Bitcoin Forum

I've recently got into Bitcoin and I really like it. I can see its benefits for everyone. I use it for purchases when available, but I am also trying to find a good way to invest. I'm not interested in cloud mining. Any suggestions?

buy and hold ... like gold or brick.  ;)
but you can try to buy a miner device to view how it's difficult to mine bitcoin with little budget (less than 250 000 USD).


 ;D

You might like to invest in the bankroll of dice sites. But, the reason for not investing in cloud mining also exists there ;)

Paycoin.

The best way to invest in bitcoin is to buy bitcoin and hold on to it.

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

And for sure, stay away from altcoins in general and paycoin in particular.

I like just sitting by the fire and watching my investment vaporize into thin air.

and then, monday append ... when the usual +8% ... per hour.  ;D

I had it on a gambling site as the bankroll before, worked out alright.

I invest in paper wallets. Putting your BTC in a safe place seems to be the safest thing to do nowadays. After the initial growth has waned now and people are more cautious when it comes to investing in unregulated markets, an investment in BTC alone is quite risky.

Yah, I was trying to "invest" through much of 2013, ... 2014 was all about sweeping up the ashes... and I didn't get into any of the scams from the outset scams. Apart from certain short periods in the life of other investments, like AsicMiner shares going from ~ 0.5 BTC to 4.x BTC over about 3 months, there wasn't any "growth". As far as I can see, banking the house on reputable (non-ponzi, scam or hyip) gambling sites was the one sure earner. I believe Prime Dice was one of the better ones.

Some people have had luck with BTC loans, during the last year, but considering the BTC price has been on the slide, it's been freaking easy to borrow BTC at $550 and pay back 120% at $350... borrowers are probably laughing. Even a modest uptrend will probably see a whole lot more defaults. Plus you have like a triple counterparty risk, 1st the loan broking site, 2nd the actual borrowers, and 3rd which way traders are gonna push the price..

Anyway, gambling is about the only "pure" BTC business, that actually has a good model which ever way the price is going. Other ventures, like mining, if you're in one when the price has a sudden spike then you might seem to get a brief good ride, but in general the value of their equipment is halving every 6 months or less, and so does your shares, if the BTC price goes high, then tonnes more miners come online diluting your share, so you don't win then. Other options are basically fiat businesses denominated in BTC, sure the way they do the books you might get a fiat profit, but if BTC is rising, looks like you're losing it.

Be careful, a recent "investment company" was advertising on this forum. They offered sick returns (like percent per day) for balances held with their firm. They were around for about 3 weeks and then disappeared, taking all account balances with them.

How does one invest in Primedice? You can actually put money toward their operations and get a piece of the earnings? Or are people using the word "invest" in place of the word "gamble"?

You dont. PD never allowed to "invest", just-dice did.


You gamble with the bank and house edge, yes. Doog (runs JD) often said "invest" was the wrong term and gave people wrong ideas.

Just hold them...do not invest them. The chances of you investing and making a profit are so slim it is pathetic. Avoid cloud mining like the plague also.

I get the most enjoyment from investing my Bitcoin in projects that allow me to participate in their growth by buying their products or using their services.  I currently hold Asicminer shares and NastyFans seats.  While I'm obviously biased towards NastyFans, I am impressed by the evolution of friedcat's creation.  If Bitcoin is truly successful, it will be great to look back and feel like I participated in some of the early stages of these projects.  Sort of the same reason why I collect Casascius Coins and other various Bitcoin goods that I feel have staying power.

Really? Thought they did at one point. I might be thinking of someone else, but Just Dice doesn't sound right.

I am pretty sure. Stunna is so anti "investment" PD would have to be run by someone else in the past, which is not the case AFAIK.

It would be nice if one could have the opportunity to invest in BTC startups that function as ecosystem peripherals and help the community overall become easier to use by outsiders. Mining ops typically don't measure up by turning BTC into hashing power; other so-called businesses can be shady and offer something steady and too good to be true - which pays for a while then vanishes; it's best to buy and hold and let the BTC protocol and its value to the investing for you - just wait. However, CryptoVest financial services is one startup that I have put coinage in that seems to be on a trajectory that will grow into something legit and has a transparent bunch running it.

as usual said you cand buy and hold
dont use ponzi's
be carefull when u play gambling :)

I do not trust any company or site enough to invest my bitcoin. The risks are much too high. I might end up loosing my capital for a small profit.

In our dice site ;D

Most bitcoin investmenst are scam. But if you really want to lose money, you can do it with style.
I've created virtual company for Dr. Zoidberg and I need test subjects for this experiment. You only need to buy some shares, they are very cheap  :)

https://masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=colzoidy (https://masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=colzoidy)

Company description is here:
https://www.coinprism.info/asset/AX3D7g2fh3ab82vrNDEED2AZ1rkdkX2i8U (https://www.coinprism.info/asset/AX3D7g2fh3ab82vrNDEED2AZ1rkdkX2i8U)

This is not regular scam. It's double scam.
Are you scared?

I think there is long way to we reach somewhat safe and profitable bitcoin investments. For now most of bitcoin investments are ponzy schemes or scam.

My fund, SafeHash, has a 43.7% APY and is fully backed by cryptocurrency deposits exceeding the value of the fund. This was proven during the collapse of LTCgear when I placed a bid for over 60% of the fund's value to help some nervous nellies sell out. Usually we keep the backing in USDbitfnx and other extremely liquid cryptocurrency assets (such as CLAMS in Just-Dice) but as of late I've decided to start keeping at least 50% in actual NXT or BTC.

Recently I've been trying to make inroads to the BTC community. It would start with us taking positions in BTC community assets. But you are right -- all I have seen here are a lot of trolls and scams. If you want, I'll open a private account for you denominated in BTC. This will help you find a good place to invest, and it will also help me down the road when I try to get listed on one of the major BTC exchanges like CryptoStocks or Coinsortium. Check us out on nxtforum.org, we've been in operation for several months and our management strategy is unique across all cryptocurrency investments: we guarantee you won't lose your initial investment.

Like many others have said just buying bitcoins is an investment in itself, especially in times where big currencys like the EUR & USD may be heading down or into a deep recession/depression that might last for many years. So investing some into precious metals like Gold, Platinum, Silver, agricultural land, forrest property, electricity producing equipment like solar panels windpower, digital currencys may be a very wise move to secure your assets if the paper money of your country may loose (most of) its value in the future.

In the btcinvestment sector there is many different stock exchanges but there hasent been a high number of stocks that has been profitable to just buy & hold so what you possibly could do is do things like arbitrage between different exchanges for basically garanteed profit if done right.
Its also possible to lend out digital currency, safest would of cource be in cases where the borrower have security to offer you, one can also lend to out in unsecured loans on lending sites like btcjam witch has around 1000 activated loans per month.
Btcjam post some stat from time to time about the performance, some months ago they mentioned that the overall repayment rate was 87% and that the repayment rate for A rated borrower had been 98% during 2014.
If you would have invested evenly on all A rated borrowers loan you would have made 22-28% profit during 2014 accourding to btcjams official numbers depending on if you invested in normal BTC loans or USD tied loans. For B rated borrowers the numbers were 18,38%/4,12%, C rated 13,65%/-1,05% and so on.
Lending out btc in unsecured loans is of course risky just like any investment in the btcworld is but If your able to avoid most of the loans that dont get payed back or only gets partially payed back or your able to collect the missing payments throu collecting agencys/courtsystem in the borrowers country you could of couse do way better than those numbers to but its a learning process to get to know what loans to invest in and what loans/borrowers to avoid. If you decide to try it out i recommend that you start with a learning period of a few months where you only invest small amount and evaluate your result so you get better at screening loans before investing bigger. Something like 50%-100% yearly interest is surely possible to achieve as a lender on btcjam if your good at it.

How do I invest my Bitcoins?

I take my BTC and convert them to USD. Then I put them in a low-fee index fund. Done.

Seriously, don't "invest" any more than you're willing to lose and keep your standard of living. Play safe!

I invested 2 years ago on BTCJam, 0.05 BTC. Never saw it again.

I have some negligible altcoins on cryptostocks for fun. So far so good.

Unwisely, apparently... :'(

Investing in Bitcoin right now is an especially risky thing many stocks are down. ASICMiner could still be an underdog, but even they are struggling. If you don't want to risk losing your total investment, just hold your coins, really!

An unfortunately expensive lesson i learned is that even if you can get 50% per year for an investment, its still better to have your coins in hand. Because if the investment goes wrong you have lost the coin. So holding instead investing is often the better investment decision.

Next thing is... never never never do investment decisions based on emotions. Its the same for trading. Its pretty much always the wrong thing. Only be rational and dont let you push because of time moving.

I think thats those are the most important things i learned expensively.

Banks also do "investment" in form of loans to people. The reason that loans have a high payback 30-45% and more is because the bank knows from statistics that x% of the loans will not be paid back and they will lose it. They do a risk assessment and calculate how much % they should charge for loans so that they come out positive even if some loans remain unpaid.

Of course banks have much more experience, knowledge and data to make decision than a single individual (unless he/she works exactly with this).

As I said above, I have invested coins and lost them on the given site. However I have invested elsewhere too and made a profit there. In general I like to think that I made a profit.

So I think that if you know how to invest (e.g. not everything in one place) then investing could very well be a valid option.

It is of course. But even when youre very sure, Bitcoin World is a very dangerous pool. If you check the amount of securities that go wrong then its astonishing. If they dont run scammy, they get hacked or the issuer is simply inept. If you invest in a number of things in the bitcoin area then the chance of losing everything is very high. Thats why i say that not investing is often the better investment since many many sure looking investments were driven to the wall too.

I look for good ideas and especially good people. They must have a legally registered business in the U.S., a business plan that demonstrates the financial solvency of the business, and are willing to sign a contract.
I would NEVER do business with less than these factors. Without them you do not have an investment at all. You have a promise from a kid on the internet. You need the legal backing to sue them if they scam you. Only a written contract is really useful in court.

Any professional crypto trading groups out there yet?  Would be nice to see a reputable one take hold.

Interestingly, dice sites and other Bitcoin gambling sites proved to be one of the few occurrences with an actually reliably positive EV. Unfortunately a lot turned out to be faulty (someone broke the bank), the operators ran away with the investors' money or some other stunt. Be very careful with small and unknown sites!

It would be nice if a large company like Coinbase crowdsourced their next investment series and allowed a decentralized way (Counterparty?) to allow for bitcoin investments. These investments could then be traded and paid interest on as a bond or dividends in a stock. It would be HUGE if coinbase was the first company to essentially sell bonds/stocks in a manner like this whether it be decentralized through counterparty or even centralized for now, a start is a start :)

How many sites are there still actually who offer securities, now Havelock is in its longest downtime so far? I do believe that they'll be back, complete with everyone's money, but that could be a nice opportunity to look left and right for alternatives! :)

I have a federally incorporated Canadian corporation. I don't see a problem with incorporating a US corporation (if it MUST be in the US) and funding it, if you want to talk real money. We are an international real estate holding company. PM me if you're interested in some of our opportunities.

That will never happen. They just closed funding at a $400mm valuation, the next time they raise funding will likely be through public means, on an actual exchange, I would guess NASDAQ. No real company will ever use Counterparty or NXT's exchange.

If you talk traditional bitcoin stockexchanges we have cryptostocks & coinsortium, then if one check under assets on coinmarketcap one can find a number of other platforms that stocks are listed on like Nxt, Counterparty, BitShares, Mastercoin (Omni) & Horizon, how those all work i dont know but i guess its described somewhere on the forum.

Just buy them and hold. Not try to invest in cloudminingservices :(

I gotta say... The past few days or weeks have taught us to just cling to our petty stash of coins and don't invest them - anywhere. Even if Havelock pulls through, the number of honest companies in the Bitcoin world appears to have shrunken to zero. Even AM's very own friedcat has gone missing...

Yeah it seems like there currently are no viable stocks left to invest in. Even the most trustworthy ones (AM, AMHash) have now gone missing, or at least FC did... Sad to see this go down...

Hold it or spend it. That's at least yours. Currently there are no really trustworthy place for investments and no trustworthy stuff to invest into.

I recently have received profit from btcjam, not everything its bad, the only things is that somes users have bad experiencies and dont like try again in others things, maybe for fear, dont know, if you have courage, go to primedice and gamble your btc when you double it just ran

I once invested in labcoin.... Does anyone remember this? It was in my younger days, but it made me stop bitcoin for a long, long while. Does anyone know what happened to those guys?

Well, if you really want to take a gamble with potentially enormous profits, invest in ASICMiner now... But please keep in mind that the odds are that FC really disappeared (forcefully?!) and you won't see a single Satoshi ever again.

I've really arrived at a point where I get the cries for regulation. This is just insane and while I like the trust less system of Bitcoin in its core, I'm now certain that this doesn't work in terms of funding a company and keeping the investors safe...

Wasn't this obvious from day one?  How can we have a global monetary system without regulations?  It wouldn't work.  The scammers would fleece everyone.  This way only the the govt and banks get to rob the people.  ;)

ShitCoins never die; just multiply.

Well if I may chime in, I gotta say, AM had a pretty good run over the first year or so. They gave the investors 600% ROI, which can almost be described as 'unprecedented' I guess... You don't see that very often. Like, at all.

Labcoin wasn't some scammy altcoin. It was a mining corporation, which everyone got their hopes up high for. People anticipated returns like AM gave them. But the whole thing went belly-up insanely fast.

Something like that.  Think of government as your shepherd.
He maketh you to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth u beside the still waters, etc., etc.  Sure, He wants you for your wool & tasty meat, that's a given.
But, when it comes to wolves, His interests are aligned with yours.

TL;DR:  Just because you'll eventually end up on His dinner table doesn't mean the wolves are your friends.  Those will eat you right away, it'll be gory & painful to even watch, because shit table manners.

i converted a bit of btc into nxt and bought some assets. they pay out in nxt (which can obviously be converted back into btc). its been working well for me since mid-january.

I wouldn't suggest investing in any Bitcoin related businesses because of the rate at which investor based businesses involving Bitcoin turn out to be scams or do not fulfill there part of the deal. If you want to invest why not just convert your Bitcoin to cash and put it into stocks?

if u bought nxt a year ago u would have lost. however i have been buying nxt and putting into dividend paying assets for the last two months and have done very well. they pay in nxt and i convert it into btc each week. ymmv but so far so good.

https://pocketrocketscasino.eu allows an invest in the house bankroll feature.

Pocket Rockets Casino is the number one trusted crowd funded Bitcoin gambling site with over 2600 Bitcoin invested.
The site currently has a total profit for investors at 1474 Bitcoin, almost all made from October last year on the dice game.

At the start of the year I added a leverage system where you can keep less Bitcoin on site, reducing counter party risk.

What has the avg preformance during the sites excistance been for those that has invested in the bankroll of the site when that option has been avaliable, is there any official numbers published somewhere for what the avg interest per day/week/month/year is and has been in the past ?

Well, seeing as your trust lating is in the negative, I guess I'll refrain from sending my coins to you :) Thanks for the invitation, though. I'll hold on to my fat stack of bitcoins

actually he's totally legit. his trust is only negative because of some overzealous dumbass named bayareacoins, not from any scam. he has one of the longest running most legitimate investment sites out there and has been #1 for quite some time.

that all said, ill pop my head into this thread every now and then seeing if anyone ever contributes a good idea itt. i wish there was legit stuff to invest in, it just all reeks of bullshit out there unfortunately.

btc has such unbelievable potential if people werent such scum.

If the whole AM ordeal has taught me anything it's that even the most legit-seeming and honest people may, at some point, turn evil. Everyone's a human being, and humans have the tendency to protect themselves first.

The investment option started around this time last year. Traffic and investment didn't really pick up until around July and then have continued to grow since.

Since around October 2014 the investors have made 1450 Bitcoin, with around 400 of that being since January this year.

It is hard to get a solid estimate of expected ROI and from week to week it has been different almost every week for the past 8 months.
However it has averaged around 1-1.5k Bitcoin wagered per week for the past 2 month. The expected profit in that case is 10-15 Bitcoin per week but it varies a lot.


As pointed out by theskillzdatklls that trust has been given unfairly.
I actually am not particularly looking for any more investment. Pocket Rockets Casino already has the most invested of any Bitcoin gambling site and has the highest max payout because of this.

The main reason I added the leverage system was so that there didn't need to be as many Bitcoin stored on site. The total invested could be reduced a huge amount if all investors used 10x leverage.

However for people who are looking for a safe place to invest with a good ROI then there's not many places better than Pocket Rockets Casino.

Consider that for every coin gleaned from a gambling site, someone else lost at least one coin to that gambling site. So sure, play and walk away a winner but remember some poor chump is walking away a loser. That's the nature of gambling. It's the same with mining altcoins; the only winners are the guys that leave in time to walk away with whatever was put in by everyone else.

The only business I've ever invested in, that wasn't just purchasing hardware, is my own. It's not that I don't trust anyone else to not screw me over, it's just I don't like investing because I'd much rather work for a living than sit back and watch someone else pay me to let them work. It's partially for that reason that we don't take in any investment money from anyone else - our only revenue stream is the direct sale of goods (either manufactured or value-added, we will not profit from middlemanning) and services. Another good reason being, when someone owns a share of my work, someone has paid me for the right to influence decisions even if he's not actually doing any work himself and that's both stupid and a recipe for someone getting screwed. Mining bitcoins directly, and selling goods and services within the bitcoin economy, has been my full-time income for a little over a year now.

I take offense to the consideration that there are zero honest businesses in the bitcoin economy. It's close to zero, but not zero yet.

That's almost the definition of a Ponzi, except that this is mathematically founded. I think it's highly interesting, it effectively is a high-pressure cooker in which the last remaining decency of humanity will prevail and we can built on top of that in the future.

Bitcoin in itself is an investment - investing bitcoins just further increases the risk involved... If the question was raised a bit earlier I would advise to invest in btc hardware mining if you have cheap electricity and a place to keep the equipment cool or even try cloudmining but with recent developments and failures I am loosing the will to do anything with bitcoins just hold..  :)
HOLD!  :D ;)

I would venture to say that even under stable prices, more or less, that given the difficulty hikes that progressively take place that mining isn't something that could produce anything worthwhile as a return that would be advantageous over just holding under the normal circumstances unless you start and receive your rig at the start of a bear market. Before you know it, the hashing benefits run to a neutral outcome before you know it. If you paid in bitcoin, your best bet to win getting that currency back is to start mining a few months before the tail run of a bear market and then use the capitulation after-stages as the time to recop/mine more bitcoin to have made it worthwhile. Paying in cash is another story and can vary. Perhaps, my judgement is clouded because I pre-ordered back in the day and I just barely broke even in usd but got screwed in btc. My advice is to just buy and hold if you're not a trader, yet if you have extra coins above your set goal and are looking to invest in a steady usd stream paid in btc every month or whenever - find a steady paying upstart company that has a legit prospectus and go with that w/ just a small portion of your stash.

I like cryptotrader, you can get pretty decent ROI on your investment.

Only with a good bot code. Did you write one for yourself or did you buy one? If the latter, which bot, if the first, what indicators are you looking for.

I test out tradewave though im still on the coding part.  ::)

Consider investing in a real brick and mortar company for once, try Make Consistent Profit with ArchVentures SA, Portugal (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1074400.0)

It might be the one you're looking for.

Is investing in the bankroll of a dice site (like Just-Dice) worth it?
If I left 0.1 BTC in there overnight, what should I expect to have when I wake up the next morning?

I know you said you don't like cloud mining, but you should take a look at hashnest.  They are legit and you get a pretty good ROI.  The nice part is that it isn't a year or two year contract. You own the hash you buy and can sell it back at any time.  Try a bit in there you might be surprised at the results.

Try your vestments at CVFS-CrytpoVest at this stage for a steady div payment. Good things are steadily coming along and you should be part of it. This is the best investment option at this point so go get some. This has paid a div for6 months now and I'd say all should get some awarenesson this spoke at this time.

I believe returns in the biggest ever dice site, just-dice, as it still was running on bitcoins, had annual returns of around 11-12 percent. Other dice sites were worse at that time.

I dont have an overview about the actual returns. Though you should not think that investing for one day will get you a clear view. You need to have it parked for some time since the returns vary very much each day.

Consider every investment a risk. If you give your coins in the hands of others, you have lost them at this moment. If youre lucky you will get them back.

I only had negative experience with dice site investments.Not big losses, but definitely no winnings. It is not made to get the end users rich overnight.
I think for them it is simply a good option to issue "shares" that users buy and bring more capital to their site. Then they can make some profit with some trading or who knows what.

I'm currently looking into trading and maybe investing at cryptostocks. I had some minor success there.

HODL

If there were 10 Bitcoins in existence, and 10 people held 1 each, all of them hodling for eternity... What would be the value of 1 BTC?

I think a major problem is that people are hoarding, hoping that BTC will be 10'000$ by the end of the year and retire early. Fact is, without 10'000 BTC pizzas, we wouldn't be here. And if everybody held on to their precious coins forever there wouldn't be a point for calling it a currency at all. Currently I feel it's more like a collectible. Like stamps  ::)

The adoption is still too low in my opinion for that to be true. Bitcoin is in need for new people to get in, what these new people will do with their coins is another question that is not that important at the moment. A greed to hold therefore is not necessarily bad, because it attracts more people. A lot of them, including myself got interested in Bitcoin just because they saw a potential to hold and sell later at a higher price.

The avg interest people can expect get depends on the bankrolls size in relation to the avg daily betvolume on the site, but if we for example look at a situation with a daily betvolume of 10 times the size of the bankroll with a 1% house edge and a profit disturbution of  80% to investors/20% to site owner then one can expect something like 33.9% yearly profit on the initial investment if one left the whole investment in the bankroll at the site for a full year and 29.2% if one withdraws profits regularly.
Maby it could be a good portfolio choise to have something like 10% of ones capital in a dice site if it would have bets in BTC and perhaps 1-2% if it runs on some other digital currency.

These rates re based on your own experience or what?

The actual win/loss one gets from investing in the bankroll can vary a lot if a big whale comes in and bets huge but if a site only has a lot of smaller bets the return will be closer to the expected value.
The 80/20 distrubution is what justdice had when they operated with betting in bitcoins, the house edge is usually 1% or close to that on most dice type sites i think. The size of the bankroll one should be able to see on a serious site the, the same goes for statistics on daily betvolums so one should be able to do such type of calculations for the sites one may be interested in investing in.

Basically the higher the total bankroll is in relation to the daily volume the less profit/yearly interest(as a smaller percentage of your coins is used for each bet) is to be expected.

Bitcoin is experimental, but you say you have some bitcoins, therefore you are already a high risk speculator.

I will assume then, that you are interested to invest into high speculations investments.

There is an abundance of high risk speculative investment opportunities.

Which one you chose is up to you.

I would need to know more about you, to try and figure out what might be a better investment for you.
There is alot of different questions I might ask you.

Are you investing all by yourself?
Are you a part of a group of investors?
Are you a talented programmer who can make things happen?
If you are talented programmer who can make things happen, then that opens way more doors for you to invest, with much greater chances of success to gain on your investments.
If you are a part of a group of highly talented programmers, then you have an even greater chance of gaining on your investments, if you all work together as a group.

Or, do you just want to invest your btc, sit back and wait and see what happens? This is a very high risk way of investing nowadays in crypto. I think this type of investing is very likely to lose money nowadays.

So, tell me/us more about yourself, and then I might be more able to find what I think you might like, but ultimately the decision is yours about what you invest into.

So what do you bring to the table? What can you add to any investment?