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Title: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BitCoinNutJob on November 20, 2014, 10:02:40 AM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: patt0 on November 20, 2014, 10:22:53 AM ^ because I've been paying my taxes lol. And because there probably is no country that really represents most of its people's views, and you can't just go somewhere and start your own. : /
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Elwar on November 20, 2014, 10:36:05 AM I did that.
I can still not like it, from afar and feel bad for everyone still stuck there. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BitMos on November 21, 2014, 12:10:06 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. 1. where is the grass greener? 2. is it legal to go there? Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Lethn on November 21, 2014, 12:33:41 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? The problem with the if you don't like it then leave logic is that the very people who use it are responsible for creating a situation where people can't leave the system as they have eliminated all alternatives, mainly because they know that we would leave if given the option and they'd be left with a failed system. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Elwar on November 21, 2014, 01:21:04 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? There are many countries with better governments than the US. Bahamas, Costa Rica, Turks & Caicos, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, Marshall Islands...etc. Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: acquafredda on November 21, 2014, 03:02:16 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? There are many countries with better governments than the US. Bahamas, Costa Rica, Turks & Caicos, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, Marshall Islands...etc. Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Lethn on November 21, 2014, 05:08:29 PM If you look at the numbers you'll find that most of it is actually spent on the military than on the things people rant about when it comes to taxes, we have pretty high tax rates in my country and my town is still a barely maintained shit hole, did see some gas work going on recently though which is a relief at least they aren't going to let us all accidentally set the place on fire with gas leaks. If you took about 30% of the military budge of any major country in Afghanistan/Iraq right now the scale of what you could build with it is ridiculous, instead it's pissed away on bombing the shit out of other people and turning them all into terrorists.
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: jaysabi on November 21, 2014, 05:30:07 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Because I have the right not to. Seems to be the simplest response. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: The Chainmaker on November 21, 2014, 05:58:41 PM I guess my response would be, "I'll just wait a little longer and hope we can get some change."
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 21, 2014, 07:49:21 PM My counter argument is that little $1200 milling, drilling machine that makes me a private, unregistered lower receiver for all kinds of guns. I would have called it my "table argument," but I am running it on my counter.
;D Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: 2dogs on November 21, 2014, 08:54:25 PM I don't want to be an immigrant/2nd class citizen in some other country.
When the SHTF, who wants to be the "guest" foreigner in some other country? Like the white man in a brown man's land, for example? (Marshall Islands posted in the above example, LOL - they are coming here! Those islands are toxic nuclear waste sites!) This notion that going someplace else is overrated - other countries do not treat their immigrants as well as the US treats theirs. As an immigrant in some other country, you are considered a 2nd class citizen with limited rights and privileges, such as not being able to own land, etc. Some of us would rather pick up our skirts and grab our balls and fight - instead of running away. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: FreePotato on November 21, 2014, 09:19:53 PM It costs a lot of money to get good paper for most countries. Unless you have a few thousand bitcoin most countries won't accept you as a citizen. Even the cheap countries you need a few hundred btc.
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 22, 2014, 02:54:54 AM It costs a lot of money to get good paper for most countries. Unless you have a few thousand bitcoin most countries won't accept you as a citizen. Even the cheap countries you need a few hundred btc. If you're capable, they'll never know you're there. :) Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: acquafredda on November 22, 2014, 10:32:24 AM By the way...
Errant consilia nostra, quia non habent quo derigantur; ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est. Our plans miscarry because they have no aim. When a man does not know what harbour he is making for, no wind is the right wind. Letter LXXI: On the supreme good, line 3 Alternate translation: If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable. from Seneca the Younger https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger) So, no matter where you go, if you don't know what to do you'll bring your troubles wherever you will go. :) Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: valvalis on November 22, 2014, 12:32:51 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. leave is just for losers. If I don't like my country I'll try to make it into a better place. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: saddampbuh on November 22, 2014, 12:47:01 PM its my country
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Elwar on November 22, 2014, 03:05:38 PM http://www.quickmeme.com/img/07/07fc212952074cbc202deb205beb277ef83c6c92f88e94dba5bc9aa8898936b0.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2bOXQibamM Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 22, 2014, 03:59:34 PM Why do I like America? Because it is built so that I can change it whenever I start not liking it a little.
:) Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Schleicher on November 22, 2014, 04:21:31 PM Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). There's only some small arabian oil countries that have no obvious tax.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates All other countries at least have VAT. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Elwar on November 22, 2014, 10:09:05 PM Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). There's only some small arabian oil countries that have no obvious tax.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates All other countries at least have VAT. Fortunately not all are subject to VAT, otherwise they would not have so many businesses flocking to them. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Swordsoffreedom on November 23, 2014, 05:30:14 AM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. What the second poster said IF you pay taxes you have all the right to complain about how something is going Cause well you paid for it in one form or another. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BitMos on November 23, 2014, 05:51:36 AM Inflation is a form of taxation. If you hold 1 cent (0.01$) you are already taxed.
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: username18444 on November 23, 2014, 08:16:28 AM Inflation is a form of taxation. If you hold 1 cent (0.01$) you are already taxed. Money (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776426.msg8751393#msg8751393) serves to regulate consumption and, thus, comprises failings thereabout. I think new people will only come when a clear bottom has been found, too many price speculations are going on. The long term chart doesn't look particulalry attractive for people to jump in The price is entirely speculative, and how will we ever know when a 'clear bottom has been found'? There should be a term for a debt that big. How come US accumulated that big of a debt? Because they meddle with everything and meddling with everything uses money. Thats why. You're getting there. Quote from: Peaceful Revolution Network link=http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html The 50 years of war left England in financial ruin. The government officials went begging for loans from guess who, and the deal proposed resulted in a government sanctioned, privately owned bank which could produce money from nothing, essentially legally counterfeiting a national currency for private gain. (Emphasis mine.)Now the politicians had a source from which to borrow all the money they wanted to borrow, and the debt created was secured against public taxes. You would think someone would have seen through this, and realised they could produce their own money and owe no interest, but instead the Bank of England has been used as a model and now nearly every nation has a Central Bank with fractional reserve banking at its core. These central banks have the power to take over a nations economy and become that nations real governing force. What we have here is a scam of mammoth proportions covering what is actually a hidden tax, being collected by private concerns. The country sells bonds to the bank in return for money it cannot raise in taxes. The bonds are paid for by money produced from thin air. The government pays interest on the money it borrowed by borrowing more money in the same way. There is no way this debt can ever be paid, it has and will continue to increase. If the government did find a way to pay off the debt, the result would be that there would be no bonds to back the currency, so to pay the debt would be to kill the currency. When bitcoins are loaned by their miners with interest to be paid in bitcoins, they will find their bottom—both ethically and monetarily. Quote from: Leo Tolstoy, Tolstoy (1988) by A. N. Wilson, p. 146. link=http://izquotes.com/quote/273222 The truth is that the State is a conspiracy designed not only to exploit, but above all to corrupt its citizens… Henceforth, I shall never serve any government anywhere. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: DavidHume on November 23, 2014, 02:51:16 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? There are many countries with better governments than the US. Bahamas, Costa Rica, Turks & Caicos, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, Marshall Islands...etc. Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates That's the biggest deception of our life: do we really believe that "taxes" pay for roads building/maintenance? I really don't think so. Who pay for road building and maintenance then? Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: Elwar on November 23, 2014, 03:20:27 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? There are many countries with better governments than the US. Bahamas, Costa Rica, Turks & Caicos, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, Marshall Islands...etc. Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates That's the biggest deception of our life: do we really believe that "taxes" pay for roads building/maintenance? I really don't think so. Who pay for road building and maintenance then? Who pays for the telephone infrastructure and maintenance? Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 23, 2014, 03:24:54 PM Who pay for road building and maintenance then? Who pays for the telephone infrastructure and maintenance? Customers. In USA, most roads are paid for by automobile licensing. But there are private toll roads. This is where a private person or company builds a road, and if you want to drive on it, you pay first. Private toll roads work better and usually are in better shape than government roads paid by licensing. :) Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: 2dogs on November 23, 2014, 09:32:28 PM Who pay for road building and maintenance then? Who pays for the telephone infrastructure and maintenance? Customers. In USA, most roads are paid for by automobile licensing. But there are private toll roads. This is where a private person or company builds a road, and if you want to drive on it, you pay first. Private toll roads work better and usually are in better shape than government roads paid by licensing. :) Bingo! You use - you pay. Don't use or don't like? Don't pay or pay another competitor. It works! What a concept! How simple! AKA: voting with your wallet. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: acquafredda on November 23, 2014, 10:38:40 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? There are many countries with better governments than the US. Bahamas, Costa Rica, Turks & Caicos, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, Marshall Islands...etc. Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates That's the biggest deception of our life: do we really believe that "taxes" pay for roads building/maintenance? I really don't think so. Who pay for road building and maintenance then? Who pays for the telephone infrastructure and maintenance? Quantitative easing, eternal debt and all the rest of it pay taxes Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 24, 2014, 10:33:05 PM If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? There are many countries with better governments than the US. Bahamas, Costa Rica, Turks & Caicos, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, Marshall Islands...etc. Here is a list of countries and their tax rates. Several of which have zero taxes (but what about the roads!?!?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates That's the biggest deception of our life: do we really believe that "taxes" pay for roads building/maintenance? I really don't think so. Who pay for road building and maintenance then? Who pays for the telephone infrastructure and maintenance? Quantitative easing, eternal debt and all the rest of it pay taxes QE and eternal debt are simply methods for creating new money. Since the money is created like this, there is no need for taxes, except to keep the common people poor and enslaved. :) EDIT: I'll stick to my counter argument at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=865980.msg9615320#msg9615320 . Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: acquafredda on November 25, 2014, 12:00:08 PM agreed! ;)
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BitCoinNutJob on November 25, 2014, 06:43:08 PM its my country strong simple like it If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. leave is just for losers. If I don't like my country I'll try to make it into a better place. like it decent again If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Where can I go? The problem with the if you don't like it then leave logic is that the very people who use it are responsible for creating a situation where people can't leave the system as they have eliminated all alternatives, mainly because they know that we would leave if given the option and they'd be left with a failed system. i agree but if you try explaining that type of thing to the type of person who would challenge you with the "why dont you just leave" argument they likely wont understand. If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. 1. where is the grass greener? 2. is it legal to go there? they will say.... see so our country is the best quit complaining and causing problems,be thankful. lol^ I can still not like it, from afar and feel bad for everyone still stuck there. They will say worry about your own life man :D ^ because I've been paying my taxes lol. And because there probably is no country that really represents most of its people's views, and you can't just go somewhere and start your own. : / not bad i can imagine the responce... well you can just go and then see for yourself and then you find out this country is the best If you dont like it why dont you just leave the country. Because I have the right not to. Seems to be the simplest response. response would be like, yeah and you get that right from your country :D I guess my response would be, "I'll just wait a little longer and hope we can get some change." sounds a little weak just my opinion guess its dependent on whos asking the question :) Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: beetcoin on November 25, 2014, 06:44:34 PM it's kind of ridiculous to say that if you don't like something, uproot your life, livelihood, friends and family.. and then go live somewhere else, where you have nothing established. it's like saying "if you don't like this meal, then maybe you should just stop eating."
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: jaysabi on November 25, 2014, 10:06:08 PM it's kind of ridiculous to say that if you don't like something, uproot your life, livelihood, friends and family.. and then go live somewhere else, where you have nothing established. it's like saying "if you don't like this meal, then maybe you should just stop eating." That's not a great analogy. If you don't like that meal, you should stop eating it. ;) Quote "Just say no to bad meals." -Jaysabi, 11/25/2014 Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: TheButterZone on November 25, 2014, 10:41:58 PM There is no country that doesn't violate human rights, and there is currently no known way to reasonably commute to earth 2.
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: patt0 on November 25, 2014, 11:43:49 PM There is no country that doesn't violate human rights, and there is currently no known way to reasonably commute to earth 2. Part of the reason for that is most people don't agree what earth 2 should be like. : / Those that have power now certainly don't want change, and the rest of us can't get together and agree on what to do about it. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: TheButterZone on November 26, 2014, 12:09:15 AM There is no country that doesn't violate human rights, and there is currently no known way to reasonably commute to earth 2. Part of the reason for that is most people don't agree what earth 2 should be like. : / Those that have power now certainly don't want change, and the rest of us can't get together and agree on what to do about it. No, the entire reason is that we haven't discovered a nearby wormhole that would allow us to transit light years through warped/folded space in an instant and return through it if no nearby habitable planets were near enough the other end. At light speed, the transit to the nearest possibly habitable planet would still take 20.3 years, which isn't reasonable. IIRC, at speed of, let alone faster than, light travel isn't nearly possible with the combined strength of all nukes on earth. Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: patt0 on November 26, 2014, 12:16:17 AM There is no country that doesn't violate human rights, and there is currently no known way to reasonably commute to earth 2. Part of the reason for that is most people don't agree what earth 2 should be like. : / Those that have power now certainly don't want change, and the rest of us can't get together and agree on what to do about it. No, the entire reason is that we haven't discovered a nearby wormhole that would allow us to transit light years through warped/folded space in an instant and return through it if no nearby habitable planets were near enough the other end. At light speed, the transit to the nearest possibly habitable planet would still take 20.3 years, which isn't reasonable. IIRC, at speed of, let alone faster than, light travel isn't nearly possible with the combined strength of all nukes on earth. Lol. If you're talking about the movie Interstellar, I haven't seen it yet, so no more spoilers please. xD Anyway, would we really do anything differently if we could colonize another world? Or just keep on doing the same things and hope things get better in time? Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: TheButterZone on November 26, 2014, 12:19:48 AM I can't afford to watch movies.
I'm only talking about a single person going to another world, in response to the "If you don't like it why don't you just leave the country?" BS It is technologically impossible at this point to be free from "it" (human rights violations). Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 26, 2014, 12:22:19 AM There is no country that doesn't violate human rights, and there is currently no known way to reasonably commute to earth 2. Part of the reason for that is most people don't agree what earth 2 should be like. : / Those that have power now certainly don't want change, and the rest of us can't get together and agree on what to do about it. No, the entire reason is that we haven't discovered a nearby wormhole that would allow us to transit light years through warped/folded space in an instant and return through it if no nearby habitable planets were near enough the other end. At light speed, the transit to the nearest possibly habitable planet would still take 20.3 years, which isn't reasonable. IIRC, at speed of, let alone faster than, light travel isn't nearly possible with the combined strength of all nukes on earth. Lol. If you're talking about the movie Interstellar, I haven't seen it yet, so no more spoilers please. xD Anyway, would we really do anything differently if we could colonize another world? Or just keep on doing the same things and hope things get better in time? Even though there isn't a way that one might think reasonable for getting to earth 2, there is a way. Consider. All people die. If they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, they will be saved, and ultimately make it to the new heavens and the new earth, the real earth 2. :) Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: TheButterZone on November 26, 2014, 12:28:54 AM I don't believe in religion or ascension. Death is only an acceptable way to leave "it" in the eyes of those who would see the extinction of the human race.
Title: Re: What is your counter argument to... Post by: BADecker on November 26, 2014, 12:33:47 AM As good of an idea of earth2 as any other idea, and better than some. :)
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