Bitcoin Forum

I personally can't really convince myself to trust sites that don't have a company and don't own any sort of license.
It makes me feel like I am trusting criminals, because they simply don't pay taxes while they are turning over millions.
I'd like to see more dice sites that don't just earn their reputation on this forum but actually have some legal backup.

Do you guys feel the same or is the forum trust enough for you to feel safe?

I understand that this is a "gray" area, however, if a site has a lot of users, quite some activity in the past ... months and no real complains, I feel pretty safe.
Why? Because they can win much more money keeping a good business than stealing a few coins from you, me and a few others - until the complains will start flowing.

This is my personal opinion and I hope it helps.

Don't have a company? Don't have any license? So what?

You can either have a dishonest site running with licenses, and honest site without any kind of "official stuff". There are many scammers out there who are protected by licenses/governments.
You don't need to be "official" to be honest and have a good business running. Also, if you do have an honest business, nothing and nobody has anything to do with that. Taxes are frequently misused by those who collect them.

I could say many things about this, but summing up... Forum trust is enough. This forum is more competent and demanding in choosing who's trustworthy or not than many governments or license requierments out there.

Never deposit and gamble what you cant afford to loose, the moment you step into a dice site and deposit you must be very sure that you may go back with 0 coins maybe because of cheating , bad luck , etc

Then too if you like to trust then deposit , its better to see forum trust, and dont gamble with a new site right away, at least wait 1-2 weeks until some people test it out :)

If a company would scam somebody, the owners would actually get in trouble. If they are anonomys people on the internet, nothing will happen to them if they scam.
I do get your point though and definitely do think that forum trust is very important, it's just not enough for me, at least it wouldn't be if there were competitors who offer the same product but in a legal way.

For me, I don't care about a license at all. I only trust old sites that have good staff supports and good feedback from users.

exactly what anyone would like to see , and instant txn's add more transparency :)

Thats true, but most of them would already be using some of the profits to defend themselves in justice... And that would keep them out of jail, sometimes permanently.

People who are around to harm don't really think of the consequences they will have later on, if their pockets are full by then.

Licences, do they give a extra sense of protection? Yes. Does it really matter for the end consumer? No, because if a licensed, dishonest casino loses/steals their user's money, they won't be able to get it back.

I am the same boat with you. But the most thing that i will start with small to convince myself for the site i am playing with.

No site is totally safe. Anytime they can bankrupt or got hacked. Depend on you to play or not

To minimize your risk, you can deposit bitcoin just before playing and withdraw all your bitcoin after you are done. With this, you will not be affected unless the site is hacked or decide to scam right in that short period.

I would have to see the nonce #`s in sequence, and other numerous other things.

Then also payouts, with the timing if they delayed or not etc.

it really depends on how they handle security in my view. if they do it very poor, and the user based is effected, then everyone will leave something similar like that one site called dicebitco.in that lost over night due to a supposedly a rogue employee.

it was a huge mess with people who invested on that site on the investor side. outside from the player side manipulation.

Dicebitco.in didn't have a security issue. Instead, they have been caught cheating, not just once but twice.

Company and licenses doesn't mean too much here. Surely nice to have but many reliable bitcoin businesses are running without licenses and registrations. Maybe this will change in the future as cryptos going to mainstream.

Well, you can do nothing if the dice sites run away with the money.
So its best not to blindly trust a site owner.

I trust them more than government run casino's which their crazy high house edges.

For me its about provably fair dice sites with good long lasting reputations. Honestly theres only a handful that i do actually trust. After the everydice thing last year i pretty much only play primedice. Sites like safedice and rollin seem ok and i have played there a bit but they do not have the trusted rep that primedice does.

First of all the dice should be probably fair.
Then I see how long the website is operating and who is the owner. If I find the owner trustworthy and a nice person I play on the dice. After pd paid 2000 btc to hufflepuff, I think pd is the most trustworthy.

How come a provably fair site is cheating?

time
trustability in payments
cold storage proves
good support
and a lot of factors else

yes trustability in payment is the most factor we can trus with a dice site :)

good support too
friendly and no arrogant  8)

That is right.. Just like Win88.

Yes. The best things is the support and their trustworthy. I am really a loyal clients for the site that serve me that way.

I don't really care about the license, although your post did made me think about its requirement in the future. For now the only think I look for in a dice site is that it's provably fair, instant deposit/withdrawals, trustworthy owner and that it works smoothly.

The provably fair feature can't stop a site from cheating. But if a site cheats, its players will notice and can prove it.

Dicebitco.in cheated by skipping nonce. In layman's terms, they skip the bets that you will win, and only give you bets that you lose.

Factors that I use to give trust a dice site is:

1- Time of creation. More old is, better is
2- Constant presence on the forum
3- Constant communication with the user
4- Time for withdrawal must be instant
5- quantity of btc invested in that site

there was a recent incident on pd, on how they handled a attack.

each time, stunna is responding to the base of the important statements towards his site. I would trust any site, that follows the same level integrity. Outside from the whole timely payout thing.

just follow how pd did their site.

1. design
2. answering concerned questions when people asked faq`s
3. payouts
4. do give aways etc

the list goes on, but basically replicate what they are doing.

PD has done a very great job, but a new site shouldn't replicate PD's design at all. We have had enough of that.

They should be %100 "provably fair"

I never play without the "provably fair" feature.

If it is "Provably Fair", then you are safe. (till your luck decides otherwise at least)

Provably fair only provides for the site not manipulating rules. They could still run with your money and I'm just concerned, that there would be no way to get your money back in that case, since all owners of the top sites are phantoms. Provably fair is a really nice feature that makes me prefer Bitcoin dice sites over fiat currency sites (along with the low house edge :P).

Exactly, and as I said in the above post, being provably fair doesn't prevent the site from cheating. It just helps the players to notice the cheating.

That's why you should really check the site history and feedback before depositing your coins.

The key rule of dice sites is don't play or invest more than you can afford to lose.  Since there is no regulation you have to build up trust the old fashioned way - by interacting.

So what makes a site trustworthy?  If it is started by someone already established in the bitcoin community.  Dooglus is a prime example of this.  He'd been active for quite some time before starting Just-Dice.

A legitimate provably fair system.  This has been around for years and is a great way to reduce the trust needed for players.  Keep in mind that investors can always be cheated.

Good documentation and communication via support and chat.

i think as long as your site has a nice design, not copied.

and you follow up on all measures of payout and security plus answering questions you should be fine.

but that also means you need to address critics who dont think your site is fair.

That is easier said than done lol. There will always be people having difficulty to understand how "provably fair" works, and some will just keep saying "it is impossible to get x losses consecutively. ;D

Do you mean provable?  :)

1. https security connection
2. contact information
3. withdrawal minimum and conditions
4. reading site's livechat
5. googling "sitename is scam''
6. searching 'sitename tread on bitcointalk

I check these things before starting to play on new site.
When I earn minimal amount I withdraw it just to check how does it work.

I rely a lot on the feedback from certain members.

If a site gets any unfavorable remarks, I usually avoid it.

i think there should be a tutorial on how a probably fair site works.

and how to check its roll being fair, because I also dont know how to check outside from the nonce #`s being in order. but thats about it, on how i know its fair if it doesnt skip #`s.

Basically I think most dice sites make money so they have no reason to cheat people.

As long as they have enough capital I highly doubt they will steal and cheat the users.

If you are not very tech-savvy and have no idea how those hashes are computed, there are some third-party verifier like http://dicesites.com that you can use.

1. There are many people believe that site
2. Have great / big community
3. Never had bad history

That's all  :)

True that those dice sites should be able to make stable and steady profit with the house edge, but unfortunately some prefer to take one huge unethical profit fast.

If DB didn't scam, it could have become a good competitor to PD, but we know what happened after it got bigger...

Would cite being provably fair and having been around for a year or more. You are correct that to be trusted a site needs not to have a bad history and there need not to be red flags either. A red flag could be an incident of payment or deals too good to be true.

If you don't have a bankroll of 50BTC+, I don't see a reason to open a dice site tbh, I personally don't take sites serious, that launch with less than that and you shouldn't either, because that greatly increases the risk of them scamming

Running from a long time
reviews of the site on web
Trust of the owner
If it is new I will check how site design some sites confuse users by hiding withdraw button.

Dont forget about capital / fund from that site.
If we see there is enough / massive btc amount on their hot wallet , i think we will believe they will not scam our deposit.
And review from other trusted member here

but how do you find this out, cause i noticed almost all dice sites use a damn mixer, so i dont know how to where it comes from.

primedice is a good example, as I always wanted to know how much the site holds.

many people playing there, and how big the community trust...,

Hiding the withdraw button is some dirty trickery.

If a casino does this, I`d post it so quick in the service announcement. I mean its already hard as is to win in any game, also I agree with your comment on the owner part.

If the owner is bad, then the site itself is bad.

id trust the site, if it pays out promptly with no wait. also, on the site explaining how I can verify theres no rolls being manipulated etc.

it needs to explain by illustration not by text or a picture setting. Not some, formula that i have to figure out.

This is a huge factor to me as well.

It says a lot on the operator on how they handle things done. Or if shit hits the fan, how do they respond. A dice site for me has to to survive 1 year minimum for my btc, or i`ll continue to play on the old ones that already built their rep.

yes agree :)
trust is number one

I don't think that it matters how big the community is and how much do they trust you.
we have already seen sites like dicebitco.in , that had a lot of btc invested and many people playing on their site running away with people's money. Diceninja is another example.
i think that owners should make their identity public and that's how we can trust them.

i dont really trust any investor type dice sites anymore besides just-dice.

so as long its not that, im fine with it then i`d have to approve on the other elements mentioned above. Such as the basics of paying out, testing if there is any bugs etc that screws up a roll.

I just remember that day,... what a experience  ::)


Being trust need time and you need to prove it for being legit everyday.

Receive any suggestion from the expert to give more fair result.

Gathering all community by promoting it

Very naive idea.

There could be lots of companies that might scam somebody, but the owners don't get in trouble and for several reasons.
For example the company is headed to a nominee, or is located in a tax haven, or is run with a dummy companies structure.

Primedice didn't have any problem paying Hufflepuff his 2000 bitcoin win. I don't think we need to worry about their bankroll unless you are expecting to withdraw a very huge amount.

Any dice site that looks sketch, I dont even touch.

But, I really just read on the forums based on other peoples experience 1st then anything else. If a good dice site is already out there, why go anywhere else. They have to prove some type of credibility if anything else.  That usually takes 1 year minimum or more, since nothing in the btc world lasts that long unless they are doing something right.

For me, it takes like 2 secs to determine if I wana play on that site. Its usually based on if I can find any concerning answers that told in detail, or ignored. Also, majority complaining about something on the thread mention usually something about the site.

I think we have to check each bets to see that all bets are fair or not, calaulating as given in probably fair tab in any dice.

if it is well designed and it has been long in the market it must be trustable

Trust for what ?? for we get pay from that dice ? or for make we profit ?

Forum trust is the most important aspect.
If different people are sure that it is "provably fair", only then will I consider using the site.

popularity, age and number of players.. :)

Personally, I think it's the way the admin is involved that makes me trust him.

admin/boss's fame, like stunna or dooglus.  ;D They can be trusted.

If you have many customers, you wouldn't cheat them because if they find, they will leave.  ;D That's called:don't cheat on tiny profits, cheating will stop your future big profits.

Their history. When a site hasn't scammed any players for a year, I wouldn't expect the owner to suddenly become a bad guy.

Op are you asking for normal dice sites or are you asking about investment based dice sites ?

I think for normal sites time is sufficient. As for Investment based sites time and the identity of the person would be important .

Provably fair isn't a guarantee that a website will not cheat you, dicebitcoin would still be around if they had not. Unless the user is very diligent as was the case with dicebitcoin a bitcoin casino probably won't be caught for cheating. Any site that was continuously cheating over time would likely get caught at some point though.

Reputations are slowly built over time, in an anonymous environment though I'd only trust someone if they had more to lose than gain by cheating or if they had proven trustworthiness previously.

I'm obviously biased but In my opinion, Primedice and Just-Dice are the only dice sites that have more than proven their trustworthiness. Currently Primedice is responsible for 80-90%+ of the bitcoins wagered through dicing on any given week despite lacking the vital investment feature. This goes to show that the most important thing to players is reputation. I'm never interested in adding that feature in because I've built an environment where I can insure all user balances personally against my own holdings and there is no risk of failure for users.

On that note, there are a variety of new dice sites offering investments that I think are either highly unsustainable or untrustworthy and users should only proceed with a deep understanding of the risks.

I knew PD is the most popular dice site but I didn't know it is so popular. Is there a page where I can see the wagered stats on PD?

Yeah, nice to hear from you, I am fully support u, you are honest and famous in this forum, so that you made thousands of btc from PD(maybe more profits) Good management on PD. ;D

I will trust the site if it didn't had some serious complains in past and good customer support with clear bank roll shown on the site and of course the time how much older is the site and it popularity .

Personally I will choose the site that is the most popular among the community. But the provaly fair is a must.

i dont know from which sites stunna based this claim on

but according to the review from https://thebitcoinstrip.com/

it can be seen that PD is the most wwagered sites in bitcoin

You can find the daily wagered of several biggest sites on http://dicesites.com/graphs
According to the data there, PD has a market share of 77%, 90%, 79% and 84% for the first 4 days in March.

factors make me trust a dice site is community
fast support and fast deposit & withdraw ;)

I think the same! Mostly the community and the admin trust or relevance!

But, how many of you check the bet with provably fair system?

i hate when i lose 15times in a row

Only dice site I trust is Primedice been around for as long as I been into bitcoin. The owner is also generous with giving nice amounts of btc back to the players.

-when I know the site is well developed and secure, and not just a copy paste script
-when I know the site owner is trustworthy

Provably fair for smaller bets.
Good forum presence is a must for bigger bets.