Bitcoin Forum

Thread from 2002

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/uk.finance/-Ko72tv170I/discussion


I probably think it's Satoshi
reddit discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2nicip/found_this_gem_newsgroups_from_2002/

FOr some reasons I don't think it's him :p and let's say it's him , did Bitcoin took him over 7 years to develop it ? :o (guessing that he started in 2002)

Probably just a good pipedream someone had a while back and is likely just circumstantial / coincidental to bitcoin, but I suppose it's possible he later developed the ideas, but without a detailed explanation of the technology behind it I'm sure many people have proposed the idea of a digital peer-to-peer currency before, but it does have the hallmarks of bitcoin. Maybe it took him all this time to come up with a workable solution? Who knows. Interesting anyway.

That's amazing.
It could really be him. Maybe just his first thoughts on the subject he made public.I don't think, he would work 7 years on it fulltime. That is just a misconception on how an idea develops.
He might have gathered some information on the topic, than forget about it for a year or 2 started thinking about it again, maybe even write some lines of code. Throw them away, have some personal stuff he has to take care of, has stress with his job, randomly found something that he could use, work on the code again, throw it away, and so on ...
After all, who ever Satoshi is, he has a live besides Bitcoin.

if you read on he seems to have some idea of how it'll work

"Maybe the community can bypass the old powers (countries and governments).
It wouldn't be a revolution, but rather evolution. Slowly a new p2p system
might take over. The current monetary systems were mainly backed with gold
(not anymore now, to my knowledge). Maybe the underlying values of a virtual
peer to peer system could be other scarce resources, relatively easy to
exchange via internet. Examples are: computer processing power, bandwith and
data storage. These resources would make a limited peer to peer money
exchange system possible. Limited to the total real life value of all these
resources. However from that point other resources could back up the virtual
currency..."

...anyways maybe its just coincidence

I would somewhat doubt it. I don't think that satoshi would have talked about his idea prior to his whitepaper.

This person probably was trying to piggy back off of paypal which was very new at the time

I highly doubt this. He took care about his privacy and things, this would be a mistake.
Also people (including me) have a ton of ideas. This is some coincidence.
There we go.

Why there is no details 'x' is found ? What is the email ID of this 'x' ? I think it can be retrieved from Google groups.

Do you really believe, that he never talked to anybody about it before he created his pseudo-identity?
That is pretty unlikely.

It's easy to say that in retrospect but a whitepaper wouldn't have even entered his mind at the time as his idea seems to be something he was only in the genesis of (if you could even call it that) and thus isn't going to be that concerned about privacy when he hadn't even got a fully working idea, so this seems to be just thinking out loud more than anything serious.


He took care of his privacy after he had something that was workable and ready to be released years later. And what's the mistake? Everybody is still none the wiser to who he is.

I don't think the flaws in paypal and the true need for a trust-less way to send money in a p2p fashion were not apparent in 2002.
It was much more difficult to protect your privacy back then so if that was satoshi then he would likely have leaked a lot of information about himself.

I doubt satoshi came out of the womb anonymous and wanting to protect his privacy 100% from an early age. This post was made over five years before bitcoin was released and the 'satoshi' who only had the basis for the idea back then could or would probably be a lot more naive and a lot less security conscious than the older one who would've obviously been far wiser by the time he realised his idea into a fully workable product.

People think to see Satoshi everywhere, tomorrow it's in a zoo forum, next day it's in a bike forum, etc.

There were more people who had the intention to think of a new sort way of paying.

Satoshi's Bitcoin is the first new and decentral digital currency that is really in use now.

There is a chance this was him, or at least he took insipiration by x's post.
I won't get surprised if it really would have been him, I mean, he is obsessed with privacy,signign as X does make sense.

No it wasn't, it's just that everyone was an idiot about it and thought government tapping of the internet was tinfoil hat.

You're basing this on what exactly?
Even I managed to remove 99% of my 'things' on the internet prior to this year. Do you think that he would have not done the same?

Result of this discussion: media --> Satoshi found, possible sell-off (1M bitcoins) inbound? .. sigh.

FOr sure it's not him , he is too smart to let obvious tracks like these . in google ? come on...

Idea sounds similiar but im not convinced its Satoshi.
Many got such great ideas, but only one succed.

See how they mocked him? Who got the last laugh, though?

EDIT:Lol, see how one person who mocked him is called 'Miner'? Oh, the irony!!!

The idea of a peer to peer banking system isn't new, many people had dreamed about it or tried to make it and Satoshi probably wasn't the first one think about it. So there is little chance he could be Satoshi.

if only there was someone with influence in this world that fight might dream would come true. so, more precisely its need someone who gives it a chance.

Watch how th NSA assassinates the poor shmuck now using his IP

http://whois.domaintools.com/213.84.232.11

It's probably the professor in NL that created ECC, and he used Neal Koblitz to hide it was him (reason to use Koblitz curves).

So Satoshi was the original professor from 1970's that really created ECC.

Hmmm

Anyone can read the thread and see bitcoin seed thoughts in this post and how the public reacted.

Great find, it's the professor in the NL that created ECC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Lenstra

That was Lenstra's IP in 2002 right from the NL

The grand daddy of ECC crypto

Not significant by itself, but may provide further leads, his public email addresses from May 2000

hwl@math.leidenuniv.nl.
hwl@math.berkeley.edu

That's Lenstra's email, are you saying that was the email of the guy in 2002 that put out the idea that some think is Satoshi?

Or are you saying yeah this is Lenstra's known email from 2000 era?

Lenstra is a major figure in crypto and that is a good reason to implicate him as Satoshi in that post above saying the main crypto guy in ECC that may have posted that 2002 post was in NL as the post to usenet came from there.

When you start looking at major crypto guys you have

USA Koblitz (curves used in btc)
NL Lenstra (created ECC)
Canada (several guys)
A few euro countries (several guys)

Bitcoin took a lot longer than 7 years to create:

-1992 The Cypherpunks create an anonymous mailer for like-minded users to share ideas.(Eric Hughes, Tim May, Hal Finney, Wei Dai, Nick Szabo, Adam Back, Ray Dillenger, Zooko, etc….)
https://www.cypherpunks.to/faq/cyphernomicron/cyphernomicon.txt

-1995 Tim May posts a call to the Cypherpunks to create a decentralised electronic currency.
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1995/09/msg00964.html

-1995 Nick Szabo answers Tim’s call(He also has smart contracts to include once it gets going)
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1995/09/msg01303.html

-1996 Wei Dai PipeNet 1.1
http://www.weidai.com/pipenet.txt

-1997 Tim Mays Anonymous Digital Cash paper.
http://osaka.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/tcmay.htm

-1997 Adam Backs “Hashash”
http://www.hashcash.org/

- 1998 Wei Dai elaborates on Tim’s idea for a digital currency and called it “Bmoney”.(It reads like the beginning idea of BitGold/Bitcoin)
http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt

-1998 Szabo had a simular more detailed idea “BitGold” soon after Dai’s paper and he worked relentlessly on making that idea work.
http://szabo.best.vwh.net/intrapoly.html
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1995/09/msg00988.htmle

-1999 Szabo mentions bitgold and talk of a special “ASIC” type chip that could be used for mining.
http://szabo.best.vwh.net/intrapoly.html

- 2004 Hal Finney’s “RPOW” was the missing piece of the puzzle. “RPOW” was added on top of Adam Back’s “HashCash”. (The solution for the Byzantine General’s Problem which allows BitGold/Bitcoin to be completed)
http://cryptome.org/rpow.htm

-2004 Wei Dai’s c++ library

-2005 Nick Szabo publishes BitGold paper.
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html?m=1

2007 Satoshi says he started putting Bitcoin together.

2007 Szabo & Zooko put ideas together.
Zooko: "I want to invent something else: a truly decentralized economic mechanism.  Research that points in this direction includes the sub-field of "algorithmic mechanism design" within economic game theory, some peer-to-peer research such as GNUnet, Wei Dai's and Nick Szabo's ideas about "bit gold", Nick Szabo's "smart contracts", and much more.Another inspiration is BitTorrent's tit-for-tat mechanism, which is decentralized and minimal, but gets the job done within its limited problem domain."
https://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2007-June/000022.html
https://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2007-June/000025.html

2007 Szabo Blogging about two ideas. BitGold and Scarce Objects(finite supply like Bitcoin) plus “Nanobarter”
Note: These ideas put together with Zooko’s “p2p with nodes” (Nanobarter) is Bitcoin
http://web.archive.org/web/20070625154046/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20070618142414/http://szabo.best.vwh.net/scarce.html

-2008 Szabo calls out to the cypherpunks for help to finalize coding BitGold and run a test net a few months before the white paper gets published online.
https://likeinamirror.wordpress.com/

*Szabo’s post for assistance:
“Bitgold would greatly benefit from a demonstration, an experimental market (with e.g. a trusted third party substituted for the complex security that would be needed for a real system). Anybody want to help me code one up?”

-Satoshi Nakamoto appears out of thin air and introduces Bitcoin right in the middle of the economic crisis that was saturated in the news at that time and then disappears.

More info:
http://originalcontroltheory.tumblr.com/

It might be useful in comparing known Lenstra writings with the vocabulary and sentence structure used by "x".




For example, two posts end with elipses, two uses of the phrase "a kind of", three uses of the word "idea", in a brief sample of writing.

Let's see if x steps forward to confirm or deny is satoshi-ness :D ^/s

Paypal had semi-recently launched when this post was made, so I would think that the author of the post likely got the idea from p2p banking from paypal.

One major thing the post does not include that Bitcoin does have is the nodes checking the timestamp of transactions and only including the transaction that has the earliest timestamp.

Lenstra is Dutch on the wiki page

This person had a few major spelling errors not found in Lenstra's published papers, so maybe it's Lenstra making bad spelling errors since he is Dutch. His papers would be edited heavily. So you need to find examples of him with no editors.

Here's one of his papers, well done and probably heavily edited.

http://www.ams.org/notices/200202/fea-lenstra.pdf

Maybe Lenstra was part of the group Satoshi.

Looking at the hypothesis from the opposite direction, what comments has Hendrik Lenstra ever made about Bitcoin? 

One of the big pushers of bitcoin got his doctorate under him I read on another site, haven't seen him say boo on it.

All these crypto guys are inbred to each other like hillbillies

It's a small world, crypto

There's a big difference between writing a forum post and an academic paper.


If he was satoshi surely he wouldn't say anything or at least try to distance himself from it?

So far, I have not found any statement from him on Bitcoin, which might be conspicuous in its absence considering his background.

He also has three brothers who are distinguished mathematicians.

So who are the known Dutch people in this forum?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=79.0
And which ones have considerable mathematical knowledge?

God damn that type of thing really plays with my mind. It could perfectly be him, just being a pioneer missunderstood genius.

I had the same thoughts!  Sounds like him / her / them..

Page1 = Sol Adoni = 247news = 247poker. You are fooling nobody with that spelling, a sentence on each line. This is simple analysis of your writing style, the same type we use on Satoshi.

This is an incredible document,and it is really concrete

meh
another satoshi

the unlimited divisible part is striking you must admit! ;)

haha im just reading all the hate comments saying hes smoking weed, not realistic. look at BTC now!

PS my first post!

Lol. Same with me. It seems like it really good be satoshi but there's not enough detail to say for sure. Has anyone done any other investigation into this guy? Maybe there is some other evidence hidden on the net somewhere?

By the way, there are several notables in the history of crypto and Digital Currency who have been in the Netherlands.

David Chaum, had a Dutch girlfriend and launched DigiCash in Amsterdam..

also collaborated with...

Jeroen van de Graaf
Hans van Antwerpen
Eugene van Heyst

There was a nucleus of crypto and digital currency research around the university of Amsterdam in the 90s.

Ergo, there was probably at least 50 people in the Netherlands who had come across these ideas, friends, fellow academics, grad students etc etc, quite a nucleus.

I therefore propose that any one of these could have made that post, and it does not necessarily mean that any of them were Satoshi.

I always told myself if I ever met the real Satoshi standing in front of me, I would imagine he would be really really rich, brilliant kind of guy who is probably prefer to stay low profile all of life. And no, II'll never meet the real guy nor will ever have the chance to know his true identity. And that's a fact

I think I do.