Bitcoin Forum

If Bitcoin is going to take off, you've got to use it.  I just talked to a customer service guy at Newegg.  He said 'hardly anyone' pays with bitcoin.  He said he's only dealt with two orders done in Bitcoin. 

If you've got bitcoin, go spend some buying cool shit at Newegg or Overstock.  The whole thing will fall apart if Merchants start seeing it as a waste of time. 

Don't wait, buy some shit today!  What are you - an idiot?

No the idiot is you who thinks that trading bitcoins for shit you don't really need will support the price.

99.9% of the time, paying with bitcoin goes through a payment processor such as bitpay, bitpay instantly sells your bitcoins for FIAT hence putting sell pressure on the market. So basically if people take your advice right now and start buying products with bitcoins, the price will fall.

unlike credit cards that have large equipment costs or subscription costs.. accepting bitcoin is cheap and free of contracts, thus even if they dont see customers use it for months, the business can still offer bitcoins without any worry about costs...

so are you an idiot??

If nobody uses Bitcoins for transactions, interest in Bitcoin will decline. Without transactions, Bitcoin is a penny stock with no assets behind it.

Yes of course. 99,9% of store which accepts bitcoin for payment converted instantly bitcoin to fiat and with this they exercise much pressure to market.

No that is a myth.

The reason the BTC price is falling is that miners are selling immediately, and not hoarding.

newegg do not sell groceries or consumables that need purchasing every week. they know that their business model is such that peopl will only buy a TV/computer once every 4 years.

their business model is not based on repeat business everyweek.

newegg, overstock dont really care about repeat business of large goods and all negative points raised about bitcoins usability have nothing to do with raising the market price nor raising merchants desires to continue accepting bitcoin.

for instance overstock CEO see's the real benefits of bitcoin and is not worried about any negative crap said in this topic, he see's the bigger long term picture

The usefulness of Bitcoin in retail transaction, is doubtful at best. I don't see any benefit in using Bitcoin in a domestic retail transaction, other than for some reason you need to be anonymous when buying a legal product.

The true power of Bitcoin is in a international cross-border transaction:
* US credit cards/banks bans online Casinos? no problem, we could fund gambling account using Bitcoin.
* darknet transactions
* open bazaar style markets
* international remittance
* true global commodity/stock market

Also the Bitcoin blockchain is useful for a variety of other applications.

I never claimed it was the primary reason for the falling price.

Newegg don't have a discount. If BTC had discount of even 5%, then usage would have improved, I believe.

thats a myth too.. miners are not selling out instantly. most of the exchange markets are not doin much FIAT bank transfers in comparison to daily trade volume..

well over 90% of price movements is done by bots/daytraders who play with the prices, without withdrawing/depositing

who owns bitcoin? who has a credit card?

could be the solution  ;)

you should learn more about bitcoin...idiot  :P



but if you want to support bitcoin, its actually possible to spent AND to safe bitcoin at the same time - amazing  :D !

The miners are suppose to sell, there job is to mine not to hord. No Gold miners is hording gold, they sell it instantly.

I'm hoarding my coins at the moment, if that helps.... you know, all 2 of them  ;D     .....I really should sell though  :-X

No, it really won't.

At this stage in the game there is no plausible scenario where "the whole thing falls apart". Sorry your get rich quick scheme is taking longer than you hoped. No wait, I'm not sorry at all. Grow up and Fuck off.

Wow, there's more aggression and name calling in this forum than most Linux forums I've visited....and that's saying something. LOL  ;D

I agree with OP about spending more bitcoin to get the bitcoin economy going, but buying stuff with coins we are holding is not going to help. We need to buy bitcoin from exchanges first, then use those coins to buy stuff.

It's not as cut and dry as that.

Once the smart contracts come into play and even your grandmother has to register her car online through the blockchain by paying with Bitcoins, that's when things will really get real. You have to look at the big picture. Blockchain was created with Bitcoin(p2p payment system) and once the network was large enough and stable, add the smart contracts. Bitcoin is the payment system for the smart contracts using the blockchain. That's been the plan since 1994, it hasn't changed, it's all documented in great detail through the entire process.

So that means he's only dealt with two customers who need service. Last I checked, Newegg processes orders without any customer-to-employee contact, by default.

I'm using Bitpay and Im not cashing it all out. My BTC goes into cold storage and at the end of the week I reconcile my bills and cash out only whats needed to cover those bills. Any BTC left over I keep! So, its not instant by any means, although I could set it up as such.

I also mine BTC and Im not cashing them out either.

Idiots for not spending? Ignoring the unwarranted namecalling, a probable reason people aren't spending Bitcoins is because it's not as easy to get into for the lay man. Once Bitcoin is as accessible as say, a credit card in the US, then there will be uptake. Remember, Bitcoin is still a young technology.

I'm with OP here. Many (I won't even say most, because that might be stretching it) of us want to see bitxoin succeed. The way to do that is to demand to be able to spend the things. Who cares if the merchant converts to fiat afterwards? Give them enough transactions, maybe they'll start accepting it directly and cut out the coinbase/bitpay middleman. And who knows, maybe someone in their supply chain accepts it. All of a sudden, there's real transacting occurring.

Or is that not good enough, because the supply chain company will also convert to fiat?  

If you're waiting for a full, closed Bitcoin economy to blossom before you consider spending you coin, then that economy will never get here. You want vendors to accept it, you need to start offering it to them. Only then will it start bubbling through the wider Economy.

If you're not spending because you want to preserve your Bitcoin, simple - rebuy the Bitcoin you just spent. You end up with the same BTC you had before, you neutralize the effect of the vendor converting to fiat, and you increase their BTC denominated sales volume. That last part, especially for publicly traded companies, is something that get reported. Then other companies notice. Then analysts report it, and more people start hearing About it.

Or is the 1% transaction fee that you'll save by not having to rebuy an equivalent amount of BTC worth more to you than the appreciation you hope for when Bitcoin becomes a wider used currency?

It has to start somewhere, but it won't start anywhere until you start spending, rather than hoarding (I'm sorry, "hodling") yours while you tout its superiority to fiat currencies and wait for others to spend.

tl;dr Spend at a loss!

No thanks;fuck off.

funny, because I ordered and payed with btc one GTX 970 few days ago.

Bitcoin is only useful for illegal activity atm and it's not even great fot that! Btc us a shit coin and always will be. Can the real cryptos please step up

if bitcoin is so crap then please donate all your bitcoins to seans outpost or another worthwhile service. and go play on the altcoin sub forum. as for bitcoins usefulness, it covers atleast 100,000 legit merchants right now, but your assumption that its only useable for drugs might be more revealing of your personal spending habits, than the spending habits of others

No, I am not. You are. You are a fucking idiot. If you want to pay more or have a shity return policy, go ahead and pay with bitcoin on Newegg or Overstock.

I think the point that you are missing is that transacting in bitcoin is generally more cost efficient then transacting with the traditional fiat based banking system (especially credit cards). As more of the economy adopts to bitcoin they will realize these cost savings, which will cause more of the economy to use bitcoin, and this positive feedback loop will continue

might be more effective to do give aways. they would have to be face to face transactions (nobody to trust in this forum) and small amounts. you'd have to actually invest more time than money here because you would prolly need to walk your new friend through the basic stuff, wallets security etc.
I would rather (and have actually) give away 1 btc split amongst 10 friends to introduce them to the economy in a small but tangible way than waste 1 btc on some garbage I neither want nor need from New Egg.

If you are ready to stand by your convictions, which I will take as not entirely self serving, you will agree and distribute what you can in the name of fostering awareness.

The key for us consumers is to be spending bitcoins where we can, but then replenish our bitcoins by purchasing a similar amount so that we don't put net selling pressure on the price of bitcoin. Then the merchants see the interest without any harm done.

But the real key is for merchants who are enjoying the substantial benefits of bitcoin (no credit card fees, no credit card fraud/chargebacks, counterfeiting, forged and bounced checks and so forth) to get serious and start offering some fixed discounts for people buying with bitcoin. I figure a 5% discount would be reasonable for them, and would match or beat any rewards people get from using rewards credit card programs.

For example, I get 2% cash towards my children's education fund with my main credit card, 3% off restaurant, gas and hotel spending with a 2nd credit card, and 5% off a "special deal" that changes quarterly with my 3rd card. I don't  have a rational case to use bitcoin if there is no discount offered, when I can get those discounts instead.

You are trolling. Bitcoin provides value because it is cost efficient, and instant.
This is actually true. When people hoard bitcoin they are actually harming the overall bitcoin economy because they are preventing more commerce from taking place. I am not saying that the price of bitcoin will decrease, but that not spending the bitcoin that you have does no good to the overall bitcoin economy

.. And so is dollar.

Unique use cases is the key word.
What can Bitcoin buy that you can't buy with other currencies?
The more unique use cases, the more demand for a currency.

Lol why buy when i don't need the item. Anyway, i do exchange or rather say pay with bitcoin to individuals for some offline products. ;D

Yeah, way to go.
I'm hoarding too. We will see BTC rise again. Next time maybe $10000  ;D

I only have 0.1 BTC at the moment lol :'( should I buy more and hold them ? Would be nice to see 1 BTC = 10k $

Unfortunately, that's not true.
There's a cost that comes with accepting Bitcoin, and that's mainly education, maintenance, controlling, bookkeeping. Those can easily add up to an amount where it's no longer justified to process Bitcoin payments below a certain threshold.
Also, under specific circumstances, where e.g. an online shop wants to offer a lot of different payment methods, the sheer amount of alternative payment methods may in fact lower the conversion rate of said shop. That's why shop designers usually don't want to clutter their shopping cart checkout with loads of rarely used payment methods.

Bingo. I agree with everything here. Why would anyone go through the hassle of acquiring coins to buy something they can easily buy with the swipe of a debit card? Bitcoin's true usefulness is in these areas in which fiat falls short.

As a former low-stakes online poker player and current sports betting enthusiast, I can say without any doubt that bitcoins are FAR superior methods of funding and withdrawing for these activities.

International remittance is another big one. Anyone use Western Union or MoneyGram lately? In the US, unless you are sending to a Spanish-speaking country, be prepared to pony up big fees.

Lastly, Open Bazaar is going to be big one day. Huge even. For all the people that say it is too difficult for the average Joe to use, trust me, the average Joe will figure it out if he wants to use it badly enough. Average Joes figured out Bitcoin when they realized they could use it to buy their favorite drugs on SR.

It would be better $100k

Unfortunately thats true :(.
OP: are you buying with bitcoin? I bought the humble bundle once.

but if there are enough people using bitcoin for their transactions,  shoppings, the price of Bitcoin does not fall, because most of thes coins are in circulation.

i want to buy  but i don't know how to buy ,i have no Bitcoin  >:(

the reason is  that  no person( Or only few people)  used bitcoin for shopping.

No way.
It will be compromized by 51% attack.
There are no reasons to use flawed tool as a basis to apps.

It's quite possible that these other uses for Bitcoin will also boost its use as a currency because people will need bitcoins for escrow and for payment on the contractual deals they make.
It would be crazy for a retail shop to accept payment for a digital asset you can't claim back in fiat that can be charged back.

BTC market currently is real large market in the whole world  ;D

The only reason BTC has had so much success it because of "dark markets" Most people that are not into the tech of bitcoin purchase the currency to buy illegal drugs online. If you didn't buy your BTC before early 2013 you SIR are not a investor but a complete moron.       

Gresham's Law.

As said earlier in this thread I also agree that if we use hoarded bitcoins to buy things that would only create selling pressure on market as merchants are probably going to sell their bitcoins immediately.

If everyone buy bitcoins and then buy things that could stabilize the price of bitcoin.

I bought alot of shit with them back in the days.

Well, in order to create growth in Bitcoin usage through the network effect you need more people to "use" it. Even if using it means simply accepting it and dumping it for fiat 5 seconds later.

Yeah true.!! I think this is some sort of publicity work...trying to trick ppl into buying something from those websites..!! Well..I dont think its working.!!  :P

I would say that the dark markets is what helped bitcoin grow and become more widely known/used, however bitcoin does have many uses outside of dark markets and is still more cost efficient then paying via credit card, especially from a cost standpoint

It may be more cost efficient but people are still getting their bank accounts fucked off just for buying/selling them. BTC is for investors and drugs PERIOD!

Tis the problem of which came first, the chicken or the newegg. 

This is the bootstrapping dilemma.  It is hard to spend bitcoins because no real shop in my city accepts them, but no shops want to accept them because nobody is using them. 

If you believe in this movement it is really important to spend them whenever possible. 

And yes, it does create downward pressure on the exchanges at first, but eventually that won't happen.  When bitcoin is in a good rally those companies won't be selling but hoarding.  Also, eventually if enough people are spending then some people need to be buying again to spend so that will create upward pressure. 

This is a needed growing pain.

I agree with all these statements but in the end we still need regular shops accepting bitcoins too. 

If you win big at the casino.  It is nicer to just shop with the bitcoins directly.
After I sell something on Open Bazzar, it would be nice if I could use that coin to buy some groceries at my neighborhood store. 
If somebody overseas sends you money, instead of paying fees to transfer that bitcoin into fiat, why not just use it in a shop that gives you a discount for bitcoin?

The fact that people's bank accounts are getting closed because people are involved in bitcoin has nothing to do with bitcoin, it has to do with the fact that people are using their person bank accounts to conduct business with. If someone wants to engage in the practice of trading bitcoin and/or conducting bitcoin related business then they need to open a business bank account, not use their personal bank account

Nothing like anecdotal evidence...

the  development  of Bitcoin  is so  early,so many people don't mind the current low prices and  less people accepting it

You are clearly an idiot, and know absolutely nothing about bitcoin, how it works, what the phases were and now are, and what will secure its value.

Since you have posted "Overstock" a site that is helping to diminish the value of bitcoin right now, it also shows the great lack of research you have done.

I n the beginning in 2009 phase 1 was the increase of transactions, they needed these in the beginning so as the miners had something to mine THUS why faucets were evolved into the industry, they provided a network of transactions that helped build the blockchain, (FYI MORON these faucets still exist today and have probably quadrupled in amounts of them in existance thus securing your idiocized theory of needed transactions.

Why is your post so stupid an uneducated, you fail to realize places like overstock and the hundreds other online merchant sites as well as places like Dell only dump our coins for cash. they have to pay for things that require cash transactions like website fees, labor, tangible inventory to manufacture a product. they can not buy these things with Bitcoins thus they ahve to dump the coins for cash. and the more companies that we pick up, the more kids like you run out and blow all those BTC they earned in faucets this past year onb the newest video game, and what do those merchants do, sell your hard earned BTC for cash lowering the value of BTC every two weeks.

It is truely amazing how uterly stupid people really are in here.

Who cares if services dump to cash right away?

That means someones buying their btc so its neutral

And the person using the btc to buy things will need to reload his wallet again soon

Bitcoin will be ready for mass adoption once it becomes easy to use. Now this is not the case for various reasons. There is no infrastructure for end users. Circle is just one of the companies working on changing this and bringing bitcoin to the masses by offering a dead simple, user friendly GUI. Many more end user services are being created as we speak I believe. So things are moving in the right direction.

Another big issue preventing mass adoption is the base unit too large for everyday use for most regular people. What the heck is 0.000034? How do I get my brain to naturally understand value that number represents? If you wish to help change this join the growing number of people advocating the switch to 100 satoshis as the main denomination unit. This would enable standardisation that would be future proof and would make possible a significant breakthrough in general user adoption.

Just spending your bitcoin will not change much. It's a tiny part of the big picture. I'm not saying you should not do it. Heck yes, spend away! Donate. Show support for those businesses and non-profits who trusted us evangelists and decided to start accepting bitcoin. But if you truly wish to change something for the better in bitcoin world, see what sucks and create a business to address that problem.

Agree. The evidence is that there is increasing acceptance of bitcoins by merchants and people are spending bitcoins. One customer service guy does not make a proper sample.  :)

We need a fresh large group of people to take interest in bitcoin and start buying frequently that's the way price will go up.

This is the part so many people don't understand.  Users of bitcoin spend them and Overstock changes them to Fiat immediately.  But, the user of bitcoin must replentish his wallet - or quit being a user of bitcoin.  I seriously doubt users of bitcoin quit the system as soon as they spend their bitcoins at Overstock.  Nope.  They go back to Coinbase and rebuy the same damn bitcoins that Overstock is selling.

Shocking how moronic the masses are.  Overstock selling 100% of their bitcoins does nothing to adversely affect price.  However, that Overstock accepts them in the first place DOES attract more bitcoin users to the system as the utility of the coins is improved. 

Every person who bought stuff at Overstock later replentished his wallet.  Not one single guy quit being a bitcoin user because his wallet went empty after a Overstock purchase. 

WTF?  Are you people idiots or what?  Definately idiots.

The idiots are the people spending their BTC.

People can spend & spend away.

I'm hoarding mine for a massive cash injection in 10 years or so.

I agree with OP.
Bitcoin is Money and Money is made to be spent.

 While I don't disagree with your position, there are many people in North America who save for their retirement years as well.  Ultimately they could spend the money but it is used in 401Ks and RRPSs to both defer taxation and serve as a retirement income.  I'm not sure bitcoin can be used to defer taxes at this time in RRSPs and 401k(s).  Money and bitcoin are not synonymous yet.

The question "what are you - an idiot?" is also the answer.

If you do not trust the future of cryptocurrency, if you think it is a scam that must be hyped and pumped, then you are right.

But for people who know more about economies and finance there is no need to use pushy manipulation. Only patience.

I'm inclined to disagree!
Holding gold reserves are equally important as that of capital raises (since 90% of the time that is what gold offtake is utilised for).
This topic itself requires a very deep discussion but I do assure you that it is not common practice to immediately sell off gold produced.

However in the broader topic of this discussion, I do agree that the future success of bitcoin and CryptoCurrencies in General is that of accessability. It is the key argument in the positives that Bitcoin poses to users. For Bitcoin to truly serve it's purpose of creation and to compete with conventional currency Bitcoin must become conventional currency itself be that in it's own form or indirectly via immediate FIAT exchange.

I would disagree that they are "suppose" to sell, but I would say that the economics of mining means that they will sell right away. The reason the miners will likely always sell much of their mined bitcoin right away is because of the large initial investment required to purchase a miner, which is often larger then the amount of bitcoin that a miner wishes/can afford to own.

Bitcoin:

Almost 80% are hoarders and 20% consumers.

Got any evidence to suggest this?  Or is it just a guess and wishful thinking?  I though bitcoiners were a little more scientific than this.

I don't look at bitcoin as a currency.

I compare bitcoin with gold, in that sense it's the digital version of gold. Many people share this view.

You won't see too many people making everyday purchases with gold, just like you aren't seeing massive amounts of people making purchases in bitcoin

Right now cash and credit is still the most user-friendly option for most people