Bitcoin Forum

Dear Community,

We have developed the first Provably Fair for Investors and Players Bitcoin dice game.
Our platform offers a slick and friendly user interface, keyboard shortcuts support, chat box and real-time detailed statistics.
House edge is only 1% and we will keep low commission on divestments for a limited time, in order to attract investments.

What does Provably fair for Investors and players mean?

Our game algorithm is "Provably Fair", each and every roll can be verified instantly, which means that we cannot alter in any way the rolls outcome.
Generally, this is true for players but not for investors, as the site operator has knowledge of the server seeds generated by the software and could, in fact, predict all lucky numbers.
We have developed a specific solution to this issue : a stand-alone roll server, to be deployed on a machine managed by large investors, or an highly trusted third party.

The roll server task is to generate a server seed for each request and calculate the lucky number for each roll played on the site.
Generated server seeds are stored locally on the trusted machine and only revealed when discarded, on player input. The game back-end only requires their sha256 hashes to operate.
Our solution removes knowledge of the server seeds from anyone who operates the site, making it impossible to play against the investors and steal their money.
All relevant code will be reviewable by the parties, or by an external auditor nominated by the parties.

Additionally, investors funds will be stored in a multi signature cold wallet with a 2-of-3 address, where we would have knowledge of 1/3 of the keys required, while the
other 2/3 of the keys would be shared with the trusted parties. This scenario provides some degree of protection to investors if one of the parties disappears for any reason or refuses
to cooperate. All transactions from the cold-wallet to the site hot-wallet would have to be authorised and signed by both us and one of the two trusted parties.

We are looking for a partnership with an highly trusted community member, and/or interested investors.  The site url will be disclosed at later date.

You are trying to build a big bankroll using investors trusts. What you said is spoken a lot in this forum in past. I hope you did it well.

Also I assume site is off-chain? If so betting will be so low.

Yes, betting is off-chain, what do you mean by "betting will be so low" ?

Thanks for your input

I said because you said the seeds will be on the other server. So in every bet user will make a HTTP request to remote server to get his seed? This should slowed the betting.

The server seed is hash is retrieved when the account is created and every time a player chooses to refresh it.
The lucky number on the other hand, is retrieved on every roll via HTTP request, so this might cause an overhead, however we did not experience a degradation of performances in our testing.

A newbie with an activity of 2 trying to raise money from investors.
I wish you luck, but hope that you are for real. Anyone wanting to invest please beware.

Thank you, we are for real indeed.  We reached out to a few highly trusted members of the community and submitted our code for review as well.
I have invited some of them to add to the discussion in this thread, hopefully it will help to clear our intentions.

Agreed, this is going to turn well for everyone.  ::)

We did not even advertise an url yet  :P

Jokes apart, we understand that any attempt to raise funds will arise suspicions and have to deal with it.

People are thinking new members of this community are fraud, because of people stupids in the past(DB,DN,..).
If you don't trust a user, do not say "beware, this guy must be theft". Simply, do not money to his business and shut your up until you sure it's a scam.

Also I don't trust and I won't invest anything, related to bitcoin.

Isn't off chain really slow for betting?

You still haven't solved the problem of someone able to know the seeds - the house investors who manage the machine even if they are trustworthy could simply look up the winning seeds themselves and play consistently here and there and never draw any attention and win thousands off the total investment pool.

Investors would be playing against themselves in that case, and stealing their own money.

I've seen this problem on Just-Dice, and I know me and dooglus have thought of this as a solution at least once, but it still requires trust of the party that holds the server. It's an interesting solution, but I'm eager to see how it works out.

Of course off-chain betting is really slow, off and on aren't comparable even. But I thought that, in every bet, a user will make a HTTP request to remote server, not when a user change them.

They are saving user seeds to site DB, so what OP is doing is unnecessary process.

I have asked dooglus to check our code and eventually run the roll server, but i guess he is very busy with his own business at the moment.

lol...."Hey dooglus can you help us, a competitor of your site, test our site to see if it would be good enough to take some of the market share from you" is essentially what you're asking.

Well, in my book he offered a similar partnership to other site operators before, and his site is using CLAM at the moment, so we aren't direct competitors. Plus, he would be earning income playing this role.

No, the lucky number is retrieved on every bet, not the server seed hash. Why do you think we are taking unnecessary steps ?

Because you will be able to see users seeds from a basic admin panel, so you can play against the your investors.

No, this is incorrect, we won't see any server seeds before they are published by players. We will only see their sha256 hashes.

Specifically, server seeds are saved on the machine managed by the trusted parties, and only revealed when discarded.

Without looking into the technical details of how exactly you are pulling this off, I have to say the solution to having a provably fair investing system in bitcoin betting sites is a huge break though  :)

You can't get the server seed from its sha256 hash. One point which could be discussed is that we would know details about the RNG, but there are solutions to this.

By the way, are you interested in checking out the code ? 

That's like saying, if you have suspicions of someone being dangerous don't warn people about him/her until you're sure. That's ridiculous, there's no harm in warning people that this may be a scam since a lot of people with bitcoin will invest in nearly anything. Look at ponzi schemes for example.

Centralization is NOT the answer to this problem!

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-today-we-know-that-centralization-and-big-bureaucracies-have-not-as-promised-been-the-answer-for-carlos-salinas-73836.jpg

As a community we need to be backing decentralized solutions over centralized options. As long as parts of the system are closed source and centralized there is the potential for dishonest players to take advantage of others. Especially when the incentive becomes big enough.

While being generally accepted as correct, this specific logic does not apply to the issues we are dealing with.

is there anyone says: "beware, this guy must be theft" ?

in my opinion, it's ok for us to warn each other :) that's what community for

We got in touch with a few members to discuss further details of the deal we are proposing. We would like to hear from more interested parties as well.

How could that be so first? ;)

Our site backend is modular, the roll server is a stand-alone component that can be deployed on a machine we do not have control of, as a consequence, we won't have knowledge of the server seeds and couldn't predict any roll outcome. This would render totally impossible playing against the site investors. It's the first implementation of this kind, as far as we know.

How are you gonna be able to proof that you do not have control of the roll server?
How trusted would that third party that is in control of the server be?
What will happen if the server crashes or has any other sort of technical problem?

The server will be managed by a major investor or a group of investors. That means that they will have direct interest in ensuring that we do not have access to the system.
We tested extensively our software and can say it is stable, anyhow, in case of a failure we will assist directly the involved parties in order to solve the issue.