Bitcoin Forum

So i have been talking to my friend since JUNE about bitcoins. its like talking to a cement wall. he so none of the positive stuff and all the negative things about bitcoin. How do we combat this shit.

Here are his latest replies. GRRRRRR

"I been watching the Bitcoin market and the value has tanked, 1 Bitcoin is only worth $366 now! Back in July is was over double that. I see In the market that bitcoins are not becoming as popular as people thought. On CNN money market, there saying bit coin is "the tip of a dangerous iceberg", Top investors say bit coins got a lukewarm welcome to the real world 2 months ago from the IRS and The IRS ruled that, for tax purposes, bitcoins should be treated as investments like stocks and bonds, rather than as traditional currency.

That’s a potential nightmare for currency users, because it could make any bitcoin transaction a “taxable event.” If your bitcoin rose in value between the time you obtained it and the time you used it, you could owe capital-gains tax—not something you need worry about when you pay with, say, a $20 bill. Lol.

From what I'm seeing is that Bitcoin’s fate relies on people’s willingness to accept it, use it and think it has some value. Banks won't accept it and many businesses that use to accept it no longer does. There's also some major changes in motion here too, New York state recently proposed virtual-currency rules that would require “BitLicenses” for people who trade, store or issue virtual currencies, along with disclosure, anti-laundering and security requirements. So you can actually be fined or jailed if you don't have a license for bitcoins.


I also read an article that miners are hacking people's bank accounts so it's more of a reason bitcoins might fall off the digit map, here's that article:

James Singleton, a digital manager at the Red Bull Music Academy in Germany, was coding one February afternoon and left his computer to go home at about 4 p.m. Three hours later, he received an email from Amazon saying his account had racked up a mysterious $2,600 bill, as well as 100 new, large databases that he never created in Dublin, Hong Kong, Tokyo and the U.S.

“I was furiously deleting these things,” Singleton says. But his account soon topped $5,100. Amazon removed the charges, he says, and told him the company had seen similar cases where people had infiltrated others’ accounts to mine for cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. “I can’t think of any other reason you might need to have that much computer power,” Singleton says.

Bitcoins are created through “mining,” a process in which computers solve complex math problems. It requires massive volumes of processing power and electricity, so some miners do it on somebody else’s dime. Some hackers are infiltrating peoples’ cloud accounts to set up data centers that mine for digital currencies.
Rob Ragan, a senior security associate at the security firm Bishop Fox, found that by scraping search engines, he could find users’ Amazon Web Services private keys—usernames and passwords. Hackers could access their accounts and control servers to set up mining operations. “There’s obviously a whole lot of money to be made by having someone else pay for all the power of your cryptocurrency mining,” Ragan says, adding that the process could run up a tab of up to $800,000 on someone’s cloud account.
A spokeswoman for Amazon Web Services called these cases “basic fraud” and declined to comment on how often they occur.


I guess I'm still not sold on it yet, I'm closely watching the market but it seems more like a "fab" that may or may not phase out over the next few years, hard to tell.."

In my experience, I started telling people Bitcoin would change the world as we know it in 2012, People don't want an alternative to currency. Sure most who have a clue know that the system is broken but to them the thought of anything else just scares them. People fear change. Unless there is a BIG event the average person does not feel compelled to change what the foundation of what how our society operates.


My question to you is why do you feel you need to convince them? I know my reasons were pure and I will assume that your intention is to help people but preaching Bitcoin to the average person is like telling an alcoholic he needs to stop drinking. He may know what your saying is true but will fight and defend their position to the bitter end. All I can say is practice what you preach. If you believe in Bitcoin than live your life accordingly.

Funny enough is  I get calls constantly from people who I tried to tell about Bitcoin. They want me to do it all for them at for them for nothing because they think it will make them rich. I did this a few times and when they lose 10% they get all hostile about having "trusted" me. I had this happen with friends of mine but funny thing was when they were up 100%+ my efforts were still not recognized.

For me Bitcoin represents freedom, sovernty and self determination. Those are beautiful things that one must discover for themselves. Regardless of the position of Bitcoin vs fiat I will forever be contributing to the network in some capacity. If you are involved in Bitcoin for the wrong reasons I can see how it can be scary, especially when the media is spreading FUD.

Long live decentra

It depends on who you talk to, what you're realising unfortunately is that the average person is actually pretty stupid ( I know this sounds harsh, but think about the kind of people that keep getting elected to office and you'll understand ) however for me at least the experience has been more positive because even though I got pretty ignorant comments from people some of them at least started researching it and now they're occasionally hitting articles and stuff I didn't know about that.

There's also a Bitcoin etsy team I had no clue about so it's not all a lost cause, I'm sure you found this already but generally people who have a positive disposition towards government tend to be less receptive to Bitcoin because they don't see why they need it.

I don't get it either why Bitcoin hasn't taken off yet, as I've mentioned in a previous thread.

My guess is for a few reasons:

     I've always been into computing and although I only understand the basics of security when it comes to Bitcoin (keep the important amounts in cold storage, spread across many paper wallets) and use an online wallet for day to day transactions. For someone that isn't into computing it would seem like a strange fad, rather than a realistic change.

     It's pricey. To try and get someone to pay £250 (at current rates) for something they won't really use for a couple of years takes some doing.

     Lack of consumer options to spend. Here in the UK there's only a niche market for actually using the damn things. I've spent BTC on computer hardware and used darknet markets to get hold of pharmaceuticals but that's about it. If only Amazon UK would start accepting BTC directly I would be using it loads more. I bought most of my Christmas shopping from Amazon and I would definitely use BTC instead of debit card just to propagate the change we need.

     Isn't it fashionable yet? I thought teenagers loved new technology but I don't see any fashion trends toward using Bitcoin. Not that I'm particularly down with what youngsters are doing these days.

    People are too willing to believe government spin that the economy is slowly getting better. If people were prepared to read articles and watch documentaries about how rife corruption still is then they may think differently. They're far too willing to suck up whatever so-called impartial mass media is telling them, which is mainly led by government party policy. I'm looking at you, BBC!




I'm not really complaining about the slow adoption we're seeing because it allows me to slowly acquire more BTC with every pay cheque but it is somewhat astounding that average people aren't buying into Bitcoin. It seems to be the whales that have them all and that's the opposite of what Bitcoin should be about.

If anyone has an idea about when the tipping point will occur or what it will be I would like to know.

My problem is you can't buy fried chicken with it anywhere.

Go and ask KFC to accept it then :P lol :D

Would they accept it?

No, but you could convince them to implement it... Ooo Speaking of which I need to check with the Gemstore I use in Thailand accepts it yet.

Edit: aww not yet :( :D

I have an investor who is going to invest in my mining operations. With that, I will let people know and make them understand that what is Bitcoin and how it works, for the same, I will provide BTC0.002 to everyone who will join the movement, unless my BTC1 advertisement budget gets ended, then ask them to come to my shop that I will rent, ask them for BTC and will sell Coffee and other Cold-drinks to them to show them how easy it is to just give it and buy anything without anyone knowing you paid that... ;) Cheers...

Can't blame him for that. I used to have all the reserved or would say negative feeling about a virtual currency created out of nothing and then having a value. But after I understand the concept and technology behind it, my thinking has start to change.

Well I would say finally it's still up to him to realize. You have done your best  ;)

you gotta remember that people don't inhernelty take the time to learn things. case in my point my girlfriend. she is actually smart, she has a master degree in psychology and all this stuff right. she thinks she knows everything all the time and when i prove her wrong she gets mad(i do it in a nice way too). some people just do not understand what they don't understand. i will admit if i dont know something and othe rpeople can get annoying.

Whether they want to understand or not, but nobody will say "NO" to a free thing. I can understand that it may be annoying when it comes to learning anything new that you don't understand and are not interested in, but they will be giving back the coins to me only, and in that way, they will experience and harness the power of cryptography. I don't think there's any other way to let people know about this and make a community with them then to market it publicly and ask them to try out our "Coffee for BITCOINS"... ;)

many people think fiat is too big to fail. that it will continue on forever. they have used it since birth and they think it will continue until death.

they need reminding that the Zimbabwe dollar has GONE
they need reminding that the french franc has GONE
they need reminding that the Spanish paseta has GONE
they need reminding that the finnish markka has GONE
they need reminding that the Deutschmark has GONE
....(i can name a couple dozen more that disappeared in the last 20 years. hello 'euro')

as for the future.
the russian, chinese, brazilian, african, indian currencies are going. (hello 'brics')
the american dollar, canadian dollar, mexican peso currencies are going. (hello 'amero')

so there is going to be a shift in peoples natural tendency to trust that piece of paper saying american dollar, to always be worth something. because soon enough people will just be using it as wall paper or toilet paper when the change happens. and thus people have the freedom of choice to shift into yet another government honeypot trap such as the amero/brics, or go with something thats both international and borderless and uncontrolled. that by its very nature will continue for atleast a century...

dont be fooled.... the american dollar will not be here in decades to come.
america will file for bankruptcy to not have to repay china (yes china own the majority stake in the US bonds) and then america will create the amero.

its already happening, many cities in america are now filing bankruptcy. here is just a few
-- City of Detroit
-- City of San Bernardino, Calif.
-- City of Stockton, Calif.
-- Jefferson County, Ala.
-- City of Central Falls, R.I.

so dont think bitcoin is a finished race... as most smart people can still hear the starting trigger, even if a few non believers think the race is over before they have begun to run. the energy and pace is yet to be seen.

bitcoin is just code, no arms no legs. no voice. thus bitcoin cannot force anything upon anyone, yet bitcoin can be clearly seen as advantageous to fiat in multiple ways. for smart people, they see the benefits without any third party speaches. for average joe, they may need some guidance to explain how these benefits affect them. and then the late adopters, well its always going to take them alot of time to see the benefits. so dont hound them endlessly if they are not seeing it instantly.

just wait and see what happens and be in a position to help guide people using honest practical advice into what bitcoin can offer that fiat cant

another thing that also gets people confused is that they don't alreayd do mobile banking or haven't played video games where there is a virtual currency. if they sat there and played lets say runescape for a month, bought and sold items in game, then learned that 1 million gold is worth about $2.50 in real life money on 07 classic then they would understand why people are willing to pay $2.50 per 1 million in rsgp. its because some people would rather use USD to buy rsgold then have fun in the game.

bitcon works differently, you buy bitcoin with USD  to have your own fun/or be serious/be anonymous/because it makes more sense cost wise/to send a friend money/buy something blahhh. people dont understand all the benefits you get from it because they haven't dealt with something like it before.

also people dont even understand how the current fiat system works, so if you try to win them over by saying it is better than the current system they will look at you and be all like "well it still works right now what wouldi need btc for derp derp derppp".

Because most of the people don't even open the internet and check the day to day update on the latest tech.

Money talks....once BTC hits $1000, $2000, and higher...people will start paying attention.

If there is nothing spectacular about bitcoin at the time...most people turn a blind eye to it.

Don't combat, just use bitcoins as money. Save them. Sell stuff and services for bitcoins. When it will go to a $10000 ppl will understand.

I have no problems with this quiet period. I am using it to accumulate bitcoins.
Gather as much as possible when it is off everybody's radar.

If you have been involved in MLM or CULTS spread, you would understand why.

so many people look bitcoin as a cult :(

So many people just do their job day in day out, not thinking about how to get involved in something new. If anything, they are afraid of changes. This is why it is *so hard* to convince new people to use bitcoin.

Maybe you can try this.
  “Best slogan to promote bitcoin" Leave your words to win 0.1 BTC (http://8btc.com/thread-12285-1-1.html)
From 8th to 12th Dec Sponsored by Huobi

The page is in Chinese (or Japanese)!

he's right. Bitcoin and surroundings is 99% scammers. Bitcoin itself is a miners scam.



and it actually is one. A textbook commercial cult ... there have been others before that. Some altcoins are even worse.

Heh, and the "Faith and trust and pixie dust" people don't like heretics. Most people can't seem to cope with the truth about money. It's really a consensus illusion.

What the blockchain does is make that illusion less subject to manipulation, fraudulent accounting at highest levels. The fact that the wealth and GDP of the nation can be "re-imagined" by whatever clique currently holds sway is put forward as an advantage of the consensus illusion.

Bitcoin succeeds in nailing a lot of this jello to the wall, and getting us a "reality based" monetary unit.... yes, it has a heck of a lot of the same faults as the incumbent system, but there's vanishingly few criticisms of bitcoin that don't apply in spades to the alternative. If it's even 1% better it's a resounding success. We like to hope that it's a little more than that overall.

I'm surprised that so few vendors offer a Visa/Mastercard debit card that can be linked to a BTC wallet. That seems like the holy grail since it allows someone to hold most of their wealth in Bitcoin but buy goods, with instant fiat conversion, anywhere major credit cards are accepted.

A mistake the Bitcoin community has made, which has really hampered adoption and confused the public, is to push for people to have full wallets on their laptop or mobile device and do transactions through that. The result has been predictable - theft/hacking, non-existent vendor adoption, and widespread consumer frustration with the speed of the protocol.

Many companies are moving to make the Bitcoin experience as convenient as a normal debit card so hopefully we'll see an explosion in volume once some of these experiments meet with success.

I think the hardest part about spreading awareness is just the general ignorance and apathy of the public. They don't really care or want to understand. Hopefully they will regret their unwillingness to understand it in the future.

ummmm right, ppl should have had their coins with the likes of neo&bee, inputs.io, MtGox...  ::)

Bitcoin is a difficult concept to grasp so it's also bound to be difficult to try spread to people. Most people sadly aren't all that interested in the economics of money or libertarian principles so they probably wont be as excited about bitcoin as most of us here, though all you can do is try your best to explain it to them and hope they listen. If not, oh well.

I certainly haven't advocated having their savings on a mobile device, I've advocated a laptop that has had it's connection completely disabled because USB sticks would be too easy to lose, but that's it, the main thing is to always make sure if you store a large amount of coin long term you have no connection to it.

They definitely will understand transaction costs and inflation.
Once bitcoin's price stabilizes, these will be major selling points.