Bitcoin Forum

Last year when MtGox apparently got "hacked" we saw bitcoin coming down to $100(for a few minutes) from $1200.
Since then bitcoin has been constantly going down 👇.
If gox thing didn't happen do you think that bitcoin still would have been at around $1000?
So is gox to be blamed for this downfall?

Bitcoin reached 1200 due to willybot. That was an inflated price. Read more about it here => http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

I agree that at that time gox was manipulating the prices a lot, but still they were able to make bitcoin reach 1200$ and this price automatically got reflected on other exchanges too.
But it wasn't "just" the willy bot that caused this, at that time halvening also happened and that reduced the dumping in the exchanges.

Still if gox was still there I believe that the price would not have gone down to such disastrous figures.
Just wanted to know people's view.

Yes you can say that gox effect much for the bitcoins prices to fall down but that not only cause of price increase or decrease. The number of demand from other peoples are the major cause I think

What kind of demand are you talking about? The buying demand of the people? If that would have been there then the prices would have increased instead of falling down.

blame is not the right word for it i think.  anything traded in the open market are subject to certain economic laws and market manipulation.  so naturally BTC will trend up, down, go sideways, go smooth, go choppy, etc, etc...

But running away with 100thousands of bitcoin wasn't a part of the "economic laws" and market manipulation,that's what I was talking about. It made the bitcoin to crash suddenly and there wasn't enough room for it so stand up.

if that's the case then yes.  just like the financial crisis of 2005, there were certain players to be blamed.

I would say, yes they are to be blamed. There was a manipulation on the price and basically I don't know how they managed to get it up so fast until it reached 1200. And after that it's natural that the price adjusted itself lower to reflect the actual market supply and demand factor.

Gox should be thanked for manipulating the prices up to $1200. If it wasn't for them it still would have been floating between $50 and $200.
Its coming down to its correct level, but the rally created a lot of free publicity and it is several times more well known now.

but think about where BTC was 2 years ago.  still looking good despite all the bad shit happening imo.

At this stage i would say mtgox has little impact, any newbies to bitcoin stupid enough to not get involved due to mtgox aren't that useful to bitcoin at the current stage we are at.  They do bring some money, so we have lost some dumb money.

So you mean 250-300$ is the correct level? I guess no, there are hundreds of newcomers joining the bitcoin world everyday and that is certainly increasing the demand of the coin. If dumpers(mining equipment manufacturers who mine a lot themselves) start to hold bitcoins as bit then I guess the price would increase drastically and then it would be correct bitcoin's price.

But also think how many people have joined since then? Also take into notice that how many services have started using bitcoin! We have come a long way. This wasn't supposed to happen. Its a black swan.

that would be a nice scenario yes.  :)

why you want BTC to go up so badly if you don't mind me asking?  you bought high?

Well no, I didn't buy it when the price was high. I got few when the price was around 311$.
Why would someone would not want their investments to give out nice returns?
Although I am going to wait till another halvening and I expect the price to go to at least 1500$. If bitcoin hits that price, ill sell.

Many people blame gox for their manipulation when Bitcoin reached over $1000.

But people must look in the mirror and admit that they bought in at a horrible moment.

Doing a bit research and reviewing the current market would have prevented people from buying Bitcoin over $1000.

1200$ was only of gox and localbitcoins and 100$ was only on gox but there was a lot of Bitcoin skepticism because of gox and there has a lot of skepticism now because of bitstamp. If bitstamp only lost 19 000 BTC and can prove they are solvent, the price should recover.

Did you read I said price increase or decrease?

We could have more new buyers but more sellers too ;)

I think it is to be blamed as the fake trades artificially inflated the price, but bitcoin is bigger than one exchange and I believe it will bounce back eventually. We need to keep the faith and keep spreading adoption in the meantime, though.

FIAT price has nothing to do with the success of Bitcoin. Do u count Apple's success with its share price ?

I think not,because the unstable price and it can change anytime.

gox is partially to blame, absolutely. But what was the final nail in the coffin was it's own inflation.

Bitcoin has hit peak prices and crashed down again too often to blame Gox. It would have happened anyway.

Logicaly buying demand gone down after alot of investors got scared that bitcoin could have "security bugs" but it's basicaly dox to blame.
Willy is FUD.

I sometimes wonder that why don't gambling websites(without any investments) get hacked? Why is it always when there a lot of people's money involved, you get goxed?

Gox was the big daddy! It was the biggest exchange and yes so I believe that one exchange could have brought fucking drastic changes.

You could also call it the reason why a lot of people gave up on bitcoin. A lot of people lost a lot of money because of it.

Gox was leading. It held the largest amount of bitcoins at that time. Btc-e and gox were the major players. I saw a lot of people buying on btc-e and selling on gox.

As the biggest theft in bitcoin history (750 000 - 850 000 BTC lost) it is probably the only reason why bitcoin price is going down. Why? Whoever stole those coins didn't invested anything, he didn't work to get those coins, he is not emotionally attached to those coins, it is profitable for him to dump them at whatever price it is, he is probably capable of mixin and hiding BTC trails, he is the whalebeardumper, he sells those coins completely legally on the big number of exchanges and he is the reason why our economy is having some rough time.

How do you know it wasn't the CEO?  ::)

Werent some coins returned back to the people?

how does it matter that who was it? A thief is a thief.

So I've seen the number that 250,000 BTC sold off. While that's probably people misinterpreting the trading volume as pure selloff volume, wouldn't that be SOME SHIT if we found it was the remaining GOX coins being liquidated to repay creditors?  :D  ;D

GOXED FROM THE GRAVE!

I still feel like there's potentially one more Goxing out there somewhere, somehow.

It is possible that the heackers are not very interested in BTC, they may keep some BTC but they prefer to cash out to have some fiat.

You should stop believing in the "hackers" theory. It was the company itself and mark who ran away with the coins. Everything that happened after it(bankruptcy claims and shit) were all fake just to calm down people.

Agree that gox was behind pushing the coin down to such lows. But now we are seeing a new co consistent low. What caused this?

scammers and hackers may have caused it. they are getting big chunks of coin doing bad things

would you care to specify that what kind of hackers and spammers are you talking about?
what was the latest scam in recent times that could have caused this low?

i guess btc-e will be the next gox, its probably just a matter of time IMO

I agree to this. BTC-e is being run by russians. they are kind of completely anonymous.
but i think at this point of time there is no use runnning away with large funds because it will create bitcoin to fall down more and more. and if btc-e betrays people then we will need the bitcoin foundation to run an exchange(hope those guys are trusted).

I would disagree. btc-e has never gotten hacked. On the other hand gox was hacked on a regular basis and it's overall security setup was a joke

replace hacked with "steal everybodys  money" if that makes you feel better
i still think they will be the next big one to go down ,have they ever had any audit ?
does anyone know its exact address etc
who even owns it ? a guy called "alex" from russia or bulgaria ??

that sure makes me feel a lot better ...............

What makes you think that something that hasn't happened before won't happen in the future? Your point is totally invalid. You are just ignoring the impact of the highly improbable.

The solution resides in professional auditing of the exchanges and more experience in protecting their business and their client's funds.

they should be forced to purchase insurance BEFORE  taking hundreds of millions of usd /btc in customer deposits and then being "hacked"
eventually it will be mandatory but for now,use them at your own risk
anyone can operate an exchange as it stands ,even people with a history of scamming (mintpal etc )

Who will provide these guys with an insurance? You? No. Me? No.
I don't think that anyone would agree to provide them insurance because of other exchange's history and government's tough stand on bitcoin.

How could an insurer know how much to agree to insure them for if the amount of money on any exchange is constantly varying? During bubbles and crashes all the exchanges hold far more than at quiet times. They always seem to get hacked during peak trading times.

The very most important thing about bitcoin everybody should be informed of , especially people unfamiliar with it and the history of it , is that mtgox , at a time in which it was the world's most high volume exchange used a *billion* fake non-existent dollars injected into their own fraudulent exchange and spent 2 months non-stop "buying" aka stealing coins en-mass to the tune of 650,000 btc which simultaneously had the effect of slamming the price upwards from a stableish 100 to 1200 usd in value , and bitcoin has been in a death spiral ever since ...

if coinbase has managed to get insured theres no excuse for the rest of them not doing it
when they are in a position to steal huge amounts ..........

I guess coinbase is way more established and trusted than other sites and maybe that's why they got insured. Or it can be true the other way round, they got trusted because they got insured.
But all of them wont worry to buy insurances.

eventually the ones that dont will have zero volume ...........its just a matter of time
no serious investor is going to send anything more than loose change to an uninsured exchange
in eastern europe or asia and just "hope for the best "
(by serious im talking about hedge funds and people will real capital ,not teenagers with a couple of hundred usd )

If these Bitcoin holders really wanted to hold Bitcoins, that would be no reason to start selling. And even if it was, they would have already bought back.

650k of gox coins are missing. Also there was the bitcoin auction, bitstamp hack, etc...

there are 1000's of coins around in the hands of unknown people that may or may not being in a slow process of dump right now

There are trillions of dollars around in the hands of unknown people that may or may not being [sic] in a slow process of dump right now

https://i.imgur.com/8YKF9xhl.jpg

How many gox coins does gox have left?

http://youtu.be/K2ku1A5Ox8U

Gox is always to be blamed. 30 years from now in BTCv8.4, SHA2048 will be broken by a quantum computer and will cause a crash... it WILL be MtGox's and Mark's fault.

Ok but in all seriousness, MtGox IMO threw fuel on the crash fire, but was not the cause of it.

P.S. If the above situation unfolds in 30 years it actually wouldn't suprise me if Mark was somehow involved...

the main hole in your logic is these people can only dump once and there are many buyers to snap up coins in a low slump
thats why the price has not fell to zero and if it slumps it will rise again
dump as much as you like ,someone will snap them up ,bitcoin will survive and thrive

i believe karpeles "lost" all 850,000 btc
then a few were reportedly recovered during the following audit in a wallet someone "forgot about"
but i dont know if these are going to be repaid to the losers or maybe karpo will get to keep them ....
not sure if japanese law even recognises btc as money yet  so chances are ,nothing will happen to him ..

Gox is just a blip on the radar. Can't go from $0-$1200 (or $5000 or $50,000) in a straight line, ya know. :P

It will go to 5000$ then back to 800$ then up again...

We can blame gox for the initial crash but we can't keep blaming them forever. We need to move away from trying to place blame all the time as maybe this is just what happens to bitcoin. There hasn't really been any logic as to why the price has continued to fall ever since and there's no gox to blame for that.