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Title: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: Bro on June 19, 2012, 10:34:30 AM Quote Donate by Bitcoin Bitcoin is a secure and anonymous digital currency. Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you, and are safer and faster alternative to other donation methods. You can send BTC to the following address: 1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v Various sites offer a service to exchange other currency to/from Bitcoins. There are also services allowing trades of goods for Bitcoins. Bitcoins are not subject to central regulations and are still gaining value. To learn more about Bitcoins, visit the website (http://bitcoin.org) or read more on Wikipedia. For maximum security and anonymity, you can request a one-time Bitcoin address. To do so, please join our IRC and type /msg Bitcoin new. Our helpful bot will generate a new donation address for each transaction. Please make sure Bot is active on #bitcoin channel and has @ to the left of his nick. http://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#dbitcoin WTF, right? Bitoins are highly traceable and coming from wikileaks, nothing less. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: John (John K.) on June 19, 2012, 10:39:38 AM Quote Donate by Bitcoin Bitcoin is a secure and anonymous digital currency. Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you, and are safer and faster alternative to other donation methods. You can send BTC to the following address: 1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v Various sites offer a service to exchange other currency to/from Bitcoins. There are also services allowing trades of goods for Bitcoins. Bitcoins are not subject to central regulations and are still gaining value. To learn more about Bitcoins, visit the website (http://bitcoin.org) or read more on Wikipedia. For maximum security and anonymity, you can request a one-time Bitcoin address. To do so, please join our IRC and type /msg Bitcoin new. Our helpful bot will generate a new donation address for each transaction. Please make sure Bot is active on #bitcoin channel and has @ to the left of his nick. http://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#dbitcoin WTF, right? Bitoins are highly traceable and coming from wikileaks, nothing less. Quote For maximum security and anonymity, you can request a one-time Bitcoin address. To do so, please join our IRC and type /msg Bitcoin new. Our helpful bot will generate a new donation address for each transaction. Please make sure Bot is active on #bitcoin channel and has @ to the left of his nick. Bitcoins are ultimately untraceable provided the users cares to not reuse any of his addresses. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 19, 2012, 10:41:23 AM It's not easy to to figure out which addresses belong to a given person. Case in point, I don't think it was ever done.
Bitcoins are ultimately untraceable provided the users cares to not reuse any of his addresses. That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs.Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: davout on June 19, 2012, 10:51:32 AM That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs. +1, instawallet FTWTitle: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: andTo86 on June 19, 2012, 04:03:56 PM What this means is that they have no idea how to do it.
Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: John (John K.) on June 19, 2012, 04:08:39 PM It's not easy to to figure out which addresses belong to a given person. Case in point, I don't think it was ever done. Yep, learnt another thing today. ;DBitcoins are ultimately untraceable provided the users cares to not reuse any of his addresses. That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs.Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: h00ters on June 19, 2012, 05:25:41 PM That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs. +1, instawallet FTWThe fact its online does not mean its secure. Security thru ob-security does not work. *sigh* Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: niko on June 19, 2012, 06:44:37 PM If I wanted to, I could put some effort into it and obtain coins with extremely low probability of being identified. I could then donate to wl, again without much exposure. Of course, if someone had amazing resources at hand that they can dedicate to tracking me down, it's probably doable, but only if they knew beforehand. All in all, today it is relatively easy for a determined individual to donate anonymously, and extremely costly for anyone to crack that nut.
Finally, if I really wanted to donate to wl, I would do it without any obscurity - it's not illegal to give them money. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: proudhon on June 19, 2012, 07:33:48 PM Quote Donate by Bitcoin Bitcoin is a secure and anonymous digital currency. Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you, and are safer and faster alternative to other donation methods. You can send BTC to the following address: 1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v Various sites offer a service to exchange other currency to/from Bitcoins. There are also services allowing trades of goods for Bitcoins. Bitcoins are not subject to central regulations and are still gaining value. To learn more about Bitcoins, visit the website (http://bitcoin.org) or read more on Wikipedia. For maximum security and anonymity, you can request a one-time Bitcoin address. To do so, please join our IRC and type /msg Bitcoin new. Our helpful bot will generate a new donation address for each transaction. Please make sure Bot is active on #bitcoin channel and has @ to the left of his nick. http://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#dbitcoin WTF, right? Bitoins are highly traceable and coming from wikileaks, nothing less. So, let's do an experiment. Here's (http://blockchain.info/tx-index/6201257/452395d256965a693203263c66e553b73a31cad3f34a2911674a379c72973ef6) a transaction that I just randomly picked to Wikileak's public address as you posted it above. And here's the request: Identify the person who made that transaction. GO! Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: SgtSpike on June 19, 2012, 07:39:49 PM It's not easy to to figure out which addresses belong to a given person. Case in point, I don't think it was ever done. With just a cursory look, I can tell you that the following addresses belong to you:1ApQ87FJbjQCxNxwsHgvkYPEwfRhdvj3mE 19BMM9q378xM3k8Afpbhpq1nAJJeQrGZvy 1L7JGxAJyPdeub19air92YoyvU7HsquZNF 1KgyyHBg4oAyUc1YjbL73MjLiUv7bvYJmX 197ZQJdbMaZMkSWxvDAmT8kqhgraLD13VU 1GZuqj98TNipqxm7iULpdbuWc33sWehHPm 1Mho7R9VuPdacY6SWr53h7ThjRnX1D8mab That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs. +1, instawallet FTWThe fact its online does not mean its secure. Security thru ob-security does not work. *sigh* Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: mb300sd on June 19, 2012, 07:52:11 PM That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs. +1, instawallet FTWThe fact its online does not mean its secure. Security thru ob-security does not work. *sigh* I'd probably do coins -> instawallet -> torwallet -> silkroad -> wikileaks if I really wanted to hide the trail.. If anyone can get all 3 services to give you up your screwed anyway. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: RodeoX on June 19, 2012, 07:55:43 PM I think that statement is true. It is not easy to track them back to you. There may be only a few thousand people on Earth who know how.
Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 09:36:51 PM so it's traceable or not?
Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: hazek on June 19, 2012, 10:19:11 PM so it's traceable or not? A pretty accurate answer would be: It can be untraceable if you take extra precautions and know what you're doing. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: SgtSpike on June 19, 2012, 10:23:02 PM so it's traceable or not? Depends on how you look at it.Picking a random transaction out of the blockchain and trying to figure out who it is is next to impossible. Asking for a payment from someone you are trying to track, or paying someone you are trying to track, can make it much easier to find and track that individual's activities. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: bitstarter on June 19, 2012, 10:28:07 PM so it's traceable or not? Depends on how you look at it.Picking a random transaction out of the blockchain and trying to figure out who it is is next to impossible. Asking for a payment from someone you are trying to track, or paying someone you are trying to track, can make it much easier to find and track that individual's activities. this ^^ Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: Bro on June 19, 2012, 11:08:06 PM So, let's do an experiment. Here's (http://blockchain.info/tx-index/6201257/452395d256965a693203263c66e553b73a31cad3f34a2911674a379c72973ef6) a transaction that I just randomly picked to Wikileak's public address as you posted it above. And here's the request: Identify the person who made that transaction. GO! that's ridiculous, I do not have a backdoor access to all credit card/bank transactions, all gmail emails, etc like the US agencies do (and thousands of other things I can't think of) and the context is wikileaks, not me who is wikileaks' enemy? the USA. is it easy for them to 'track back to you'? hell yes Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 11:20:51 PM everything it's traceable.
cash aren't. so the best thing it's cash in hand. btc on paper Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: proudhon on June 19, 2012, 11:35:10 PM So, let's do an experiment. Here's (http://blockchain.info/tx-index/6201257/452395d256965a693203263c66e553b73a31cad3f34a2911674a379c72973ef6) a transaction that I just randomly picked to Wikileak's public address as you posted it above. And here's the request: Identify the person who made that transaction. GO! that's ridiculous, I do not have a backdoor access to all credit card/bank transactions, all gmail emails, etc like the US agencies do (and thousands of other things I can't think of) and the context is wikileaks, not me who is wikileaks' enemy? the USA. is it easy for them to 'track back to you'? hell yes But you can make bitcoin donations to wikileaks without using credit cards, bank transactions, or traceable email accounts. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 11:37:33 PM ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address
Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: proudhon on June 19, 2012, 11:46:06 PM ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address That's the thing. Transactions are always traceable. They can be traceable to real world identities and sometimes they cannot be traceable to real world identities, and whether some transactions are traceable or not can depend on whether a person making a transaction wants them to be. Do you even have that choice with the traditional banking system? Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 11:55:19 PM with the banking system no. i was curious with btc since there is no info for the blockchain eg address: 837jsjre93ijas belongs to John Doe
Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: rjk on June 20, 2012, 01:05:52 AM ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: nimda on June 20, 2012, 02:04:15 AM Good luck tracing a tx to an ip...
Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: doobadoo on June 20, 2012, 02:05:34 AM ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.I thought Ips weren't attached to txs...at least in the block chain. my understanding is that the client echos other txs it hears from neighboring clients..and when it relays those txs, it 'sounds' the same as when a client originates the tx. thus w/o active surveillance of the network (running dirty nodes) its tough to see where a tx may have originated. There is also an option to route this traffic over TOR, in the next or the one after version, this TOR support is scheduled to include peer discovery and the ability to run all traffic thru a hidden service. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: rjk on June 20, 2012, 02:20:53 AM ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.I thought Ips weren't attached to txs...at least in the block chain. my understanding is that the client echos other txs it hears from neighboring clients..and when it relays those txs, it 'sounds' the same as when a client originates the tx. thus w/o active surveillance of the network (running dirty nodes) its tough to see where a tx may have originated. There is also an option to route this traffic over TOR, in the next or the one after version, this TOR support is scheduled to include peer discovery and the ability to run all traffic thru a hidden service. And yes, Tor will make IP correlation impossible, if used correctly. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: SgtSpike on June 20, 2012, 02:53:10 AM ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.I thought Ips weren't attached to txs...at least in the block chain. my understanding is that the client echos other txs it hears from neighboring clients..and when it relays those txs, it 'sounds' the same as when a client originates the tx. thus w/o active surveillance of the network (running dirty nodes) its tough to see where a tx may have originated. There is also an option to route this traffic over TOR, in the next or the one after version, this TOR support is scheduled to include peer discovery and the ability to run all traffic thru a hidden service. And yes, Tor will make IP correlation impossible, if used correctly. Title: Re: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 20, 2012, 03:47:02 AM It's not easy to to figure out which addresses belong to a given person. Case in point, I don't think it was ever done. Bitcoins are ultimately untraceable provided the users cares to not reuse any of his addresses. That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs.Correct. See here for a tool that computes the list of addresses that can be proved to belong to the same person: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88584.msg975907#msg975907 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88584.msg975907#msg975907) |