Bitcoin Forum

Now that the return of Bitstamp has proven not to boost the market in any way, i think its safe to say that even big players now realize it's done and only going down from here.

I think the return if Bitstamp was the only thing that could have boosted the value a little.
Why do people keep talking about 'but the fundamentals dare there', no they are not, that's why we have 200 altcoins that are almost every one of them better than bitcoin in at least one aspect.

Bitcoin has a fail mining approach, PoW.
Bitcoin mining is centralized.
Bitcoin has failed distribution.
Bitcoin has slow confirmations.
Bitcoin development has practically stopped.
Bitcoin blockchain is bulky, its 30gb how much if it would be adopted, impossible to sustain.
Most bitcoin transactions are of criminal nature.

Please tell me why you invest still?

Colored coins? Not going to happen.
Side Chains? Not going to happen.
EFT? Not going to happen.

Enlighten me oh holy permabulls.

It's dead, it's done.


Bitcoiners, do you have any valid arguments that justify your efforts to get innocent people into this free falling clumsy mess of a pump&dump pyramid scheme?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd0fBXwDBmo

It is weekend and start of year.

Wait some time for some moves.

When it takes less than 30,000 coins to knock us down to 0...

This is not an economy, it's an experiment

The fundamentals are still intact.™

Bitcoin is virtual boy betamax laser disc the Internet... and... bitcoin is technology that is backed by maths and so therefore it cannot possibly fail.

1)  Stop looking at the market price, dumb idiots

2)  Bitcoins destiny won't be related to its market behavior until consumer adoption begins to affect it.

3)  Right now the entire market "world" is a bunch of day traders, manipulators, speculators, and whales.  

4)  The Bitcoin Market has nothing to with whats going on -------> out there in the field.  In the ecosystem.

5)  The ecosystem is building its infrastructure.  Then will come consumer / enterprise adoption.  

6)  Then you will see a Bitcoin market price that is affected by its actual utility and use.

Not a day before.

Until then, the Bitcoin price has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  Its potential for success.  Nor its potential for failure.

Period.

-B-

On top of that regarding ETFs, we now know that Second Market Investment Fund investors can't liquidate their holdings.

Basically they are stuck bagholding and watching the price tank while Barry Silbert posts shit like this (he refers to BTC breaking $300 and free falling from there):
https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/551533923663355904




This is the world of bitcoin gentlemen.


BTC will either die in a crash of gigantic proportions, or it will slowly be forgotten and gradually waste your life.


In any case, the game's over.

Why do some users make the same threads every other day?
Yea you think bitcoin is not here to stay etc... I figured. See you in couple days in your newest thread?

If by "adoption" you mean merchants accepting USD payments from a BITCOIN DUMP though BitPay, or people using BTC as a store of value and losing 70% of its purchasing power in a year, then sure, "adoption".

He's a NXThead ::)

Point, set, match! Bitcoin ain't going nowhere. Too many people are focused on the short term price and let the trolls scare them to death. Gotta have a strong stomach lining if ya want to reap the rewards down the line.

has speculation always had many of these types of threads (2011-2012)? or did they not become common until 2013

Just wait for New Money Monday! :P

It's just a down trend. Strong 4-5 year bull market. Where we are is not unreasonable. Honestly, I could see us at sub-$50 a year or two from now, and would not be surprised with a long term bullish resolution (new ATHs) in time. Mean reversion is a bitch. ;)

i buy bitcoin to trade alts, not for holding it anymore though.
I hope we can get soon another basecurrency because this one sucks.

Wow look at that someone who has been trolling bitcointalk for like 3 years, has 800+ activity and doesn't even believe in bitcoin anymore.

Why are you here again? Go troll elsewhere

No one has patience anymore it seems, not everything has to happen at once.

The OP could have said everything in the latest tulips thread. It would have saved opening a new thread to say the same things.

all aboard the PPC train!   choo choo!

I agree with that.  I don't see how one can declare a 50-year-like experiment as done and over after not even a decade.

I don't think the current price has anything to with its success. That doesn't mean I stay long in a down trend. ;)

That's a first, and necessary step: retailer adoption.  Of course they have to convert immediately to fiat, as their costs are billed in fiat.  This implies fast coin turnover, high velocity, and low bitcoin value.

Once this is generalized, and it becomes second nature to be able to buy stuff in bitcoin from retailers (implying low bitcoin price for this fundamental), then suppliers might be interested in being paid in bitcoin.  It may become interesting to receive part of one's salary in bitcoin (as most retailers accept it).
And *that* implies suddenly that not all retailer bills are in fiat.  That implies that retailers will not convert systematically all in fiat, because they can spend the coins themselves (in salaries, in bills of their suppliers....).

That will:
1) boost the amount of stuff bought with bitcoin
2) make holding times much longer

and hence imply much higher prices (longer holding times, and larger volumes of traded value).

At that point, if ever, bitcoin will have become a currency.  Price will then be determined by the monetary formula.

Bitcoin can also have other fundamentals, such as "store of value" a la gold, but I don't believe in that until people get much more confidence in it.

This is a multi-decade program.

maybe, it's ETF...and yes, it's going to happen!

What a complete load of dismissive cobblers.

Have a look back at the history of the bitcoin market. It's littered with posts like this all the way back to 2010. We got our rise in December 2013 and it's spent a year consolidating. So what ?

It took 10 years before buying an airline ticket with a web browser even began to become commonplace. It was probably another 5 years after that that it became the norm.

We're talking about money and the financial system here. Probably the most conservative and inertia oriented sector in all of humanity. The fact that people will pay any money at all for a string of characters that you can't spend anywhere except a tiny number of select establishments is a massive hole in the dam. The cat is out of the bag and it's not going back in now.

There is still an opportunity to sell internet funny money close to $300, this shouldn't be taken for granted. One or two years from now, it will look like a bargain.

No, there was a Newbie section where newbs had first to educate themselves and earn some activity points to be able to go to Speculation trollbox section.

zero is not possible man, you know how much buyers will pop up if we even go below 100? let alone something crazy like 1-2, i know my self i would buy a tons

This is what I've been saying for a long, long time, and why I was saying that sub-100 are cheap coins.

Still waiting for those convincing arguments guys...

Ergo, everyone who buys BTC with the expectation that the price will rise is simply retarded.

Everyone who thinks that the price of bitcoin can rise without fundamentals such as merchant adoption, is retarded.

If generalized adoption occurs, and that will take decades, the price of bitcoin can be very very high.  But many thought that it was a matter of months or at most a year or so, inspired by the successive manipulations which pushed the price very high without any support.  As long as that increase was a self-fulfilling prophecy, things pumped up, but the last Gox manipulation over $1000 was too high to be sustained with the 10% inflation.

The long decay over more than a year has finally killed all hopes for "the $10 000 rally next month".  But that hope was the pump that made money flow in.

I think the speculative phase (fast to the moon) is now over, and that bitcoin will go to its fundamentals, based upon merchant adoption.

Nothing stops that adoption from pushing the price really very high.  The maximum being about $3 million, if all trade in the world is done in bitcoin.  That's however a multi-decade track.

Totally agree.

Some here would have you believe that we're "trolls" or Randle McMurphys.

is that the smell of despair?

Sure thing. Feel free to jump in:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920101.0

not sure if youre aware,but chinese are manipulating the markets mostly.wait for chinese new year.

It is easy to attack bitcoin whilst the price has slumped for a year. This forum is completely packed full of posters, mostly like you, screaming doomers predicting the end of bitcoin, pleading with bitcoin holders to sell sell sell. It seems strange that so many people would devote so much time to a failing project. Yet every day you are here, without fail, day after day :)

The exchange price is in the doldrums. But this has all happened before several times. Cyclical markets are a normal phenomenon. Most of you 'traders' will go broke in the next year or two. You all predicted the last bull runs, right? Oh wait.

The funny thing about the end of a bear market is that at that point it seems that noone is interested in buying. That is also the best time to buy. Every time the market 'drops' due to buying and selling of a tiny number of coins on exchanges there is someone buying the sold coins. Some will recycle in this process but not all, and the top 500 addresses continue to accumulate, whilst bitcoin-days-destroyed is flat. The price could drop another 50 or 100 dollars further. It could crash even lower. I will just buy more. And I can buy lots more. In a way I hope it does drop a bit more so I can go over 200 coins this year for pretty trivial amounts of money in the grand scheme of things.

I believe in bitcoin as a idea and hope it succeeds. It is a revolutionary technology that has the potential to change the world and disrupt the global banking system.

Troll on :)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

just look at all this fear on this forum. This is just a symptom of the future bull run. Remember the old verbiage. move against the crowd when playing markets.

So we "want cheap coins"? is that your explanation?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920101.0

Bubbles in the past like the south sea bubble, the dotcom bubble, the tulip bubble were just cycles, yes. Cycles that continued going up long term forevah and evah after their "bear markets"...
Nope.

Hint: the tulip bubble had a mini-bubble too before the big pump, had a bear market and recovered. Still after the big pump, THE bubble bursted. Like BTC, doesn't matter if it recovered in previous pump&dumps bubble cycles.

It's a failed experiment that is plummeting.
Good luck changing the world and disrupting the global banking system with a currency that cannot handle large-scale economies.


If instead of saying "it's a revolutionary technology" you could give concrete arguments against what OP said instead of calling it "well worn crap" we could go somewhere.


You are clearly very smart.
Check the link I posted, scientist.

"Trolls" are an easy target for the the bulltards to direct their anger. You see, they can't present any articulate argument as to why people would ever want to buy bitcoins -- aside from gambling and speculating -- so they just pin the fault of this failed experiment on the trolls and otherwise continue to bury their heads in the sand.

The communists tried the same tricks in the Soviet times. When it becomes clear that things aren't working, pin all the blame on the subversive actions of counter revolutionaries and send them to the gulags! Fortunately the bulltards don't have any political power and will forever be losers!

Watch litecoin... this is an exact microcosm of what is happening to bitcoin! Watch as it flatlines and falls, more and more, on its way back to complete obscurity.

People should start getting paid in bitcoin, use it as a store of value you say and merchants should keep their coins. But why would they do that in the first place?
Price is plummeting. Whoever is getting paid in bitcoin or using it as a store of value is losing A LOT of money.

Price is plummeting because there is no demand (or at least no demand considering the selling pressure of miners, bagholders, early adopters, traders) and a general lack of confidence. Selling pressure from merchants keeping their coins instead of getting USD with BitPay is just a tiny part of the equation, they will still lose money and risk with the volatility if they keep them, basically being martyrs for something that might not even change. Price can still continue to fall.
Again, why would they use BTC as a store of value or be paid in BTC in the first place?

We are at the old bitcoin paradox: In order for bitcoin to be useful and not screw people over its value needs to rise. But for its value to rise it needs to be useful.

#Problem

Well the predictions are still on track 3-5% decline daily.

What preddictions?

And price plummets as we speak.


But sure: manipulation, natural bear market, just a cycle, despair phase. bull market incoming.


Buy, hold and get REKT and lose everything profit, go for it.

Wow, A newbie account spreading FUD, supported by other newbies, none of which could possibly be shills...

Never seen that before...

You're free to present a well reasoned counter argument to any of the points raised in this thread...

*chirp* *chirp*

What well reasoned argument ?

That Bitcoin is a communist plot by "bulltards" ?

I think it's best not to challenge your psychosis, mainly because I have absolutely no regard for your opinion.

I'll bite:

Bitcoin has a fail mining approach, PoW.

--> Not true. Thanks to PoW Bitcoin also has an incredibly invested ecosystem which keeps it more faithful than most of those alt-coins with supposidly improved systems. Not to mention that PoW actually does work, and will be even more important in the future.

Bitcoin mining is centralized.

--> It was always expected to become centralized to some degree. Besides- don't you want professionals confirming transactions? The hobbyiest was necessary for bootstraping the network, not forever.  

Bitcoin has failed distribution.

--> bogus

Bitcoin has slow confirmations.

--> this has been discussed, not a problem.

Bitcoin development has practically stopped.

--> also not true. Its just very slow considering how much money depends on it. Gavin has posted recently about the new block sizes coming and have you not seen the 10 candidate release?

Bitcoin blockchain is bulky, its 30gb how much if it would be adopted, impossible to sustain.

--> So is your mother.

HAHAHAHA. Sorry I had too. You don't need to run a full node- you can always prune if it's a problem.

Most bitcoin transactions are of criminal nature.

--> bogus.

Please tell me why you invest still?

Colored coins? Not going to happen.

--> They are already happening.

Side Chains? Not going to happen.

--> They are already happening.

EFT? Not going to happen.

--> Well that will be easy to prove. Lets see- 2015 will be just as dramatic as always in bitcoinland.

.@LittleDigger:  Which scamcoin is your avatar?

http://www.ericsson.com/industry-transformation/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/11/ict-and-the-future-of-financial-services.pdf


not sure if you guys care to read 44 pages. just one example.

those who are not convinced, just don't come here anymore. as long as the trolls have their Party in here, i know bitcoin will succeed. if doomtrolls lose interest i get concerned.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/500px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png

On Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement, I'd say you're somewhere around the pink/orange zone. Do continue.

NotLambChop is definitely in the orange.. Probably lacks the intelligence for sophism :P

So...  Which scamcoin is that again?
And why do you Bitcoiners always reach for five-dollar words when ur butthurt?

Do you believe XRP is a "scamcoin"?

What does Ripple have to do with any of this?

Sigh, learn to use google, or least read..

I notice your pretty new, but you already have a reputation as a scammer..

I think you are "butthurt", and projecting the qualities you possess onto others..

Now I'm going to talk with adults, but please continue your attention seeking..

Ripple has as much to do with this as my avatar...

Because those who have decided to leave BTC are now in XRP.

The only reason the BTC market cap is still respectable is because LTCers first instinct was to flee to the "safety" of BTC.

What if all these beartards were actually paid by or part of a group or groups that just want to crash btc so they can buy really cheap coins before it pumps again?
The reason I ask this is why would someone devote so much time and keystrokes to something they honestly believe is failing? sorry if I don't buy any reason related to trying to save anyone any money by buying into a falling asset. I find it impossible to believe they give a shit.

HAHAHAHA thx 4 teh tip :D

http://s12.postimg.org/qkfswqrh9/Capture.jpg

That's right. It's a conspiracy.

To be honest, I am very happy to have had access to this forum over the last year. If there's a market movement, I come here almost straight away to see what the cause is. All I'm doing is looking out for my fellow bitcoiners. I will buy into BTC again when I see an opportunity, but that's the only reason I'll buy in. The real action is increasingly elsewhere.

Yeap, I'm waiting for a bottom so I can stash away a few more but I don't think the decline has quite finished yet. There was 334 million invested by venture capital in the "bitcoin ecosystem" in 2014, and it'll take a little while for those startups to become productive. I'm not expecting a quick return, but when all is said and done if in five years my bitcoins are worth nothing, I've already made a profit. I've been on the sidelines for a few months now, but I'm guessing that shill accounts still spread propaganda to try and change market sentiment in the forums and various chats. The thing that concerns me most about the success of bitcoin is regulation, so I don't take it as a given that it will be a success, but it's certainly much closer than it was in 2011.

Why all the manipulation talk? This is just a market. An illiquid one, sure, but one entity/group can only pump/suppress price for so long.

lol good one, do you have any statistics which prove this statement ?

Of course not. Presenting the facts are nearly impossible unless they are involved in ALL of the criminal transactions that use BTC...

 ::)

OMG, not another one of these threads.... ::)

I love the argument that backing development is just slow and bog changes are upon us.
However true that may be, the market is already fckd up as it is, a hard fork will be the killing blow for bitcoin, it will likely cause the biggest panic sale we have ever seen in this market.

Ripple is SHIT :)

QE has stopped, no new money injection, everything's price will go down. But we will see other area be impacted first, I think it will start with raw material and energy sector and spread into other manufacturing industry, finally end products like house/car etc...

Soon FED will have to restart the QE to prevent the next gigantic crash of everything and this time all the money will first go into bitcoin, let's wait and see  ;)

Sure, there is blood in the streets and the first thing people think about is putting what they have in a free falling joke currency.

Of course.


Because if you still didn't get it, the Cyprus bail-outs (for example) were just hype excuse for a bitcoin pump&dump. Pretty much nobody from Cyprus actually started putting money in fucking bitcoin.

I think the biggest threat at the moment isn't price, but the potential impending fork (if Gavin has his way). There's a good chance a decent portion of miners will not upgrade, causing major issues.

While I agree on the POW and lack of scalability, I do think that two projects are working on some great solutions that can very easily be integrated into the Bitcoin source code if the miners will let them. They are DPOS from Bitshares, and the scalability solutions using patricia trees that is being used with Ethereum. These two projects are game changers when it comes to cryptocurrency and if Gavin doesn't implement anything they put in when it is shown that these methods work, I think Bitcoin will go the way of Napster and die (I don't understand why everything has to go through bitcoin...if the infrastructure works for bitcoin, chances are it'll work for other cryptocurrencies).

Reputation based decentralized systems aren't exactly grand slam upgrades, it's removing some attack vectors and creating others....

With PoW, you have to worry about pools colluding.  With DPOS, you have to worry about if half the delegates are really only 1 guy with little ability to find out since reputation can be gamed without much difficulty.  It's a pseudo-expendable resource, not a real one.  DPOS scales better, but it's more dangerous all around.  It's also not inclusive to the population in general.  Anyone can become a Bitcoin miner without an invitation, which is why it's succesful.  DPOS is a closed system.

^ that, I'm still HODLing a large stock of x25 adapters and 14.4kbps modems. FUDers can fud all they want about DSL and optic fiber replacing dialup: they are just pissed because they missed the dialup train.

Microsoft is shit.
Coca Cola is shit.
Javascript is shit.
The US dollar is shit.
Pop music is shit.

The world isn't fair, sorry.

Noob, it's not about the Cyprus ppl but the fact ppl around the world dont trust this fiat scam + corrupt goverments.

Cypriots only trust Bitcoin scam 8)

http://assets.philenews.com/data/2013/12/13/neo-kai-bee-oi-megaloi-chorigoi-tou-investors-show-2014.jpg
http://s2.postimg.org/l2kihx3a1/hownow.jpg
Images courtesy of NeoBee, Bitcoin's premiere bank.

I don't invest, I convert.

bitcoin is a shitcoin with mental disorder and dillusions of grandeur.

The hard-fork issue shows:

-nobody cares about  decentralisation
-nobody cares about the wider userbase
-nobody cares about consensus
-bitcoin is malicious and fearful towards altcoins  
-the bitcoin community is greedy as hell

Time to burry it. I have started to boycott it because it has failed already with the high inflation and i perceive it as cancerous to the wider altcoin industry. Lunatics thinking it would be worth more than the current cap are just that, lunatics.
It is overhyped and overvalued and has fully lost its way. It's in no way what it should have been.
The fork-issue and long bearmarket has shown us the real face of that community.
I convert my btc to alts and fiat. Fork you!

Bitcoin needs to end. Crypto can not evolve or even survive with bitcoin in place. It needs to go.

People need to demand the end of bitcoin and start to boycott it. It's time.

I agree.
Bitcoin has become pretty much the opposite from what it stood for initially.
I can only hope people will realize they are getting scammed and invest in the NXT best coin.

we should launch a campaign asking for everyone to put in their signature "boycott bitcoin"

Last three posts are the most obvious altcoin shilling troll posts I have seen for a bit. Jesus.

with you on that one.

we are actually the last ones with some ethics around here.

here's  the campaign:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=921887.0

I was really surprised that the Fed managed to stop QE.
All the banks were engaging their spin doctors to predict doomsday scenarios if QE was stopped...

selloff accelerating. Now exponentially going down.

Well said. :P

That is exactly how it is. It is currently just a tool for whales to make profit. Bitcoin is far away from failure. And the time for the real affect is coming closer than ever.

Uh, this is a Speculation forum. It's dedicated to discussions on Bitcoin price.

These people are all in a pain soon (they already are) because they weren't able to overcome the cognitive dissonance.

They have all been programmed by the last bubble and the talk of the bulltards. Now they can't break out from their programming. Sucks if you're bad at math and invest based on hype.

It's actually the exact same people who toldyou weeks ago about the exponential growth that now tell you 'price doesn't matter'

This is a house of clowns not being able to tell left from right.

HOT AIR!