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Title: .. Post by: JaredR26 on November 09, 2014, 10:07:08 PM ..
Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: cxboyminer on November 09, 2014, 10:09:39 PM why not ask a bank for that loan?
Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: ACCTseller on November 09, 2014, 10:31:41 PM Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral. Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well. I am sorry to tell you that no one is going to lend you a million dollars on here. I would doubt that even most people even have a million dollars to lend you if it was an appropriate risk. PM me if anyone is interested. From what I have seen you will pay a higher rate and lenders will have stricter lending standards then if you were to take out a loan at the bank. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: nothing2seeHere on November 10, 2014, 02:40:38 AM Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral. Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well. Are you looking to borrow $1,000,000 in dollars that is secured by $1,000,000 worth of bitcoin? If this is the case then the lender would be taking on a lot of risk as he would essentially be allowing you to purchase a million dollars worth of bitcoin at current prices regardless of where the price of bitcoin goes in the future. If the price of bitcoin goes down then you will default on the loan, if the price goes up then you repay the loan. PM me if anyone is interested. Also you would need to find a trusted escrow to hold ~2,800 BTC which is more then what most escrow services should be trusted to hold. Are you able to sign an address containing as much bitcoin? Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: bl4kjaguar on November 10, 2014, 03:42:46 AM Since everything is denominated in USD, the only thing the investor is hedging on is that Bitcoin doesn't completely crash to 0 thus killing my business and the collateral. So your business model is tied to the bitcoin rate? Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: nothing2seeHere on November 10, 2014, 03:43:43 AM Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral. Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well. Are you looking to borrow $1,000,000 in dollars that is secured by $1,000,000 worth of bitcoin? If this is the case then the lender would be taking on a lot of risk as he would essentially be allowing you to purchase a million dollars worth of bitcoin at current prices regardless of where the price of bitcoin goes in the future. If the price of bitcoin goes down then you will default on the loan, if the price goes up then you repay the loan. PM me if anyone is interested. Also you would need to find a trusted escrow to hold ~2,800 BTC which is more then what most escrow services should be trusted to hold. Are you able to sign an address containing as much bitcoin? Kind of- what I'm looking for ideally is something between a loan and investment. I would be borrowing $1,000,000 and paying back $1,000,000 plus (equity in company or interest based on investors choice). My business plan provides solid economics and payback times, and 2,800 BTC provides additional security that my skin is seriously in the game/the investors have additional recourse beyond what the business plan already provides. Since everything is denominated in USD, the only thing the investor is hedging on is that Bitcoin doesn't completely crash to 0 thus killing my business and the collateral. The thing I don't want to risk is that I'm out of the btc world significantly when it rises again. Yes, given some short notice I can get signatures from addresses containing as much BTC. The escrow would be done with a 2 of 3 BTC address and a trusted mediator to resolve any disputes. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: nothing2seeHere on November 10, 2014, 04:22:17 AM Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral. Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well. Are you looking to borrow $1,000,000 in dollars that is secured by $1,000,000 worth of bitcoin? If this is the case then the lender would be taking on a lot of risk as he would essentially be allowing you to purchase a million dollars worth of bitcoin at current prices regardless of where the price of bitcoin goes in the future. If the price of bitcoin goes down then you will default on the loan, if the price goes up then you repay the loan. PM me if anyone is interested. Also you would need to find a trusted escrow to hold ~2,800 BTC which is more then what most escrow services should be trusted to hold. Are you able to sign an address containing as much bitcoin? Kind of- what I'm looking for ideally is something between a loan and investment. I would be borrowing $1,000,000 and paying back $1,000,000 plus (equity in company or interest based on investors choice). My business plan provides solid economics and payback times, and 2,800 BTC provides additional security that my skin is seriously in the game/the investors have additional recourse beyond what the business plan already provides. Since everything is denominated in USD, the only thing the investor is hedging on is that Bitcoin doesn't completely crash to 0 thus killing my business and the collateral. The thing I don't want to risk is that I'm out of the btc world significantly when it rises again. Yes, given some short notice I can get signatures from addresses containing as much BTC. The escrow would be done with a 2 of 3 BTC address and a trusted mediator to resolve any disputes. This would be done in a legally binding contract. (Not some random operation) 1. The rights to any unspent funds (not all of the investment is spent at once) 2. The rights to resale value of the things bought(resale value of approximately 20% of the original value) 3. Rapid payback by getting a large guaranteed percentage of profits until payback (Can be put into a contract, but wouldn't help if profits didn't come, hence it is important they see the business plan and understand it as an investment) 4. The rights to the resale value of a large expense that may take some significant time to resell(up to a few years, approximately 20% of the original value) The return schedule, while not guaranteed, is pretty rapid. Also if you are not going to spend all of the borrowed funds all at once then why borrow all at once? Why would you not want to have a line of credit type situation where you would draw funds as you need them, saving you somewhat on interest? Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: nothing2seeHere on November 10, 2014, 05:06:43 AM You are saying that the business assets would depreciate by ~80% until they are sold. This means that if the value of bitcoin drops 20% then the value of the bitcoin plus the business assets would be below the amount borrowed, making this an unsecured loan.
Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: bl4kjaguar on November 10, 2014, 06:47:06 AM It isn't possible to 100% collateralize anything denominated in BTC. Theoretically, you could use Coinapult LOCKS service (http://www.coindesk.com/coinapult-launches-locks-tool-eliminate-bitcoin-price-volatility/) if you are outside of the US. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Candystripes on November 10, 2014, 10:45:27 PM Mind telling us (me) exactly what section this would fit into?
Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 10, 2014, 10:50:12 PM I don't want a million dollars from a bank, I don't want to take that kind of risk on myself outside the Bitcoin world. :D The bank would require you to return the money and force you into bankruptcy. Clearly you don't have faith in the business yourself, and you are hoping you don't have to repay the bitcoin "loan". Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Candystripes on November 10, 2014, 10:54:00 PM I don't want a million dollars from a bank, I don't want to take that kind of risk on myself outside the Bitcoin world. :D The bank would require you to return the money and force you into bankruptcy. Clearly you don't have faith in the business yourself, and you are hoping you don't have to repay the bitcoin "loan". Exactly what I thought Vod. If there is a risk big enough for you to fear you can't pay it back to the bank, you should fear it just as much in Bitcoin You have to realize if you default over a million dollars, you're probably going to have a h1tm4n hired on you or something. It only costs so much to hire a hacker, etc. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 02:37:02 AM I don't want a million dollars from a bank, I don't want to take that kind of risk on myself outside the Bitcoin world. :D The bank would require you to return the money and force you into bankruptcy. Clearly you don't have faith in the business yourself, and you are hoping you don't have to repay the bitcoin "loan". Exactly what I thought Vod. If there is a risk big enough for you to fear you can't pay it back to the bank, you should fear it just as much in Bitcoin You have to realize if you default over a million dollars, you're probably going to have a h1tm4n hired on you or something. It only costs so much to hire a hacker, etc. No bank is going to lend an unestablished Bitcon based business a million dollars or more. It doesn't matter how confident I am. Then you need to lower your expectations. Bitcoin is not a magic wand. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Ukrso on November 11, 2014, 09:04:41 AM Waiting your address ... we can exchange more information about this.
Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 09:05:54 AM Return what money? The money you borrowed from the bank. Nice to see where your head is at though. :-\ Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: waterpile on November 11, 2014, 10:47:23 AM Waiting your address ... we can exchange more information about this. are you really serious? this is my first time to see a newbie wants to fund this things Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 10:57:48 AM What part of that confused you into thinking I was asking for a normal straight collateralized loan? The area of the forum you posted it in. Should have posted in "Project Development" or "Hopes and Dreams". You can move the thread via the control at lower left. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 11:39:18 AM What did I do to piss you off, exactly? Is everyone you decide you dislike automatically a scammer by the grace of vod? Given that what I'm asking for is a collateralized expansion of an already profitable operation with physical assets, cashflow, and a patent on file, and not a speculative project needing organization/guidance or "bounty campaigns, advertising etc," it clearly fits better where I posted it, not where you suggested. Your snarky comments only make you look like you have a bone to pick, which is why I ask again, what did I do to piss you off? You asked for a three million dollar loan without collateral. AND you didn't capitalize my name. ;) Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 11:46:32 AM What did I do to piss you off, exactly? Is everyone you decide you dislike automatically a scammer by the grace of vod? Given that what I'm asking for is a collateralized expansion of an already profitable operation with physical assets, cashflow, and a patent on file, and not a speculative project needing organization/guidance or "bounty campaigns, advertising etc," it clearly fits better where I posted it, not where you suggested. Your snarky comments only make you look like you have a bone to pick, which is why I ask again, what did I do to piss you off? You asked for a three million dollar loan without collateral. AND you didn't capitalize my name. ;) Good to know you don't believe in BTC. Though I'm confused about the 340 page post history you have here... If you don't believe in BTC, it seems like trolling /b/ or /r/twoxchromosomes would be much more profitable for you. :) BTC has made my early retirement possible. I believe in it 100%. Sorry you are confused. :) Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 11:52:47 AM Then you need to lower your expectations. Bitcoin is not a magic wand. What's the difference? Oh yeah, you don't have BTC. I don't need to beg for it. ;) Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 11:59:19 AM Then you need to lower your expectations. Bitcoin is not a magic wand. What's the difference? Oh yeah, you don't have BTC. I don't need to beg for it. ;) https://www.dropbox.com/s/l90sovbv58mztrg/btc.PNG?dl=0 Then why are you asking for a loan? ::) Can you list the address of those bitcoin here? Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: vicemayor on November 11, 2014, 11:59:57 AM .... And I don't want to / can't sell the coin. ..... Sorry if I'm overlooking something quite obvious, but why wouldn't you consider looking for someone who would be able to buy $1 million of btc from you? I'm not claiming it'd be easy, but a lot more probable, I think, than finding a qualified and willing lender. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Vod on November 11, 2014, 12:09:25 PM JaredR26, please sign an address showing you have over 4,000 bitcoins.
I'm sure you understand how powerful that amount of coin makes you, and that we will ask for proof of such a claim. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: Tomatocage on November 11, 2014, 09:11:51 PM I can verify that JaredR26 is indeed the original account holder, so this isn't a case of a purchased/hacked account coming back online after a considerable period of inactivity. And since he's offering BTC as collateral, I don't see any issue with this one. However, I would advise JaredR26 against entertaining offers from newbie accounts, or at least have a trusted 3rd party hold escrow.
Address. 16hmV8PcAsgdS2HtUfafN8kH5Wg5d9tCLM --------- Mesage -------- This account is controlled by the original JaredR26. Signed on 11/10/2014 for Tomatocage -------- Signature ------- HMBlZXZvLVoXLXG5COQAZ8N1T1rpfPnukMNxEqGIBOJxVbkDnMF27jD7f9vB+zazsrLhiAAQVJ1Su6/mK6Ir53I= ------------------------- Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: marcotheminer on November 11, 2014, 09:18:56 PM How would collateral of over 4000BTC work in a situation like this? Due to the volatile nature of markets, I'm assuming that in the contract there would be a clause stating that the bitcoin couldn't be liquidated if it drops to 100% of the loan amount?.
What is your business plan JaredR26? I'm curious. I can verify that JaredR26 is indeed the original account holder, so this isn't a case of a purchased/hacked account coming back online after a considerable period of inactivity. And since he's offering BTC as collateral, I don't see any issue with this one. However, I would advise JaredR26 against entertaining offers from newbie accounts, or at least have a trusted 3rd party hold escrow. Address. 16hmV8PcAsgdS2HtUfafN8kH5Wg5d9tCLM --------- Mesage -------- This account is controlled by the original JaredR26. Signed on 11/10/2014 for Tomatocage -------- Signature ------- HMBlZXZvLVoXLXG5COQAZ8N1T1rpfPnukMNxEqGIBOJxVbkDnMF27jD7f9vB+zazsrLhiAAQVJ1Su6/mK6Ir53I= ------------------------- I will be watching this address for any incoming transactions. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: deluxeCITY on November 11, 2014, 09:24:02 PM I can verify that JaredR26 is indeed the original account holder, so this isn't a case of a purchased/hacked account coming back online after a considerable period of inactivity. And since he's offering BTC as collateral, I don't see any issue with this one. However, I would advise JaredR26 against entertaining offers from newbie accounts, or at least have a trusted 3rd party hold escrow. While this may prove that JaredR26 is not a purchased account (to a degree, - and assuming one can find an unedited post containing that address) it does not prove that he controls over a million dollars worth of bitcoin.Address. 16hmV8PcAsgdS2HtUfafN8kH5Wg5d9tCLM --------- Mesage -------- This account is controlled by the original JaredR26. Signed on 11/10/2014 for Tomatocage -------- Signature ------- HMBlZXZvLVoXLXG5COQAZ8N1T1rpfPnukMNxEqGIBOJxVbkDnMF27jD7f9vB+zazsrLhiAAQVJ1Su6/mK6Ir53I= ------------------------- In regards to your escrow suggestion, I think it falls short of the OP protecting himself. I think he should use something along the lines of 3 of 4 (or even 4 of 5) multisig escrow with two (or three) escrow providers each controlling one key needed to sign a message AND to "test" the multisig address with small amounts to make sure all parties fully understand how to sign a TX in this way to prevent funds from potentially being lost. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: deluxeCITY on November 11, 2014, 09:38:22 PM I can verify that JaredR26 is indeed the original account holder, so this isn't a case of a purchased/hacked account coming back online after a considerable period of inactivity. And since he's offering BTC as collateral, I don't see any issue with this one. However, I would advise JaredR26 against entertaining offers from newbie accounts, or at least have a trusted 3rd party hold escrow. While this may prove that JaredR26 is not a purchased account (to a degree, - and assuming one can find an unedited post containing that address) it does not prove that he controls over a million dollars worth of bitcoin.Address. 16hmV8PcAsgdS2HtUfafN8kH5Wg5d9tCLM --------- Mesage -------- This account is controlled by the original JaredR26. Signed on 11/10/2014 for Tomatocage -------- Signature ------- HMBlZXZvLVoXLXG5COQAZ8N1T1rpfPnukMNxEqGIBOJxVbkDnMF27jD7f9vB+zazsrLhiAAQVJ1Su6/mK6Ir53I= ------------------------- In regards to your escrow suggestion, I think it falls short of the OP protecting himself. I think he should use something along the lines of 3 of 4 (or even 4 of 5) multisig escrow with two (or three) escrow providers each controlling one key needed to sign a message AND to "test" the multisig address with small amounts to make sure all parties fully understand how to sign a TX in this way to prevent funds from potentially being lost. That was the idea I had, a 3-of-4 escrow with two trusted third parties. Title: Re: Looking for a very large business loan with BTC collateral. Post by: marcotheminer on November 11, 2014, 09:58:19 PM How would collateral of over 4000BTC work in a situation like this? Due to the volatile nature of markets, I'm assuming that in the contract there would be a clause stating that the bitcoin couldn't be liquidated if it drops to 100% of the loan amount?. What is your business plan JaredR26? I'm curious. This is the Bitcoin world and I, like everyone else, am somewhat paranoid. Moreover, I do need to protect the ideas I have for my competitive advantage. I'll PM you with some info if you will keep it to yourself but publicly vouch that I do in fact have something and the experience to bring it to fruition. (You wouldn't need to vouch that it is as solid as I've claimed, as I can't share all of the details with you [Lawyer's orders, a bunch of stuff needs to be protected via trade secret laws]. Just vouch that it is substantive and looks like what I'm claiming.) Fair? Sure. Awaiting a PM. |