Bitcoin Forum

Source: http://www.asicspace.com/blog/spondoolies-sp20-home-mining (http://www.asicspace.com/blog/spondoolies-sp20-home-mining)

home mining never went away  :P my SP10's are still running away quite happily

Buy SP20 - only home (Jet)miner at today's market!

Yeah you will get a very nice Super mega vacuum cleaner sound in your home

That´s not a miner to be set in your home it´s incredibly noisy

Better get some C1´s though

fixed it

   
Home mining for the deaf : check out Spondoolies new offer, the Jackson SP20

Yeps that´s more like it :)

Sad part is even the deaf can probably hear it  8)

fact 

Sad?

That be a miracle cure right?

i want to get some c1's but are you saying they or the whole setup is noisy like an spondoolies box?

C1's are about the quietest miner currently available

These things are WAY over priced.  $1100.  3 S3s will give you similar hash rate and just slightly less efficient W/Ghs wise at just above half the price.  Its a no brainer.  And of course there is also the C1 which isn't as efficient but the price is right.

^FTFY. if you think $795 for 1.7TH/s is 'WAY overpriced' you should really find another hobby  :-*

the equation is this;

Your belief in Bitcoin vs price of hardware vs your electricity costs.
nowhere in this equation is the efficacy of the miner, as you fail to mention the efficacy of the miner in your own statement.
you're welcome.  ;D

Its overpriced, 1 TH/s market price is less then 1 BTC right now...

Can you show the less then 1 btc?

I'm curious to see it's efficiency on electricity.

the prisma mostly, but i think thats pre-shipping.

benefits of the SP20 over S3+ units:
-fewer machines to configure (1.7TH/unit vs 0.5TH/unit)
-Spondoolies allows software undervolting for efficiency in 3-6 months from now or as needed
-smaller size

disadvantage:
-slightly higher BTC/TH price (shipping is cheaper though due to smaller size/weight)
-NOISY. 212cfm-capable fan means a lot of fan noise coming from this box

Show us the maths comparing it to AMHash then. Include the required delivery costs and the cost of a PSU as well.

for why should i be arsed to do this?

 :D

This price is close, but not quite there...

If you don't include shipping or power supplies, and you have free power, then at a 10% difficulty you're looking at about 180 days for break even. If you're willing to gamble that the difficulty might stagnate at around 5%, then you're still looking at 120 days for ROI.

Now if these came down to around 1.5 BTC (shipped), then we'd be in the target area for a 90 day ROI at 10% difficulty. I would buy then because I've already got the power supplies and free power.

AMHash
Hash rate: 1700 Gh/s
Total cost: 2.04 ($781.32 @ 383 $/BTC)
Maintenance fee: $2.771 per day (0.00723499 BTC per day @ 383 $/BTC)

SP20
Cost: $785
Delivery to UK: $115
1300W PSU: $200
Total: $1100
Hash rate: 1700 Gh/s
Power efficiency: 0.7 J/Gh
Cost per Gh: 0.64 $/Gh

AM's maintenance fee of $2.771 per day would be equivalent to running an SP20 with electricity costs of 0.096 $/kWh. I pay about 15p/kWh here in the UK which works out to about 0.24 $/kWh. That's what hosting is for though! Using Toomin Brothers hosting:

1 month: $118.8 per month = $3.91 per day (equivalent to an SP20 @ 0.136 $/Gh)
3 months: $111.6 per month = $3.68 per day
6 months: $103.2 per month = $3.40 per day
12 months: $96 per month = $3.16 per day (equivalent to an SP20 @ 0.110 $/Gh)

So, an SP20 is quite clearly overpriced compared to the available competition. To claim otherwise is totally delusional.

As the above maths show, an SP20 would need to be priced at around $460 or less and electricity costs would need to be around 0.096 $/kWh or less to simply match AMHash's profitability.

i get free electric.  8) feel free to stick your 'maintenance cost' - somewhere in China.

If you have free electricity then you'd have to be an idiot to buy one of the most expensive miners per Gh current available. Also, the vast majority of people don't have free electricity.

'you'd have to be an idiot' to fail to comprehend what having free electricity means. it means that even the most expensive of mining equipment will mine continually right up until 21million bitcoins and your 'AMHASH' pish will be worthless in 6 months - nevermind the already worthless AM shares that the company have offloaded to the suckers who bought them.

 :D :D :D :D :D

They are just baiting you so they can indirectly promote their own product by quoting it in a reply.

it all boils down, to one's personal belief (or lack of it) in Bitcoin.
is this not why we are here?

You are the one who fails to comprehend what it means. That's why you are buying the most expensive equipment. Meanwhile, back in reality where the vast majority of people actually have to pay for their electricity...an SP20 would need to be priced at around $460 or less and electricity costs would need to be around 0.096 $/kWh or less to simply match AMHash's profitability.


Because competition and choice are such terrible things? Can't have people promoting alternatives now can we? Especially when those alternatives are actually far superior.

I own 8 s-3's.
 I own 1 asic miner prisma.

I purchased 1 sp20.  I always wanted one from spondoolies.

The asic miner prisma is very loud has had more then one documented melt down.

Cost is 1.47 x  387 = 568 usd   plus 30 usd to ship total of 600 usd  it uses same psu as the sp20


the sp20 is 835 shipped to the usa if you can find a promo for it.        so the price difference is 235 usd.   with btc moving in price I paid 200 usd different  for my two order.

the best I can do with the asic miner  prisma is 1545 ch at 1235 watts  .  this is .799 watts  per gh


the sp20 should do .65 per gh  or better.   .65 vs .80 is a big difference.

Why are you comparing an under-clocked SP20 with an over-clocked Prisma? Over-clocking generally requires an increase in voltage causing an increase in power. Under-clocking leads to a decrease in power. If you're going to do comparisons then do under-clocked vs under-clocked, standard vs standard, or over-clocked vs over-clocked. Otherwise you're basically just fudging the data.

I don't think it's fair to compare cloud and hardware.   I think it would be more of the prisma against SP20.  And really amhash is not cloud but a havlock investment.

i suppose what it really boils down to is personal preference.
some people are willing to trust their funds in the hands of others with IPO's and what-not and some just enjoy to mine.
I think you are right, amhash is not a real mining operation - it's a smoke and mirrors way of Am getting suckers to invest (again)

i've been away a while so forgive my ignorance, but... have AM yet paid out their shareholders from their last 'IPO' ?

Of course AMHash is a cloud mining service. Using Havelock doesn't change the fact that you get x Gh/s for y BTC does it? Anyone treating AMHash like an investment instead of the mining contract is a fool given that it's guaranteed to drop in price as network hash rate increases.

As for comparing AMHash to other miners, why is that not fair? You're buying hashing power either way, only mining contracts are cheaper and therefore more profitable and that's the real reason why most people buy miners - profit.


AM have only had 1 IPO so I don't know what you're talking about. And people who bought AM at IPO and are still holding have made 600% profit from dividends. How is that relevant to this discussion though? It isn't. You're just trying to divert attention because you have no valid response to the fact that SP20's are vastly overpriced compared to the competition.

What is relevant is that the mining contracts being advertised in my signature are vastly better value than the miner being advertised in your signature and AMHash offers a far greater chance of making a profit from mining bitcoins.

You'd probably make a lot more money if you changed your affiliate link to advertise SP35's or something that isn't insanely overpriced.

I agree. Here's a fair comparison:

SP 20:

$900/1700 gh/s = 0.52 $/gh

1280 W/1700 gh/s = 0.75 w/gh

6 Months opex @ $0.1/kwh = $560

6 months opex + capex = $1460 = $859/TH

AM Prisma:

$600/1500 gh/s = 0.4 $/gh

1200 W/1500 gh/s = 0.8 w/gh

6 Months opex @ $0.1/kwh = $527

6 months opex + capex = $1127 = $751/TH

Bottom line: if you want profitability, go with AM. If you want great customer service, go with SP.

the prisma does .8 watts a gh at :

freq 190
freq 200
freq 210
freq 220
freq 230
freq 240
freq 250
freq 260

I have been testing for days.

 I can't tell you what a sp20 does I don't possess it yet.  but on the website they claim 1100 watts at 1700 gh or just under .65 watts

edit they claim 1152 watts and 1.7 gh

right now I am doing 1588 gh with 1215-1254 watts and errors of 8% on the  am prisma.  so I am netting 1453 at the pool.

1215/1453 = .83
1215/1588 = .76

1254/1453 = .86
1254/1588 = .79
so at freq 260 oc       you are over .83 if you count the pool stats.


I have been testing to determine best setting.
current numbers below   are freq 260.  I am inclined to want sp20-'s over am prisma's   but to be fair I have to run the sp20 to be sure.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/913/ffJIP8.png
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/se0aNn.png

Check again. In the "PSU recommendations" tab it says: "Maximum power output – each SP20 requires 1152 W RMS continuous power. Spoondoolies-Tech recommends adding a 20% margin to handle power peaks."

An output of 1152W with a gold PSU would be ~1280W at the wall.

at 1.68TH mine was pulling 1133W at the wall using a EVGA 1300 G2

That seems very strange to me. When you set the frequency to 190, does your hash rate drop? If so, then how can the power efficiency remain at 0.8 J/Gh? If not, then you're not actually changing the setting - the change is not being saved, it's being ignored.

they stay pretty much in lock step. my freq 190 goes to 1225gh and 990-1005 watts.  so far every setting gets about .83 watts once you figure in the error ratings.

this is an sp20 thread. I don't want to clutter it with asicminer data but  right now I only have the asic miner.    I will do plenty of sp20 data once I get it.  I have pretty much a top of the line psu the evga 1600 p2
so my asic miner data will all be best case as will my sp20 when I get it.

I just stopped my freq 260 testing and am now trying freq 220 with the asic miner (slight under clock)   I had short tubes form asic miner and found they liked a slight under clock.


I am still of the opinion that the sp20 is a better deal and while people are comparing them at 600 vs 900 usd   my cost due to btc  price shifts   was 637 am vs 834  sp20.     so I am working with a 197 usd price difference.

Not 300 as some would be.

personally, I like buying hardware because it holds resale value - I have resold several times the amount of hardware i can run at a time in my collection, usually for a premium locally over the cost of new hardware.  An S1 might be unprofitable to pay for cloud maintenance, but still has a resale value of $50-80 on a local market, which is significant

i've pulled ahead  ;) you need to do some catching up!

Yeah the am prisma crashed and I had no other gear pointed at that pool.

I am not sure I want to keep this prisma it is temperamental.

not good mate.
i'm just waiting on the sparky upgrading the electric phase in our mining hut then I can put my SP10's back to turbo... currently running them at 1.2TH/s on 833w cap each box. 2 dead chips on one of my s3 units at home though... pile of crap chinese cheap shit.

EDIT: did I just say 'cheap'?  :-\

 My s-3's have been good.

 But the prisma scares me. I am in NJ , USA It mines in my garage when I open the back door to let in cold air and blow the hot air out temps run well. Once I close the garage door it gets hot. The minera software on the rasp pi is weird the underclocks creep up. in hash in heat and in watts.

My thought was run the prisma at:

 freq 230 garage door open   ---- works great no problems
 freq 200 garage door closed ---- works weird 
 freq 190 garage door closed ---- works weird
 freq 180 garage door closed ---- works weird

the underclocks also work weird if I 
do them with garage door open. 
They don't go slow which means they get hot.

If I can't get it to underclock well  I won't be able to run it when I am not home.

You should add parameter "risk of breaking/burning". Of course it's not easy to calculate, nevertheless it's necessary
We have already saw burned Prisma, so it's indeed not trivial question.

I don't say which of SP20 and Prisma is better, it's rhetorical question :)

well I did lots of testing and decided to off load the prisma.  I took a loss on it and thats okay since I am a safety first kind of guy and I did not have a location to run it safely.

The price can quickly change, power consumption of chip not. No doubt power consumption is MAIN parameter and in such way Spoondolies looks like not bad. Sorry, but 1.0W/Ghs and even 0.8 W/Ghs is not yesterday, but day before yesterday.

Well I am waiting on my sp20 and of course it is now not shipped on the 18th but should ship by the 26th

   On the AM side here is  another burnt prisma


To be fair if you read the posts about it he may have gotten the gear too cold. Thus when it started it was like ice to hot and crack a cap

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=795477.msg9590186#msg9590186



http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i173/Talon8Ya/MTG%20for%20Sale/20141119_044856.jpg

Dang, how cold are we talking about here?

How many S1's would you like to buy at 50-80? For that, I'll make your market local.

Thermal shock OR condensate freezing on the boards. So just below 1c. Almost anything these days with a fan that has Fluid Dynamic Bearings are rated at 0c and above. For the simple reason the fan can actually seize and any electronics will therefore overheat, producing the magic smoke.

Are you aware that oils don't freeze at 0C, just because they're liquids?