Bitcoin Forum

This is an open request to Maged, Theymos and the rest of the mods..

If you truly believe Pirate to be a scammer, then label him as much.  Show us the evidence just like you do with the other scammers.  Otherwise, you're just being a hypocrite and we shouldn't trust you anymore.

Edit: Thanks to whomever split this off, I had poor targeting.

I knew that something was familiar here, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks!

No. It is almost impossible to get a scammer tag here unless you've actually completed a scam against someone. Pirate hasn't (yet).

You don't need to trust me, but you should trust the tag. Scammer tags have to be approved by at least one trusted member and an administrator.

Having the moderators going around saying "I think this is bad" but not actually doing anything is a bunch of crap.  Stand behind what you say or don't say it.

Moderator = moderating posts

Moderator != Judge/Jury/Executioner!

 ::)

Why would you be saying that?
The only thing I can think of is that after Pirate gets a scammer tag, it could lower the number of deposits, and put the interests rates back up... right? :)

More like I don't like character assassination. 

It is absolutely impossible for moderators to prove that this is a scam, only law enforcement could possibly do that. There is reason to have strong suspicions, but to apply the scammer tag on someone who could even remotely possibly be honest is wrong. Innocent until proven guilty.

There is no proof, only evidence.

I wasn't speaking as a moderator -- I was speaking as someone who doesn't like how big this has grown. I apologize if you were confused. If I was speaking as a moderator, you wouldn't publicly see my opinion on the matter until the case was decided one way or the other.

Then make a suspected tag.  If a moderator feels that strongly about someone that they have to say negative things about them, they should be doing something about it.  Otherwise, they're just trolling like the other trolls.

But you are encouraging it. I mean, in a way..

That's just it, unless you use another account, you don't get to speak as a normal user.  Every one of your posts has your title by it.  It's like Barrack Obama saying something as a person vs as President of the United States while out in public.  He just doesn't have that luxury while he carries the title.

I've requested that we make such a tag in the past. Nothing happened with it, though.

My answer to this will be one name: Trayvon Martin.

If you want to continue arguing about whether or not a mod should comment on something like this, bring it to Meta. Also, if you're going to complain about someone on the staff commenting on such matters, please also complain about Psy. As least his post was reported.

You're right, you should split these off and unclutter pirate's post a bit.  I've done a decent job of trolling it.

I haven't seen any Moderator speaking as a Moderator. So far I've only see normal, personal posts. Are you trying to say Moderators can't have an opinion and speak freely about the things they believe, or don't believe?
That wasn't what I was told when i accepted the job, or else I wouldn't have accepted it.

Done. Rename it whatever you want.

What I'm saying is that you should have a personal account that you use for personal opinions and statements and you have a business account that you use for business opinions and statements.  I am not saying you aren't entitled to a personal opinion.

I don't require moderators to pledge an oath of neutrality in all forum discussions. :) Moderators will not censor themselves. I'll express my opinions freely, and I expect other moderators (and other members) to do the same.

+1, this is the way I would expect any moderator to act.

Why would you trust a forum status? What you need to do is use the Web of Trust and look back on the history of the member you are dealing with... If it looks sketchy don't use'em. If there is no reason not to trust him with the level of money involved then try it out..... No need to create a thread to spread some kind of bias-virus around the forums

Labelling someone without proof based on a "feeling" is not how to operate. If you label him I hope he sues the owner of the forum  for defamation which is dangerously close to what you are suggesting.

Innocent untill proven guilty is how civilised people operate.

imsaguy,

You are one of the loudest, rudest, most obnoxious and immature posters on this forum. I mean in general, irrespective of BTCST.

It's time to hit the button (the "lalala i can't hear you" button).

Bob.

I never had a real opinion on Pirate and company, but this sure is making me wonder why they are so intent on silencing dissenters.

Oh and by the way, go fuck yourself, I'm not gonna censor myself just because I'm a mod.

Just wait until the outcome is clear, then demote the mods that were engaged heavily on the wrong side of a flamewar. An operator who fuels up a flamewar to help a scammer is unacceptable, so there will be a reckoning after the show.

The first thing I'll do after the game is demoting psy, probably using just a single quote. Enjoy your remaining time with the staff tag. I hope, though, that you will resign the position on your own and apologize, because it would suck if even an old moderator account were in on this.

Being a moderator does not mean one can get away with anything because "oh, this had nothing to do with my moderation role". There are enough users already who post with their head in offline mode.

What does the fact of me being a moderator has to do with me defending MY OWN beliefs?
I'm not collecting anyone elses money to invest in Pirate, I only have MY OWN money there.

I invite you to search for any post on my posting history where I talked as a Moderator and did a bad job at it.
Most likey you will not find any because I'm conscious enough to just delete spam posts and whitelist new members. Moderating discussions is not for me and wasn't the reason I accepted to be part of the staff and theymos was made well aware of that fact before promoting me, and I'm sure he can confirm it if you ask nicely.

You're as much of an asshole as Goat is.
Go fuck yourself. <<-- You can quote that.

Now I will quote theymos just for your reading pleasure:

If you're not happy with the way the forum is run you're free to leave, I think. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

The only reason a moderator would deserve to be stripped of their title is if they were editing and deleting others' posts to support their position in a flamewar. In regards to psy, he doesn't even have mod capability in the board where the altercation took place, so this isn't even possible. In other words, please put your head back in online mode before responding.

Don't worry, despite my opinion on the matter, I haven't even opened a scammer investigation. Sure, I'm investigating, but it's not in any official capacity.

I can't think of any good reason why moderators shouldn't express their opinion on EVERY legitimate or illegitimate transfer of Bitcoin. That they choose not to express an opinion on some of them and choose to do so on others reflects their level of trust, and with that, a history of knowledge of past and ongoing "scams" that they have had experience with. If something seems fishy to them, so be it.

It's not just mods that have to wonder if interactions they've had are ultimately questionable, all of us have dealt with this in some manner.

Perfectly fair.  Anyone that doesn't investigate for his/herself in some fashion isn't doing him/herself any favors. 

I'm not asking you to sensor yourself, I'm asking you to separate your personal and professional opinions.  I'm glad to see you take such offense to that.  ::)

Being a mod is a profession?

Unless this forum is their own personal playground, it is.

Honestly, I agree with imsaguy here, but think it's more of a technical problem. I like reddit's moderation system because I can, as a moderator of a subreddit, speak normally, but I can also "distinguish" a post I make in official capacity. That is, I can fuck around with people and say things like "haha u so dum also trollface pun pun pun" and it'll just appear under my username. Or I can be serious, type something like "Please refrain from posting off-topic pun threads as they are against the rules of this subreddit", and then press a button to distinguish my post, which makes my username appear red and all fancy.

I do think there needs to be something like that though. Otherwise it's a weird power situation, like socializing with a police officer who always wears his uniform, and you're not sure if you should act like a friend (teasing, making fun of, not guarding your speech) or as a citizen (respectful, fearful, making sure not to do anything that could be remotely seen as illegal). When Maged or theymos or any other mod comments on a dispute, it's hard to be sure if they're acting as moderators/arbiters or as just regular people. If they're arbiters, it can reasonably be assumed that they've done their due diligence and have a stronger basis for their opinions than other people just spreading FUD. If they're just opining as regular forum members, we risk their opinion being taken as a stronger statement of truth than it is. That should make people feel uncomfortable, regardless of what the topic is.

Thanks for this.  I'll do my best to be more polite.

It's sounds like maybe your point is that it's hard to tell if a moderator is being a moderator or just another long-time member of the forums. I regularly see guys with hundreds to thousands of posts defending what seems to be a pretty obviously shady operation (not necessarily BS&T) and I wonder how long they could have possibly been members and sure enough they are no more than 6 months old and in some cases they only been posting for maybe 3 of them. I often wonder if these high-post count users send more of a wrong message than a moderator just warning about a possible shady op.

Also, something to keep in mind is that "buyer beware" is advice, not law. Anyone willing to remind buyers to beware isn't breaking some unwritten law, and it's only scammers or their victims that would want to prevent such advice from being repeated, quite honestly.

There's also an edge that is less frequently talked about here. The guys that benefit from HYIP scams are typically the ones that only invest once. They have a vested interest in keeping HYIP possible, because that's how they make their money, attempting to scam the scammer. Pesky things like moderators commenting on the validity of an investment, only get in their way.

They weren't commenting as moderators.. that's the point :)

Back in the days of Ultima online we had shared moderator accounts. Like Nicknames that stayed, but the mods behind it changed. That way moderators could do their moderation without giving a "personal" opinion. You never knew who was just moderating and if people brought in their personal opinion they used their nicknames...

I wont comment on the OPs opinion.. i just say that this what we did years back in such a situation...

I think its important that moderators and anyone else that is meant to be trusted is very loud with their opinions, Its easier to spot a rotten apple when the worms are on the outside - and if they really do feel it is a scam they should post the same as everyone else

having said that i would appreciate a way to distinguish what is being said between personal and professional, forum mods (edit: as in modifications, not moderators, lol) being the pain they are and separate accounts being overkill, perhaps just sign 'site related' posts as '-staff' at the bottom (it wouldn't be a problem to forget to sign, as long as important posts are signed and personal opinions aren't) ... but even that could just be a treatment for a non-existent problem

In other news if my scammer tag is not removed within 24 hours I am suing bitcointalk.org Inc. for damaged amounting to $ 100 000 for preventing me selling my GPUs now ASIC are coming.

Harassment too !

Joking ... :D

People have sued over eBay ratings, Any other site rating being defaming is not that much of a stretch

--

edit : in pirates case, if all the ponzi talk causes everyone to withdraw and it turns out it ISN'T a ponzi but the lack of funds/client faith does kill pirates business... I would expect there is a case there

I can think of no legitimately ethical investment that ceases to be profitable based on the number of investors.

was that a reply to me?

I meant in the case that "EVERYONE" withdrew (and got their coins, proving its not a ponzi), leaving pirate with only his own BTC and demands he can no longer fill

It's easy to distinguish it by typing mod comments in a different colour/font or by enclosing them in [moderator hat on]/[moderator hat off] tags.  For the most part, the mods around here do mostly house-keeping stuff and don't sanction people in public.  I think the default assumption should be that they're posting their personal opinions unless otherwise indicated.

I've been part of a couple of communities which restrict mods and admins from posting as normal posters and I believe those communities are poorer for that choice.

I would be all for [moderator hat]text[/moderator hat] tags, as long as a tophat gets added to any text within

I can, assuming you mean amount of invested capital rather than just the number of investors:

A bank. A bank takes in at-call deposits and then loans funds out long term, for stuff like people buying houses. All their liabilities to depositors are covered by assets (loans), but if 50 % of customers suddenly withdrew their money, the bank wouldn't be able to provide it because they can't suddenly make their borrowers sell the houses they bought with the bank's money and pay it back. They would suffer a liquidity crisis, even if the bank is completely sound.

It's the same with pirate. Everyone withdrawing all at once and causing delays in pirate being able to pay out does not automatically mean he's running a Ponzi (although a Ponzi would show the same effect). It could could just be that his assets are not liquid enough.

The exact same holds true for any of the mining bonds and the like.