Bitcoin Forum

Satoshi Nakamoto set in motion the unraveling of the nation state and the end of central banking – two closely related institutions that have directed history since history has been recorded. When we come to understand the economic and technological implications of bitcoin, we arrive at a somewhat startling yet undeniable conclusion: that bitcoin will end the nation state.

Read The Full Article (https://diginomics.com/news/bitcoin-will-end-the-nation-state/)

I've heard a few arguements around this type of thing, but not from this perspective. This is interesting.

Bitcoin will not die. Every time is gets attacked it only grows stronger. It is like a virus spreading with no cure. Except this time, it is a welcomed virus. Our laws today are ineffective and only serve a tiny fraction.

I have my concerns, but I think we're on to something here ...

There are many topics on this subject already.
Please, see that there are several countries without any kind of income tax already, just as there are countries without their own currency. Never underestimate the nation-state, it's a super smart and fast evolving beast.

I agree that the nation state (and the people behind it) are super smart. But a fast-evolving beast?

Bitcoin's pace of evolution makes the nation state look like a horse-drawn carriage to Henry Ford's Model T.

I don't think it will end it directly, but we can continue to outsource it's functions piecemeal, in 50 years we might have got somewhere.

Still not realistic that Bitcoin will eliminate the nation state. The infrastructure required for the function of Bitcoin is all controlled by individual nation states. Internet, security, and taxation. All of which can be used against the proliferation of Bitcoin.

Ecuador's official currency is the U.S. Dollar, but I understand they want to outlaw Bitcoin and launch their own government cryptocurrency.

There you go then. The nation state controls the environment for a concurrency to flourish or vanish! 

Yes but at some point down the road some people will speak out that Bitcoin is good for the people and then a governmnt won't be able to deny it. I can't see how Bitcoin can't advance over time even if it's one step forwards two steps back most of the time, it can't be stopped. Plus it will show up what fiat really is in time, fiats collapse, we know that from history, so it's just a matter of time.

The biggest threat to Bitcoin is a governmnt developed crypto like Ethereum or something similar. And I worry the sheeple will accept it as Bitcoin.

This subject reminds me of that paper going around awhile back. I'll post the link.

http://bitcoinunion.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/bitcoin-swift-and-the-brics/

This is a VERY interesting Paper.

It indicates that 250 million dollars could take bitcoin to a new level. It could be used by a coalition of countries as a payment system that would combat the US's ability to wage economic war on the world. It could be accomplished through the "SWIFT" Telecommunications Network. The author is calmly pointing out that this could effectively be done in an instant. The paper finishes by suggesting that even a few whales could make it happen.

I'm using my intuition, but I don't think this should be taken as lightly as it was written. They have explained something about global finance I have been searching for since knowing about game theory economics and Bitcoin.

This is a very intelligent game theoretical solution for a serious economic situation.

It is a brag almost, if its correct. The author seems to KNOW its correct.

In my opinion, the author is calmly suggesting, after first doing the math (and including 30 trillion I could have never realize existed), that a giant shift in the economics of the world could be achieved over night with a VERY insignificant amount of money. It could happen in one single blow. A giant amount of power could be taken away from those that are now in control the global economy.

They didn't ask if its correct, they said:  

Quote

"So I wonder who will be first to move".

This person is seeing and describing a war that most people cannot fathom exists, and just spelled out creation of the "atom bomb" that could put a stop to it.

Edit: for info provited by another member.

Even if the whole world used a single currency, nation states will exist.
There are reasons for a group of people to be selfish with the resources in the area they live in.

I travel a lot and often. I became a travelling nomad last year and a few days ago I decided to not work as an employee anymore but work and travel the world as I want. When I go to some country I have long and profound conversations about what the people think of their country, their culture, their political leaders, the relationship of their country to their neighbors but also its role in the world.

All of these experiences made me realize that people are such victims of their politicians that nourish the nation state idea and use it to sustain their own power.

I think it would be great if bitcoin could take away part of their power.

Imagine: When people demonstrate against something the state is supposedly doing wrong and there is police forces defending then the latter people are not voluntarily doing this job. They do it because they get paid for this. They get paid with the money the government controls and whose use it enforces on the people. And its people who make this money being worth something. With their work, their produce, their lifetime. So the quickest way to defeat the state is to refuse using its money.

Unfortunately a falling exchange rate makes people afraid of refusing government money. I hope some wealthy anti-nation state types have a plan how to stabilise btc one day. ;-)

The author, "snagain", is all over the reddit thread.  He seems to have plenty of time to try to convince the people who don't believe him or don't get it, sorry

If Bitcoin was the only money in the world, there would still be governments.  Governments would still pay soldiers and police, and those people would still need that money to feed their children.

are not those religious institutions now the richest organisations on the planet

Interesting read, Bitcoin is fragile right now,BIG players will make a massive difference if they decide to go for it,time will tell

Thanks for the info, I'll edit my post......

1) The roman empire is an example of a similar structure that existed before fiat

2) Bitcoin is not "untaxable" ..  in fact M1 cash is less taxable than bitcoin (more anonymous)

I guess not but it removes national boundaries and limits for capital flows, to some extent. The EUR did not end the Nation states in Europe either.

The only difference is they are wearing Suits now instead of Togas......

A good toga cost around 1 ounce of gold, and so does a good suit today. 2000 years, same price.

So there is a difference; roman money, based on gold (originally, later it was diluted) did not lose purchase power

The USD lost 99% of its purchase power in just 100 years.

cool. but not in our lifetime.

The EUR has actually increased the squabbling, with countries blaming each other for the monetary mess.  ;D

Are we now talking about the US who unilaterally attacks other countries under the false pretext that they must protect
American interests?

I agree. That is why I see fear all around and especially the need to ensure bitcoin fails at all cost. Bitcoin is the answer and solution to all these.

they might try to force it on us..But it is up to us to accept it or not.! The masses can alter the decision taken by the nation state.!

The masses will only do what they think is right based on what they see in the mass media. Back to square one.

I don't think it will ended so easily like this, Use your social media, increase publicity about it.

correct, bitcoin is in fact not something ordinary, but bitcoin is a remarkable thing that ever changing world.
and he will continue to survive

Bitcoin won't end the nation state, nation state violence meeting expanding empathy will end the nation state.

Social media can influence opinions as well.
It would be very, very difficult for governments to gag social media.

It's all about getting bitcoin trendy in twitter, its all we need to get it mainstream as hell.

I think adoption is a way bigger factor. (I just bought nba2k on my xbox with bitcoin)

Spot on gentleman. If you haven't already, I invite you to check out Stefan Molyneux's Bitcoin vs. Political Power (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY&list=PLpWIYlii1DebbcWHJuhqxoIis7e7If7ht). Quite possibly the best presentation describing the political-economic implications of bitcoin as a money system.

Let's break out of the loop.

I think the nation-state will simply end Bitcoin if cryptocurrency becomes too much of a threat to the central banks.  They can easily regulate it out of existence, or simply ban it outright and impose absurd penalties for holding BTC. 

Tough for democracies to do this without justification.

I think Moriarty is overestimating the power of the nation state. Not everything is within the governments jurisdiction (or possibility) of regulating.

Attempting to regulate bitcoin through judicial legislation will be as futile as regulating the direction of the wind.

The handwriting is on the wall. Sooner or later the governments are going to panic and get nasty about bitcoin. No income tax revenues? It will force the govenrments to downsize but they will put up a nasty fight.

This thing about tax makes no sense.  If you can tax dollars you can tax bitcoins.  It's just money, same thing.  Unless by "tax" you mean "counterfeit"..  in which case it's a little different.