Bitcoin Forum

Hello!
I’m glad to announce our project, that we were working on last weeks and keep working on. This is CryptoNote-based currency with first anonymous PoS engine(that use PoW as well).
This is the part of big project (which have codename Louisd’or), that we do for my friends, so this is just technology announce and first rough implementation of CN-based PoS, and working network, this is more like proposal, so i shared this to get public review and feedback about PoS approach we gonna use.
The “Louisd’or” project itself have a wide feature list and have a lot of development ahead, so we have a great team of talented people who worked on this, and expect to release it in the middle of spring.
 
According to my experience in bitcointalk forum, here is a lot of people who like to criticize my work, especially from Monero clan, so you guys is welcome to fight!
We have about 4-5 BTC of bounties for people who gonna find bugs/flaws in design or implementation: most serious critical flaw gonna get 2 BTC, next less critical 1 BTC, next 0.5 BTC and so on.

Brief description link(mini-whitepaper): http://162.243.101.90/lui_share.pdf
Implementation: https://github.com/cryptobender/lui
Notice: Implementation does not completely reflect mini-whitepaper description, it still in development, so i often do some commits and restart test network every 2-3 days. Atm we have network that running about of couple of days and seems to be okay.

Feel free to post any questions and ideas here or to PM.

Zoidberg

CN based POS!?
Finally!

how fat(er) will become the blockchain with all these additional transaction ?

What additional transactions you mean?

I hope this is not going to be ICO....

Good luck.

Let's see how it goes.

Just to be clear, this is still just testnet?

Yes, this is definately testnet! And this testnet is usualy restarted every 2-3 days since i add some changes or do some experiments.
Everyone is free to hack or broke this net!

Zoidberg

Awesome project, good work!!

I do have concerns about this though:

Seems like removing age might lead to more ability to take over the chain. With coin age, a small sized output can accumulate the same coin weight as a larger sized output with younger age, which gives less power to the larger sized outputs. Although it is also true that large sized outputs will accumulate weight faster....  I do wonder if this is the opposite of egalitarian, seeing as the smaller coin holder will not build as much hashing advantage as the large holder, even if aging occurs.

So cool! I <3 cryptonote... I think it's great! Yes, I'm personally also interested in how the blockchain will handle it as well.

If you guys need any help with graphics/branding, I'm in! :)

Quite the contrary. Eliminating age prevents a situation when adversary can "take over the chain" with less than 51% (accumulating his coin age). That the reason why PPC code anyway bounds age by 90 days (and still preserves the benefits for large holders).

Thats true, and thats why the max weight accumulation age is put into place.  But it also is not like you would need 51% of the coins in this new model either... you would just need much larger outputs than others that give a large enough advantage to build a chain of 5-20 blocks, or whatever an exchange would consider "confirmed".

This "block scoring" does seem interesting though:

So this appears to mean that if I were to build a chain of 20 PoS blocks in a row each block is adding additional chain trust, although marginally smaller, but still positive trust being built.

Hmmm this scheme is definitely interesting.  Look forward to following this repo.

POS=Unfair Distribution

PoW=Unfair distribution. Those with more $$$ always get most of the coins,
PoS= Distribution is not necessarily based on how rich one is.

So its all matter of perspective.

______________________________

Will follow this projects, looks very interesting.

watching  :D

Hey folk, seems that it was first success test network launch.
Here is difficulty behaviour graph(just FYI):

http://162.243.101.90/zz.jpg

Actually redline shows adjusted difficulty that used for cumulative difficulty, that used for switching blockchain. There also blue points of PoW difficulty under red points, but googl's spreadsheets not so flexible to let it shown both.

Next iteration will lead code to more close-to-white-paper imlementation, network will be restarted in next 1-2 days.

Zoidberg

BTW: we still have 4-5 BTC for people who'll find a flaws!




Zoidberg

"BTW: we still have some 4-5 BTC for people who'll find a flaws!"

should read

"BTW: We still have 4-5 BTC for anyone who finds flaws!"

That'll be 4-5 BTC please.

18YJ3QPWA6XgDLMTfQ8ov6sJXUoSxNcpBw

Fixed :)

watching  ;)

LOL, I think your post was lost in the translation! :P

watching closely  ;)

any ETA on this very exciting project? Funding ... ICO?

Boolberry, Louisd'or
You're a good dev but not at finding names...

I could agree with you, but "Louisd'or" is just a codename, and it was chosen by different team, as i said - i do this project for my friends, but i responsible only for technical stuff here.

Zoidberg

Boolberry's a great name.  Not sure about Louis d'Or yet.

Zoidberg, who are your friends and why are they wanting you to make this coin?

what's the point of this announcement thread if you don't answer genuine questions, or provide any real information? is this part of a game you're playing?

details zoidberg, please

There's a link to a short whitepaper and the source code in the first post. How much more details do you want besides the source code? He asks people to help test by compiling and running it as well as reading through the source to find bugs.

All i can say that this is group of enthusiastic people, who spent about 2 years learning crypto-currencies and actually have strong marketing and economics background.
As is see - with this project they want to build currency as a friendly and clear product, that will be close to fiat money as well. I actually can't reveal more detalis atm - keep watching.



Zoidberg

Here is a name you might want to use:-

Leonis [LEO]

(it means The Lion).

Hello everybody!

We want to post some updates on our protocol. Your comments are very welcome. Please, read the pdf first (the part about PoS).

 - The kernel structure now includes last_pow_hash and last_pos_hash: blockID of the last PoW block and kernel hash of the last PoS block respectively. By that we create the true chain of blocks. In PPC you can use your winning output whenever you want (within timestamp boundaries), because kernel does not depend of the prevous block (unlike PoW mining, where block header includes prev_id). Even use it twice (if a chain fork occurs). Our protocol prevents it, making PoS mining more like PoW (but energy-efficient).

 - StakeModifier (a part of the kernel) is recalculated on each PoW block as follows: StakeModifier on height h is equal to keccak(H20,H720), where H20 is the proof_hash of the block on height h-20 (20 blocks ago) and H720 is the proof_hash of the block on height h-720. proof_hash is blockID (for PoW) or kernel-hash (for PoS). Now StakeModifier is known in advance, 20 blocks ahead. But due to the first change an attacker can't predict his chances of creating consecutive chain of PoS blocks: he doesn't know pow_hash.

 - Timestamp boundaries become more narrow. Timestamp must be greater than the median of the last 20 blocks (each block appears ~every 2 min, so the median is t minus 20 minutes). And it shouldn't be greater than t+20 minutes, where t is the current local time of a node. The first rule is a mandatory one (we check it while verifying the blockchain), and the second is a default local node policy (we can not check it for blockchain in the past). This change is intended to decrease the power of PoS exhaustive search and make timestamps more consistent.

Any questions, please?

I suggest Umbrae or Umbra http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/umbrae
It's latin that's mean shadow

Hi doe1138,

I was wondering if it is possible to implement a similar penalization trick you use to keep POW-POS at 50-50%, slightly increased for each node? For example, if each node (POW or POS) is penalized e.g. 20% after finding a block (20%*20% after second etc) i suppose it would decease the chance of 51% attack of any node, and also it would keep POW mining pools "optimal" hashing power some below 50% (while not practically affecting small POW/POS miners).

I doubt it is possible. How a PoW node can be penalized? Any miner can just restart with another wallet after finding a block.

PoS mining is already penalized, in a manner of speaking. The "winning" output cannot be used in PoS mining again immediately: the funds must remain untouched for at least 1 day. But it doesn't affect the other outputs: their probabilities of winning are independent (like for several different PoW miners).

Thank you for your answer on my ignorant question :)

Ombre = shadow in french
Sombre = dark

hey dev, choose a good name for this coin.
Nothing like Blooberry or anything this type, please.
Choose a name that refers to anonymity or hacktivism
Also do not choose the word shadow or dark in any other language, already there are shitcoins with that name.
Is there any prediction for the launch?
And beware with members from shadowcoin community, wanting to steal your ideas, they've done it with several coins and after that get what they want, often try to destroy them with fud and troll.

Louis Berry?  ;D

I think if Blooberry had been given a better name it might be considerably more popular now.

Good thing that we have a senior member making the coin , less risk for scam , good luck with the coin mate! wish you best of luck.

What would you consider to be a good name?

I'm no good at inventing names. All I can say is miss out shadow or dark from it.

I agree, I cannot take a coin with that name seriously. It sounds like a kids cereal.

wouldn't focus too much on that for now, it's said clearly it is a codename
with some relevance behind it https://www.msu.edu/~williss2/carpentier/part1/louisdor.html
about the POS, maybe some elements from tendermint consensus can be adopted?

http://morningafterwithmoe.blog.com/files/2011/09/dark_angel-3-494x370.jpg

Tenchi
Akuma
Oni
Kira
Kurai
Gaara
Kisame

Hey guys, any updates?

Just wondering... CN PoS is something the world needs ;)

Personally I think Boolberry had one of the strongest names. Darkcoin probably has the weakest name.

IMO anonymous coin branding should be friendly, ambiguous, and pass the girl next door test.

Darkcoin just sounds like a crap kids toy, which is probably why it has the following from idiots as it does.

Boolberry genuinely sounds cool. However, Louis d'or is probably a little too abstract! :D

This coin is about what?

A friend told me of CryptoNote coins, how this will be different from the others that already exist?

Thanks.

It's proof of stake.

the name has a strong relation with bullion coins, first thinking of gold here. probably girl next door approveable.

see word "codename" in the title?
i think speculation about the name is silly

Any progress to report? No news is good news ....????

The Lui test network have been relaunched couple of times because we've some critical bugs, and testnet still running.
Now we focused on implementing second iteration of the project, including new GUI, and some of features in other(not public) repo.

Feel free to ask any questions you have.



Zoidberg

What algo you gonna use for POW?

Thanks.

are you gonna leave bbr project ?

This is still under discussion.... probably it will be some kind of cryptonight with smaller scratchpad.


Zoidberg

I have to admit that last months i didn't have enought time for BBR development, it's true, but despite this BBR is my primary project. And that's one of the reasons why i've decided to openly announce that i do other project also - just because i want to be fair with people.

Zoidberg

First Anon!!! holy ** guys  ;D

If it's cryptonight, i am in.

Wish this project the best  :)

Any new screenshot of the gui?

Hi crypto_zoidbrg and doe1138,

Have you considered to severely limit the size of data that can be added with any transaction to disable its misuses? Further, can lui have some funky hack to allow paying using insecure wallet software when having also a piece of ubiquitous hardware?  :) That would be kinda convenient  ::)

Hello!

What limit exactly would you suggest? Even if you're allowed to put only 10 additional bytes per transacton, you can make up for it by increasing the number of tour transactions.

And what kind of misuses do you have in mind?

when will you release this?

Hi doe1138,

some ppl are concerned about this kind of abuses
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113806/warning-kaspersky-alerts-users-of-malware-and-blockchain-abuse
I suppose you should consider  minimizing possibility for them significantly, if it does not reduce usability of lui in a way that merchants could hardly work around. It may be worth considering even if it "only" minimizes a potentially strong FUD vector on privacy oriented coin.

Would like to know also, any rough eta? This year?

Working hard, expect to start public betta in 1 month.

Zoidberg

I read the white paper, there is mentioned about iteration of hash.

1. I think the hash shouldnt be iterated at 500k times, just let it plain 1 iteration, because when somebody figure out how to trick it with getpassediteration() function then he/she might get 50 times faster miner. Just learn from B*R how someone got 100x faster miner by passed the iteration. By letting it without iteration anyone will have same opportunity with maximum hash depending on hardware configuration.

2. If this project's target to make coin asic-proof then the scratchpad should be no less than 2MB but bigger scratchpad would be great to stay away from asic development. Because we know all hashfunction can be asic-fied.

CMIIW.

Can you clarify it ?

Zoidberg

I didnt mean literally there is a "getpassediteration()" function, but the optimization is out there where people try to make asic, by evident to what has happened to the hashrate of B*R in the beginning i remembered, and deduction method of thinking, i believe someone has optimized this iteration.

So if the hash is already optimized without iteration, someone try to optimized it will be futile or just get little faster hash.

Still not clear from me.
You mention that you read the whitepaper... can you refer or give a quote ? cz i can't even understand if you mean PoW or PoS mining iteration ?

It is the POW sir. 500k iteration and lower scratxhpad to 1MB. If the iteration down to 1 what will happened to the hashrate? Higher or lower?

PoW hash has been changed, it's not a criptonight and it's not WildKeccak - it's well known hash with opens source gpu miners.

Zoidberg

Any known hashfunction is fine, just make sure it already well optimized imho, if possible even when the asic of the hashfunction will be made there are no room or just little room to crank up performance.

What about the scratchpad? Still use it or not?

We all want cryptonight  ;)

Nope, for PoW we use common approach with usual hash function.

Zoidberg

Well, we concidered cryptonight as option but finally we decided to go in different way, but still - it's not e kay feature of this project.
BTW, current implementation of PoS is significantly changed compared with that was shared in public repo.

Zoidberg

So to confirm, this will no longer be a cryptonight PoS coin?

I had the same hope.  :(

Looking fwd for this project, so excited!

Criptonight had been optimized for cpu mining, even for one core botnet would have almost same hash with high end gpu, too bad it had not been optimized for gpu.

Dont worry because the protocol still cryptonote much more advanced than bitcoin.

So has this coin been released yet? Are we able to start mining it yet? Let me know please and thank you

But without scratchpad it will be easy target as sitting duck for asic development isnt it?

So when exactly are you guys looking to launch this coin? Sounds pretty interesting to say the least :)

PoS have no relation with cryptonight hash function.

I guess there is a confusing with names:
cryptonight - it's just a name of PoW hash function(asic resistant - 2mb scratchpad, modern cpu instruction set).
cryptonote - it's a name of technology that makes cryptocurrency anonnymous (ringsignatures+stealth address)

Our project is still first anonymous CryptoNote-based PoS.


Zoidberg

I guess it' a little late to be first now, since Pebblecoin has already implemented Delegated-PoS, which I guess you can argue isn't really pure PoS, but it's certainly not PoW anymore...

Pebblecoin is interesting project, but i'm not sure it's combined good with cryptonote technology: as i figured out "delegate" should somehow "freeze" part of his money (stake) and then other users can vote for this delegates. But, as i understand (correct me if i wrong) anyone could use this "freezed" coins in mixins and after that you can't say for sure if that "freezed" money was spent or not. (that info that we could find from documentation)

So the anonymity and delegates should have some issues. But still, if this project supports anonymous PoS mint - than ok, I take it back.


Zoidberg

still waiting on this one.  ;D

Ya I'm very interested into getting some of these coins once they launch it :) Is there any specific date that the Devs have in mind for when they are planning on launching this coin?

Hello everybody!
Here is the draft of emission curve for "Lui" project:

http://213.239.213.235/emission.jpg

Script with formulas:
http://jsfiddle.net/dubqvwje/

In first 3.5 year will be emitted significant part of money, and then, after this period of 3.5 year emission will be about 0%-2% of whole money per year.

First 4 months will be only PoW blocks(1 block per 4 minutes), and then started PoS bocks (at height > 60000), PoS blocks have also target time 1 block per 4 minutes, so summary will be 1 block in 2 minutes(avrg).
100 000 000 coins reserved for project support ("premine").

Public betta is coming soon!



Zoidberg&Co

Hi crypto_zoidberg, doe1138 & rest of the team,

That is very interesting emission curve Lui will have. More i look at it it makes more sense.

For start i have following questions. Could you please elaborate on how 100 000 000 project support coins will be spent? Do you consider them for rewards for hackatons and other contributions to the project, and for marketing? Beside putting food on core-dev team tables naturally.

Do I read the graph correctly, that well past the 1 year mark, the premine still accounts for more than 50% of all coins in existence?
Unless there is some wide distribution scheme early on (ICO?), this looks like a really sweet deal, but just not for everyone, if you know what I mean ...  ;D

Such a fat premine also holds the anonymity set hostage, unless I'm missing something. I'll avoid further comments as this project looks headed in a direction that voids my prior interest. Best of luck anyhow!

I think I speak for most people when I say this:

1. Your early work with BBR has proven you to be a good developer and your ideas for "Lui" sound interesting!

2. The premine is way too large. With that emission schedule there is no long term incentive to keep working and innovating for years (which would be the only way to justify that premine as a percentage of the early emission schedule). You could just do great work early, sell your coins for a good price and then abandon the project.  You started out well with Boolberry but have not done any work for many months (at least according to Github). Perhaps if you become active with Boolberry again people would trust you more with this project. Trust is needed for long term support when you are asking for such a large premine

Here is a post you made on Jan 31:

"Happy New Year friends!
Sorry for long delay with new version, we(me, Bitcrea, Scruffy) still finalizing and fixing bugs in new build. Hope it will come in next week.
I want to wish a luck to evey person related with crypto, i hope we are making this world better!
Zoidberg"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577267.msg9995863#msg9995863

We are still waiting. Please come back to the Boolberry thread. I think you will find that most Boolberry supporters will also support this project if you continue to innovate with Boolberry as well. Right now many people feel abandoned

So sorry to bother again but when exactly will this coin launch officially? I'm just curious because I've noticed all the hard work that you guys have been putting into making this coin the way you want it so I'm excited to get on it when it launches ;) Cheers

Hi guys!

Premine allow us to test PoS correctly. This is only a draft of emission curve for Alpha and public Beta testing (Actually we will change emission curve one more time before Beta). We will give coins to everybody who wants to test it.

There is no one opinion about the size of premine and neccessary to do it  in our team.

Before launch we will post all information about the project. We still have a lot of work to do.

Louis d'or team.

Hi louisdor,

Can we have code that can run wallet (and PoS node) on 32 bit OS please? Hopefully you'll incorporate some database format before it will need 4GB of RAM to operate

Hi,
we work on it.

Hi,
we work hard to launch this summer.

Sounds about as shady as some bullshit named zerovert...  :-X

Is there any chance Louis'or ends up in SuperNET? if bbr is part of SN, why not Louis'or?

Technically there is no problems at all, we already have code for "telepods"

Zoidberg

Hey folk!

We are looking for someone who can work out X11 GPU miner (both OpenCL and Cuda).
Need to make changes in block size (adapt for cryptonote-family block) and test it with server pool software.

We pay in Bitcoins.
Let me know if someone is familiar with this code and ready to sort out things for us.

Zoidberg.

But why X11 ? X11 algo has fpga miner, just one step to asic.

Yeah but how much more efficient can you get in terms of price and performance compared to efficient algorithms like AES already baked in Intel's higher higher end CPUS instruction set - to give one ordinary example - ? - actual calculations would interest me a lot

I think the point is early supporters want to mine the shit out of early coins via cloud and want to avoid those damn ASICS. Perhaps they own a fpga mining equipment.

Literally no, but with help especially from you, yes I can :)

X11 fpga can do 35 MH/s @36 watt, while my rig 1x7990 +1x7850+1x7870+1x5850 can do 10 MH/s (with wolf0 code) @750 watt.

I believe cpu is much lower hashrate.

For cryptonight, AMD FX8350 - 8 core yield about 280 h/s @115 watt, while my 7990 yiels 800 h/s in full power and very hot indeed.

But I think it is kind of obsolete to program fpga directly to perform hash function.

https://www.altera.com/products/design-software/embedded-software-developers/opencl/overview.smartphone.highResolutionDisplay.html

There is another way, programming fpga to opencl device is more flexible to do any hashfunction.

Thread dead? Coin gone?

We work hard, guys... public beta is coming...

The GUI looks very nice indeed :)

wow nice GUI. when coin will be launch ?

Thx!

We hope that Alpha will be available in january.
We want to do everything really good.

any details on how the ICO will work?

All information about ICO will be soon.
First of all we should do public beta :))

Will there be a win32 release ?

Hi,
Yep, there will be win32 release.

I expect a win16 release too :D

Maybe by the time the space lobster gets around to making a release he'll have to make one for win128 also...

This project still being released? I had it bookmarked.

Any updates on alpha testing targeting for this month?

Please come share your opinion about this tail emission proposal for your existing CryptoNote project:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1333906

Hi!
Yep, we fix some small bugs and improve some elements of design.
PoS-minig works! Alpha is ready for 95%
We can make it public for you.
Do you guys want to test it ?

Waiting for release

Jon :D

How does one go about testing this out?

I am drooling to test it sir. Where to download ? That link is just screenshot picture.

Hi it's been a month any test release on the  horizon?

Cheers Jon  8)

Are you looking for beta testers?

when Louisd’or will be launching ?

Hi!
Within 2 weeks we will do public beta testing here:)

Nice, will keep watching this one :)

IW

Waiting for testing  .

Will this be mine-able on windows pc ?

Shure:)

Can x11 asics compromise the coin ( acknowledging it should be a gpu coin)  even taking in consideration the block-size?

Don't worry folk, still right on schedule :D

must have been a typo (months)

no updates? :(

what happen to coin. no news

Zoidberg, where are you?  ;D

Decapod 10 for the mating frenzy  ;)

very good project by cz... ;D

There was so much excitement for this project but I guess this project was lost and not materialized fully.
But I want to point you all guys, there is Cryptonote based pure POS project now.
I am not writing this post to spam or marketing of the project but please do read the project whitepaper for all technical details.

Here is the short description of the project.
The "CUTCOIN" is the Cryptonote based project which as successfully implemented pure Proof-Of-Stake consensus.
In the Cutcoin consensus Wallet balances, transaction amount, sender, and receiver are private by default. Its innovative Proof of Stake consensus is the first to keep the total amount of coins even in staking wallets completely concealed. There is no minimum amount for staking, any amount above 0 CUT can be staked. The project has its own Staking pool for smallholders and it pays out every day.

The team behind the project has not stopped there, CUT COIN has successfully implemented privacy tokens on the Cutcoin network. This makes Cutcoin the first project on which has Privacy token functionality. The tokens deployed on the Cutcoin chain inherit all privacy properties as CUT COIN, MOnero, or any other cryptonote project, including RingCT.

Read project whitepaper for all technical details about POS and Token development.
Official website: https://cutcoin.org/
White Paper:     https://static.cutcoin.org/cutcoin-whitepaper-v1.0.pdf
Token white paper: https://static.cutcoin.org/cnt1-whitepaper-v1.0.pdf

@everyone

https://loki.network/ another promising competitor.