Bitcoin Forum

Let's say he is bearish :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPiPTjpSgI

Peter Schiff's views on the economy are very good and he usually makes very good and interesting bearish points on Bitcoin but he is missing the big picture about Bitcoin because he doesn't understand the use of the technology.

On the video he missed the point about Bitcoin that is useful, Bitcoin can have a 400 Billions market cap while visa and western union still exist and the Winklevoss twins will not unload at 100$.

He was saying Facebook was overvalued when its market cap was 10 Billions and it is 215 Billions now.
He still says Facebook is overvalued and doesn't earn anything when their EBITA was 8.1 Billions in 2015 and they have 11.3 Billions in cash!

Peter Schiff suffers from the same condition Warren Buffet suffers from, which consists on not being able to see whats going on beyond fiat, metals and regular stocks: Being old as fuck.

He is right on many things but thinks to disregard all digital companies or innovations.

Peter Schiff hasn't been right about anything for a long time now. If the Fed raises interest rates like they say they will, it will be the final nail in his coffin.

He has underestimated the time the market needs to react, he has been wrong on what the market reaction will be to a specific event he was forecasting, he has been wrong on facebook, he is probably wrong on amazon and bitcoin even if he sometimes raises good questions.

But he has been right on the dotcom bubble, the real estate bubble, qe2, qe3, gold not decreasing in 2014..

If the FED raises interest rates to 5%, unwind its balance sheet without any markets going down and if they don't have to back track, decrease interest rates and start qe4 then he would have been wrong but it is not going to happen.

With the Treasury having amassed (and still amassing) the largest debt in human history, there's no chance the Fed is going to raise interest rates by any meaningful amount, for any substantial length of time.  They might stick their toe in the water, but that'll be about it.

Peter Schiff just a d-bag. Just cant stand his monotone flapping

Indeed, is not going to happpen. QE4, wil be started soon

Peter Shiff puts me to sleep faster than melatonin. This guy is a broken record and a gold dinosaur. A walking boat misser.

So much negativity on Peter Schiff here. He has been often right when everyone was delusional and he has been right on gold since gold rose from 300$ when he said to buy it to 1280$ now.

Some things Peter Schiff say are right: for example, the upcoming QE4 (or whatever name they want give to it).
In fact, IMHO, they have already switched on the printing presses.
The USD Money Base (MB) grew 256 billions December 24 compared to two weeks earlier. This brough the inlfation rate over one year from 0.something% to 8.8% in two weeks. And the next data released kept the value there (7.7% and 8.x%).

This is the largest increase of the MB in the last 4 years. Not only in absolute numbers but also in proportion to the existing MB.

If the MB increase exceed the increase of Bitcoins in existance (now around 9.8-9.7%, ) this will cause an increase in adoption for Bitcoin in the USD area (people will start to buy BTCs and sell $ as a form of savings and speculation). If the ECB start its QE program and the Fed. follows few weeks or months later, we will see an increasing adoption from the € area (the people using € in Europe and around the world) and the USD area (the people using USD around the world and in the US). This could propel the price pretty up up up in the 5000€/$ range

BTW, the current situation of the SCB is pretty interesting:
They printed 8x franc compared to 7 years ago, to prevent the exchange rate to go ballistic.
If the bank need to stay solvent, it will be forced to buy back the francs it sold at lower prices than it sold them (just to make a small profit or a little loss). This will work as a price floor for the Swiss Franc against the €. So, if the franc start to be sold, the SCB need to buy them at less than 1.2 €/franc. The big problem, for the SCB is if the francs it sold start to buy Real Estate in Switzerland. It could rocket the prices in the Twilight Zone.

True, he's had some good predictions but he's just too short sighted when it comes to a thing like crypto. He's feeling like a god now that Bitcoin is crashing but when it comes back he'll have nowhere to hide and will be forced to henceforth admit he was wrong.

He's all about gold.

When gold shot up, he was the man and predicted everything.

Not so much now.

He started accepting Bitcoin on his website by the way.

From the show:
"Even the people in Bitcoin aren't going to say it's better than gold"

I travel a lot, move a lot and consider myself more of a global citizen where I do not plan on living in one place for too long. So I live in a temporary apartment, I can fit everything I own in a carry on and backpack.

If I had as much gold as I do in Bitcoin I would have so much difficulty doing anything. This past summer I traveled with all of my belongings from Afghanistan to Dubai to the US then Turkey and finally settling in Germany. I carried everything I own to each location. I could not imagine going through so many airports with over 100 oz of gold. The weight alone would have been difficult, going through security would be crazy and the customs would be tedious. I would worry about someone at every border taking my gold, staying in hotels I would be paranoid about leaving the room (they could steal my laptop with my private keys but they would need 5 different difficult passwords to get to my bitcoins so that getting stolen would only inconvenience me).
I'm in an apartment where the landlord comes in and cleans once a week. I can't imagine hiding a bunch of gold in here. Or going into the woods and burying it. I have no idea how to get a German safety deposit box if I wanted to go that route.

I like gold but there is no way I can buy any. Sure, it is useful in computers until they figure out something cheaper.

I spend my bitcoins. I get paid in dollars but spend euros so being able to use bitwage.co to get paid in bitcoins and spend it for anything online and sell it for euros locally is much better than somehow getting paid in dollars then buying gold then looking for a way to sell gold locally or somehow spend it online.

I can pool my bitcoins with other people and vote anonymously, securely and transparently using the blockchain. To do that with gold would require some sort of gathering in a room, maybe some blindfolds and secret marks on each coin...I don't know how it could be done with gold.

I never thought gold was very fashionably pretty, I just think of a 70s pimp or Mr. T when I think of it as jewelry. I much prefer the look of silver.

So...

tl;dr "Bitcoin is better than gold." -Elwar

A lot of the mainstream economists were derided when they were warning about BTC last year. Turns out they were correct and anyone who ignored them lost a lot of their wealth. Schiff may be wrong but there is a tendency to deride anyone who has a negative view.

You give them too much credit. There is a big difference between those predicting a drop of 75% from the top and those saying that Bitcoin is worthless. The former may have been correct (and I challenge you to find anyone with that prediction), but the latter could not be more wrong.

Sure thing Bitcoin was inflated, but they dont say that, they basically say Bitcoin is doomed in the long run.

Living the dream, Elwar.   I agree that Bitcoin is much more practical than gold for international travelers.  I think that the type of person who hoards gold bars is also the type who would buy a house in Iowa.   

Saying Bitcoin is useful is true and Schiff is wrong when he says Bitcoin is not useful and allows to do things that no other currency or security can do.

But when you criticise Gold saying it could be replaced in electronics or you don't like it as jewelry, you are doing the same thing Schiff is doing with Bitcoin. Gold is great, it has been a mean of exchange for thousands of years and it's the best metal in terms of properties. It will not be replaced easily, far less easily than Bitcoin.

I could do like you and say : "how can i use gold to make satellites or computers? Can you melt and shape easily bitcoin? Is it strong and resistant to water?"...

It is not gold or bitcoin; they are quite different in the sense that they have different qualities.

When the US Dollar will lose most its value in a short period of time, owning gold or bitcoin should be great.

I agree, and I would love to have gold at that time. But Bitcoin is much easier to use in such a situation.

Of course Bitcoin is great and easier to move, store and trade than Gold but Gold is great too. It is the father of Bitcoin.

Off topic but how come you have a Primedice signature? isnt the ad campaing over and not paying except staff members?

You are right it is pretty off topic  ;)

I have my ref link in the signature for hopes of getting someone who will register&play via my link

Bump

Peter Schiff is a gold only dinosaur, just like the rest of the gold only old people they dont fully get Bitcoin and miss on the boat, they'll get in way too late.

He is a metal salesmen! just ignore him

He doesn't like or fully understand Bitcoin but Gold and Bitcoin can co-exist and increase in value.

Peter Schiff is a great commentator on topics he has background and expertise in, and unfortunately this isn't one of those areas.

I agree with you, he has expertise in bubbles and he says Bitcoin is one but he said Facebook had no or very little value..

Gold is deprecated compared to bitcoin.
In fact everything is.
https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*8mimpqX08rd9eyToEgLQzg.png

Gold is used in various industries and in jewellery, it is the best metal and is trust by many everywhere in the world. It is not in the chart. I like the chart otherwise.

Bitcoin has value but it doesn't mean Gold doesn't.

You can find Peter Schiff on the Alex Jones show from early this year on youtube. There he says that the central bank interest rate could not go to 17% (like in Russia), not 7%, not even 1%, reason is the large USG debt.

Today, Yellen hinted that interest rate hikes could be postponed.

Did Schiff just spew out something randomly? I think not!

I dont trust gold unless the actual gold is sitting next to me.

Peter Schiff is coming around.  This is great news as he's got millions of followers who own a lot of gold. 

I don't even quite trust it when I own it physically. Who knows how much of it is out there. With crypto I know this.

You are right in regards to the opacity of the gold market and the price fixing by a happy few but they cannot fix the price for ever and we have an idea of how much gold has been extracted, how much is in the ground and how much it costs to extract it.

Owning it physically is safer than having paper gold from a company that is having fractional reserves and may go bankrupt.

Such a conservative man.
We're on a growing exponencial line in terms of technology advancements.
If people who are it their 30/40 sometimes have difficulties coping with novelty, imagine someone born before computers existed. Their minds simply cannot imagine many of the things that await us.

I think that's true for everyone, not just old people.

You think 30 to 40 is old?  LOL.  Winklevoss bros are 33 or 34

Only people who are 20 and younger were raised with recent technology, wild use of internet and mobiles.

To some extent it really is, because I'm in that exact demo as the Winklevoss brothers and I personally think alot of what the kids are doing is stupid!

Everyone that isn't on Bitcoin yet has an old man mind. That's a fact.

Adam Smith guesstimated that only one in a million understood inflation. Nowadays, maybe one in thousand understand fiat, bank money creation, central banking. Half the people understand that it is smart to own real value through being short fiat with leverage (which is another way of saying own a house with a mortgage and a small personal equity).

Almost nobody understand why a house have value, most people believe it has something to do with the cost of building the house (the defunct labour value theory). Most people trust the central banks. Most people believe the money is well managed.

It has nothing to do with age. I suspect some old people know about hyperinflation (but only in failed states, could never happen here).

some very old people in germany know about hyperinflation quite a bit.

well, actually I just looked it up. I guess there's not many left. Weimar hyperinflation was 1921-1924.

I think it has to do with education at school and ignorance. Children are taught the state takes the correct decisions to protect the people and especially the weak and the school system selects a small number of people to rule saying to the rest of them that they don't have the capacity to be in that small number of people.

Also, things were perceived as going correctly in the west for decades in the sense that they were not wars inside the country. So people trust the system. But what is happening is that the Central Banks and the governments have been mismanaging and hiding their errors while not being taken accountable for anything negative.
The west is rich so it is easier for politicians to hide their mistakes and act like everything is ok until the system will fall apart. When it does, they will not hesitate to blame it on the free market, an outside country or immigrants and they will suggest more government action to protect the people.

If you have 200millions, a successful business and you are gambling hundreds of thousands every week-end and having multiple mistresses, you will be able to hide your lies and bad habits to your wife for a while if she doesn't look closely at your expenses.

Old people always forget about generational gaps too.  As long as there is a counter-culture, a nerd culture, a tech culture, a drug culture, a black market culture... etc etc etc and as long as bitcoin or other digital provides a means to escape oppression... the oppressed or otherwise diminished populations may realize crypto as an attractive alternative to mainstream markets.

Indeed, most people have no idea how fiat and banks work, which in return puts us in an scenareo where Bitcoin makes no sense for them. To understand Bitcoin, you need to understand fiat and banks, but they are perfectly ok using fiat and banks without knowing how it works. This is a problem.

They are ok using it because there is little education explaining it and it is supposed to be safe, taking care of for the better good and protected by the government.
If the system was less protected, more would try to understand it to make good decisions and not give their hard earned money to anyone.

I doubt you know how banking works. 

Schiff is a gold bug, and his sentiment on BTC doesn't give any surprises. His business is selling pm's, being publicly skeptical of something that could nibble away at your business is rational.

The point about the Winklevii pretending to not follow the price very closely struck the "true" chord though. As did pointing out the fact that BTC reaching a valuation of all credit card companies + gold is ludicrous to say at this juncture. (Extreme contradiction of the under-promise, over-deliver maxim.)

I am pretty sure he did an interview after the $260 to mid double digits drop that echoed his comments about the 1100 to 200 drop. His comments devolve into saying how your gold hoard will always be good for shoving in your mouth as dental work, do that with your bitcoins! lol

BTC's got some problems, but I'm pretty sure looking to Peter for advice on the subject like asking your heating oil delivery guy about manufacturing raw lithium into something useful. Gold is a hedge on national currencies, financial structures, and shares. Bitcoin is a speculative bet on a new global value transfer and storage mechanism, which is quite reliant on communications infrastructure being there (Not Zombie Proof).
 

It's ridiculous... they think they know it all but they don't know the half of the crypto market.  It's already changing the world far beyond what they talk about in the interview.  just the tip of the iceberg