Bitcoin Forum

Bettered this forum answer this question then someone who really want to destroy bitcoin.

buy all the coins
delete wallet!

wait no that wont work  :D

Sounds like someone's trying to up their post count. Working on a scam?

MS Paint
https://i.imgur.com/3WENR.png

damn, you found me out. Are you giving out loans by chance?

Three little words...

Eeee Emm Pee.

what?

A Pinch.

Legislation.

how could that ever destroy bitcoin?

Defamation through association. That's an effective way to kill an idea.

Mark my words, that's how special interest's will attack decentralized crypto-currency.

Well duh. Everyone knows only pedophiles use Bitcoin.

Agreed. It happened before. The thing is, the public has learned by now to some extent, and has grown rather cynical (well, apathetic, too) - so defamation might not be as effective as before.

Also, please cast your vote on a related topic in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90822.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90822.0)

My outlook has become very jaded, as every time I've come to expect some higher cognitive behavior from "the public" they always disappoint whenever an idea of such scale is presented.

The macro scale of Bitcoin is simply too extreme for most people to accept.

As with all things, time will tell.

Alright, what is the best way for bitcoin users to defuse defamation attacks?  I'd say the best way is by using btc, and being outspoken about it. Also, I find the Wiki PR page rather sensible - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Public_relations (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Public_relations)

I wish I had a more positive outlook, and I hope the community can come up with interesting ways like starting crowd-funding for charities and associating Bitcoin with the ability for people to collectively achieve great goals etc...

But personally, I'm planning for a worst case scenario.

My two bit-cents:

The beauty is that bitcoin doesn't really have to gain any more acceptance in order for it to be useful. As long as it maintains a steady value I could care less what the "masses" think or if they ever adopt it. I can use it as a "store of value" and "offshore bank account" in its current state. This is similar to gold and silver - the masses don't own it, don't spend it, and don't have a clue of its value. Meanwhile, gold and silver still shine and deliver.

Interesting point. Perhaps it's best if it never gets "big"...?

Make it technically painful to use bicoins and financially painful to hold them.

Quiet a few options, but fortunately, we aren't under complete tyranny (yet) and taking actions to "destroy bitcoin" would likely be of little benefit to whomever would try.

EMP :)

send them to a bitcoin address called "coins_go_here_to_die"

Governments declaring Bitcoin Exchanges illegal due to money laundering, at the same time shutting down MtGox and confiscate all the bitcoins in it.
Then the price will go under 50 cent and a lot of people would stop using bitcoins, like after the last year bubble but this time forever...
I think it will be not so difficult...

51% attack, spend some millions, get enough hashing power, do a 51% attack. Byebye bitcoin.

No jjames, they can send it to 1HWMQv2VYviAgpy6NWNvVg9JhKm4zcMGS5 instead :P

For real though... They can either buy up the exchanges and shut them down, or if their the government, go and confiscate all their equipment and impose punishment on the owners...

Easy, they can destroy bitcoin the same way they destroyed bit torrent... Oh wait... Yeah, better shut down the Internet then.

EMP wouldn't work, unless it's so massive we'd all have much bigger problems.  ;D

well your EMP wont do shit to my paper wallet now will it

HA bitcoin for the win! ;)

Bitcoin will evolve and become immune to all kinds of threats. I'm sure that in a few years btc will be online currency No.1.

That's a false comparison if you are honest.

First bittorrent is by a huge amount more decentralized than Bitcoin, and the decentralization of Bitcoin is shrinking, not growing.

Second bittorrent does not depend on frictionless integration with the traditional banking system like most of exchanging of fiat currency for bitcoins does which is what gives them there current exchange price.

It's unfortunately fairly easy to at the least significantly diminish the value of bitcoins and the use of Bitcoin if not out right destroying it by simply legislating it away. You forbid banks to accept funds coming from businesses dealing with bitcoins and label those few left who'd still do the mining as terrorists and hunt them down.

Of course when I say fairly easy I'm talking about the effects of such legislation not the difficulty of passing it all over the world and have it stick.. but this is something we will find out because there's not a shred of doubt in my mind they'll try to legislate it whether as an outright attack or in an attempt to control it.

Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

For governments to prosecute merchants who accept it.

Good luck moving that paper wallet through a non-existent blockchain that just got trashed with my universal global EMP Ray Of Electronical Destruction.

HA unspeakable Evil for the riposte!  ;D

I think it would happen in a defamation, hysteria, legislation cycle. Throw in a few high profile prosecutions/imprisonments/assassinations (presumably of "terrorists").

US would forbid citizens to own or trade BTC and throw them in jail if they do (tough to prove a person guilty, so new privacy invading laws will be needed).  That would delay Bitcoins adoption...maybe by several years, IMHO.

Nuke it from orbit.

Its the only way to be sure.

I take "destroy" to mean a near-zero market-cap and no real use of Bitcoin. Legislation and other forms of suppression can't achieve that, though they would drive the price down.

1. The most likely way Bitcoin could be destroyed would be the release and adoption of a superior protocol that serves the same purposes as Bitcoin. I'd put the probability of this happening in the next five years at over 10%.

2. Some emergent behavior of mining incentives makes it easier for some entity to control the block chain. Maybe mining pools get huge. Maybe mining gets taken over by specialized hardware.

3. Some cryptographic flaw in the protocol is discovered. (Seems very unlikely at this point.)

History shows making things illegal makes their price go up, not down.

+1, Look what happened with the alcohol prohibition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_during_and_after_prohibition

That's a bit of an ignorant observation to the demand side of the supply/demand equation that determines a price. It's a hell of a lot different to make something illegal that it being illegal likely isn't going to diminish it's demand than it is to make something illegal that it being illegal is very likely to severely diminish it's demand.

I find it unlikely demand will be diminished long term.  It may take time for everyone to move to TOR/I2P/Etc., but its usefulness won't be damaged, just the barrier to entry.

That's very dishonest when you look at how many demand orders currently stand on all the exchange combined compared to all the other options for acquiring bitcoins. Removing all this demand would instantly crash the price but also remove some of it's usefulness gained through the current low barrier to entry.

Best way to destroy bitcoin:

Refuse to trade with it, mine it and do nothing else other than sell your gains

It's dishonest to say a plausible theory about a potential future event is dishonest because you have no way of knowing the truth.

Supply will also fall as people will be unwilling to move to fiat if they can't move back just as easily.

Wrong again, supply would increase since people wont want to get stuck with an illiquid currency that they can't use to pay their bills. You'd only be right if bitcoin acceptance grows to the point where using them you could do virtually all of your transactions in the marketplace you typically need to or want to do. But since the attack I outlined is legislation forbidding businesses from using it this is highly unlikely the scenario to actually play out.

hazek is right, most of Bitcoin's value derives from its convertability with fiat money exchanges. If this goes, so does lots of its value as well as usefulness.

The comparison with alcohol or other drugs is idiotic because these goods' value derives from its consumption, not from convertibility with anything. Therefore, when production cost rises due to legislation, the price in the longer term will have to rise too, or else it cannot be profitable to produce.

Bitcoiners are quite stupid economically ignorant for the most part.

I like economically illiterate better :P and this goes for most people alive, like 99% (% pun intended  ;D)

Much better term, thanks. Just surprises me when such fallacies come from Bitcoin advocates.

Personally, if Bitcoins were not freely convertible like they are today and it could only be done at higher costs plus anonymously via shady avenues, the usefulness of Bitcoins to me would shrink enormously.

If a government has a problem with Bitcoin, MtGox will be target #1.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP (as DVDs can't store hundreds of GB of important data).I always thought that flash drives (solid state storage) would be the first to be fried. :/ I hope I'm wrong on that one.I'd also like my wallet to be safe as well.Any help is appreciated on this.Thanks.

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )

Home Made faraday cages ftw.

TL;DR  Cheap galv steel can, line inside with some sort of elec insulator, lid, bottom and inner sides. Raise bottom with an insulator by a few more inches. Fill with your electronic goodies. Grounding is optional though imho it is better. Just drive a large iron stake into the ground and wrap a nice piece of large guage copper wire around it and the can, coat it real good with some corrision resistant electrolitic gel and you're good to go.  Lot of decent Tube vids on it if anyone is interested.

cheers

Didn't see one, but i'm sure some devices encased in Permalloy or Mu-metal exist out there. The DIY solution would be wrapping the thumb drive with tinfoil, without touching the usb connector, and ground it somehow.

aye, place a small rubber cover over the connector and this idea should work.

Agreed!

I've opened a thread on how we best strengthen Bitcoin (= get more real Bitcoin economy going)
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90973.0

http://blockchain.info/fb/1dkybe
Someone already has 5% of all BTC :)

Indeed. I keep hearing about a "Bitcoin economy", while in reality, this is simply not the case, similarly to it being a "currency". Bitcoins are first and foremost a speculative asset and only secondarily a sort of intermediary for fiat on both sides (see Silk Road), while the quoted prices are typically from MtGox, and updated live. Your Bitcoins have no (or very little) actual value besides the fiat value attributed to it via exchanges.

Now, for the event these exchanges fall, we have a huge problem: As long as there are no relatively popular goods/services actually providing a "backing" for BTC by setting sticky prices (which they adhere to), no arbitrage can occur from the fiat world to raise the Bitcoin value and set a floor, since buying in Bitcoins would be cheaper if their price goes down. Furthermore, to have any sort of economy, the majority of market participants need to receive their wages in Bitcoins, not fiat money.

I know this is nearly impossible to change since there is simply no Bitcoin nation, society or even village, and because Bitcoin excels only in internet transactions, but it amazes me when people hype stuff like Bit-Pay's recent spike in transactions due to BFL sales and a "major" Euro flight into Bitcoins as if it were indicative of any sort of economy.

ASIC... (sorry, I do not speak English ..) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30775.msg989113#msg989113 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30775.msg989113#msg989113)   and the rest of the text ..

Why would all the exchanges fall at once?

Also, I've received wages in Bitcoin.

Naysay all you want.  In the mean time others are creating this economy, and we don't even mind if your speculative bets benefit.

Alcohol has exactly the same effect on your  brain, regardless of its legal status. The usefulness of bitcoin can and will be damaged if bitcoin businesses are having legal problems. That is an important distinction. You might be using btc over tor/i2p to trade on SR, but bitcoin can and currently does much more.

Maybe that should be...
Tee Eeee Emm Pee Eee Ssss Teeee ;)

/ThinFoilHatOFF

...just thought of another way bitcoin might get destroyed...

What if Satoshi isn't gone... What if he is here, working on the protocol, client or a BTC business in our midst...and holds a few million Bitcoins...and we all realized our efforts at promoting bitcoin were only serving to keep the price up while he sold his coins....

Please note, there is no fact here...there is nothing to suggest this is true.

Oh, and I hope this isn't necroposting...I don't want a text laden image of a creepy guy reprimanding me.

How would that destroy Bitcoin? The network will continue functioning as normal. The price would take a hit, but will quickly stabilise. In fact, anyone not closely following the price might not even notice that anything unusual had happened. The only real effect would be that Satoshi suddenly becomes several million dollars richer - and in my opinion, he's earned every cent of it.

I don't have tips for destroying Bitcoin, but if you want to destroy a bitcoin send to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE.

All that would be needed to counter this is an extension past 8 decimal expansion. As computing power progresses, older keys can be cracked, thus restoring access to 'destroyed' bitcoins.


None have ever relied upon market forces to adapt their currency value, neither have they ever shifted the decimal to the right - only to the left. Gold was the only form of money to accomplish this, and economies based on the gold standard only destabilized because of limited practical divisibility.


Actually, notme is more right in the long-term. Currently, association with value is highly related to exchange rates, the most prevalent being the US dollar. As the Bitcoin economy grows, it will become less dependent upon external metrics and be used as a measure of wealth itself. That is simply a change from items being priced in $ to being denominated in BTC.

As for the comparison, it is not entirely accurate, but it is still very valid. The incentive for use can be far greater than the legal risk, resulting in elevated demand. If there is anything that can be supplied to meet the demand while returning sufficient profit for the risk, it will be provided. Money is no different, it just has a more nebulous use case because it is universal. For an example, just look at any country with a deteriorating domestic currency which outlawed the US dollar or gold, yet experienced rising use of them among the population.

All of the other methods so far have been too 'centric' - as in, focused on a country or region. Cultural, societal, and even genetic variations guarantee that you can't fool everyone all of the time. If Bitcoin continues to be seen an improvement over what exists now, it will keep growing no matter the opposition. Period.

Targeting the developers might be more effective; attacking the vulnerable pseudo-head instead of the amorphous body. Until Bitcoin is at a point where usage is widespread enough that most people are familiar with it, and no new technical threats are both foreseeable and realistically feasible, there are a number of ways to erode but not destroy the system.

Well.. if it is going up insanely fast while Satoshi is unloading it'll really get interesting when he's finished.