Bitcoin Forum

An RPG scammer explains how to run a Ponzi scheme, and how he used his experience to detect another. Thanks to people on IRC for digging this up.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/)
http://web.archive.org/web/20091021193732/http://geocities.com/currintrading/bank.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20091021193732/http://geocities.com/currintrading/bank.html)

Read it and weep. If you really read it, you will know why to weep.

So, which are the scam here in bitcoin world, and why?

Just read it carefully enough. If this doesn't tell, I won't be able to do any better. Pay attention to the details, especially where he comments when his visible activities made no sense and how he avoided making that fact too obvious. Also his problem with the early whale; can you think of a way to prevent that?

All of it. A giant déjà vu, so massive that to not see it, you must want to not see it.

Exactly. Do you know a lot of ponzy that stop new depositor and force withdrawal of unwanted one? That limits new depositors? Or announce one month ahead a lower of rates.

I read your links and that didn't looked like pirate's "thing".

I know pirate's rate are insane, but there's some things that are not ponzy like. Or that are some very clever tricks to make the scheme looks legit. I can't make my mind up actually :/

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

I found this paragraph interesting:

" My phantom team became very useful to me. They were the perfect excuse and scapegoat for anything that did not go right or measure up to my clients' expectations. When people asked whether they could join Currin Trading (and there were many applicants), the decision always went to "the team". How did I end up on your mailing list? Ask the team. Would you do this or that for me? I'll talk it over with the team and get back to you. I want to help, and I certainly trust you, but ultimately it's up to the team. "

Anyone who won't say what they intend to invest your money in, and won't explain how they plan to make money from doing so, can't be trusted. That's the first hurdle they should have to jump, and if you're not even demanding THAT, you're just giving your money away.

We should all know this by now.

I read it all, start to finish.  It is an interesting, though typical, tale of how a ponzi scheme works.  Fortunately, I haven't "invested" any of my bitcoin with any scheme that offers potential returns without investigating and ensuring that I fully understand where the returns are coming from, as well as understanding what the strengths and risks are associated.  Therefore, I don't see any reason to weep.

Okay, let me help you. Remember the problem with "the Whale" in the beginning, and the operator trying to adjust to it? Imagine he had limited deposits from the start, to keep growth close to interest until he loosens it at the very end. It increases the running time and therefore the potential overall growth!

But it's not just that one. I want people to really grasp the concept; I doubt BS&T is the only place where coins will disappear in the near future.


Well, true, but unfortunately we will probably feel the shake-up even if we're not directly hit. The HYIP mania has grown enough to at the very least give us more bad press.

What a magnificent read, thank you very much OP I really enjoyed it!

Thanks Vandroiy.
Actually I think the biggest problem (for those non invested in ponzy) is that it sucks the capital from other more legitimate (or transparent) business, who can't compete with the rate.

This is not a big problem for bitcoin future though, because of some of the project announced (like the bitcoincard) which will be real game changers.

But back to the ponzy subject :)

Wow,...
so I wanted to know how it went down, and read:


Five years later (2011), it all happened again:




 - http://www.nowgamer.com/mmo-worlds/1401770/eve_onlines_greatest_moments_its_a_cruel_world_out_there.html

 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5I6GcV6jE8

The cash value of the entire haul?   About $50,000 USD worth.  

And all this fraud just because people are financially and economically illiterate.  :-\

Yeah the writing was indeed really good. I could read a whole book about it. There were numerous moments when I laughed out loud or made out loud comments to myself about how intelligent, sneaky, precise and thought out his strategies were.

I don't even know if those terms apply. It wasn't just them not knowing what questions to ask about the "investments." I mean, even scammers fell for them. It seems like such frauds simply cater to the greedy: if your greed overpowers your knowledge and diligence, then you get burned.

I also just now realized how much money these scams netted after Stephen's post above. Funny how the author of the article never once mentioned the USD/Euro/etc. value of what he stole. All the better to let himself sleep, I suppose.

This was the sum once mentioned, and yes a good read, thanks.

Thanks for sharing this, it's a really entertaining read!

Fascinating read.

Bingo. We are ALL susceptible to this.

This is an interesting psychological discussion...but I don't see anything about BTC. Should this be moved to one of the general off topic boards? Or maybe just a pirate hating board? Can we make a special one of those?

Epic story, this is movie material

Of course I posted it because of the extreme analogies to "Bitcoin Savings and Trust". This is very relevant to Bitcoin right now.

Virtually all the HYIPs are Ponzi schemes.

Although at the same time, if they DID tell you exactly what they were doing, what would stop you from doing the same and cutting them out?

And furthermore, what if they were doing something illegal to get that return, and only by not telling you were you protected from liability? There are a couple 'investment funds' running around that I suspect aren't ponzi's but rather money laundering. Would you really want to know it made you an accessory to a crime?

YES, as it would be exposing me to additional counterparty risk of having my assets frozen.

I understand the risk there, but I personally wouldn't be looking for specifics. Something like "I'm turning over real estate", or "My clients invest the money to sell baked goods." Even "I'm mixing coins" would be something, but not too much of something to threaten his model.

Even bitscalper at least claimed to have a high-tech arbitrage bot.



Yes, I would personally want to know, as it might affect my decision to invest (not everyone is willing to just do anything to make a buck, so long as they can't be held liable.)

Frankly, if the returns come from something like that, it's a bad, bad idea to solicit investors from a public forum anyway, for any number of reasons. One being the possible fallout on the forum community.

Thanks for posting this. If the moderators had any sense of decency, this thread would be stickied in every subforum.

This should be stickied under Lending.

Excellent read, but this is still considered "small time" in eve online.

The largest was a few years back when someone created the "Eve intergalactic bank"

Ran off with 700+billion and that was valued at $190k usd or so.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/34217

If you want to check out eve online, remember to buy PLEX off me :)

It has been many years since I have read this. Thanks for the link. It was just as interesting of a read this time as the last.

i think its an awfull read.......and kindergardenlike ...by comparison to pirates accomplishments and turnover!

if thats the base he is accused off , then we should built him a monument
for delivering a 5 times better run ponzi......and he is far far ahead ...as if somebody could hit the treasure this way.

Correct is  that he hasn´t construed a compelling story yet and if never being able to do so, the scheme may collapse

earlier than it need to . Now is the time for the real story and that is: bitcoins are the new world reserve currency....

fuck your dollars, euros, renminbis......everybody..of course the criminals first want their assets move to bitcoin...

pirate is meeting the chinese tycoons, the vegas multimillion dollar gamblers, the frustrated savers all around the world,

bitcoinmax is available in every thinkable language, Mugabe is asking for an bitcoin exchange and the nigerians want to buy on ebay as well......

1 quadrillion dollars shadow banking liabilities.......verses 21 million bitcoins......God helpme...7 % weekly growth is a pittance

Zyk the Oracle speaks again!!

every intrest accureing currency system is a ponzi thats not oraceling thats a fact ;)

but management is important.......peer to peer busts sombody at helm either way

While I hope Bitcoin continues to grow and succeed, I would hardly consider it the world reserve currency with such a low marketcap right now. Maybe in time.

if pirate is not coming up with the right or at least some kind of compelling story....where even the contra PPT crowd

likes to work for...bitcoin community could get this going in no time..... if not all schemes collapse..

and i could buy some coins on the cheap ;D

You could have at least read the whole thing before looking like a tool.

That's actually a misconception, since if you are a producer you can earn the exact same money over and over again as it circulates through the economy.

The "compound interest paradox" functions only on the assumption that all money is only spent once.  It is a farce.  Even if I borrowed $50,000 in an economy with $100,000 of total money available, I could earn that 50 times over if I produced enough.  Not saying I'd like to work my balls off like that, but it can be done, and that's the point.  The compound interest paradox is something touted by greenbacker "debt-free" money crazies who want to hand the printing press over to the political class directly, instead of the central banks, who are beholden to the banking system (you only get HIGH inflation from central banks, hyperinflation only comes from the political class because it wipes out the banking system, too).

Under hyperinflation, a farmer walks into a bank and pays off the entire nominal loan on his acreage and operations with a few flats of eggs.  The bank is done.  This does not happen with central banking and the current monetary setup we have here.  25% inflation annually for a while, sure - wipes out the middle class, takes the load off of the biggest debtors (banks and governments), and transfers wealth up to those who own the most non-financial assets.  Banks are also the biggest creditors, and creditors get destroyed by hyperinflation.

P.S. This was a great read, OP.  Thanks for sharing.

I can't believe people try to make money in EVE by investments when corps exist in nulsec.

You really don't need to participate in potential scams to get ahead in the game, those are for suckers. Get into a good corp and they'll take care of you. They'll outfit you with ships for missions because they value the strength of numbers. The best ones all ask for application fees before you can join, but once you're in, you're set for life. You'll be making more cash from ops than you ever thought existed in the game, you'll never have to pay for game time again because you'll be able to buy PLEX.