Bitcoin Forum

To all interested parties:

I would like to request gigaminers and other interested parties feedback on the upgrade paths from Gigamining to Teramining. I have outlined my initial thoughts below but this is not final and could be changed based on community feedback.

I will offer a trade-up program from Gigamining to Teramining. Below is what each bond looks like from a numbers perspective:


You will notice that Teramining has 4 times the number of shares as Gigamining. This is to allow for both a free and paid upgrade path.

Free Upgrade Path
I will offer a 1:1 exchange of Gigamining bonds for Teramining bonds that costs nothing to upgrade. An example would be if you have 400 Gigamining bonds and don’t want to pay to upgrade, you can swap them 1:1 for Teramining bonds. This would represent a 5x increase in the bonds hashing power at no additional cost. So in this case, the 400 Gigamining bonds (2Gh) would be upgraded to 400 Teramining bonds (10Gh).

Paid Upgrade Path
I will also offer a 1:4 exchange of Gigamining bonds for Teramining bonds. So, if you have 400 Gigamining bonds (2Gh) and pay the upgrade fee, you will receive 1,600 Teramining bonds (40Gh) in return. The fee to upgrade will be .25 BTC per Gigamining bond. So, the upgrade fee on 400 Gigamining bonds would be 100 BTC.

Initial Sales of Teramining
There will be no public or private offering of Teramining to the larger community. The only way to receive Teramining bonds will be to trade-in your Gigamining bonds either through the free or paid upgrade paths. Any bonds not sold will remain in the gigamining sub-account and will not have coupon payments paid out on them.

Contract Changes
The only contract change between Gigamining and Teramining is the amount of Mh/s per bond.

Please leave your comments and questions below and I will answer them to the best of my ability. My hope is to solidify this in a timely manner so there is less uncertainty around the future of Gigamining.

Best regards,
gigavps

Q&A

Q: Will Gigamining exist after Teramining is released?
A: If everyone does not upgrade, gigamining will still exist. Only once all bonds are recalled will Gigamining cease to pay out coupon payments.

Q: Will you send a notice out to Gigaminers as we get closer to ASIC arriving?
A: Yes. I will make EVERY ATTEMPT to make sure all Gigaminers upgrade. This includes more forum notifications and through GLBSE.

Q: How will you upgrade bond holders?
A: This will be a manual process using a spreadsheet and the transfer function of GLBSE. I will work with nefario to make sure they are compensated appropriately.

Q: When can I let you know my intentions of upgrading?
A: If you feel your holdings will be stable over the next couple of months, you may fill out this form (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dE1KdUpIRWNGbmQ0c3QtTzB2YzFPSmc6MQ).

Q: When will the upgrade process start?
A: This will probably start once I receive the equipment. That being said, I also need to make sure things are stable before releasing the new bond.

Q: Will you ever sell more Teramining bonds?
A: This is very real possibility, but for the initial release of Teramining, I want only current Gigamining bond holders to have this opportunity.

Q: Will the .25 BTC upgrade price be effected by a big swing in exchange rates?
A: Yes. If the price of Bitcoins goes to $12 in October, we'll set a new BTC price for the upgrade.

Q: Will you change your forum handle to teravps?
A: No. My wife likes the word "giga".  ;)

Interesting. I think its rather nice of you to offer a free upgrade path.  It will probably still be a patch on a wooden leg for bond holders, but its better than no patch at all, and you didnt have to do this.

However, I dont think the paid upgrade path makes a lot of sense. IMO hashrate is going to increase by much more than 4x, so the upgrade will still end up being a downgrade from a coupon payment POV. At least in the longer run. If you get your machines early there might be some good months that could make it worth while I guess, havent done the math on that yet.

I will upgrade all my bonds with the 1:4 path for 0.25 BTC each.

What if in the future you want to raise more money for Teramining? Won't you sell bonds then?

The whole bonds as a hashrate/second seems to have sort of been blown to pieces lately. It really doesn't allow for people to invest in individual companies, only hashrates. I would rather invest in Teramining, the company. Yes, I know that we are investing in the solvency of the companies, but it's not enough.

I would rather own a share of Teramining and earn dividends that are directly proportional to how well Teramining as a company is doing. This means other things come into play, like electric bills, efficiency, taxes, etc. Right now all I'm gambling on is future difficulty of mining. That's kind of lame.

My advice is to work on an upgrade path that allows us to invest in Teramining the company.

Do you have an idea on when you will start the upgrade? Will it be when you get shipping confirmation or after you've had time to get the new units setup and running?




I'm fairly confident at this point that for the first run of asics everyone receiving them will be highly profitable at current BTC prices. Even considering the diff increas from the first run.

I too would like more opportunity to invest in the actuall company. This does not work well in mining companies though. namely because they would have to restructure the entire payout scheme to allocate earnings towards growth. Then the idea is you would profit more in the long run from taking smaller dividends. If it were companies that were doing more than mining or were building hardware and mining then I could see it. Otherwise the only other option is for the company owner to use their personal earnings for growth and payout higher dividends not only to their own shares but to everyone elses as well who did not pay for the growth.

I have answered this in the Q&A post.


Thank you for your feedback. I will take this into consideration.

It is useful to view mining bonds are depleting assets, like oil or gas wells. You can always reinvest a portion of dividends into additional bonds to maintain the nominal coupon amount.


There are other instruments out there to do this. I don't think Gigavps wants to sell equity as it appears he has a lower WACC with debt issuance. So it might just be a matter of price; I suppose you could grossly overpay for an equity stake and Gigavps would likely take it.

I have answered this question in the Q&A.


I have done some initial calculations and I would agree with this assessment.

This was by no means a must by gigavps, but keeping people happy will probably benefit the bonds as a whole, and i am happy :)

I think that the free upgrade is both generous & far sighted, I shall take the paid 4:1 option most probably depending on the consensus nearer the time, many thanks giga.

I'm very interested in this. I have 247 shares of GIGAMINING and I would definitely trade these in for TERAMINING shares ASAP. I would take the paid upgrade path.

How about the lady in the picture then? :P

I would be interested about how you came to the valuation of 0.25 BTC for the "upgrade" price. After all, it means 1 Gigamining share is worth 25/3 = 8.33... Bitcents if 3 additional shares are worth 25 Bitcents initially... is it just a token amount to make sure people actually pay _something_, even if it's cheap or what else were your considerations/calculations regarding this price?

I would also like to say that, by providing this upgrade option, you have earned a HUGE amount of trust far above and beyond that of other similar bonds issuers, and therefore I will seriously take this into consideration when deciding where to invest in the future.

I bought some Gigamining bonds at the rate of 1.5 BTC. Now it seems i have to pay another 0.25 BTC/per bond to get Teramining bonds.........

Someone knows something which I don't.

I have to say I was skeptical about the upgrade process but I like what I've read so far.

Cheers.


You obviously didn't read the whole first post.  Or didn't understand it.

Paid upgrade path here as well please!

Very excited about this!

BITBOND (https://us.glbse.com/asset/view/BITBOND) is another quality mining infrastructure and a larger scale than Gigavps's. If I recall Gigavps even has some equipment in one of BITBOND's facilities.

The problem I have with BITBOND is they have no intention or ability to upgrade when ASIC come.  It's a losing bet now.

So even though your upgrade path has already been bought and paid for by your original investors you use this as an opportunity to put even more of these peoples money into your pocket, what a scamming piece of shit.

For the intellectually challenged out there the second offering of 100gh/s in the gigaminning venture has already gave him twice as much as was needed to pay for the upgrade to the th/s boxes. In other words you are paying twice for an upgrade offer to what should be your 100mh/s you would have when those already bought and paid for with your money th/s boxes arrive.

Oh and BTW just where did those four mini-rigs that were supposed to be bought with that second round of funding go?

Hi Sukrim,

The price for the upgrade was not meant to be a reflection of the value of gigamining. I wanted to give as much value for gigaminers ONLY.

This is why Teramining will only be release to existing bond holders and why the upgrade price is attractive.

Hi DILLIGAF,

I'm sorry you feel it necessary to call me names. I find it to be poor taste on your part and it doesn't really help your argument much. Posters in the gigamining thread have already said as much, but it seems that you don't learn your lessons.


Since you are so interested, I'll clue you in. Your information in imperfect. I am actually waiting on a reply from a mini rig purchaser to buy more mini rigs before ASIC comes out. I have yet to hear an answer, hence why I have yet to post anything about it.

You would be wise in the future to ask questions before calling me names and assuming my intentions. From your past actions though, it seems you will not learn this lesson.

Best regards,
gigavps

I see the price is rising ;D

This is a good reason to BUY gigamining! The only way you're getting teramining.

BTW, I'm not selling. Little mad I didn't buy more at 0.95

The only question now remains will giga still be king?  Or can other mining companies match or beat his offer?

Better get your bids in.  The buy side isn't moving.

On it ;)

I have not talked to all of them yet but a vast majority of my buddies who bought GIGAMINING (a very large block of shares) all expect to take the 0.25 upgrade offer given a reasonable price for BTC at that time.

How am I paying twice to get a free upgrade to 5X per share?

Also, paying .25 (depending on price of BTC at time) is a great deal for 3 more shares at 5X.

So, by not doing anything at all your bond will appreciate to 6.25 BTC from current market value of 1.25 BTC.

But by paying .25 BTC you've increased your stake 4 fold to a 25 BTC per gigamining share valuation from current market value of 1.25 BTC.

It's what's called a win-win.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback thus far on the transition from Gigamining to Teramining. The response has been overwhelmingly positive thus far.

If you feel that your holdings in Gigamining are going to be stable until October, we can start the process of collecting upgrade choices.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dE1KdUpIRWNGbmQ0c3QtTzB2YzFPSmc6MQ

The form should be pretty simple to fill out and will allow me to start getting a sense of what's to come.

Best,
gigavps

Copy made on 8.jul.2012.
All the edits are made by gigavps before I made this copy.


So far I have never seen 200Gh on http://gigamining.com/mgpumon/ I have no problem with this. As I understand, vps is buying more equipment, already paid by bond holders from IPOs.

All the BFL FPGA´s, that are paid in full by bond holders money will be swapped for ASICs.

BFL singles cost about $15295 and can do 25 Gh, ao 1 Gh = 611 USD
This equipment, bond holders have paid for, is going to be replaced ASIC SC and $29,899 cranks out 1000 Gh - 29 USD per Gh.
Right. The difference in $ per Gh is 21 times.  
What confuses me little bit is this upgrade that replaces my 5 Mh turd with 25 Mh turd (1:1) when I do  not pay you additional 0.25BTC (25% from "IPO?")
Lets say all bond holders pay you 0.25 BTC per bond = outstanding shares 40000 x 0.25 BTC aka you get additional 10 000 BTC for absolutely nothing. (https://glbse.com/api/quantity_trading/GIGAMINING )

No, if I pay you additional 25% fee (0.25 BTC per per turd), I´ll get a 1:4 swap and my 5 Gh turd gives me 100Gh.

What I actually like see is that 5 Gh gets converted to 100Gh at no additional cost for the bond holders, who have already paid for the equipment.

It is possible, I have misunderstood this swap or there is a good chance that I am actually correct and you are fisting us all for additional 10K BTC.
Can someone check my math because I am on the fishing trip and my mind is somewhere else :) and this damn device I use really sucks.

Hi EskimoBob,

Your assumptions are off as not everyone will choose the paid upgrade path. I have tried to keep Gigamining owners from being left behind when ASIC arrives with the free upgrade option.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Best,
gigavps

You saying Mhs or Ghs?
The Gigamining bond so far is 5 Mhs only

I came up with a new cost of $152.09 per GH using your math. That would make it just over 4x. He is offering 5x for the free upgrade path......

using your $611 per GH x 200 = $122,200 + $29,899 = $152,099 / 1000 = $152.09 per GH

$611 / $152.09 = 4.017x

5MH to 25MH is 5x

Sounds like a pretty, damn good deal to me. Unless we are expected to believe that a company owner has 0 right to profit then this is a fine offering imho.


edit; and just beacuse I know it will be asked. Even considering the .25BTC upgrade option, if every bond holder utilizes  it, which would then take the upgrade cost to 7x. You are then receiving 20x MH.....  If you need me to I can show the math there as well.

I very much like this, and would take the paid upgrade path. Out of curiosity, will GIGAMINING still exist after this transition, or are you going to call all of those bonds back? I imagine it wouldn't make sense for someone to not take the free upgrade path, but once the transition happens, anyone left behind would basically have a worthless bond, right?

Also, will you send a notice out to all GIGAMINING holders before you undergo this process (e.g., through GLBSE mail or something)? My holdings will not be stable (I will probably pick up more shares) so I don't want to fill out that form, but since it's literally going to be months, I don't want to accidentally forget about this, either.

I guess I just don't understand how people who invest don't understand basic math.  Nice explanation for the dumb investors.

Anyway you look at it, it's a good deal.  You win whether you choose to pay or not.  Period.

Also for those who choose not to upgrade for .25 BTC will those shares be paid out to everyone else instead?

Hi Skirik,

I have answered your questions in the second post of this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92090.msg1014690#msg1014690

Best,
gigavps

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dE1KdUpIRWNGbmQ0c3QtTzB2YzFPSmc6MQ

This is also in the FAQ in the second post.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I am locking the thread and anymore comments you have can be made in the gigamining thread.