel Proof-of-X that wasn't tested in the wild nor publicly peer-reviewed. People think that they can add anything to "Proof-of-" and get a new way of securing a blockchain.

A scarce resource must be put into the base of any Proof-of-Resource because it's the only (known) way to counteract Sybil attacks in a decentralized system. In Proof-of-Work it's hardware that do hash computations. In Proof-of-Stake it's coins (effective balance). This is the first important point.

The second important point is "insularity*" of the system. Bitcoin is not isolated, at any moment someone could come out of the blue with pockets full of ASICs and do a 51% attack. Nxt is isolated, new coins can't be created, this protect Nxt against 51% attacks of the "outer" world.

Note that Proof-of-Stake principles may vary. Peercoin's PoS uses coin-age, this allowed (not sure if it's still actual) to wait several months to collect enough "power" and attempt an attack, this is why time component was capped at some value. In Nxt this flaw was removed by removing time from the equation completely. Time is not a scarce resource, we have plenty of it (let's not "fork" to a philosophical discussion).

There may be other important points but I can't recall them now. Regarding the topic of this thread - Nxt conform to both the points perfectly, only scarce resource is used and it's isolated. If NEM will be successful depends on how "strong" its technology is. Even with perfect marketing it may be killed by someone like Luke-Jr if a vulnerability is found.
is a red flag. NEM's forging algorithm should be reviewed as soon as possible. Without such a review "Will NXT or NEM be the most successful?" doesn't make much sense because we can only guess if NEM is capable to survive the first months of its existence in the wild. We already have an example of a coin that used a novel Proof-of-X algorithm and now is traded below the initial price because of problems related to flaws of that algorithm.

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* - this may be an incorrect word, I wanted to use a word that shows if a system is isolated

I don't necessarily see how such a system is worse than one like NXT where people put $150 back in October, got 50 million NXT ($millions) and has been collecting almost all the foraging fees for themselves ever since. 

Many people have hundreds of thousands and millions of NXT and complain they can't even forge anything because the whales are eating all the forging fees.  How is that fair?  Rich get Richer?!

You know NEM must be something good when a get quick rich 50 million NXT whale like CfB is against it.   ;)


Maybe someone should test NEM alpha with 200 million NEM (equivalent of 50 million NXT) and see how much less CfB would get if he switched NXT to PoI  ;D  Would CfB have to sell the mansion and the sports car?  Maybe..

Red flag is that not only coins are used as the resource for Proof-of-Resource.



You still wasting your time spreading lies that can't be backed, UtopianFuture? Failures like https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=808160.msg9058509#msg9058509 didn't teach you anything...

I saw that link  on the NXT forum and it looked convincing at the time.

Now for the post on here.

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,1268.150.html
No lie there.  I choose an older link as it should demonstrate to you that the water was simmering before it went to a boil.  NXT capitalization went down from a variety of things but a lot of it had to do with the initial distribution and the almost absent returns on staking.


As well I'm not UF.  Don't live in the same country as him.  He used to post all the time on the NXT forums.  Everyone knows I live out in the rurals and nobody would host a VPN on a mobile data carrier plan.  Text analysis is crap and people ran the same analysis and thought I was CfA, BlueMeanie and other people.  People ran text analysis on Satoshi and think he's 30 different people including obscure academics from other continents.

As well why would it matter if I was UF?  UF isn't getting a refund for that $300K he gave them, nor his organizer compensation and he was subjected to the same taint analysis as everybody else.  Only reason people thought I was UF as I was the only one defending him.   Which is only 50% true, I was actually just rallying to the flag (back then I didn't really know much about the NEM developers.  Most of the attention back then was UF and when UF was on the way out, it was a lot of confusion).

Now in retrospect I think it's good that UF left as he was always pushing to release NEM early and probably would have had his way.  Makoto1337 is more patient than UF.  NEM community today feels very decentralized and vibrant as it is no longer just one domineering personality dominating everything.  

People suspected your were UF. https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/10'000-nxt-for-speech-analysis/ just proved that mathematically.

Now, back to the topic.

Not really, just count the respondents on that thread and the majority don't think I am UF.     The IP information doesn't confirm it and nobody would host a VPN out in the rurals on a smartphone data plan.  There's been people who think I am "insert name" too.

The text analysis stuff is something that can probably be gamed and it has been many times - look at the people who "analyzed Satoshi" and think he's 30 different people.

It's not that hard to trick people, but you can't trick math. If that text analysis was gamed then show which part of it was incorrect.

This is a burden of proof and I'm not interested in addressing a fallacy as I am not him.  This is just like the people who think Satoshi is Hal Finney, Nick S and all these other people based on some text analysis they ran.
.

Proof was already presented in the form of description of the method, stripped texts of BitcoinTalk users (including TaunSew and UtopianFuture) and software together with the result of the analysis.

I am still going to stand by what I said in that PoI is more complicated that NXT's PoS.  I might not have been clear, but I was trying to say the writing for the code is more complicated.  As BCNext explained well, NXT's PoS means that each coin is like a little miner.  Now.... I don't know anything about code, but it seems like it would be much easier to code that then something like PoI which has multiple variables.  When I wrote the post originally I was just trying to speak to the fact that NEM isn't a clone and was trying to give examples of how the code could be different.

Now that said, I agree with much of what you said.  As of now the NEM test net has been going for a couple of months, so I think they devs are hopefully thinking about some of the things you mentioned.  If a weakness is found that is devastating. 

And yes NEM needs to have its code opened up and reviewed, not just the PoI, but all of it.  All coins need this, especially ones with novel proof-of-x.  I would personally like it if you reviewed NEM's code.  I know that the devs of NEM were looking at the code of NXT when it first came out, I think it would be really cool if you looked at the code of NEM when it first comes out.  I am completely sure you can have valuable input being you have been thinking about this kind of thing loooooong before NXT came out.  And to that point, I can't really argue with your points above about what makes a proof-of-x strong or weak.  I am sure you know way more about it than I do.

Also, I think the whole "Will NXT or NEM be more successful?" debate is far too premature.  NEM hasn't even had its Genesis yet.  Lets get a live blockchain and an open code and then come back to the discussion.  NEM needs to have its genesis and open its code to be respectable.   I think the devs know this and I have heard them mention things to the extent so I really hope it happens. 

Right now money needs to be on NXT - still many many things that could go wrong with NEM.

I hope both do wonderful, but, let's find out!