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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: kingcolex on October 23, 2014, 12:28:25 PM



Title: Deleted
Post by: kingcolex on October 23, 2014, 12:28:25 PM
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Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: madmat on October 23, 2014, 02:38:14 PM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

A private key is 256bits long. You don't need 25GBytes of storage to store it. A sheet of paper and a pen are all you need.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Spendulus on October 23, 2014, 04:45:16 PM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

A private key is 256bits long. You don't need 25GBytes of storage to store it. A sheet of paper and a pen are all you need.
Sheets of paper deteriate and are easily vulnerable to the elements, these are a bit more resilient and this is a way to digitally back up any of your bitcoin needs.
Emboss the 256bit number on a strip of stainless steel using a tapewriter.  End of Problem.

No need for computer or digital storage for a simple 64 place hexadecimal number.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Beliathon on October 24, 2014, 01:59:26 AM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

A private key is 256bits long. You don't need 25GBytes of storage to store it. A sheet of paper and a pen are all you need.
Sheets of paper deteriate and are easily vulnerable to the elements, these are a bit more resilient and this is a way to digitally back up any of your bitcoin needs.
Emboss the 256bit number on a strip of stainless steel using a tapewriter.  End of Problem.

No need for computer or digital storage for a simple 64 place hexadecimal number.
Lip tattoo the QR-code, prison-style

http://women-tattoo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Fixation%E2%80%9D-Inner-Lip-Tattoo.jpg


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: QuantumQrack on October 24, 2014, 04:17:59 AM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

Very cool!  Thanks for your post!


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: QuantumQrack on October 24, 2014, 04:48:39 AM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

A private key is 256bits long. You don't need 25GBytes of storage to store it. A sheet of paper and a pen are all you need.
Sheets of paper deteriate and are easily vulnerable to the elements, these are a bit more resilient and this is a way to digitally back up any of your bitcoin needs.
Emboss the 256bit number on a strip of stainless steel using a tapewriter.  End of Problem.

No need for computer or digital storage for a simple 64 place hexadecimal number.

Wow, great idea here too.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Q7 on October 24, 2014, 10:00:16 AM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

A private key is 256bits long. You don't need 25GBytes of storage to store it. A sheet of paper and a pen are all you need.
Sheets of paper deteriate and are easily vulnerable to the elements, these are a bit more resilient and this is a way to digitally back up any of your bitcoin needs.
Emboss the 256bit number on a strip of stainless steel using a tapewriter.  End of Problem.

No need for computer or digital storage for a simple 64 place hexadecimal number.

Why i like some simple and yet applicable approach. Sometimes a bunch of wording like for example the seeds from electrum may not mean anything to a person even if they found out about it. Have it embossed on arts and pictures or even steel plates that lasts very long so that way they wont even suspect anything. they might just thought it is just part of other things not related to bitcoin.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: farjia on October 24, 2014, 10:18:08 AM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

A private key is 256bits long. You don't need 25GBytes of storage to store it. A sheet of paper and a pen are all you need.
Sheets of paper deteriate and are easily vulnerable to the elements, these are a bit more resilient and this is a way to digitally back up any of your bitcoin needs.
Emboss the 256bit number on a strip of stainless steel using a tapewriter.  End of Problem.

No need for computer or digital storage for a simple 64 place hexadecimal number.

Why i like some simple and yet applicable approach. Sometimes a bunch of wording like for example the seeds from electrum may not mean anything to a person even if they found out about it. Have it embossed on arts and pictures or even steel plates that lasts very long so that way they wont even suspect anything. they might just thought it is just part of other things not related to bitcoin.

Ha.. very clever idea but people who visit the house might ask why you have written random 12 words on this painting? :D


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: sandykho47 on October 24, 2014, 12:32:14 PM
AH, but mDisc is very expensive & you need special hardware to write any files to mDisc
But, you can store your other precious files together with your bitcoin cold storage & maybe some video games files  ;D


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: mistercoin on October 24, 2014, 02:01:14 PM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

Lololol, 'proven' for 1,000 years? I somehow highly doubt they can 'guarantee' 1000 years...


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: LiteCoinGuy on October 24, 2014, 03:54:26 PM
just use different ways to store your walletS and encrypt all.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: bitsmichel on October 24, 2014, 04:09:18 PM
Well there is an vulnerability with USB drives as we have found out and disc only have a lifespan of about ten years.

Although I saw something today that might just be the best for digital storage of a wallet.

mdisc

http://www.mdisc.com/

1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

They are more durable then regular disc and can take a beating but just still can't be bent in half without snapping, there isn't much more you can ask for in a long term disc. This seems to be perfect for people wanting to people their wallet data or private keys on a disc.

You could write your private key on a piece of paper, this can last longer than ten years.  The private key is not that large so you do not need an entire disc to store it.
A private key is 256bits long and 256 really is not that large and you could even convert it to a shorter hexadecimal number of 64 characters.  ;)


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Meuh6879 on October 24, 2014, 04:21:26 PM
1000 year rated dvd's where the files are written to "stone" and it will play in most drives where as the blue ray disc will play in all, better yet they aren't that expensive.

buy a dremel and drill on stainless steel plate.

stop invent dumb system to store a key ... http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Stainless-Steel-Bitcoin-Wallet/


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: oscarg on October 25, 2014, 05:36:42 PM
The Dremel/Chromium thing is cool,

But I would go lower tech than that if I wanted it to last 100 Years..

Use the paper backup from Armory, that will (should) always work.

Use a Credit Card Size Plaque made of Stainless Steel.

Punch The number set in using an Alphabetic Punch Set
like This;
http://www.sunsetcrystals.com.au/metal-punch-stamping-sets-4mm/
http://www.sunsetcrystals.com.au/images/P/uppercase%20basic%20stamp%20set%20-%204mm-2.jpg

Nail it to the underside of your house, or somewhere that no one is going to be passing regularly.
Make it somewhere you could easily describe to someone, like if you are in an ambulance.

Possibly make a wooden sleeve for it, so its not obvious, or possibly fold in half, so it can't be read by just glancing at it.

The code requires no password, so take care where you put it.

You could cryptically remove or reorganise, but to me, thats asking for trouble.

And obviously TEST THE RESTORE before putting it away and forgetting it.

 8)







Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: yayayo on October 25, 2014, 07:04:07 PM
The disc might have a 1000 year life span - but will there be a device available to read it, 1000 years from now (or even 100 years )?

Engrave the keys into gold and it'll last 10000 years easily. Probably longer than Bitcoin will exist.

Or just spend all your coins now, so you won't have to worry about storage anymore... ;)

ya.ya.yo!


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: NEM minnow on October 25, 2014, 07:25:30 PM
Just laminate the paper wallet.  That will last hundreds of years.  That plastic will more than preserve the paper. 


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: azguard on October 27, 2014, 06:40:12 AM
any disk is not good thing easy to scrape
paper is always good but can be lost or something else.
Laminating is good choice always, but engraving to some gold or something else is bad. You may sell that engraved gold later cuz you need cash  ;D

anyway to many ways to preserve something you can always dig hole and put coffin in hole and make treasure map.  :D


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: cbeast on October 27, 2014, 06:43:52 AM
http://www.nuclead.com/images/clbullet_420x280.jpg
Engrave them into these. If someone wants to take them from you, then just give it to them.  ;D


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: opossum on October 28, 2014, 05:26:19 AM
http://www.nuclead.com/images/clbullet_420x280.jpg
Engrave them into these. If someone wants to take them from you, then just give it to them.  ;D
This would not work very well. Although it would stop an attack from gaining access to your private keys, it would also prevent you have having access to them as well, which defeats the point.

Your ideal solution would be something that cannot be easily destroyed and that cannot easily be 'hacked' by an attacker


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Lauda on October 28, 2014, 05:37:55 AM
Well even though this is a neat thing that I did not know about, it is not the best way to store your wallet.
I'll still say that the best thing (or better) that you could do is engrave the private key onto a piece of steel or something similar. The proceed by smashing up your wall/floor putting it inside and fixing it back up.  :)


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Goldmundo on October 28, 2014, 05:52:53 AM
A thousand years. I wouldn't be able to access the content of a BR disc even today, let alone in 1000 years when I'm all wrinkled and senile. :D


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: cbeast on October 28, 2014, 06:00:20 AM
http://www.nuclead.com/images/clbullet_420x280.jpg
Engrave them into these. If someone wants to take them from you, then just give it to them.  ;D
This would not work very well. Although it would stop an attack from gaining access to your private keys, it would also prevent you have having access to them as well, which defeats the point.

Your ideal solution would be something that cannot be easily destroyed and that cannot easily be 'hacked' by an attacker
Keep a backup magazine.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: azguard on October 28, 2014, 10:28:25 AM
http://www.nuclead.com/images/clbullet_420x280.jpg
Engrave them into these. If someone wants to take them from you, then just give it to them.  ;D
This would not work very well. Although it would stop an attack from gaining access to your private keys, it would also prevent you have having access to them as well, which defeats the point.

Your ideal solution would be something that cannot be easily destroyed and that cannot easily be 'hacked' by an attacker
Keep a backup magazine.

You will have to engrave twice on loaded and backup magazine.

PS Hope you dont have load off ammo  ;D


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Elwar on October 28, 2014, 10:32:25 AM
I think I will try this.

If, in 1000 years, I cannot get my bitcoins...I am coming after you OP.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: funtotry on October 28, 2014, 11:00:22 AM
I think I will try this.

If, in 1000 years, I cannot get my bitcoins...I am coming after you OP.
This is exactly why the OP is not relevant to users needing to protect their private keys. 1,000 years is much longer then the necessary lifespan of your wallet backups.

IMO it is a necessary practice to periodically test your backups to make sure you are still able to access all of your private keys, and at such time you can replace the media that you are using to backup your wallets. If you simply make a backup and forget about it for even one year then you will have the possibility that you will not have access to your money, but you would be operating under the assumption that you did the entire time


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: Eisenhower34 on October 29, 2014, 07:35:59 AM
I think I will try this.

If, in 1000 years, I cannot get my bitcoins...I am coming after you OP.
This is exactly why the OP is not relevant to users needing to protect their private keys. 1,000 years is much longer then the necessary lifespan of your wallet backups.

IMO it is a necessary practice to periodically test your backups to make sure you are still able to access all of your private keys, and at such time you can replace the media that you are using to backup your wallets. If you simply make a backup and forget about it for even one year then you will have the possibility that you will not have access to your money, but you would be operating under the assumption that you did the entire time
I would agree with this. If you are trying to find something that can store your private keys safely for a thousand years then you are doing it incorrectly.

If you are not testing your backups (and re-backing up when you run these tests) then you are running the risk that your backups are corrupted and you could end up agreeing to spend money that you don't have access to


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: franky1 on October 29, 2014, 07:45:19 AM
proven to last 1000 years..

so back in the year 1014 (52 years before the battle of hastings) someone invented a stone based circular disk that could be read in DVD players..............

hmmmmmmm

well i can bend a disk and snap the thin layer of slate in the middle.. takes only 2 seconds....

i wonder if M-Disk will guarantee the value of the contents if lost., id love to see my claim if i lost my bitcoin priv keys due to cracking the stone layer

i bet the manufacturer spent years banging his head against a brick wall for a permanent solution to data storage..

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--KAPpCQyo--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/19gnxd2ca1h24gif.gif

yea kinda permanent, but definitely not indestructible


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: sgk on October 29, 2014, 07:51:53 AM
Aren't USB devices much better than discs?

Discs tend to scratch often and lose data. While you can store data on USB drives for much longer and you can keep transferring data to newer USB devices every 10 years or so.


Title: Re: Best cold storage (digital) found? 1000 year lifespan dvd's and blu ray
Post by: madmat on October 29, 2014, 07:56:27 AM
Aren't USB devices much better than discs?

Discs tend to scratch often and lose data. While you can store data on USB drives for much longer and you can keep transferring data to newer USB devices every 10 years or so.

Any support could be damaged, paper, usb drive, disc... So you need to make backups, to place them safely in different places and to check the state of the backup support regularly.