Bitcoin Forum

Other => Off-topic => Topic started by: Atheros on July 24, 2012, 07:18:55 PM



Title: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Atheros on July 24, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
I discovered Bitcoin in May 2011 by seeing a post on Reddit with only 88 upvotes. I only barely came across it and if I hadn't, in all likelihood, I still wouldn't have heard about Bitcoin. Bitcoin caused me to learn about and use TrueCrypt, Tor, and PGP(GPG). But it almost never happened! So that has me worried: What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Here are the big ones I know about so far:

Bittorrent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent) - Fast peer to peer file distribution
Bitcoin
IRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat) - Old chat protocol still used
GPG (http://www.gnupg.org/) - Message encryption, doesn't rely on any third parties
SSH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Shell) - Encrypted TCP connections & tunnels between you and a server
TrueCrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/) - Easy full-disk encryption and file-container encryption for Windows
Tor (https://www.torproject.org/) - Anonymous TCP connections and connections to hidden-services

I suppose that TrueCrypt is not a protocol but rather a tool, and if we are including tools on this list, then it gets much bigger. But that's Okay! What are your invaluable protocols and tools and what do they do?

EDIT: added links and descriptions per request


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: smithy on July 24, 2012, 07:50:54 PM
Facebook.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Taz on July 24, 2012, 07:51:12 PM
It would be a great thread if you added a little description to each and maybe a link.
I'll be watching this, thanks.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: rjk on July 24, 2012, 08:08:41 PM
Learn about the essential protocols that glue the internet together - we can always use people that know this stuff!

Figure out how TCP/IP works, and why VPNs that use IPSEC work the way they do.
An interesting one is BGP and its variants. BGP makes it possible to route your data anywhere in the world.
Learn about DNS, and the DNSSEC security extensions.
Read about SSL and the CA system, and why it is at risk.
Discover the alternate roots and VPN-based dark routing schemes that piggyback the Internet as we know it.

Pick one and become an expert, or learn them all and become a network administrator!


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 24, 2012, 08:32:06 PM
What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Read:
 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/07/19/5-essential-privacy-tools-for-the-next-crypto-war/

TextSecure (from same developer as RedPhone), for instance, might be another:
 - http://www.whispersys.com/updates.html

Do a rough assessment of your risks.  If your ISP were to cut your connection to your home, for instance,, how disruptive would that be?  Then perhaps technologies relating to a neighborhood mesh network that doesn't use that ISP would be of interest:
 - http://commons.thefnf.org



Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: mb300sd on July 25, 2012, 03:52:10 AM
What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Read:
 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/07/19/5-essential-privacy-tools-for-the-next-crypto-war/

TextSecure (from same developer as RedPhone), for instance, might be another:
 - http://www.whispersys.com/updates.html

Do a rough assessment of your risks.  If your ISP were to cut your connection to your home, for instance,, how disruptive would that be.  Then perhaps technologies relating to a neighborhood mesh network that doesn't use that ISP would be of interest:
 - http://www.commons.freenetworkfoundation.org



"RedPhone is now Open Source!"

FINALLY some news! I thought it was dead forever after twitter bought them...


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Atheros on July 25, 2012, 07:46:25 PM
Thank you guys!

I've installed Redphone and I'm thinking about TextSecure. At least I know about it now in case I ever want to use it.

I've installed Jitsi and will be getting a friend to use it too so that we can chat securely and use its voice and video features. I had previously installed the OTR plugin for Pidgin but this seems superior.

What are the best / most widely used dark routing systems currently in use? It seems to me that if bittorrent was modified to connect to only Tor Hidden Service bittorrent clients, it would be unstoppable.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: rjk on July 25, 2012, 07:47:19 PM
Thank you guys!

I've installed Redphone and I'm thinking about TextSecure. At least I know about it now in case I ever want to use it.

I've installed Jitsi and will be getting a friend to use it too so that we can chat securely and use its voice and video features. I had previously installed the OTR plugin for Pidgin but this seems superior.

What are the best / most widely used dark routing systems currently in use? It seems to me that if bittorrent was modified to connect to only Tor Hidden Service bittorrent clients, it would be unstoppable.
Please don't use Tor for torrents. It degrades the network and makes it slow.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Atheros on July 25, 2012, 07:51:12 PM
Please don't use Tor for torrents. It degrades the network and makes it slow.

What if it used its own network? Would people voluntarily give up some of their bandwidth to help route traffic seeing as it would be zero-risk?


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: rjk on July 25, 2012, 07:58:16 PM
Please don't use Tor for torrents. It degrades the network and makes it slow.

What if it used its own network? Would people voluntarily give up some of their bandwidth to help route traffic seeing as it would be zero-risk?
I doubt it would be zero-risk.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: randomguy7 on July 25, 2012, 08:30:46 PM
For torrents you might want to look at I2P. It basically works very similar to Tor but you can't download torrents from non-i2p sites/trackers.
I2P is what brought me into bitcoin  :)


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: 01BTC10 on July 25, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Another darknet: https://freenetproject.org/


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: UPENtXF on August 28, 2012, 01:16:30 AM

Seems like some useful soft to know about at University of Waterloo (http://crysp.uwaterloo.ca/software/).

SkypeMorph, for example...


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: payb.tc on August 28, 2012, 01:36:28 AM
I discovered Bitcoin in May 2011 by seeing a post on Reddit with only 88 upvotes. I only barely came across it and if I hadn't, in all likelihood, I still wouldn't have heard about Bitcoin. Bitcoin caused me to learn about and use TrueCrypt, Tor, and PGP(GPG). But it almost never happened! So that has me worried: What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Here are the big ones I know about so far:

Bittorrent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent) - Fast peer to peer file distribution
Bitcoin
IRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat) - Old chat protocol still used
GPG (http://www.gnupg.org/) - Message encryption, doesn't rely on any third parties
SSH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Shell) - Encrypted TCP connections & tunnels between you and a server
TrueCrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/) - Easy full-disk encryption and file-container encryption for Windows
Tor (https://www.torproject.org/) - Anonymous TCP connections and connections to hidden-services

I suppose that TrueCrypt is not a protocol but rather a tool, and if we are including tools on this list, then it gets much bigger. But that's Okay! What are your invaluable protocols and tools and what do they do?

EDIT: added links and descriptions per request

good list.

is there anything as simple and easy to use as "Teamviewer" but which doesn't rely on a centralized company (that can possibly snoop)?

something 2 individuals can more easily verify as being private communication.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: bitcoinbear on August 28, 2012, 01:43:59 AM
I never used IRC until I started reading these forums and people kept talking about it.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: imanikin on August 28, 2012, 02:54:45 AM

I think all should know about Diaspora (http://diasporaproject.org/)!


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: nimda on August 28, 2012, 03:05:36 AM
1. Today -- find a suitable darknet. For example, Freenet. Find some peers to connect to and a community you can talk to securely.
This is protection against government snooping and website takedowns.
2. Tomorrow -- look at the existing meshnet projects. They're not ready yet, but they're coming. Project Meshnet (https://projectmeshnet.org/) is a good start.
This is protection against a larger scale internet blackout.

These things are like Bitcoin; the government is powerless to stop them, no matter how good the excuse or strongly worded the legislation. Protect your first amendment rights and your privacy because they're already slipping away.
http://dundundun.net


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Distribution on August 28, 2012, 03:39:12 AM
This is a cool thread. I always feel like I'm in the same position as Atheros. It inspired me to write a blog entry on some of the things (http://davidshamblin.com/5-free-tools-to-secure-liberty-in-the-digital-world/) I had found (and like him, it was due to Bitcoin). When I posted the article to see what people thought, I got enough suggestions for a part 2, which I still haven't written. Also, check out this article in PC World (http://www.pcworld.com/article/218155/get_internet_access_when_your_government_shuts_it_down.html). The PirateBox is really fun to build, and is my latest obsession.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: payb.tc on August 28, 2012, 03:55:35 AM
perhaps people reading this thread might be interested to know about howtovanish.com if they have never heard of it.

it's worth a brief look over anyway.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: max in montreal on August 28, 2012, 05:53:42 AM
I discovered Bitcoin in May 2011 by seeing a post on Reddit with only 88 upvotes. I only barely came across it and if I hadn't, in all likelihood, I still wouldn't have heard about Bitcoin. Bitcoin caused me to learn about and use TrueCrypt, Tor, and PGP(GPG). But it almost never happened! So that has me worried: What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Here are the big ones I know about so far:

Bittorrent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent) - Fast peer to peer file distribution
Bitcoin
IRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat) - Old chat protocol still used
GPG (http://www.gnupg.org/) - Message encryption, doesn't rely on any third parties
SSH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Shell) - Encrypted TCP connections & tunnels between you and a server
TrueCrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/) - Easy full-disk encryption and file-container encryption for Windows
Tor (https://www.torproject.org/) - Anonymous TCP connections and connections to hidden-services

I suppose that TrueCrypt is not a protocol but rather a tool, and if we are including tools on this list, then it gets much bigger. But that's Okay! What are your invaluable protocols and tools and what do they do?

EDIT: added links and descriptions per request

good list.

is there anything as simple and easy to use as "Teamviewer" but which doesn't rely on a centralized company (that can possibly snoop)?

something 2 individuals can more easily verify as being private communication.


crossloop, google it.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: max in montreal on August 28, 2012, 05:55:31 AM
http://ninite.com/

for those of us in the IT world... ;D


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: payb.tc on August 28, 2012, 06:05:32 AM
I discovered Bitcoin in May 2011 by seeing a post on Reddit with only 88 upvotes. I only barely came across it and if I hadn't, in all likelihood, I still wouldn't have heard about Bitcoin. Bitcoin caused me to learn about and use TrueCrypt, Tor, and PGP(GPG). But it almost never happened! So that has me worried: What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Here are the big ones I know about so far:

Bittorrent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent) - Fast peer to peer file distribution
Bitcoin
IRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat) - Old chat protocol still used
GPG (http://www.gnupg.org/) - Message encryption, doesn't rely on any third parties
SSH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Shell) - Encrypted TCP connections & tunnels between you and a server
TrueCrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/) - Easy full-disk encryption and file-container encryption for Windows
Tor (https://www.torproject.org/) - Anonymous TCP connections and connections to hidden-services

I suppose that TrueCrypt is not a protocol but rather a tool, and if we are including tools on this list, then it gets much bigger. But that's Okay! What are your invaluable protocols and tools and what do they do?

EDIT: added links and descriptions per request

good list.

is there anything as simple and easy to use as "Teamviewer" but which doesn't rely on a centralized company (that can possibly snoop)?

something 2 individuals can more easily verify as being private communication.


crossloop, google it.

i've only taken a brief look so far but my first thought is "how is that any different to teamviewer?" seems you're just asking for crossloop to spy on you instead of teamviewer... both are closed source, flashy website companies.

anyway thanks, will take a closer look and compare.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Gladamas on August 28, 2012, 06:11:10 AM
VPN

Allows you to tunnel your traffic through a remote server, encrypted.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: k3t3r on August 28, 2012, 06:40:40 AM
mullvad.net encrypted vpn, mullvadd do not retain any logs.
pay with btc.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Sant001 on August 28, 2012, 03:33:47 PM
Interesting tools, I'm enjoying Ninite.

Don't forget to check out DNSCrypt (http://www.opendns.com/technology/dnscrypt/), great to prevent your ISP to see and mess with your DNS queries.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: goodlord666 on August 29, 2012, 01:22:15 AM
You do not know about me and my secret masterplan, yet.




Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: RB26DETT on August 29, 2012, 01:17:09 PM
www.TED.com
www.bbc5.tv


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: k3t3r on August 29, 2012, 01:47:15 PM
www.TED.com
www.bbc5.tv
liked.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Rassah on August 29, 2012, 03:20:12 PM
https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs

Also, if you want to expand into the real world a bit, look into arduino and 3D printing.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: max in montreal on August 29, 2012, 05:12:34 PM
logmein.com...the free version!


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: max in montreal on August 29, 2012, 05:14:22 PM
microsoft security essentials...free antivirusif your windows is legit


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Rassah on August 29, 2012, 08:27:23 PM
Lastpass.com


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: BIGMERVE on August 29, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
If you want really awesome dreams try Alpha Brain by Onnit.http://www.onnit.com/alphabrain/ (http://www.onnit.com/alphabrain/)
(use code: ROGAN to get %10 off.)


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: malevolent on August 29, 2012, 08:54:48 PM
OpenBTS / OpenBSC

wolframalpha.com

Tor hidden services

Matlab

Bitcoin Armory Client

VirtualBox/VMWare

RFID readers/writers (eg. Proxmark)

khan academy, coursera, edx, ocw, udacity, uo people\

+ those previously posted


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Distribution on August 29, 2012, 09:17:31 PM
Duolingo.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: max in montreal on August 29, 2012, 11:36:12 PM
http://www.subservientchicken.com/pre_bk_skinned.swf


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Rassah on August 31, 2012, 05:15:32 PM
ZFS file system. It uses a merkele tree, similar to Bitcoin's block chain, to verify the integrity of all the data written to the disks top to bottom, thus preventing any issues with partial writes, accidental writes, bit rot (bits just getting naturally demagnetized), etc. It also doesn't use partitions, writing to the whole disk as a very low level, using space from the very first to the very last bit, and thanks to integrity checks, doesn't get damaged from bad sectors (you won't even know they are there). Thanks to these features, you can put together a RAID array made of crappy old drives, and your data will still be bulletproof.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: squid on September 01, 2012, 06:43:58 PM
Usenet!

<3 freeNAS + sabNZBD + couchpotato + sickbeard combo



Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Distribution on September 14, 2012, 03:26:33 AM
I figured it was worthwhile to bump this. Plus, I had one to add.

Tails (https://tails.boum.org/)--Basically a privacy centered OS you can boot on any computer that allows you to boot from a USB drive. I carry it around on a 8GB USB. Pretty cool. The only problem I've had is booting it on a computer which uses Broadcom wireless cards. It doesn't have the drivers for it. So unless you can do a wired connection, it won't connect to the internet.

Also, this (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/11940), for great justice.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: max in montreal on September 14, 2012, 12:07:25 PM
http://download.cnet.com/Snippy/3000-13455_4-11014443.html


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: phillipsjk on September 14, 2012, 09:27:17 PM
So that has me worried: What other technologies should I really be aware of and using that I am not using (or that most people are not using)?

Microfilm/microfiche. Stores data optically for approximately 300 years. Can be read with a magnifier and light source. I predict that in the future, this will be used to store "proven correct" source code and circuit diagrams.

Pencil/Paper. Works at -30 Celcius, does not require power. Does not work well when wet though.

Bicycle. More likely to be maintainable in a post-apocalyptic world than your car. Faster, more efficient than walking.



Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: benjamindees on October 04, 2012, 10:41:01 AM
Wood.  Self-replicating carbon nano-composite.  Distills water, produces oxygen, filters air, makes food, sequesters carbon, improves soil, creates microclimates, shelters small animals.  Useful for making houses, furniture, heating, storing information, wiping your butt.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: bitcoinbear on October 09, 2012, 01:16:59 AM
http://www.researchgate.net/ (http://www.researchgate.net/) is a social network for research.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: BkkCoins on October 09, 2012, 10:51:03 AM
Jitsi looked interested as I really wanted something like this to replace Skype. But then I saw it was Java based and I hate Java apps. So... what a bummer. I stopped the install.

Isn't there something like this that isn't Java based?


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: bitcoinbear on October 09, 2012, 03:15:09 PM
Jitsi looked interested as I really wanted something like this to replace Skype. But then I saw it was Java based and I hate Java apps. So... what a bummer. I stopped the install.

Isn't there something like this that isn't Java based?

What is wrong with java?


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: payb.tc on October 10, 2012, 02:57:36 AM
Jitsi looked interested as I really wanted something like this to replace Skype. But then I saw it was Java based and I hate Java apps. So... what a bummer. I stopped the install.

Isn't there something like this that isn't Java based?

What is wrong with java?

i hope he doesn't have an android phone, coz if he does, i've got some bad news.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: quasarbtc on October 14, 2012, 03:41:49 AM
DBAN (http://www.dban.org/) - For wiping data from disks.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: teflone on October 14, 2012, 06:13:48 AM
myspace


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: payb.tc on September 02, 2013, 04:03:00 AM
time for a bump to add bitmessage (https://bitmessage.org) to the list. what a great little program


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: nimda on September 02, 2013, 04:28:57 AM
time for a bump to add bitmessage (https://bitmessage.org) to the list. what a great little program


Uh. The OP is the author of Bitmessage ;)


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: payb.tc on September 02, 2013, 04:41:37 AM
time for a bump to add bitmessage (https://bitmessage.org) to the list. what a great little program


Uh. The OP is the author of Bitmessage ;)

wow coincidence, didn't even know that

so he finds out about bitcoin, then discovers all this other cool technology he didn't know about, and then invents bitmessage

nice one


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Deafboy on September 02, 2013, 04:55:22 AM
If you want really awesome dreams try Alpha Brain by Onnit.http://www.onnit.com/alphabrain/
I prefer virtual drugs, so I'm adding binaural beats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats) to the list.
Opensource implementation: Sbagen (http://uazu.net/sbagen/)
One of the commercial products based on sbagen is iDoser.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Singlebyte on September 02, 2013, 05:03:47 AM
The last three posts (prior to DeafBoy...he snuck in post while I was writing) put a huge grin on my face.  That was funny.   I to would have made the same simple mistake.  Its crazy the OP didn't know about those other legacy items and ends up authoring bitmessage.  That was a complete circle around!  Great gift back to the community.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: b!z on September 02, 2013, 07:47:34 AM
The last three posts (prior to DeafBoy...he snuck in post while I was writing) put a huge grin on my face.  That was funny.   I to would have made the same simple mistake.  Its crazy the OP didn't know about those other legacy items and ends up authoring bitmessage.  That was a complete circle around!  Great gift back to the community.

Very amazing stuff. It's very cool to see someone go from being a newbie to creating Bitmessage.


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Atheros on September 06, 2013, 05:50:52 PM


^_^


At this point I find myself reading research papers about messaging networks and anonymity on my way to work. So it is indeed a turn around. Though that doesn't mean that there aren't interesting tools and programs I don't know about and I would always like to learn more.




Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Anon136 on September 06, 2013, 05:54:27 PM
bitmessage

*edit* it has come to my attention that you may have already be aware of bitmessage ;D


Title: Re: I only barely found out about Bitcoin- What else do I not know about?
Post by: Anon136 on September 06, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
If you want really awesome dreams try Alpha Brain by Onnit.http://www.onnit.com/alphabrain/
I prefer virtual drugs, so I'm adding binaural beats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats) to the list.
Opensource implementation: Sbagen (http://uazu.net/sbagen/)
One of the commercial products based on sbagen is iDoser.

wow. im crazy skeptical about these sorts of things, but im pretty sure i feel a little bit high right now listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cHjaJRl1Qo my skeptical nature makes it seem unlikely that its pacebo... but i still have a hard time believing it even though i think i can feel it because it just seems like such a ridiculous thing. either way my mind is blown.