Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: lyth0s on February 03, 2015, 05:55:25 AM



Title: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 03, 2015, 05:55:25 AM
I'll try to keep this thread updated with the latest important economic troubles of the fiat world with small commentary and how it relates to bitcoin when appropriate.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 03, 2015, 05:57:29 AM
2/2/15 News

Australia cuts rates after long calm; Aussie dollar dives (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/australia-cuts-rates-after-long-calm-aussie-dollar-dives-2015-02-02)
Quote
After almost a year and a half of holding its policy interest rate unchanged, the Reserve Bank of Australia cut by a quarter percentage point Tuesday, citing weak inflation and a stronger-than-desired currency. The move put the cash rate at a historic low of 2.25%. With the interbank market having priced in a 60% chance of a cut, according to Reuters, the Australian dollar fell sharply on the news, dropping to 76.72 U.S. cents from 78 U.S. cents just before the announcement. Stocks rose, meanwhile, with the S&P/ASX 200  up 1.1%, extending its pre-decision gain of 0.3%. In comments accompanying the move, RBA Gov. Glenn Stevens said that the consumer price index "recorded the lowest increase for several years in 2014," and " it appears likely that inflation will remain consistent with the target over the next one to two years," given weak growth in labor costs. Meanwhile, Stevens repeated the RBA view that the Australian dollar remained "above most estimates of its fundamental value, particularly given the significant declines in key commodity prices."
--I expect them to begin QE within the next 2-3 years


China debt party nears the end of road (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-debt-party-nears-the-end-of-road-2015-02-02)  
Quote
As China enters its third year of slowing growth, there is growing concern the debt reckoning cannot be kicked down the road any longer, and the days of almost unlimited risk-free credit are coming to a close, writes Craig Stephen.
--China is much more fragile than most people think


Demand for residential mortgages continues to soften (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/demand-for-residential-mortgages-continues-to-soften-2015-02-02)
Quote
Demand for residential loans continued to weaken, despite the fact that banks have made it easier to get a mortgage, according to a survey released by the Federal Reserve Monday. “Weakening demand for residential loans...is broadly consistent with the weakening in home sales activity in recent months,” said Millan Mulraine, deputy head for U.S. research at TD Securities.
--I believe we've been in another housing market bubble for the past 1-2 years, it may pop this year alongside the stock market. IF the fed does decide to increase interest rates this year I would then expect housing prices to drop even further.


Euro Parity with Dollar by Year-End (http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/02/02/barclays-expects-euro-parity-with-dollar-by-year-end/)
Quote
A stronger-than-expected reaction to the European Central Bank’s asset-purchase program and increased risks of a crisis to the euro bloc have added to the pace of the common currency’s downward trajectory, says Barclays’ currency research group in a note to clients.

The bank predicts the euro will weaken to $1.08 by the end of June, and to $1.05 by the end of September. But Barclays anticipates that by the end of the year the euro will be trading at a 1-to-1 ratio with the dollar for the first time since 2002, the year it entered circulation as a physical currency. That forecast is down from Barclays’ earlier prediction that the euro would trade at $1.07 by the end of 2015
--But aiming for 2% inflation is good! Right?


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 05, 2015, 03:24:29 AM
2/4/15 News


Volatility in currencies nears highest level in two decades (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/volatility-in-currencies-nears-highest-level-in-two-decades-2015-02-04)
Quote
Only after the Asian financial crisis in 1997 and the days following the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008, have currencies been more volatile, said Bank of America Merrill Lynch strategist David Woo


--Currency volatility is increasing without any graphical evidence of a return to stability.

U.S. stocks end lower as ECB reject Greek bonds as collateral (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stocks-futures-tilt-lower-as-oil-gives-back-gains-adp-data-ahead-2015-02-04)
Quote
Just when U.S. stocks were rebounding, late-day news that the European Central Bank is rejecting Greek bonds as collateral sent stocks south, with the S&P 500 finishing lower on Wednesday.

After a four-day rally, which sent oil price up more than 20% oil prices fell sharply Wednesday, with March WTI crude CLH5, +0.87%  dropping nearly 9% to settle at $48.45 a barrel.
As a side note...looks like bitcoin volatility is almost lower than oil volatility

ECB blocks banks from using Greek debt as collateral (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ecb-blocks-banks-from-using-greek-debt-as-collateral-2015-02-04)
Quote
The European Central Bank said Wednesday it would suspend a waiver it had extended to Greek public securities used as collateral by the country’s financial institutions for central bank loans.
--Greece has less than 3 billion euro in reserve for government expenditures. Now without being able to raise additional funds through selling of there junk bonds (high chance of being unable to pay them back) they will have to borrow from the ECB's emergency lending program at higher interest rates which leads to even more debt. At this point if Greece was unable to find additional money to fuel their expenses their government will become bankrupt within the next 4 weeks (but creditors are almost always more willing to take restructurings to at least get some of their money back)


Euro/USD is slipping: https://www.google.com/finance?q=EURUSD&ei=_2TQVNnWH4uNrQGCpoHQBA will we reach parity this year?


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: ajw7989 on February 05, 2015, 03:58:31 AM
Interesting stuff thanks for sharing. The Euro/USD might have some real impact soon. Since I use USD hopefully they equalize  ;D


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on February 05, 2015, 03:25:58 PM
2/2/15 News

Australia cuts rates after long calm; Aussie dollar dives (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/australia-cuts-rates-after-long-calm-aussie-dollar-dives-2015-02-02)
Quote
After almost a year and a half of holding its policy interest rate unchanged, the Reserve Bank of Australia cut by a quarter percentage point Tuesday, citing weak inflation and a stronger-than-desired currency. The move put the cash rate at a historic low of 2.25%. With the interbank market having priced in a 60% chance of a cut, according to Reuters, the Australian dollar fell sharply on the news, dropping to 76.72 U.S. cents from 78 U.S. cents just before the announcement. Stocks rose, meanwhile, with the S&P/ASX 200  up 1.1%, extending its pre-decision gain of 0.3%. In comments accompanying the move, RBA Gov. Glenn Stevens said that the consumer price index "recorded the lowest increase for several years in 2014," and " it appears likely that inflation will remain consistent with the target over the next one to two years," given weak growth in labor costs. Meanwhile, Stevens repeated the RBA view that the Australian dollar remained "above most estimates of its fundamental value, particularly given the significant declines in key commodity prices."
--I expect them to begin QE within the next 2-3 years



And they have plenty of more room to cut. The RBA has been talking down their dollar for a while (it was over 1.05US for a while). As Asia slows it has finally descended with commodities tanking (and really without RBA intervention other than talking). So anyways, .65c is traditional levels and it will get there as the slowdown finally hits. If Aus joins the QE madness, things will be real bad elsewhere.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: stonerider on February 05, 2015, 04:25:10 PM
thanks lythos! very interesting and I find your comments insightful.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: westhamfan on February 05, 2015, 04:26:19 PM
I'm liking the look of this thread. I'll definitely be keeping an eye of it over the next few weeks.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on February 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
Not sure if OP is looking to moderate this thread, but I'll add this to the stack of news today

Denmark rates go negative on 4th cut in 3 weeks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-05/it-will-now-cost-you-075-save-money-denmark-danish-central-bank-cuts-rates-fourth-ti


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 06, 2015, 04:10:38 AM
Not sure if OP is looking to moderate this thread, but I'll add this to the stack of news today

Denmark rates go negative on 4th cut in 3 weeks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-05/it-will-now-cost-you-075-save-money-denmark-danish-central-bank-cuts-rates-fourth-ti

I kept the thread open to moderation in case discussion gets too off hand or if I get flooded with personal insults etc.

Great article find. I will add it to my list today :)


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 06, 2015, 04:11:14 AM
thanks lythos! very interesting and I find your comments insightful.

Thank you stonerider, I appreciate the feedback :)


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 06, 2015, 04:47:19 AM
News 2/5/15

It Will Now Cost You 0.75% To Save Money In Denmark: Danish Central Bank Cuts Rates For FOURTH Time In Three Weeks (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-05/it-will-now-cost-you-075-save-money-denmark-danish-central-bank-cuts-rates-fourth-ti)

Quote
It has become a weekly thing now. In its desperation to preserve the EURDKK peg, the Danish central banks has cut rates into negative, then cut them again, then again last week, and moments ago, just cut its deposit rate to negative one more time, pushing NIRP from -0.5% to -0.75%, its fourth "surprise" rate cut in the past 3 weeks!


--I imagine that Denmark will soon also have to unpeg themselves from the Euro and more countries will soon follow. You cant simply start printing 60 billion Euro a month for 2 years and just hope that other countries "buy" your inflation from you.....unless your currently the world reserve currency such as the USD, but who knows for much longer that will last. Also with the USD and Euro falling on hard times that gives the BRIC's (Brazil, russia, india, china and south africa's soon-to-be version of the IMF) to potentially come in and make some major changes.

Greece and Germany can’t even agree to disagree (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greece-and-germany-cant-even-agree-to-disagree-2015-02-05)

Quote
...Schaeuble stressing that bailout promises must be kept if Greece is not to lose international trust and confidence and, lastly, Varoufakis pointing out that Greece will never recover under the weight of its current debt load.

Greece and its European partners — including Germany — have to come to an agreement before the current bailout program ends on Feb. 28 or Greece is at risk of running out of money. However, during Thursday’s press conference Varoufakis stepped up his push for a bridge loan to buy time for negotiations with the country’s creditors.

--Time is ticking before Greece could default. Germany ~= ECB and neither wants to really work on keeping Greece from defaulting. I really wonder what Greece will end up doing under these circumstances...

Very weird: Corporate bond rates go negative (http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/05/investing/nestle-corporate-bonds-negative-rates/index.html)
Quote
In an unprecedented event, the yield on Nestle's corporate debt went negative this week.

That means investors are essentially willing to pay for the right to park their cash in the safety of the Swiss chocolate company. The bonds might as well come with a note saying: "In Nestle we trust."

"You're looking at something that's never happened before. It's a brand-new phenomenon," said Richard Salditt, a credit analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. "Strange things are going on in financial markets."
--Just found this. Even companies that are being considered as "safe havens" for money have a negative yield rate! WTH is going on in our financial world today. :P


That's all I have for today. Maybe tomorrow will be more interesting.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on February 06, 2015, 08:09:26 AM
Nice posts, keep it going!

The negative interest on bonds proved that people who have fiat money are desperately buying any asset that they can get their hands on. I have not been able to imagine a possible event to trigger the collapse of fiat money, but I think it is coming from the shaken confidence, and it is getting close


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on February 06, 2015, 12:13:00 PM
Nice posts, keep it going!

The negative interest on bonds proved that people who have fiat money are desperately buying any asset that they can get their hands on. I have not been able to imagine a possible event to trigger the collapse of fiat money, but I think it is coming from the shaken confidence, and it is getting close

Forgot where I read it, but an interesting perspective on this: yields are chasing down the dis-inflation rate. If nominal rates are -3% then even if bonds go to -1% it is still a +2% in effect. But the combination of this, deflation and currency wars all lead to either hyperinflation or monetary reset.

Lythos good point re: Denmark. Being smaller than the EU / US, how long can they expand their balance sheets before it affects them negatively? 


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on February 07, 2015, 03:33:25 AM
Nice posts, keep it going!

The negative interest on bonds proved that people who have fiat money are desperately buying any asset that they can get their hands on. I have not been able to imagine a possible event to trigger the collapse of fiat money, but I think it is coming from the shaken confidence, and it is getting close

Forgot where I read it, but an interesting perspective on this: yields are chasing down the dis-inflation rate. If nominal rates are -3% then even if bonds go to -1% it is still a +2% in effect. But the combination of this, deflation and currency wars all lead to either hyperinflation or monetary reset.

Lythos good point re: Denmark. Being smaller than the EU / US, how long can they expand their balance sheets before it affects them negatively?  

I think that will not be a problem, the asset side keeps growing and the liability side (money) is actually hold by the large commercial banks, as long as these banks have a mutual agreement with central bank to not let their huge stash of cash flow out, there will be no inflation


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 07, 2015, 05:47:15 AM
Nice posts, keep it going!

The negative interest on bonds proved that people who have fiat money are desperately buying any asset that they can get their hands on. I have not been able to imagine a possible event to trigger the collapse of fiat money, but I think it is coming from the shaken confidence, and it is getting close

Yeah I agree with this. People are looking for any stable asset they can that will hopefully do better than an inflated currency (which would then end up also bumping the price of the asset up).

Nice posts, keep it going!

The negative interest on bonds proved that people who have fiat money are desperately buying any asset that they can get their hands on. I have not been able to imagine a possible event to trigger the collapse of fiat money, but I think it is coming from the shaken confidence, and it is getting close

Forgot where I read it, but an interesting perspective on this: yields are chasing down the dis-inflation rate. If nominal rates are -3% then even if bonds go to -1% it is still a +2% in effect. But the combination of this, deflation and currency wars all lead to either hyperinflation or monetary reset.

Lythos good point re: Denmark. Being smaller than the EU / US, how long can they expand their balance sheets before it affects them negatively? 

So much of the market price of any asset or currency (which I also view as an asset) is just based on the sentiment of the investors. I don't think there will be a fixed number at which it would start to have an effect. I think it will be more of a gradual change away from fiat and I'll post an article in a minute on the subject.

Quote
I'm think that will not be a problem, the asset side keeps growing and the liability side (money) is actually hold by the large commercial banks, as long as these banks have a mutual agreement with central bank to not let their huge stash of cash flow out, there will be no inflation
Well the idea behind QE is to print money to give to banks, the banks should then be loaning out that money to business etc and thus not only spur economic growth but also cause a bit of inflation to reach their 2-3% inflation goals. Eventually that money will hit the market and then a while down the road people will realize that monetary policy has made the money less valuable and THEN inflation hits. I honestly expect to see BIG changes in peoples (mainstream) attitude to fiat currencies by the end of 2016.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on February 07, 2015, 05:53:44 AM
Well the idea behind QE is to print money to give to banks, the banks should then be loaning out that money to business etc and thus not only spur economic growth but also cause a bit of inflation to reach their 2-3% inflation goals. Eventually that money will hit the market and then a while down the road people will realize that monetary policy has made the money less valuable and THEN inflation hits. I honestly expect to see BIG changes in peoples (mainstream) attitude to fiat currencies by the end of 2016.

That's the plan, but now every major institution knows this and they will not loan out that money to business (due to already severe over production of almost everything), those money just went to other area like commodities and bonds


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 07, 2015, 06:36:48 AM
Well the idea behind QE is to print money to give to banks, the banks should then be loaning out that money to business etc and thus not only spur economic growth but also cause a bit of inflation to reach their 2-3% inflation goals. Eventually that money will hit the market and then a while down the road people will realize that monetary policy has made the money less valuable and THEN inflation hits. I honestly expect to see BIG changes in peoples (mainstream) attitude to fiat currencies by the end of 2016.

That's the plan, but now every major institution knows this and they will not loan out that money to business (due to already severe over production of almost everything), those money just went to other area like commodities and bonds

You're spot on.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 07, 2015, 07:14:24 AM
News 2/6/15

Ex-Credit Suisse CEO: Invest in Gold and Bitcoin Long-term, Not Fiat (http://cointelegraph.com/news/113441/ex-credit-suisse-ceo-invest-in-gold-and-bitcoin-long-term-not-fiat)

Quote
The only investment that demonstrably keeps its value over a long period is gold, and in future perhaps also bitcoins.

...they'll no longer be buying when rates sink, and no longer be selling when they rise. It simply costs too much in terms of capital... Therefore markets can tumble a lot faster than in the past...

Central banks can print money limitlessly and these days they are telling us that openly. It's therefore no longer recoverable.

--This is what I mean when I say there will be a gradual movement of smart money then mainstream money into bitcoin as more and more people realize that eventually their fiat will be worth nothing due to limitless printing by the central banks.

Recent numbers published by the US Bureau of Economic Analysis.
GDP growth for Q4 was reported as 2.6%: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
GDP deflator for Q4 all the sudden went from the usual 1.4% to -0.1% !!! Tricky bastards! : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-deflator
Quote
My analysis:
What does that mean? Real GDP growth for the US in Q4 was only 1.1%!!! which is an absolutely terrible growth rate. The government uses the GDP deflator to supposedly account for inflation/deflation in GDP numbers, but that also gives them a LOT of lead way to fudge the numbers however they want and thus they are reporting a much better (still mediocre though) GDP growth than actually occurred for Q4.



Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on February 07, 2015, 09:38:38 AM
Here's google translate of a Denmark bank introducing negative .5 deposit rates for some customers

"For the first time in the history of Denmark is it going to cost money to have a regular bank account in a bank.

Thus introduces FIH from next month minus interest on customers' bank accounts. This brings the bank's customers continue to fork out for funds deposited in an account at FIH.
The new system applies to the bank's day -to-day account, which is what you might call a regular salary account - minus interest rate of 0.5 per cent . shall enter into force on 9 March and will both apply to residential and business customers .
not surprisingly,
According to one expert , it is far from surprising that FIH introduces less interest .
- FIH is about to close their bank down , and by introducing less interest forcing some existing customers out . So if someone were to do it, it was them , said John North, director of Mybanker .
FIH justify the step with the bank pays money to funds deposited in the National Bank.
It happens after three hectic weeks in which National Bank has reduced the deposit rate four times - most recently yesterday afternoon , when it was lowered by a further 0.25 basis points to -0.75 percent .
- It is expensive for FIH , but you could say that it comes at an opportune time . But it is also a proof that it is bad business , customers are the acidic , says John Norden .
Calls for calm
Although FIH now has taken the historic step and introduced less interest , there are no indications according to John Norden that other banks will follow suit.
- We are in a very unusual situation with low interest rates , but I do not think it gets other banks to do the same. It is clear that there is a pain threshold , but it is difficult to say when it is reached, explains John parts."


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: aantonopoulis on February 07, 2015, 09:31:46 PM
Following :) 

Maybe central bankers are trying to tell us something..  time to get your value out of virtual fiat asap. 


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 07, 2015, 11:14:48 PM
Here's google translate of a Denmark bank introducing negative .5 deposit rates for some customers

"For the first time in the history of Denmark is it going to cost money to have a regular bank account in a bank.

Thus introduces FIH from next month minus interest on customers' bank accounts. This brings the bank's customers continue to fork out for funds deposited in an account at FIH.
The new system applies to the bank's day -to-day account, which is what you might call a regular salary account - minus interest rate of 0.5 per cent . shall enter into force on 9 March and will both apply to residential and business customers .
not surprisingly,
According to one expert , it is far from surprising that FIH introduces less interest .
- FIH is about to close their bank down , and by introducing less interest forcing some existing customers out . So if someone were to do it, it was them , said John North, director of Mybanker .
FIH justify the step with the bank pays money to funds deposited in the National Bank.
It happens after three hectic weeks in which National Bank has reduced the deposit rate four times - most recently yesterday afternoon , when it was lowered by a further 0.25 basis points to -0.75 percent .
- It is expensive for FIH , but you could say that it comes at an opportune time . But it is also a proof that it is bad business , customers are the acidic , says John Norden .
Calls for calm
Although FIH now has taken the historic step and introduced less interest , there are no indications according to John Norden that other banks will follow suit.
- We are in a very unusual situation with low interest rates , but I do not think it gets other banks to do the same. It is clear that there is a pain threshold , but it is difficult to say when it is reached, explains John parts."


"Low interest rates" is a clear understatement to "negative interest rates". And there are starting to be more and more cases of these negative interest rates, take the German banks for additional examples.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 08, 2015, 05:42:35 AM
News 2/7/15


Ukraine’s currency just collapsed 50 percent in two days (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/06/ukraines-currency-has-fallen-50-percent-in-two-days/)
Quote
Ukraine has no money and barely any economy. It's already talking to the IMF about a $15 billion bailout and what's euphemistically being called a debt "restructuring"—i.e., default—as its reserves have dwindled down to $6.42 billion, only enough to cover five weeks of imports.

The hyrvnia fell from 16.8 to 24.4 per dollar, and then again to 25.3 on Friday, on the news that the government wouldn't intervene it in anymore.

--Just goes to show how fast the "value" of fiat currencies can fall once people realize their true worth....zero.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: dunchy on February 08, 2015, 10:04:13 AM
Nice thread Lyth0s ! Please keep us posted when you have time...


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 10, 2015, 05:56:13 AM
News 2/9/15

Oil may drop by more than $30 a barrel from current levels (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/oil-may-drop-by-more-than-30-a-barrel-from-current-levels-says-citi-2015-02-09?dist=tcountdown)
Quote
In a note Monday, analysts at Citigroup raised the possibility that West Texas Intermediate oil prices may fall to as low as the $20 range. Prices on the New York Mercantile Exchange already suffered a loss of 46% last year.

But the recent rally looks more like a “head-fake than a sustainable turning point,” said Citi analysts, lead by Edward Morse.

The oil market should bottom sometime between the end of the first quarter and beginning of the second quarter, with oversupply being a key factor, Citi analysts said.
--Not that Citi ever really knows what they are talking about....but oil was in the $30's range in 2003 prior to the beginning of the oil bubble that burst in 2008 and may still be "bursting".


Greenspan on Greece: Exit from the euro is ‘just a matter of time’
(http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greenspan-on-greece-exit-from-euro-is-just-a-matter-of-time-2015-02-09?dist=tcountdown)
Quote
I don’t think it will be resolved without Greece leaving the eurozone...

A defiant Tsipras told lawmakers Sunday that he would be unwinding several austerity measures that were conditions of its international bailout. He said he’d be raising minimum wage, dropping a property tax, and a few other goodies Europe’s leaders are sure to be flipping out over right now

The country’s €240 billion (roughly $272 billion) rescue runs out at the end of the month, and Greece’s government has warned that the money could run out in a few weeks. Analysts at Bank of America Merrill Lynch said in a note Monday that the country probably can get through International Monetary Fund payments in March, but not likely past May.

--Tsipras is giving a much F* you to Germany by essentially stating that it is going to increase spending in certain sectors. Germany and the ECB won't give further aid. Predicting the conclusion of all this mess is tough. On one side if Greece leaves the Euro other countries that are in debt may follow suit and we could have a complete collapse of the European Union. On the other hand greece only makes up a very small part of the Euro's economy (somewhere around 2%) which may lead one to believe that them leaving the EU would have a very small effect.

I personally think if Greece leaves the EU 1-2 years down the road more countries will follow suit eventually just leaving behind Germany :P


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on February 12, 2015, 01:00:19 PM
Sweden joins the NIRP brigade

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-12/sweden-central-joins-nirp-club-lowers-interest-rate-01-launches-qe


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: aantonopoulis on February 12, 2015, 02:12:38 PM
Negative interest rates are pretty cool and all.  However I want to see even more fiat accounting innovation. 

We aren't using the whole complex plane here people!  Imaginary interest rates are the next big thing, you heard it here first . 


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 13, 2015, 04:37:13 AM
Sweden joins the NIRP brigade

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-12/sweden-central-joins-nirp-club-lowers-interest-rate-01-launches-qe

Good Find! I think Norway, Japan or the USA is next.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 13, 2015, 04:38:52 AM
News 2/12/15

China to state companies: No profit growth, no pay raise (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-to-state-companies-no-profit-growth-no-pay-raise-2015-02-12)

Quote
SASAC notified centrally administered SOEs on Feb. 9 that they “must not increase the total amount of salaries” if their profit target this year is lower than last year’s profits

It's all about profit and shareholders nowadays, even in these chinese government sponsored companies, which should really be more worried about at least creating products that industries need that potentially could not be handled by the private sector on its own...

One big fear with a strong dollar: a stock market bubble (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/one-big-fear-with-a-strong-dollar-a-stock-market-bubble-2015-02-12)

Quote
“We are already at the level where stocks are simply expensive. If markets rise from this level significantly due to foreign demand or lack of alternatives - this will form a bubble,” Smith said.

Article talks about already having 4% growth this year, compared to a total of about 9% stock market growth last year. Anyone know any stats about stock price acceleration before a bubble bursts? I assume that the burst occurs just as the acceleration (instantaneous rate of change of price) occurs, but can anyone provide some numbers on this? It's been a while since I've busted out any calculus.

Retail sales slump again, as Americans pocket savings at pump (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/retail-sales-slump-again-as-americans-pocket-savings-at-pump-2015-02-12)

Quote
Yet retail sales excluding gas were still flat compared to December, a sign that Americans aren’t using their fuel bonanza to spend more on other goods and services. Instead they are saving more.

Saving more? Or they owe it to their debtors?



Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on February 13, 2015, 06:46:59 AM
Negative interest rates are pretty cool and all.  However I want to see even more fiat accounting innovation. 

We aren't using the whole complex plane here people!  Imaginary interest rates are the next big thing, you heard it here first . 

Next step will be directly confiscating money from accounts: -10% interest means your money at banks get a hair cut by 10%

Obviously, if they print more money, there will be more deflation (more money means more debt, thus more austerity  and less spending), a low inflation rate will make banks keep printing until they bought every assets out there


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 14, 2015, 06:47:32 AM
Negative interest rates are pretty cool and all.  However I want to see even more fiat accounting innovation. 

We aren't using the whole complex plane here people!  Imaginary interest rates are the next big thing, you heard it here first . 

Next step will be directly confiscating money from accounts: -10% interest means your money at banks get a hair cut by 10%

Obviously, if they print more money, there will be more deflation (more money means more debt, thus more austerity  and less spending), a low inflation rate will make banks keep printing until they bought every assets out there

How do you figure if more money is printed that leads to deflation?


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on February 14, 2015, 10:39:53 AM
Negative interest rates are pretty cool and all.  However I want to see even more fiat accounting innovation.  

We aren't using the whole complex plane here people!  Imaginary interest rates are the next big thing, you heard it here first .  

Next step will be directly confiscating money from accounts: -10% interest means your money at banks get a hair cut by 10%

Obviously, if they print more money, there will be more deflation (more money means more debt, thus more austerity  and less spending), a low inflation rate will make banks keep printing until they bought every assets out there

How do you figure if more money is printed that leads to deflation?

FED print 100 dollar, and bought 100 dollar worth of government bonds, and then government have 100 dollar to spend. However, they must make back that 100 dollar plus interest, means the total money in the society will lose $2 when they return that 102 dollar to central bank. So, for each 100 dollar FED print and retrieve, the society as a whole will lose 2 dollar, a temporary stimulation is followed by a even deeper deflation due to less money to spend in future

Even there is no interest charged, this temporary stimulation will increase the incoming and spending of the society for a while, but when it stopped, people are staying at a much higher living cost of everything, with same amount of money in society, thus quickly fall back into recession

The only way out of this deflation spiral is to expand the debt forever exponentially, but then the ballooning interest cost will cut more and more into the income and eventually income will start to shrink no matter how much more debt is raised








Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 17, 2015, 05:02:57 AM
Negative interest rates are pretty cool and all.  However I want to see even more fiat accounting innovation.  

We aren't using the whole complex plane here people!  Imaginary interest rates are the next big thing, you heard it here first .  

Next step will be directly confiscating money from accounts: -10% interest means your money at banks get a hair cut by 10%

Obviously, if they print more money, there will be more deflation (more money means more debt, thus more austerity  and less spending), a low inflation rate will make banks keep printing until they bought every assets out there

How do you figure if more money is printed that leads to deflation?

FED print 100 dollar, and bought 100 dollar worth of government bonds, and then government have 100 dollar to spend. However, they must make back that 100 dollar plus interest, means the total money in the society will lose $2 when they return that 102 dollar to central bank. So, for each 100 dollar FED print and retrieve, the society as a whole will lose 2 dollar, a temporary stimulation is followed by a even deeper deflation due to less money to spend in future

Even there is no interest charged, this temporary stimulation will increase the incoming and spending of the society for a while, but when it stopped, people are staying at a much higher living cost of everything, with same amount of money in society, thus quickly fall back into recession

The only way out of this deflation spiral is to expand the debt forever exponentially, but then the ballooning interest cost will cut more and more into the income and eventually income will start to shrink no matter how much more debt is raised


I don't think I agree with this. If the $100 is printed and we now owe $102 to the fed, then we have even more money printed to pay our debts back and this cycle repeats. Yes debt forever increases (and at a faster rate than the money supply), but all of this printing leads to inflation (dollar becomes cheaper and it takes more of them to buy the same good)...It's only if we stop printing that we would start to have deflation and economic collapse.

Please tell me if I'm wrong or missing something.

Found a quote from that article that i like
Quote
Innovators are eager to try new ideas, to the point where their venturesomeness almost becomes an obsession. Innovators’ interest in new ideas leads them out of a local circle of peers and into social relationships more cosmopolite than normal.  Usually, innovators have substantial financial resources, and the ability to understand and apply complex technical knowledge.  While others may consider the innovator to be rash or daring, it is the hazardous risk-taking that is of salient value to this type of individual.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 18, 2015, 04:38:32 AM
News 2/17/15


The banking industry’s biggest cyber fears (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-financial-industrys-biggest-cyber-fears-2014-09-10?page=1)

Quote
Cybercriminals have stolen up to $1 billion since late 2013 from banks across 30 countries, including the U.S., Russia, Europe and China, a computer security company says in the latest report to draw a red circle around the financial sector as a vulnerable target for hackers.

The majority of brokerages (88%) and financial advisers (74%) said they “have experienced cyberattacks directly or through one or more of their vendors.” But only a small portion of the more than 100 firms surveyed — 15% of broker dealers and 9% of advisers — guarantee they’ll reimburse clients for losses related to a cyberattack, the Securities and Exchange Commission found.

--88% of brokerages have been victim of cyberattacks, only 15% admitted that they will guarantee funds lost to attacks
--74% of financial advisers have experienced attacks. 9% gaurantee funds.
Peachy

Greece intends to ask for extension Wednesday, says official (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greece-intends-to-ask-for-extension-wednesday-says-official-2015-02-17)
Quote
Greece will seek an extension to its loan agreement from the rest of the eurozone Wednesday, an official with knowledge of the situation said...
The Greek government has so far insisted that budget cuts and economic overhauls mandated by the current rescue deal are hurting its economy and society and that the currency union’s finance ministers haven’t offered sufficient leeway on implementing those measures.
--Sounds like a rumor to me. I'm not 100% convinced that all the sudden Tsipras will reconsider the extension without a restructuring of their debt.


7 charts that suggest the rising stock market may be wrong (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-charts-that-warn-the-stock-market-may-be-wrong-2015-02-17)

Quote
But as the above chart, joined by the following charts, shows, investors often ignore disappointing economic information as a bull market progresses, just as they did before the previous two recessions. And when market prices just start building rapidly on themselves, without a strong economic platform or continued stimulus from the Federal Reserve, the market bubble that is created should eventually pop

--Retail sales are down, many commodities are down, corporate profits are down (post-tax), hourly wages for production workers are down, personal consumption expenditures (leaving out food and gas) are down which may or may not be signalling more deflation (which is terrible in fiat based currencies and leads to bankruptcy)


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: rondalark on February 18, 2015, 11:13:28 AM
News 2/17/15


The banking industry’s biggest cyber fears (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-financial-industrys-biggest-cyber-fears-2014-09-10?page=1)

Quote
Cybercriminals have stolen up to $1 billion since late 2013 from banks across 30 countries, including the U.S., Russia, Europe and China, a computer security company says in the latest report to draw a red circle around the financial sector as a vulnerable target for hackers.

The majority of brokerages (88%) and financial advisers (74%) said they “have experienced cyberattacks directly or through one or more of their vendors.” But only a small portion of the more than 100 firms surveyed — 15% of broker dealers and 9% of advisers — guarantee they’ll reimburse clients for losses related to a cyberattack, the Securities and Exchange Commission found.

--88% of brokerages have been victim of cyberattacks, only 15% admitted that they will guarantee funds lost to attacks
--74% of financial advisers have experienced attacks. 9% gaurantee funds.
Peachy

Greece intends to ask for extension Wednesday, says official (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greece-intends-to-ask-for-extension-wednesday-says-official-2015-02-17)
Quote
Greece will seek an extension to its loan agreement from the rest of the eurozone Wednesday, an official with knowledge of the situation said...
The Greek government has so far insisted that budget cuts and economic overhauls mandated by the current rescue deal are hurting its economy and society and that the currency union’s finance ministers haven’t offered sufficient leeway on implementing those measures.
--Sounds like a rumor to me. I'm not 100% convinced that all the sudden Tsipras will reconsider the extension without a restructuring of their debt.


7 charts that suggest the rising stock market may be wrong (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-charts-that-warn-the-stock-market-may-be-wrong-2015-02-17)

Quote
But as the above chart, joined by the following charts, shows, investors often ignore disappointing economic information as a bull market progresses, just as they did before the previous two recessions. And when market prices just start building rapidly on themselves, without a strong economic platform or continued stimulus from the Federal Reserve, the market bubble that is created should eventually pop

--Retail sales are down, many commodities are down, corporate profits are down (post-tax), hourly wages for production workers are down, personal consumption expenditures (leaving out food and gas) are down which may or may not be signalling more deflation (which is terrible in fiat based currencies and leads to bankruptcy)

nice thread. keep up the good work! cant wait for todays news post


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: aantonopoulis on February 20, 2015, 11:27:41 PM
News 2/17/15
Quote
Cybercriminals have stolen up to $1 billion since late 2013 from banks across 30 countries, including the U.S., Russia, Europe and China, a computer security company says in the latest report to draw a red circle around the financial sector as a vulnerable target for hackers.

The majority of brokerages (88%) and financial advisers (74%) said they “have experienced cyberattacks directly or through one or more of their vendors.” But only a small portion of the more than 100 firms surveyed — 15% of broker dealers and 9% of advisers — guarantee they’ll reimburse clients for losses related to a cyberattack, the Securities and Exchange Commission found.

Wow, it's nice to hear some good news for a change.  Keep up the good work boys!


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 24, 2015, 04:37:30 AM
News 2/23/15

10 reasons U.S. stocks may see a 10%-20% correction by July (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-reasons-us-stocks-may-see-a-10-20-correction-by-july-2015-02-23)

Quote
1. Business cycle: The current business cycle is 67-month-old, prompting worries that it is soon to expire and lead to a recession. But given that the U.S. economy is still performing at below potential and the typical signs of imbalances aren't apparent, the current cycle will remain intact for now.

2. Strong U.S. dollar: A firm dollar hurts U.S. exports and weakens American products’ competitiveness but it alone won't trigger a recession or a bear market.

3. The Federal Reserve: The Fed turning hawkish is a worry but given the current composition of the Fed, the possibility of an ill-timed interest rate hike is limited.

4. Weak Oil: Lower oil prices is more of a boon than a bane as less money spent on gas and fuel will mean more cash for consumers and businesses.

5. Earnings: “This is a serious problem,” said Kostohryz. The S&P 500 earnings per share risk is flat to negative in 2015 and PE ratios are peaking, limiting the market’s upside.

6. Valuation: Although some experts believe the market is overvalued based on the “Shiller PE10,” the indicator isn't foolproof. “PE ratios are at levels that have historically served as a peak in valuations, but aren't yet at levels that can be considered to constitute a ‘bubble.’”

7. Greece: Investors are underestimating the possibility of a negative outcome in Greece’s debt crisis. But the Eurozone is sufficiently prepared to deal with any fallouts.

8. Ukraine: The West and Russia won't go to war over Ukraine. The situation in the Eastern European country may deteriorate in the coming months but it will have limited impact on U.S. markets.

9. China: The Asian powerhouse is slowing but the Chinese government is expected to deploy aggressive fiscal and monetary measures to prevent a “hard-landing.”

10. Geopolitical instability: Oil-dependent regimes such as Venezuela are likely to face greater instability while rising Muslim extremism in the Middle East could lead to political and social upheaval in the region.

Is OPEC ready to announce an output cut? (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-opec-ready-to-announce-an-output-cut-2015-02-23)
Quote
So far, “crude-oil supplies remain strong, and OPEC is showing no signs of cutting in the immediate future,” said Kevin Kerr, president of Kerr Trading International. “That is all putting pressure on [WTI] crude around the $50 mark.”
--In short, doubtful.

1 in 3 Americans on verge of financial ruin (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-in-3-americans-on-verge-of-financial-ruin-2015-02-23)

Quote
According to a survey released Monday by Bankrate.com of more than 1,000 adults, 37% of Americans have credit card debt that equals or exceeds their emergency savings.

4 things to know as the Nasdaq nears 5,000 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/4-things-to-know-as-the-nasdaq-nears-5000-2015-02-23)
Quote
The Nasdaq only crossed the 5,000 mark once before. This was back on March 9, 2000, just before the collapse of the so called dot-com bubble.

With the burst of the bubble, the Nasdaq went on to fall 78% to a then-six-year low of 1,114.11 on October 9, 2002. The ensuing bull run elevated the index back as high as 2,859.12 on Halloween 2007. That marked a 157% gain from the October 2002 low, but still 43.37% off the 2000 record close. But the financial crisis soon halted the advance.
--Breaks 5,000->Crash->2,800->crash->5,000->?

--Also for the S&P 500...  what do you think comes next?
https://i.imgur.com/fvfy6d1.png



Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: Wilford01Brennan on February 24, 2015, 10:19:19 AM
News 2/23/15

10 reasons U.S. stocks may see a 10%-20% correction by July (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-reasons-us-stocks-may-see-a-10-20-correction-by-july-2015-02-23)

Quote
1. Business cycle: The current business cycle is 67-month-old, prompting worries that it is soon to expire and lead to a recession. But given that the U.S. economy is still performing at below potential and the typical signs of imbalances aren't apparent, the current cycle will remain intact for now.

2. Strong U.S. dollar: A firm dollar hurts U.S. exports and weakens American products’ competitiveness but it alone won't trigger a recession or a bear market.

3. The Federal Reserve: The Fed turning hawkish is a worry but given the current composition of the Fed, the possibility of an ill-timed interest rate hike is limited.

4. Weak Oil: Lower oil prices is more of a boon than a bane as less money spent on gas and fuel will mean more cash for consumers and businesses.

5. Earnings: “This is a serious problem,” said Kostohryz. The S&P 500 earnings per share risk is flat to negative in 2015 and PE ratios are peaking, limiting the market’s upside.

6. Valuation: Although some experts believe the market is overvalued based on the “Shiller PE10,” the indicator isn't foolproof. “PE ratios are at levels that have historically served as a peak in valuations, but aren't yet at levels that can be considered to constitute a ‘bubble.’”

7. Greece: Investors are underestimating the possibility of a negative outcome in Greece’s debt crisis. But the Eurozone is sufficiently prepared to deal with any fallouts.

8. Ukraine: The West and Russia won't go to war over Ukraine. The situation in the Eastern European country may deteriorate in the coming months but it will have limited impact on U.S. markets.

9. China: The Asian powerhouse is slowing but the Chinese government is expected to deploy aggressive fiscal and monetary measures to prevent a “hard-landing.”

10. Geopolitical instability: Oil-dependent regimes such as Venezuela are likely to face greater instability while rising Muslim extremism in the Middle East could lead to political and social upheaval in the region.

Is OPEC ready to announce an output cut? (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-opec-ready-to-announce-an-output-cut-2015-02-23)
Quote
So far, “crude-oil supplies remain strong, and OPEC is showing no signs of cutting in the immediate future,” said Kevin Kerr, president of Kerr Trading International. “That is all putting pressure on [WTI] crude around the $50 mark.”
--In short, doubtful.

1 in 3 Americans on verge of financial ruin (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-in-3-americans-on-verge-of-financial-ruin-2015-02-23)

Quote
According to a survey released Monday by Bankrate.com of more than 1,000 adults, 37% of Americans have credit card debt that equals or exceeds their emergency savings.

4 things to know as the Nasdaq nears 5,000 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/4-things-to-know-as-the-nasdaq-nears-5000-2015-02-23)
Quote
The Nasdaq only crossed the 5,000 mark once before. This was back on March 9, 2000, just before the collapse of the so called dot-com bubble.

With the burst of the bubble, the Nasdaq went on to fall 78% to a then-six-year low of 1,114.11 on October 9, 2002. The ensuing bull run elevated the index back as high as 2,859.12 on Halloween 2007. That marked a 157% gain from the October 2002 low, but still 43.37% off the 2000 record close. But the financial crisis soon halted the advance.
--Breaks 5,000->Crash->2,800->crash->5,000->?

--Also for the S&P 500...  what do you think comes next?
https://i.imgur.com/fvfy6d1.png



The current scenario indicates not only a correction but a minor or major crash in near future. The stock market is sorely hyped. That much talked about U.S. recovery may have helped make Wall Street, but it couldn’t help Main Street get wealthier. The U.S. economy isn’t as strong as it seems. And as we already have discussed here that the global economy is a mess. I could see strong chances of economic collapse (http://www.profitconfidential.com/economic-analysis/economic-collapse-2015/) in 2015.

I believe that U.S. economy is likely to suffer a major crash by early 2015 and another between late 2017.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 25, 2015, 03:20:51 AM
Good article find Wildford. Here it is if anyone else wants to read it: http://www.profitconfidential.com/economic-analysis/economic-collapse-2015/

It is a good quick read on the disconnect between the US stock market and the US economic fundamentals.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 27, 2015, 01:44:38 AM
News 2/26/15

Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?link=MW_popular)

Quote
It’s time to start the countdown to the crash of 2016. No, this is not a prediction of a minor correction. Plan on a 50% crash.
--Lots of people are putting their name out there on this 2015-2016 market crash, many more than prior to the 2008 crash. Only time will tell if they are correct.

4 things to watch for in Warren Buffett’s 50th annual letter (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/4-things-to-watch-for-in-warren-buffetts-50th-annual-letter-2015-02-26)

Quote
Cash hoard

Berkshire Hathaway is flush with cash, sitting on $62.4 billion as of Sept. 30.
--I've found it interesting that in the past 6 months many billionaires and large hedge funds are sitting on way more cash than they usually do. The main question here would be why sit on so much cash when the market is currently putting out excellent annual returns?

--The Great Depression created MANY new millionaires from people buying up large sums of stocks at dirt cheap prices after the stock market collapse occurred. I think this tactic is what these billionaires are waiting for.....crash->buy->profit.

--Keep your cash handy! :P


Inflation trend turns negative for first time since 2009 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/consumer-inflation-trend-turns-negative-for-first-time-since-2009-2015-02-26)

Quote
In January, the consumer price index sank by a seasonally adjusted 0.7%, the biggest one-month drop since the end of 2008, the Labor Department reported Thursday.
--I don't need to tell you all what happens when deflation occurs in a debt based monetary system...


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on February 27, 2015, 04:01:15 PM

I don't think I agree with this. If the $100 is printed and we now owe $102 to the fed, then we have even more money printed to pay our debts back and this cycle repeats. Yes debt forever increases (and at a faster rate than the money supply), but all of this printing leads to inflation (dollar becomes cheaper and it takes more of them to buy the same good)...It's only if we stop printing that we would start to have deflation and economic collapse.

Please tell me if I'm wrong or missing something.


Printing does not necessary leads to inflation, since the inflation indicator does not include capital goods, more money will just raise the asset price and bond price. And now more money means more debt, means more of the income will be used to pay the debt, and less money will be used to pay the daily consumption, so there will be deflation even the money printing is accelerating

Of course when banks receive the interest, they will spend, which put those interest money back into circulation, but their spending is very limited and could not create much jobb


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: OROBTC on February 28, 2015, 04:31:01 AM
...

Lyth0s

I join the parade in cheering you on: posting economic stories.  I have no quibble with the ones you have chosen.

Our country's financial problems are epic.  How it will all turn I have no idea.  But I doubt that it will be pretty, I suspect the opposite.

After one is convinced that we really DO have severe problems, the next item on the menu is what do each of us (as individuals) do to protect our savings and our families?

*   *   *

Here are two well-known websites that provide "News of the Day":

-- zerohedge.com (http://zerohedge.com), very bearish and contrarian, fair number of trolls

-- marketwatch.com (http://marketwatch.com), very conventional, but provides a wide range of stories

There are a wide range of financial websites covering almost every subject.  Perhaps the main problem is finding one or more that have sufficient information and that you can trust.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 28, 2015, 05:07:34 AM

I don't think I agree with this. If the $100 is printed and we now owe $102 to the fed, then we have even more money printed to pay our debts back and this cycle repeats. Yes debt forever increases (and at a faster rate than the money supply), but all of this printing leads to inflation (dollar becomes cheaper and it takes more of them to buy the same good)...It's only if we stop printing that we would start to have deflation and economic collapse.

Please tell me if I'm wrong or missing something.


Printing does not necessary leads to inflation, since the inflation indicator does not include capital goods, more money will just raise the asset price and bond price. And now more money means more debt, means more of the income will be used to pay the debt, and less money will be used to pay the daily consumption, so there will be deflation even the money printing is accelerating

Of course when banks receive the interest, they will spend, which put those interest money back into circulation, but their spending is very limited and could not create much jobb

I'm starting to see your point. But if asset prices rise, is that not inflation as seen by the consumer? Is it possible for the government to be undergoing deflation in paying the interest while at the same time the rest of the consumer market sees inflation of prices?


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on February 28, 2015, 08:49:22 AM
News 2/27/15


There is really only two things I want to post today.

Greece runs out of funding options despite euro zone reprieve (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/27/us-eurozone-greece-funding-idUSKBN0LV1OK20150227)
Quote
Shut out of debt markets and faced with a steep fall in tax revenues, Athens is expected to run out of cash by the middle or end of March. Its finance minister has warned that Greece will struggle to repay creditors starting with a 1.5 billion euro IMF loan repayment due in March.

--Greece's emergency funds are only 1 billion in total, not even enough to pay the IMF back. Remember, Remember....The month of March? --Maybe.


The Euro is is getting closer to parity with the USD. Take a look at that nose dive on the 26th.

https://www.google.com/finance?q=EURUSD&ei=OX_xVJChD6ahigK55oGgCQ

If you live in Greece, any country that uses the Euro or have some family out there, tell them to get some bitcoins :P


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: Realpra on February 28, 2015, 10:25:35 AM
Don't believe any news about Greece. That theater could continue forever - until the EU bankrupts itself constantly bailing out a corrupt and inefficient government/banking system.

When money can be printed how do you run out? You DON'T you make headlines and politics, but at the end of the day you - the elite - get your house and your dinner for free.

It doesn't end until people say stop and choose a medium that cannot be faked - like Bitcoin.

(Gold also cannot be faked, but using it is just as cumbersome and expensive as our current structure of propping up the elites - at least the elite get something out of fiat)


In the near future Bitcoin will start to swallow up all this fiat, the more the fiat price lowers the faster it will go. Bitcoin is like a financial black hole, it is yet small - but just wait.
At first people will go to Bitcoin because of the price increases, later they will come because it is stable and fiat is collapsing.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 01, 2015, 05:08:38 AM
Don't believe any news about Greece. That theater could continue forever - until the EU bankrupts itself constantly bailing out a corrupt and inefficient government/banking system.

When money can be printed how do you run out? You DON'T you make headlines and politics, but at the end of the day you - the elite - get your house and your dinner for free.

It doesn't end until people say stop and choose a medium that cannot be faked - like Bitcoin.

(Gold also cannot be faked, but using it is just as cumbersome and expensive as our current structure of propping up the elites - at least the elite get something out of fiat)


In the near future Bitcoin will start to swallow up all this fiat, the more the fiat price lowers the faster it will go. Bitcoin is like a financial black hole, it is yet small - but just wait.
At first people will go to Bitcoin because of the price increases, later they will come because it is stable and fiat is collapsing.

If Greece were able to print their own Euro I would agree with you that they would never run out of fiat. But since they are reliant on the ECB, if the ECB were to cut them off then Greece would have to go back to printing its own money, which would then in turn make people lose a lot of confidence in the Euro (since any bankrupt country could then follow suit and leave the Euro).

As far as the ECB or its supported countries go your 100% correct that they will never run out of Euro.

Quote
In the near future Bitcoin will start to swallow up all this fiat, the more the fiat price lowers the faster it will go. Bitcoin is like a financial black hole, it is yet small - but just wait.
At first people will go to Bitcoin because of the price increases, later they will come because it is stable and fiat is collapsing.
--I couldn't have said it better myself.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 04, 2015, 06:43:50 AM
News 3/3/15

Fraud Comes to Apple Pay (http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/03/fraud-comes-to-apple-pay/)
Quote
Abraham said it’s not “an anomaly” to see fraud accounting for about 6% of Apple Pay transactions, compared to about 0.1% of transactions using a plastic card to swipe

--6% fraud rate is pretty high for something that is supposed to decrease fraud. Another area where bitcoin shines.

India Central Bank Cuts Interest Rate "Pre-Emptively" For Second Time In 2 Months (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-03/rbi-slashes-policy-rate-anticipatory-move)
Quote
In a surprise move, the RBI just cut its main interest rates for the second time in two months, taking it from 6.75% to 6.50%, in what the central bank calls a “pre-emptive” policy move, but what is in reality merely a confirmation that so far in 2015 at least 20 central banks have lowered their interest rate.

--6.5% is still high (at least by USA standards), but still shows the continued downtrend of interest rates in the world economy



Buffett On Europe: Germany Must Stop Greek Dog Peeing On Its Carpet (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-03/buffett-europe-germany-must-stop-greek-dog-peeing-its-carpet)
Quote
Buffett compares Greece to a "dog peeing on the carpet" of Europe, suggesting Germany stop "rewarding behavior you want to get rid of."

--Buffet saying that Greece is like a dog peeing on Germany's carpet? The hell? He states he is in favor of Greece leaving the Euro.
--Also sounds like Buffet is in favor of the ECB breaking up due to different fiscial policies.


The deflation bogeyman
(http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-deflation-bogeyman-2015-03-02)
Quote
None of this might matter were it not for the fact that extremely low interest rates have fueled increased risk-taking by borrowers and yield-hungry lenders. The result has been a massive mispricing of financial assets. And that has created a growing risk of serious adverse effects on the real economy when monetary policy normalizes and asset prices correct.
--Massive mispricing of financial assets, enough said.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on March 04, 2015, 07:23:24 AM
Posted this on another Spec thread but it is more fitting here.

Many messy implications.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/03/the-u-s-government-should-pay-anonymous-in-bitcoin-to-fight-isis/


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 04, 2015, 08:16:29 PM
Posted this on another Spec thread but it is more fitting here.

Many messy implications.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/03/the-u-s-government-should-pay-anonymous-in-bitcoin-to-fight-isis/

The government wouldn't out source their hacking to make rich groups of people that could easily turn against the US in the near future. It is an interesting idea but most likely they would just hire from the inside so no need for internal privacy of the agent with government since they would be acting as an employee


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 10, 2015, 05:25:43 AM
News 3/9/15


S&P 500 can’t fight the market’s selloff forever (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-500-cant-fight-the-markets-selloff-forever-2015-03-09?dist=tcountdown)


Quote
More and more stocks no longer are in uptrends, even as the S&P 500 manages to maintain its uptrend,” said Carter Braxton Worth, chief market technician at Sterne Agee. “Unsustainable divergence, we’d say.”

http://ei.marketwatch.com//Multimedia/2015/03/09/Photos/ZH/MW-DH293_Market_20150309121018_ZH.jpg?uuid=d2e662fc-c676-11e4-8f80-95657135611e

--Although there are plenty of other stocks within the S&P500 and oil hasn't done that well this quarter the fact that the NYSE composite is also following the general downtrend while the SP500 is diverging should mean something...

China inflation rises, but deflation fears remain (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-inflation-rises-but-deflation-fears-remain-2015-03-10?dist=tcountdown)
Quote
China's economy grew 7.4% last year, its worst showing in 24 years. The government has set an even lower target for this year of about 7% growth.

The central bank took advantage of mild inflation and cut benchmark interest rates, effective March 1, to help bolster economic growth. It was the second rate cut in a little over three months.

--More interest rates cuts. Declining growth in china.




Home-price expectations are cooling, survey finds
(http://www.marketwatch.com/story/home-price-expectations-are-cooling-survey-finds-2015-03-09?dist=tcountdown)

Quote
Home-price growth has slowed, according to recent data. The year-over-year growth rate for the S&P/Case-Shiller 20-city composite slowed to 4.5% in the final month of last year, compared with 13.4% growth in December 2013.
--I would actually be in favor of housing prices to come down due to a higher interest rate (if that will ever happen) and a correction in housing prices. It's about time for me to buy some new property :P


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 11, 2015, 05:56:35 AM
News 3/10/15



S&P 500 posts worst day in two months on rate worries (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/10/us-markets-stocks-idUSKBN0M612A20150310)

Quote

(Reuters) - U.S. stocks dropped on Tuesday, giving the S&P 500 its biggest decline in two months, on increasing views the Federal Reserve may raise rates as soon as June.

The Dow and S&P 500 ended in negative territory for the year, with the S&P 500 off 3.5 percent from its March 2 record closing high.

Dow suffers biggest point drop in 5 months
(http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stocks-futures-drop-as-dollar-surges-apple-in-focus-2015-03-10?dist=tcountdown)

Quote
The Dow Jones Industrial Average suffered its worst one-day point drop in five months as investors began pricing in a rate hike by the Federal Reserve by the middle of the year, while other central banks are embarking on a quantitative easing path.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 18, 2015, 11:07:12 PM
News 3/18/15


Fed takes step to rate hike but scales back intended pace (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-takes-step-to-rate-hike-but-scales-back-intended-pace-2015-03-18)


Quote
n a unanimous vote, the Fed as expected dropped its pledge to remain “patient” about raising rates in a statement released after a two-day meeting. And 15 of the bank’s top 17 officials think the Fed will raise rates sometime this year. See text of statement.

Still, the Fed cautioned that it will wait to raise rates until it has “seen further improvement in the labor market and is reasonably confident that inflation will move back to its 2% objective over the medium term.”

--It's getting to the point where the supposed debate about raising the rates is just as silly as discussing whether or not we should increase our debt ceiling. It will never happen and if it does we will have a major economic correction across almost all asset classes.



Yellen Admits "Market Valuations Are On The High Side", Adds "No Comment" On Biotech, Social Media Stocks (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-18/yellen-admits-market-valuations-are-high-side-adds-no-comment-biotech-social-media-s)

Quote
With a firm "no comment" Janet Yellen shied away from burstng the bubble in "extremely stretched" Biotech and Social Media stocks, but was forced to admit that "overall measures of equity valluations are on the high side." Then, rather oddly, she notes that The Fed sees unusually low spreads in corporate bond markets... which is odd since they have actually widened dramatically in the last year or so, perhaps signalling just how "high" valuations are in stocks...

Yellen "no comment" on Biotechs... but "market valuations on the high side."
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/03/20150319_HY_0.jpg
--Yellen says that the bubble "threats are moderate", which really means that they are huge and she is going to downplay the threats in order to not cause a financial panic.


Greek Bank Deposit Outflows Spike As Capital Controls Concern Spreads (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-18/greek-bank-deposit-outflows-spike-liquidity-fear-spreads)

Quote
With Greek bank bonds collapsing, stocks near record lows, Greek default risk at post-crisis record highs, and Greek government bond yields spiking, it has been surprisng that we have not seen the ATM lines and generalized 'panic' of a population in fear of being "Cyprus'd." Well, now as ekathimerini reports, that appears to escalating and rapidly as credit sector officials estimated that the flight of deposits yesterday alone amounted to 350-400 million euros, which was some five times higher than the daily average in previous days.

As ekathimerini reports, Greek banks are suffering from fresh turbulence due to the tension and the apparent collision course between Athens and its creditors. Bank stocks gave up more than 8 percent of their value on Wednesday, while the outflow of deposits was far greater than on previous days.




Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 24, 2015, 03:47:23 AM
News 3/23/15

Fighting the "War on Terror " by Banning Cash [In France] (http://mises.org/blog/fighting-war-terror-banning-cash)

Quote
... France has taken the first step.  It seems the terrorists involved partially financed these attacks by cash, as well as by consumer loans and the sale of counterfeit goods.
French Finance Minister Michel Sapin brazenly stated  that it was necessary to "fight against the use of cash and anonymity in the French economy."  He then announced extreme and despotic measures to further restrict the use of cash by French residents and to spy on and pry into their financial affairs.

These measures, which  will be implemented in September 2015, include prohibiting  French residents from making cash payments of more than 1,000 euros, down from the current limit of  3,000 euros.

--Further fiat restrictions and they will only help hinder the unbanked even more. Hopefully the working poor in France aren't as reliant on check cashing services to convert their paychecks into cash to then pay their bills as much as it occurs in the US.

Goldman Sachs says we aren't in a bubble... yet (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/goldman-sachs-says-we-arent-in-a-bubble-yet-2015-03-23)
Quote
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Don’t fret. Stocks aren’t overheating. That is the message Goldman Sachs chief global strategist Peter Oppenheimer, offered up on CNBC on Monday.

The Goldman strategist included the key term “yet” in his comments about the growing fear in the market that stock’s are getting too rich.

--They are definitely in the money making business, but also they are not the best people to be trusting when it comes to bubbles and crashes.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: OROBTC on March 24, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
...

France banning cash in large transactions...  If you are French, you have a low limit (1000 euros), but if you are a visitor from Pakistan, Yemen or Algeria (or any other tourist) the limit is 10,000 euros. 

Which of course makes zero sense.  Unless you need to make it easy for Islamic Extremist Terrorists to wreak havoc there...

Lyth0s, my guess is indeed it will be the poor and unbanked who will be hurt the most.  

But, such restrictions on cash might be very good for Bitcoin.  And gold.  As confidence evaporates (which I imagine it will happen in due course), BTC and Au are two of the best assets to own.

*   *   *

As the ZeroHedgers say, it is probably best to "take the other side" of any speculation that Goldman Sachs 666 advises to its muppets...


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 25, 2015, 02:15:40 AM
News 3/24/15


Feds Urge Banks to Call Cops on Customers Who Withdraw $5,000 or More (http://www.infowars.com/feds-urge-banks-to-call-cops-on-customers-who-withdraw-5000-or-more/)
Quote


But as investor and financial blogger Simon Black points out, last week, “A senior official from the Justice Department spoke to a group of bankers about the need for them to rat out their customers to the police.”

Assistant attorney general Leslie Caldwell gave a speech in which he urged banks to “alert law enforcement authorities about the problem” so that police can “seize the funds” or at least “initiate an investigation”.

As Black highlights, according to the handbook for the Federal Financial Institution Examination Council, such suspicious activity includes, “Transactions conducted or attempted by, at, or through the bank (or an affiliate) and aggregating $5,000 or more…”

--"War on cash intensifies"



Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: johnyj on March 25, 2015, 02:25:24 AM
News 3/24/15


Feds Urge Banks to Call Cops on Customers Who Withdraw $5,000 or More (http://www.infowars.com/feds-urge-banks-to-call-cops-on-customers-who-withdraw-5000-or-more/)
Quote


But as investor and financial blogger Simon Black points out, last week, “A senior official from the Justice Department spoke to a group of bankers about the need for them to rat out their customers to the police.”

Assistant attorney general Leslie Caldwell gave a speech in which he urged banks to “alert law enforcement authorities about the problem” so that police can “seize the funds” or at least “initiate an investigation”.

As Black highlights, according to the handbook for the Federal Financial Institution Examination Council, such suspicious activity includes, “Transactions conducted or attempted by, at, or through the bank (or an affiliate) and aggregating $5,000 or more…”

--"War on cash intensifies"



The reality is that banks are closing the loop of their whole FRB system, so that everyone is only playing game on that giant exchange (banking networks), if no withdraw will happen then no bank run is possible


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 25, 2015, 02:39:11 AM

The reality is that banks are closing the loop of their whole FRB system, so that everyone is only playing game on that giant exchange (banking networks), if no withdraw will happen then no bank run is possible

Yep. This could also be the setup to limit the impending bank run before a financial collapse even occurs.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 26, 2015, 03:54:54 AM
News 3/25/15


Stocks are overpriced, overleveraged, headed for trouble (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stocks-are-overpriced-overleveraged-headed-for-trouble-2015-03-25)

Quote
Just to provide a little context for the less technically minded market watchers, the CAPE ratio is the ratio of the S&P 500 index to trailing 10-year average earnings. Q-ratio is the market value of nonfinancial corporate equities outstanding divided by net worth, while the Buffett Indicator describes the ratio of corporate-market value to gross national product. All three of those metrics are approaching two standard deviations above historical means, while forward P/E ratios are within historical norms.


--Of course it takes a 1.5-2% drop in the stock market in a single day for people to slightly wake up.

U.S. stocks hammered as fears about quarterly results intensify (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stocks-wall-street-keeps-a-nervous-eye-on-the-sleeping-giant-dollar-2015-03-25)

Quote
The carnage on the Street marks the third consecutive losing session, with the S&P 500 and Dow industrials recording the sharpest losses in two weeks and occurred as one of the year’s biggest mergers, a deal between Kraft Foods Group Inc. and H.J. Heinz Co., was announced in the morning.

Analysts attributed the selloff to pre-earnings season jitters and investors cashing out of stocks in companies that have seen big run-ups.

The Nasdaq Composite COMP, -2.37%  ended the day down 118.21 points, or 2.4%, at 4,876.52.ost 19.06 points, or 0.9%, to 2,072.44. Biotechnology stocks were hit the hardest, with the iShares Nasdaq Biotechnology ETF IBB, -0.06%  dropping 4.1%.

The S&P 500 SPX, -1.46%  fell 30.45 points, or 1.5% to 2,061.05, with nine of its 10 main sectors finishing sharply lower. Energy sectors stocks defied the trend and followed a rally in oil prices higher sparked by an intensifying conflict in Yemen.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, -1.62%  lost 292.60 points, or 1.6% to 17,718.54, and turned negative for the year. All but two of its 30 components closed lower.

--Long quote but it brings out some key points such as Nasdaq: -2.37% loss, S&P500: 1.46% loss, and investors cashing out of stocks that have recently skyrockted. The market valuation for these companies is incredibly high and most P/E ratios are far greater than the safe "15-20" numbers.

This is nothing like the 2000 dot-com bubble (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-nothing-like-the-2000-dot-com-bubble-2015-03-25)

Quote

Should we be worried about another dot-com crash?

After all, the Nasdaq Composite is back up to 5,000 — the giddy level last seen during the peak of the big tech bubble back in 2000.

There are frothy signs everywhere — booming real estate in San Francisco, overnight millionaires with messenger bags, and everyone doing deals.

Everyone’s got “the next Uber,” “the next AirBnB.” Kids with peach fuzz on their cheeks say they’re going to reinvent the world — and investors with billions believe them.

Heavens, even Mark Cuban is calling it madness — and saying it’s worse than last time.
FAA Grants Approval to Outdated Amazon Drones
(3:05)

Is the FAA too slow or is drone technology developing too fast? WSJ’s Jack Nicas reports on Amazon’s next steps in getting its drones approved by the FAA. Photo: DPA/Zuma Press.

Maybe he’s right. Cuban’s a smart guy. And maybe this is all going to end very, very nastily, as it did last time.

But if this is a similar mania, it’s hard to see it in the numbers. Here are three reasons why is this is not the same as it was then.

One: This Nasdaq 5,000 is not that Nasdaq 5,000.
...
 But by the numbers we do not seem to be back up to those wild, crazy days. Yet.
--The author actually attempts to provide evidence that we are not in another dot com bubble and even though he has some points such as the nasdaq being 5000 now isn't the same USD worth of 5000 in year 2000. However, his entire first paragraph talking about all the mania and crazy high valuations just helps to show how wrong he really is. And of course his argument ends very similar to Goldman Sachs response that we are not in a bubble "yet", so that post-crash they can say "hey we knew it was coming, but we weren't in it when we wrote the article" :P


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 27, 2015, 06:04:20 AM
News 3/26/15



China stocks may be in serious bubble]China stocks may be in serious bubble (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-stocks-may-be-in-serious-bubble-2015-03-26?dist=tcountdown)

Quote
On Wednesday, combined trading on the Shanghai and Shenzhen markets hit 1.24 trillion yuan ($198 billion), the seventh straight session in which turnover surpassed the 1 trillion yuan mark. By comparison, the New York Stock Exchange typically saw $40 billion-$50 billion a day in trading during the first two months of this year.

... “even the cleaning lady” has opened an account to play the market.

In a note this week entitled “The Worrying Sense of Calm in China,” analysts at Bank of America Merrill Lynch got right to the point: “Risk-Love (equity sentiment) in China’s equity market is in euphoria territory. It is time to book some profits.”

“China’s real interest rates remain too high, the currency is too expensive, fiscal policy is tight, and debt deflation is taking hold,” the analysts said.
--At least BofA isn't playing the "its not in a bubble....yet" card. China is an extremely fragile economy right now and if they don't have an influx of businesses (very risky due to government corruption) to fill their ghost towns that they have built as a large part of the GDP, the whole thing can come crashing down.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 28, 2015, 06:13:36 AM
News 3/27/15

How the Fed is 'screwed,' and what happens next (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102541410)

Quote
"There will never be a good time to raise rates off zero when you've been there for six years," Peter Boockvar, chief market analyst at The Lindsey Group, told CNBC. "The Fed's screwed, essentially."

"Zero ... is just an unnatural rate six years into a recovery." Boockvar said. "But the problem is that GDP growth hasn't averaged more than 2.5 percent (during the recovery), so they're stuck in this lackluster, mediocre-type growth rate."

--"When CNBC has a Zerohedge article, that's how you know things are fucked up." --Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30irxk/cnbc_how_the_fed_is_screwed_and_what_happens_next/)
Investors fly away from U.S. stock funds at a rate last seen in 2009 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/investors-flee-us-stock-funds-at-a-rate-last-seen-in-2009-2015-03-27)

Quote
U.S. stock funds have seen $44 billion in outflows in the year-to-date for their worst start to a year since 2009, said Bank of America Merrill Lynch strategists in a note Thursday. Meanwhile, European equity funds have enjoyed $46.6 billion in inflows so far in 2015, as the table below shows.

The driving forces behind the move away from U.S. stocks include investors having been positioned too bullishly, weaker-than-expected economic data and the dollar’s rally, according to the BAML strategists.


Ramshackle San Francisco home sells for $1.2 million
(http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ramshackle-san-francisco-home-sells-for-12-million-2015-03-27)

http://ei.marketwatch.com//Multimedia/2015/03/27/Photos/ME/MW-DI585_sfarml_20150327173642_ME.jpg?uuid=64d43454-d4c9-11e4-a419-c6291b0f64bb

--Housing bubble anyone?


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on March 28, 2015, 06:20:24 AM
Forgot to add this:


Tax on bank deposits in federal budget (Australia) (http://www.afr.com/news/politics/tax-on-bank-deposits-in-federal-budget-20150328-1m98oi)

Quote
The federal government is planning a tax on bank deposits at the May budget in a move that will raise about $500 million a year but which bankers warn could be passed on to customers.

The bank tax, as proposed by Labor ahead of the 2013 election, where it lost government, would be a 0.05 per cent levy on every deposit of up to $250,000. It was scheduled to start on January 1, 2016, and budgeted to raise $733 million in its first 18 months of operation.


-- This law hasn't passed yet and the banks of Australia are currently fighting it...but if it passes not only would you have an income tax, but when you deposit that money into the bank they get to hit you with another tax....LOL. Next there will be a tax for every withdrawal, transfer and purchase. tax tax tax tax tax tax it all! If you even look at money you're going to be taxed :P


Better start getting some bitcoins sooner rather than later!


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: GingerAle on March 28, 2015, 01:37:20 PM
popcorn


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: OROBTC on March 29, 2015, 11:43:19 PM
...

"War on Cash"

I almost hate to chip in with a remark here, but an idea occurred to me recently.  It happened at casino not real far from me.  I went to an ATM to withdraw a decent chunk of cash.

Damn!  A gambling habit can be expensive!  Burns up a lot of cash.  And, of course, all ATMs are monitored to some degree (and all casinos have cameras monitoring their areas, so play a few hands of "21", err, DON'T play!).

It's so easy to lose a bunch of cash at casinos!  I highly recommend STAYING AWAY from them if you have ANY WORRIES about losing your cash.  Almost as bad as the notorious boating accidents are re PMs.  GAMBLING ADDICTIONS are serious business, don't get caught up!


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on April 06, 2015, 06:50:28 AM


News 4/5/15



If Anyone Doubts We Are In A Stock Market Bubble, Show Them This (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-05/if-anyone-doubts-we-are-stock-market-bubble-show-them)


--It's a well written article and has all the important points that I talk about when looking at graphs to show just how huge the bubble we are in.

I highly suggest reading the article for yourself.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: tabnloz on April 07, 2015, 01:12:30 PM
Greek PM meets with Russia tomorrow

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-07/russia-offer-greece-new-loans-gas-price-discount

Apparently the 'worry' is that Russia will offer the Greeks billions in loans in return for a trade deal that effectively bypasses current sanctions.

I bet there is some real House of Cards shit going on right about now.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on April 26, 2015, 07:24:41 AM
I juxtaposed and edited these images today. Talk about a classic contrarian indicator....

https://i.imgur.com/XjD1eR9.png


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: OROBTC on May 06, 2015, 07:22:44 PM
...

Rgr that, 10-4 re Chinese bubble indicator.

*  *  *

There is so much going on re economic troubles (and more worrying for me: "Economic Totalitarianism") that I am actively fishing for even MOAR practical ideas on financial self-preservation. And I have done a fair amount of "preparing" over the years...

I really hate that our .gov and the ultra-wealthy & ultra-powerful have so corrupted our system.

Have we REALLY gotten to the point where it is now (or will be soon):

-- Gold
-- Bearings (our small business run by my in-laws in Peru, our "Plan B" country)
-- Bitcoin (mix them and hide them well)
-- Bullets

that will preserve us as individuals?

Ugh.  As they write at Zero Hedge, the guillotines are getting hungry.......


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on May 10, 2015, 07:08:15 AM
...

Rgr that, 10-4 re Chinese bubble indicator.

*  *  *

There is so much going on re economic troubles (and more worrying for me: "Economic Totalitarianism") that I am actively fishing for even MOAR practical ideas on financial self-preservation. And I have done a fair amount of "preparing" over the years...

I really hate that our .gov and the ultra-wealthy & ultra-powerful have so corrupted our system.

Have we REALLY gotten to the point where it is now (or will be soon):

-- Gold
-- Bearings (our small business run by my in-laws in Peru, our "Plan B" country)
-- Bitcoin (mix them and hide them well)
-- Bullets

that will preserve us as individuals?

Ugh.  As they write at Zero Hedge, the guillotines are getting hungry.......


Keep me updated on what other financial self-preservation ideas you have in the future, it's also something I'm interested in.


News for today 5/10/15

Denmark to stop printing cash next year? http://fusion.net/story/131568/the-government-of-denmark-wants-people-to-stop-using-cash/

Sales to price ratio hasn't been this bad since the dot com bubble: http://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-price-to-sales

S&P 500 P/E ratio now past 20 suggesting overpricing of stocks compared to the ideal "15" *: http://www.multpl.com/


*not sure about the 2009 spike


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on May 30, 2015, 08:08:24 AM
Here are some interesting graphs.

Shanhai index looks like completely normal growth to me :P
https://www.tradingview.com/x/1HpxIO0r/


Nasdaq growth looks slightly more legit than the 2000 tech bubble (not completely vertical)
https://www.tradingview.com/x/ClnebNan/

S&P 500 growth shows how strong the economy is right now
https://www.tradingview.com/x/sfC17KqJ/

This is basically the roaring 20's all over again, let the good times roll.

Also to note GDP growth has been adjusted to -0.7% from its earlier 0.2%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/business/economy/us-economy-gdp-q1-revision.html?_r=0


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: OROBTC on May 31, 2015, 03:36:06 PM
...

lyth0s

Nice charts showing exuberance (perhaps even irrational?) in the financial markets today.  Especially Shanghai, although it looks pretty normal to me ;)  :P.

To me the markets look high, esp. S&P 500 and China.  But, I do read conflicting opinions from writers I trust (that is, whose analyses make sense, not that their predictions are very good), and some say that we could be in for MOAR BULL (markets could still go up for a while) until we get a crash...

For those who have been in the S&P 500 (or otherwise have nice long term gains -- paper gains), it would not hurt at all to sell some, take some profits...  I plan to sell some ETFs soon (tickers VB and VO, these track small cap stocks and mid caps) soon.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on June 11, 2015, 05:35:54 AM
Usually a very good association between Dow Transports and US stock market:

https://www.tradingview.com/x/5iPg1GuQ/

But the Dow Transports has been decreasing and we are now back to August 2014 levels, downhill since the start of 2015:

https://www.tradingview.com/x/hlejIsGS/

Graphs in terms of % changes.


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: lyth0s on September 18, 2015, 05:09:03 AM
No fed rate hike today (not surprising). Maybe NIRP or QE4 incoming soon. FOMC had one person state possible NIRP, which is a new thought circulating in the FOMC that Yellen is currently downplaying. What is really most interesting though is that US stock markets actually went down a little today (S&P 500 down 0.26%) whereas they normally would have seen a nice gain after investors worries about a rate hike are diminished. Very interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/joBTyjl.png


Title: Re: Lyth0s' Economic Troubles Thread
Post by: OROBTC on September 19, 2015, 01:34:50 AM
...

Negative interest rates are very worrisome, for various reasons (including the obvious ones).  THE most obvious one is that the economy must be pretty damned weak if we are even talking about it at all...

CNBC's Rick Santelli mentioned about noon (US ET) that "things get very weird" when interest rates are very close to zero.  A related thought is that raising Fed funds rate 0.25% is a HUGE rate hike, percentage-wise (from 0.12%, say, about where it is now (midpoint of 0.00% - 0.25%, that would be a 200% hike!)

In various branches of math, we see unusual phenomena when ZERO gets plugged into equations.

Interest rates are a fascinating study of their own.  Lots of unusual things can and do happen.  This guy wrote the book:

The History of Interest Rates, Sidney Homer

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Negative interest rates also create perverse incentives (pay bills fast, delay receiving payments).  ZH had an article (where I imagine you got the graph, lyth0s) here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-18/fed-opens-negative-interest-rate-pandoras-box-what-happens-next

Banning CA$H.  Forcing us into electronic money...