Bitcoin Forum

Serious question: Why is it only allowed in Scam Accusations?

Will that change if they are ripped to bits by the FTC?

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Also why the change of attitude towards BFL specifically?
They were a visible train wreck long in advance of this new restriction. Alot of people (including BFL) had continued to open threads advertising their wares even when it was obvious they had trouble delivering within expectations.

So I guess my question is why the change in attitude after this train wreck has already begun to rust from all the rain?

What is gained by limiting it now after all the spilled milk has left the container?
Why can't we at least apply for self moderated threads in this section pertaining to BFL? (Within controlled reason)

Hashfast failed outright and they still seemingly have privileges no longer afforded to BFL....?

Where can the forum rules be found?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20333.0

The BFL fucked us over again thread never belonged here in hardware, but it was left here so long prior to anyone deciding where it should really go that it would be unfair to move it away now since people come looking for this thread here. It should have always appeared in the scam accusations area.

I don't know what change of attitude you're talking about. I've applied the rules for as long as I've been moderator (i.e. long after this thread started). The main problem with BFL threads is there are far too many of them so I've tried to prevent dozens of threads appearing at regular intervals and it just so happened that people decided to gravitate towards this one which happens to not be self moderated. The original poster for this thread hasn't even been on the forum since May so it may well be this thread just has an uncontrolled life of its own.

I understand as a former moderator that you have to toe the line whether you agree with it or not.

But fact is, when it was good for BFL, they and their advocates (sometimes under sock names) posted tons of BFL threads. Even when the moderatorship knew that company hadn't been delivering when they were supposed to. Even when they took at hostile attitude towards the moderatorship (even from theymos own lips it has been said) and the hostile attitude towards active customers.

A ton of those threads were bumped daily by BFL staff (openly declared) because it supposedly brought them further sales.

Now, (recently within this year or so) after all has been said and done...suddenly new BFL threads don't belong here.

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Whatever your position, it is obvious that BFL is simply another manufacturer of hardware. Same as Spoondolies, HashFast, Antminer, etc.

This means (extremely clearly) your moderation team has opted to act in an openly bias manner towards BFL threads in this specific section. Even before they were under the receivership they were shipping products late and were active as a company despite their negligible performance.

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So what discriminator can you use on one company but not on many others?

The Moderator team isn't applying its rules evenly across all segments. While I understand their is some kind of allowance for discretion...it isn't discretion when the rules are applied harshly against one company and not applied towards another.

No, I said I've applied the rules for as long as I've been a moderator and said this thread predates me and the rules were not being applied as aggressively prior to me being moderator. Look around for dupes for any of the other manufacturers now and see how many threads have been locked, deleted, trashed, moved and see if there is any special treatment. The answer to your issue appears to be that there wasn't anywhere near enough moderation previously which is why they sought out more help.

If you said, "we don't allow trolling threads", in the hardware section. I'd understand.

And I will then ask you what constitutes a trolling thread and actively point it out instances of trolling threads [ or threads with trolling ] across all hardware manufacturers. Hopefully in your collective impartiality drawing you all to clean house until this board is especially clean.

I have no qualms with the way you've conducted yourself, ckolivas, with apologies to those echoing otherwise.

Okay, I will do that in a little bit.

I agree, I am not bashing him, but calling into question certain practices and if the logic works properly.

C'mon I thought we have established that this is a "free-for-all" forum. While I have questioned the forums rules in the past I have come to the conclusion that the mods/admins have acted in a proper manner whether you like it or not. Try to look at everything from another angle than yours.

Try posting a link to Theymos' dox located at blockchain.info and see how quickly your opinion changes.

It does state no trolling threads effectively in the conduct sticky:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139380.0

Please feel free to point out trolling threads, as you are no doubt aware the definition is grey so up to our discretion, but there has been and will be continual massive clean out. This thread started out as a complaint thread so it was a service discussion, then it was a scam accusation thread, then it was mud slinging and dick size comparison, celebration, remorse, doxing, you name it. Ideally it should be moved but for historical reasons it's remained in hardware, but honestly wtf is it now? The only real issue I see here is that service discussion, complaints and scam accusations are categorised under economy while it's about mining hardware manufacturers so people expect it to be under mining. (EDIT: Only other thread like this is AMT fucks us over again for the same reason)

I've never been fond of the categories but they mostly predate me and it's kinda hard to convince the admins of the need for some change that involves recategorising existing topics. If you wish to discuss this aspect further, along with some potentially healthy debate about just what the categories should be, I suggest we take this discussion to meta/

Living just south of him, I once drove to his home, rang his doorbell, then ran away. He never knew it was me till now.  ::)

A protocreature.

One with a DNA of malcontent.

Where do you recommend I could start a BFL thread for posting the latest updates on their case (no trolling)?

If it's not a scam accusation discussion, and just to discuss the FTC case against them, service discussion seems most appropriate with the added bonus that it would allow you to create a self moderated thread.

If I can't post a pic of you raping a young donkey, trust me it is not a free-for-all.

Everyone knows you don't do crazy stuff on BTC Talk. Even moderators have a conscience for the donkeys identity.

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I was a moderator for 6 years so trust me I can switch caps. I know and have a pretty good idea of how forums are run.

Okay, I will go about combing these ASKFTC tags and neutering some "personality" from certain posts.

Shouldn't the discussion about moderation be in some "meta" trhead?  ;)

Indeed it should, but we didn't want to lose the flow of the discussion. Will Clean up, hang in there.

Damn, bud, you now have your hands full.


Thanks, ckolivas.

Yep. Seriously, RoadStress, go post theymos' dox (google and you'll find it) and see what happens.

I am all for free speech.

That is the (origine and) nature of fora.

As long as everybody stays "civil" (and more or less on topic) anything goes (even ad hominem et al).

If you would like the "facts" please bookmark the court filings page and read them yourself.

If you like discussion put your big boy pants on and go through the whole nine yards...  :P

What will happen? I thought the policy was not to remove dox? If the info is out there or on google what would it matter anyhow?

This thread is to discuss what kind of stuff is admissible in the other thread, and other thread policy issues.  That is why it is in the "Meta" section of the forum.  Substantive posts and factual material about the BFL case should go the other thread.

That's the point, people interested in the BFL case were tired of reading posts with zero useful information.  This thread is to discuss what belongs there (or in other threads that may be created for subtopics, I don't know).  No one has to read this thread.  I myself am glad that the issue is being discussed, but I won't be paying much attention to this thread.

If it's an indication, I was banned for 45 days for doing so.

Fact: Joshua "Inaba" / "Nitrowolf" Zerlan of Butterfly Labs made it part of his career to dox and intimidate vocal people in the community that spoke out against them.

Fact: Josh Zerlan of Butterfly Labs paid Michael "Theymos" Marquardt significant advertising funds over the course of perpetuating their fraud^[1].

Fact: Michael Marquardt did nothing to remove the dox that Joshua Zerlan posted despite protestations of his victims.

Fact: Michael Marquardt bans people that post his dox, and removes the offending posts while allowing Butterfly Labs' intimidation dox to remain.

Ergo, Michael Marquardt is a profiteering hypocrite who materially benefitted from Butterfly Labs and others that defrauded this community, while taking their advertising monies, looking the other way, and allows them to continue their bad behavior while he bans others for the same bad behavior.

Finally, I need to again call attention to the fact Michael Marquardt is paying out, by his own admission, an absolutely asinine sum of $100,000^[2] per month for development of new forums software.

-Christian "Xian" / "Xian01" Antkow

[1]: http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.docket.html
[2]: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2m6zmi/mark_karpeles_attorneys_are_legally_laundering/cm1tjmk

It seems that this community views anonymity as a sacred right, and discovering the real identity of ("doxxing") of someone as a mortal sin.  Sorry, I don't buy that.

While it may be OK for people to use pseudonyms, it is also OK for people to blow them.  In any significant personal interaction each party has the right to know the identity of the other.  In commercial business, in particular, it is foolish to make a deal without knowing the other party's real name and photo, and the address where the police can be sent to; and without checking his professional history and legal record.  That applies not only to the principals of companies, but also to key employees.  The "right to dox" also applies to anyone who accuses or insults someone.   

In particular, I think it is quite appropriate for BFL clients to try to uncover the identity of the "SLoK" who managed the BFL forum (under a deal that has not been clarified) and may hold assets that should be surrendered to the receiver.

What "reason" did theymos give you?

It's quite funny how the OP of this thread, PuertoLibre (iirc) was one of those that Josh Zerlan dox'd..


We basically all agree with that. We're talking about theymos banning anyone that posts his dox.