Bitcoin Forum

This is a response to a thread that is for admins only, so I am replying here.

Entire post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=917235.msg10072397#msg10072397

*edit* And piece of the OP from said thread


so I answered.

I am not faulting you for answering, I am refuting your claim that the feedback system has no centralized forum authority enforcing trust standards. Clearly this is not true.

AFAIK staff are allowed to have opinions... There are no rules (except no spamming I guess) on the Trust system. They can do that if they want, it shouldn't have any effect on it whether they're staff or not.

I am not claiming staff shouldn't have opinions, I am disputing the validity of his statement, and I provided an example of why it is not true. There are in fact rules on the default trust system and and they are often enforced from a centralized forum authority (when it isn't one of their buddys).

And I would refute your statement about my statement not being true, but honestly I don't especially care anymore. Any of the staff telling you there is no conspiracy going on behind the scenes to censor/modify trust isn't going to change your opinion, so why bother. I know your claim isn't valid, and you know my claim isn't valid, pretty sure there is no budging from here. It has been discussed to death, and no progress in either direction has been made.

 

TECSHARE, this is like the third or fourth thread in Meta you've made desperately trying to do what, I don't know... Kill the staff? Remove the admin(s)? Get yourself back on DefaultTrust?

Or is it just that you're sore and want an apology?

The staff are human beings and are part of the community. They are not special in any way except that they've been trusted with the ability to delete posts and tempban. (Forgot which rank in the staff hierarchy can permaban and whether you can edit posts; it's of no consequence to me.) Furthermore, your trust eating is still pretty speckless. All that has happened to you is that you have simply been removed from the default trust list. Is that such a big issue?

Let's say, for debating purposes only, that the trust system is everything you say. Just leave.

That's kind of my point, that none of you really give a shit, until it is your personal problem. Also I love how you guys are all using this "conspiracy" buzzword to try to make it sound like I am claiming James Bond and Money Penny are there on the staff roles conspiring with alien reptoids to silence me. This is completely disingenous and just more slandering tactics.

The reality is there needs to be absolutely no collusion for you to carelessly deal with some one like me and enforce the most stringent standards with zero regard for me as a contributing member to this community while also just looking the other way when one of your pals is becoming extremely destructive to the same community. It is not conspiracy, just perfectly organic nepotism.


Actually it is my second thread, but why bother counting when you can make numbers up. I don't give a shit about the default trust, in fact I would like to see it removed completely because it is a failed system. Yep, they are human beings. Unfortunately they have been demonstrating a pattern of disregard for the same rules they gladly enforce upon others at the drop of a hat. This is destructive to the entire community, not just me personally. The staff feel like they have done nothing wrong, but I disagree, and I am not the only reputable member who thinks so. The staff/mods DO have special power, they have the trust of the community. When they speak people listen, and follow their directives, often blindly just based on their word. If the staff/mods stop honoring their word and stop observing rule of law that they gladly enforce upon others, then they automatically reduce their authority regardless of what I do.

Removing me from the trust is not the issue, it is how and why they did it, and their unwillingness to hold others to the same standards when they are within their clique. Removing me from the default trust wasn't such a big deal, but they did more than that. They also punitively punished me by adding trust exclusions effectively negating ACTUAL TRUST I HAD EARNED, not something that was GRANTED to me like the default trust. I got to be the very first test use of this new addition of trust exclusions (shocking I know). Now because of this, even though I have 3 people on level 2 trust who put me on their trust lists, I am now marked as -2 excluded on the default trust, effectively making it impossible for me to ever recover my trust because they sit on top of that list. Regardless of how many people add me to their trust in the future, that will not change because no one can ever out rank them.

Because of this I will never have sufficient pull within the trust system to balance this punitive punishment for not obeying their dictates to modify my trust rating. Trust exclusions used by higher ranking members are a convenient new way for them to take quiet retribution upon users by destroying their hard earned reputations for not obeying their dictates, in my case for refusing to allow them to intimidate me into changing my trust rating after they had already removed me from the default trust.

I think they figured that once they removed me from the default trust, that the red rating I left for Armis would go away, but I have so many positive ratings from people from trading impeccably here for over 3 years, that even after they removed me from default trust, he was still left in the red. Because of this theymos decided to invent a new way to moderate the trust ratings quietly through the new back door of trust exclusions to make sure I couldn't "get away with it". Meanwhile they repeat to everyone that they don't moderate trust ratings, and they don't do so from a centralized position of authority either. This is a lie.

What is "trust eating" and "speckless"?

So... basically you are saying to me, "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT WELL YOU CAN JUST GIT OUT!"

That's great, except... what about the 3 years I invested in building up my reputation in this community? I don't see any reason I should tolerate this, especially considering that if I leave I have nothing more to lose than if I stay anyway, except for a little effort used speaking up about this abuse, which I am happy to do regardless of their attempts to marginalize and intimidate me. In short, they saw to it that the only reason I didn't speak up against them before was removed, so maybe they shouldn't be so quick to burn honest users trying to operate legitimately on the forum. After all, I am a human too.

You have been an asset to this forum and BTC in general, and this is how you get repaid?

That's all kinds of wrong and messed up.

What is this guy talking about , even with a depth of only 1 and only default trust , he got a 6: -0 / +(4). He is not red. With a depth of 4 this climbs even ten times higher.
Default Trust is not a right given to you by an amendment. With that said , why should I trust you if you make a big fuzz over a thing like this ?

Well please explain how to bring up an issue to the community?
Everyone's always flagged as hot headed or drama queens. But no real way to ask for answers,  without going public.
sending a message to an administrator never gets.you answers

come on takagari, you had like 6 open threads in the first page of meta basically about the same thing for 3-4 days...

Can we sticky this post? Especially the italicized part.

Is Armis even a friend of any of the staff/mods/admin ??? I have never seen any of them in each others' threads.

It is not my fault you didn't bother to read the thread. I never said NEGATIVE TRUST, I said TRUST EXCLUSION (2 times), which Theymos just invented, and it just so happens to negate the 3 people who trust me on the lower default trust tree, effectively negating trust I earned with my hard work as additional punitive punishment ON TOP OF removing me from the default trust list for not obeying his commands to remove my trust rating for Armis. I got to be the very first person to be excluded from the trust tree (yay me). Because they are so high in the trust rankings, I can never have the trust level I had before restored, and it will be permanently capped because no one will ever outrank Theymos and whoever else left the other exclusion for me, in the default trust tree.

As far as making "a big fuzz", complaints against staff are almost always ignored, they do not feel they need to enforce these same rules upon everyone, just for special people. If I wasn't making "a big fuzz" the staff would simply marginalize my statements and they would be lost in all the other crap that fills this forum. They have gone too far, and I refuse to sit by idly while they selectively enforce the rules against me while giving their buddies  pass after pass after pass for much worse abuse than they punished me severely for.



No, Armis is not, but VOD is.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.0;all

Why would they help out Armis by removing you from default trust list if they are not friends with him?

I think it boils down to the fact that there was a valid argument to have you removed - you were using your position for your own financial gain, while all the arguments to remove Vod are invalid

edit: I don't even  recall that many staff members even posting on the armis thread. IIRC it was actually Vod that said he was surprised that people were not more up in arms about you abusing your position and how he was cussed out when he got drunk and gave someone negative trust that he should not have.

3 open max actually.
than I locked them. Opened a 4th, had my posts deleted inside as I went off my own topic and was told by staff to open a new thread if I had a new topic to discuss.

So sorry, I was doing as I was told.
but I locked my old threads.
never had 6 open at one time.

Maybe if we got answers. .. threads wouldn't keep popping up.

I never claimed staff was friends with Armis. The staff however are willing to enforce more stringent rules upon me because I am critical of some of their policies and actions and I refused to obey their dictates under a supposedly unmoderated trust system.

Armis was not pointing out a legitimate complaint, he was there to harass me. What gives him the right to call me selling a giftcard for its face value scamming? Furthermore, if he really was just there to point out something I did wrong why did he stick around to make insults? Why is he not required to post his accusations in the correct forum like meta or scam accusations? Why does the rule against trolling suddenly not apply when I am the one making the report?  I did not try to silence Armis, I simply wanted a single OP to be free from harassment of Armis.

In my case no one ever explained to me that default trust was moderated, so I was left to believe that I was free to leave feedback in any way I liked, and if the community found it abusive they could personally untrust me or neg rate me themselves. If some one had bothered to explain this to me I never would have left the rating. Also, I gave Armis an opportunity to get my negative rating for him removed if he would remove his slander from my marketplace op, but he refused. AT no point did he make any compromise when he was the one to initiate this conflict in the first place. I have never even traded with him, he was just looking to grief, and the staff gave him exactly what he wanted, in effect punishing me twice. Once by being harassed by Armis and no one doing anything about it, then a second time by being removed from the default trust and added to trust exclusions, basically nuking my earned trust.

I explained all of this before int his thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=853522.msg9495269#msg9495269 , but I am sure you haven't read it because clearly you are here to defend VOD and his pattern of harassing and abusing members simply for criticizing his abusive behavior.

Wow is all I can say.

Hands down all I can say is Tecshare has clearly demonstrated the most severe pathology of being butt hurt than I ever encountered.

All of these threads and psychotic whining is for one thing and one thing only.

His ego cannot accept the fact he was removed from the trust and badly wants back in.

Techshare is massive butthurt.

Anyone else see that?


~BCX~



http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/131/288/spongebob-butthurt.gif

I think most of us do.  Personally, I'm tired of proving him wrong over and over, so now I ignore him and his lackies.  Thank you for being a bigger man than me and standing up against his abuse.  :)

You should be Legendary anytime soon!

You haven't proven anything except you are willing to lie to the faces of everyone in the community and damage the reputations of people who give you the authority granted by the default trust list. I don't want on the default trust list, I want to end it, but don't let facts stop you.

In your words, I haven't proven anything.   But let's take into account even the staff are calling you a liar.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=914641.msg10100317#msg10100317

When a liar says I am lying, that means I am telling the truth.   :)

Let's see if he corrects the implication.  If he doesn't, that's the same as calling you a liar.

I'm also calling you a liar.  My basis is simply that you lie.  One of the reasons, I assume, you were removed from defaulttrrust, and the main reason you are butthurt now.

I never lied, and you can't even give one example of one of the many lies you claim I have made, so basically what you are doing now is just more shit slinging to retaliate against me for pointing your your default trust abuse.

You lie all the time - even the forum staff agree.  That's like me saying my avatar doesn't lick his own boob.   ::)

Yet you are still unable to provide an example to support your baseless accusation. Funny how it always works that way with you. Lots of bullshit, zero substance.

Like I posted earlier, I prove it time and time again.  Even the staff took notice.  You keep denying it.  That's fine - you've been proven a liar.

I'm sick of proving it over and over.  Time people started reading old posts.   ;)

Ok, since it is such a well known fact, how about an example?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=917438.msg10100588#msg10100588

Read before you post.   ;)

This isn't an example of a lie you claim I made. This is an example of you claiming that someone said I lied. That is a different thing. Is the hamster that runs your brain not getting fed right? If I am a liar you should have NO PROBLEM posting an example of a lie you claim I have made to back your accusation.

Like I posted earlier, I prove it time and time again.  Even the staff took notice.  You keep denying it.  That's fine - you've been proven a liar.

What about the three years I have invested building up my reputation in this community?  Why should I let some liar come along and post BS about me?

After all, I am a human too.

Poor VOD the human.
What about the three years I have invested building up my reputation in this community?

Why is it that you get to attack me using the default trust system for pointing out your abuse of the default trust system?

Why is it YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF ME LYING?

I have.  Many many times.  You and your lackeys ignore them.  

So why would I post the proof right now when tomorrow night you'll be asking me for the same thing again?

All people have to do is look in at the threads you have started in this section of the forum to see the proof I have made.
But for the lazy people:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.20

It's not just my word against yours.  I also have the staff's word that you are a liar.

You have not tho, you have simply posted what other people have said about me and claim that is the example of the lie.

POST AN EXAMPLE OF A LIE THAT I HAVE PERSONALLY STATED, otherwise you are just full of shit and attempting to harass me for bringing your abusive behavior on this forum to light.

EDIT: Your supposed example has been refuted in that very thread. Furthermore you have had zero repercussions. You are still on the default trust list. People asking you to control yourself an reconsider your trust ratings IS NOT a repercussion. Additionally even if you find what I said not to be true, that doesn't make me a liar. That just means you disagree with me. Try again. I am interested to see which straw you grab for this time.

I'm not attacking you using the default trust system.  Unless you show where, this is just another of your lies.   :-\

You left me a negative trust rating for calling out your trust system absue. Abusing the trust system to stop some one from pointing out your trust system abuse pretty well proves that you in fact do abuse the trust system. Just because you modified it after public pressure was placed upon you doesn't mean it never happened. Additional you also used it to try to intimidate iCEBREAKER for doing the same by giving him a negative for pointing out your pattern of abuse.

This is what I'm arguing against.   ::)

Disagreeing with some one doesn't make them a liar. I am still waiting for you to post an actual example of a lie I made. If I am such a huge liar like you claim I am it should not be hard.

It will be very hard if you keep dismissing all the proof I have with your lies.  Luckily, everyone else is able to read this and make up their own mind.   :)

any power, even as small as being a staff member on btctalk corrupts, it's just as simple as that, only the strong hearted are fair...

Keep dismissing WHAT?! So far you have posted what other people have said and claimed it was evidence of a statement I personally made. After that you posted an opinion I hold that you disagree with. You haven't even posted a single example of something I stated that is a lie to dismiss! Just because you willfully post disingenuous things and I dismiss them, doesn't make your claims at all valid. The way you are talking I must be a huge liar! If this was true why not post 4 or 5 examples of lies I made? Why not 10? It should not be hard if what you claim is true, and is not simply just empty retaliatory accusations for pointing out your abusive behavior.

We played and you lost TECSHARE.  :(

Everyone other than you is easily able to see the proof you are a liar and where the staff of this forum called you a liar as well.

Those that can't can PM me, and I will post the links.

But for the lazy people:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.20

Not going to keep proving you a liar over and over when you (and just you) ignore the proof.   ::)

So point out how I'm a pathological liar?

You sure use that word a lot.
and if honestly ALl you have on TECSHARE to call him a liar is that he accused you of abusing the systen and you disagree. That you stretching. You have differing thoughts.
and tec is dark from the only guy to point out your abuse.

So please why not document all of his many lies and pleas point out what makes me a pathological liar.

Otherwise he is correct.  Your abusing the system for personal revenge.

No one shall question the Vod,  or thousands shall suffer the wrath of dummies he'd trading ability.

This is not proof of anything except that you disagree with my opinions. Try again. If I am such a massive liar like you claim, why is it you keep recycling the same baseless bullshit that was easily refuted by myself and several other users as if it were proof of a lie?

IF I AM A LIAR - POST PROOF - YOU CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED! Your leaving of negative trust for me was nothing but A FAILED ATTEMPT AT INTIMIDATION.

Everyone knows that VOD does this and that is why he does this so openly, as a warning to anyone who dare speak up about him. Most people will not call him on his abusive behavior because they do not want to risk their reputation to call out VOD, he knows this and makes sure people know he is willing to openly abuse the default trust system to silence people who justly criticize his behavior. As a result the only people who ever call him out are a string of lower ranking new users that are nearly indistinguishable from scammers, and he knows this, and he knows he can operate this way perpetually unless reputable members call him out on his abuse (at risk to themselves).

You are a liar - I've posted the proof many times, and many people have backed me up on it. 

Yelling won't make your lies true you know.   :-\

No, no you haven't. You posted an opinion of mine you disagreed with, not a lie. The opinions of others are not proof of me lying.
Quoting my actual words which are lie, is proof of me lying, and you have not done that even once - because it never happened and you are attempting to intimidate me into silence about your abusive behavior by abusing the default trust system.

Repeating your lies about me lying wont make your lies any less of a lie either.

For the record TECSHARE - I enjoy our little chats.  I'm a scambuster - I call out liars.  Feel free to be as vocal as you want, just don't complain when people call you on your bullshit.   :)

I have asked you repeatedly to call my "bullshit", but you CANT DO IT, because I NEVER LIED about you. If it were true you should be able to provide examples that don't consist of other people's words, or my opinions.

He has a point,

You've made a habbit of making a statement without backing it.
Sadly I think Tec is running in circles chasing his tail. Whether in purpose or due to ignorance. The Staff allow VOD to run free.

lol.  I've proven you're a liar time and time again.  No biggie - you're the only one that can't see it.   ;)

NOPE. You can't post one actual legitimate example of me lying, because it never happened.

P.S. I am not running in circles, I am using VODs OCD to keep bumping this thread.

You're the only one that can't see it.   ;)

Keep lying to everyone's faces, maybe someone will believe you. Enjoy your hiatus, I know I will.

Man... Give up.

Either VOD is sucking off the admins.
Or they do not care.
Either way it's proven that bitching does nothing.

Go, create a new account and start fresh. Ignore VOD.

It's a flawed system, but so is the US government. and look at the people willing to accept it.

Life moves on.
If this is your biggest concern in life. I think a few priorities need to change....

LOL

Could you make any less sense? I should make a new account after building the reputation on this one for 3 years? There is nothing wrong with my account. I probably annoyed some people, but people don't care if I was a little annoying as long as they know I will never steal from them. VOD didn't do anything permanent to my reputation. Additionally, VOD has harassed A LOT OF PEOPLE around here, and I know I am not the only one who wants to speak up about it, but most simply choose not to in order to protect their trust rating. Furthermore, I don't care if he is giving all the staff handies in a back room, I will continue to call him out on his abuses (whenever he decides to return). Just because you think this is pointless doesn't make it pointless, you just have nearly nothing invested in this community and don't understand any of the dynamics at play here. So please, I can do without your seasoned advice. Thanks anyway.

IF TECSHARE can't be on the default trust list, no one can. lol  :D

This is essentially what TECSHARE is trying to do to anyone who supports the current implementation of DefaultTrust. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2594012/Architect-stabbed-wife-warning-I-no-one-can.html)