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Title: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: finkleshnorts on June 07, 2012, 09:52:41 PM This thought crossed my mind:
Similar to the idea of the decentralized exchange that has been tossed around, what if there were a p2p gambling network built on open source software, with games similar to satoshi dice? For instance, one person places an "order" for a 50% chance to double my money, then somebody else takes the other side with the same amount. The network holds the bitcoins from both parties in escrow, and then the network confirms the result. What they would actually be doing is picking one side or the other on a randomly generated number (i don't know, something open source and consistent). It might not even have to be a p2p protocol, maybe just an ad-supported website could do it and set it up like an currency exchange site.Surely, if bitcoin bypasses (nearly) all fees for transactions, there must also be a way to bypass (nearly) all fees for gambling. Just an idea. Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: mem on June 08, 2012, 09:27:12 AM careful bob, with that dangerously good idea some casino tycoon may put a hit out on you ;)
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: lightlord on November 23, 2012, 08:53:48 AM This thought crossed my mind: Similar to the idea of the decentralized exchange that has been tossed around, what if there were a p2p gambling network built on open source software, with games similar to satoshi dice? For instance, one person places an "order" for a 50% chance to double my money, then somebody else takes the other side with the same amount. The network holds the bitcoins from both parties in escrow, and then the network confirms the result. What they would actually be doing is picking one side or the other on a randomly generated number (i don't know, something open source and consistent). It might not even have to be a p2p protocol, maybe just an ad-supported website could do it and set it up like an currency exchange site.Surely, if bitcoin bypasses (nearly) all fees for transactions, there must also be a way to bypass (nearly) all fees for gambling. Just an idea. That's an interesting idea, I would certainly like that. If a p2p pool mining can exist, surely this can exist as well. Interesting. Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: CIYAM on November 23, 2012, 09:10:13 AM Perhaps some sort of special script op code could be used to determine that a tx output is only valid if say the subsequent nth block number's hash's high bits are equal to a value (with both an AND mask and a value).
The protocol would need to be changed to handle this special script output and it should probably not be valid until the block height is equal to the checked block height + x blocks (to avoid confusion with re-orgs). It really isn't much different to the time delay feature - just would need a couple of extra numbers: Code: int64_t high_bits = get_high_bits_from_block_hash( ); // nothing special needed for this Actually I guess it might even be simpler to just use the "nonce" rather than part of the hash. Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: RantinRave on November 24, 2012, 04:44:50 AM Great idea, if you are looking for somebody to actually put this plan in action. I'm down for heading up the project.
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: giantdragon on November 24, 2012, 02:42:52 PM Awesome idea! I have started development of the P2P gambling site yesterday, stay tuned!
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: finkleshnorts on November 24, 2012, 09:58:42 PM Wow, that's really cool.
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: Yuhfhrh on November 25, 2012, 03:45:51 PM Makes sense to me lol
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: FreeMoney on November 25, 2012, 07:26:17 PM The biggest Fish is a little bit like this. By leaving money in a fish you are offering to take wagers with odds from 50-100% in your favor for anywhere from 0.05 up to half your balance. It is more optimized for fun that flexibility so another project is needed imo, just pointing the game out.
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: lightlord on November 27, 2012, 03:50:51 AM Awesome idea! I have started development of the P2P gambling site yesterday, stay tuned! Wow really? Look at my post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127836 And start developing that as well! Well its an idea. Best regards Lightlord Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: giantdragon on November 27, 2012, 10:43:04 PM Wow really? Yes, I am developing this site now. Architecture is ready, this game being designed to be provably fair with absolutely no chance to cheat for the operator and zero commission fees.Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: finkleshnorts on November 28, 2012, 04:44:10 AM I can't wait to see what it looks like. I'm not a gambler (satoshidice and sealswithclubs taught me well), but I may have to give this a few spins.
Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: lightlord on December 01, 2012, 11:24:01 AM cool, I guess it would go.
I place a bet of 0.01 BTC, and it would pop up a bet on the board. When someone matches my bet of 0.01 BTC. One board would black out, lose, other person gets 0.02 BTC effectively making it a 100% money back, or 50% 2.0X true odds. And no house percentage! For higher odds, like 90%. I place a bet of 1 Bitcoin. And 9 other people join me. 9 people would get 1.1 Bitcoins, and one person would get 0 bitcoins. Which would make it a Superior odds to satoshdice from 98.1%>100% For cutting transactions, you can make it that once 10 game bets have been made, it goes through at a fee of 0.00005 instead of 0.0005. cutting it by 1/10th. I can't wait to see this implication, or this design :) Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: giantdragon on December 01, 2012, 03:16:47 PM cool, I guess it would go. I am developing the same way as you described + fairness verification. Will launch next week.I place a bet of 0.01 BTC, and it would pop up a bet on the board. When someone matches my bet of 0.01 BTC. One board would black out, lose, other person gets 0.02 BTC effectively making it a 100% money back, or 50% 2.0X true odds. And no house percentage! For higher odds, like 90%. I place a bet of 1 Bitcoin. And 9 other people join me. 9 people would get 1.1 Bitcoins, and one person would get 0 bitcoins. Which would make it a Superior odds to satoshdice from 98.1%>100% For cutting transactions, you can make it that once 10 game bets have been made, it goes through at a fee of 0.00005 instead of 0.0005. cutting it by 1/10th. I can't wait to see this implication, or this design :) Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: byronbb on December 06, 2012, 11:19:13 PM I have imagined p2p gambling and I think one day people will be able to gamble at near 0% loss. Imagine a poker app that uses the network to move funds from the pot to the winning players address/stack. The bitcoin network is a means to transfer value electronically. It should be thought of as backbone to anything you want to lay on top of it which involves the transfer of value. I came up with a sportsbook that works this way. I made up a mockup a while back as a concept.
https://i.imgur.com/XNaXg.jpg Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: lightlord on December 07, 2012, 12:53:17 PM https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129608
Refers to this post. Title: Re: [brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge? Post by: finkleshnorts on December 09, 2012, 01:18:14 AM Giantdragon's site is up: peerbet.org
Check it out, it looks very promising. |
