Bitcoin Forum

BitCoin! So here's a fantastic idea. Non-centralized currency, great concept. However, will it work? I mean how much can you really trust it right? Think about this following scenario.

The general public will have these types of questions running through their mind.

1) How can this become a main stream currency if, when you buy something there's no way to actually implement a return system. Since there are no authorities that ultimately means, when you buy something it's final, unless you can convince the seller to refund you. In the event the seller doesn't comply you're stuck with your item.

2) Now lets say, you buy something and it's DOA (dead on arrival) for example a videocard, or a cell phone anything electronic will serve the purpose. Now the seller claims it worked before they shipped it, what do you do? You're obviously not going to get a refund.

These are just some basic concerns I have... I'm sure there's alot more out there. I'm curious to hear what everyone has to say about this.

Buy from reputable vendors.

You can use escrow services like https://clearcoin.appspot.com/.

Bitcoin is digital cash.

When you buy something from the store and want to return it, do you call the police or other government officials? Or do you go to the store and ask them to take back the item and refund your money?


If they care about their reputation, and they don't have a reason to believe that you are scamming them, of course they will.

Firstly, I'm asking these questions to see if there will be a real answer. Don't be a douche and get sarcastic okay?

So with that said. No shit you take it back to the store to return it, but this is a online currency, meaning you buy it online, So if the vendor decides they dont want to refund you there's nothing you can do about it right?

If amazon says they refuse to take back your item what can you do now?  You can easily leave negative feedback.  Shouldn't differ with bitcoin.

You could use paypal as a protection (if they ever accept BTC).

You go to consumerist.com and whine? That usually works.

I apologize, no sarcasm was intended, but I see my tone can construe that.

Even though it's only been a short time since I've started thinking hard about the nature of government, it's difficult for me to recall the thought processes that once led me to believe it was necessary. I do not see any reason why a monopoly on the provision of law and law enforcement is necessary or desirable in order to regulate the interactions between individuals. There are systems that can be used to mitigate risk from both a buyer and seller's perspective (escrow, reputation). There are also systems prevent disputes and settle them when they occur (contracts, arbitration, reputation).

If you have specific questions on what tools you can use, I'm sure the community would be more receptive to those. If you're wondering how individuals can hope to interact without the state as a mediator, I suggest you check out some libertarian sites such as Mises.org.

Bitcoin is not a way to buy things without getting ripped off. It's a way to pass value once you are sure that you want to pass value. Other services can and are being built to help with problems like you describe.

IMO, yes.
BTC take off, hit the roof and then f-ng blow it away !! :P

You can use OpenTransactions to define your own currency e.g. BitBucks that allows chargebacks, and is based on Bitcoins.

And what you think about the use of the coin when we talk about
Drugs, illegal stuf, child porn, assesinations, carding, hacking, war, etc, etc...

What do you think about the dollar when we talk about said things?

Is there some reason you want those things only to trade for government money?

I'd really prefer my illegal recreation not go to support legal wars thanks very much.

Same thing with any currency. It is not that they have just invented crime, and they couldn't exist deja in your society. They already exist and use what ever currency they can grab. Even the banks do drug money laundering these days. Even the government does money laundering, & some other evil things.

Not sure why you made two items, since they are both about the same issue.
The answer is: Bitcoin is a currency. It is *coins*. If you buy a hotdog and it is DOA.... uh ok, bad example. If you buy a camera and pay it in dollars cash, you get home and it's defective. Now the seller claims it worked before he sold it, what do you do?
There's also online payments that deal with the same issue. If I make a direct bank transfer to a company, I cannot have it reversed either. If I pay with iDeal (popular in Netherlands for example), same thing.
Bitcoin does not magically solve all problems related to paying for goods. It solves a number of issues and is better at others than fiat currency.

Sounds like a case of trying to spread FUD....

Bitcoin is designed to be a currency, not to replace all credit card services. The US Dollar, for example, provides no buyer-protection services; these services are layered on top by businesses such as American Express. In places where you would be opposed to paying in cash, you would use Bitcoin along with services that duplicate credit-card style buyer protections (Clearcoin, perhaps, though I haven't used it myself and can't vouch for its quality)

more like not "spread FUD", but pro provocation by police &etc.
FUD is more prefered by corporate mass-media, than direct crime accusation, addicted by police agents.

OP, I have never before considered throwing my computer at the wall with rage more then I have after reading your post.

1. Do you you know what a reputation is?
 
2. Do you know what an RMA is?

I don't want to sound crude or judgmental but damn you surprise me a whole load of stupid. I'll use Amazon for example, they accept fiat right now and not BTC too bad. But if you buy something they'll take it back no matter what it is DOA or not, and if they don't contact your credit card company and show them a copy of their guarantee and you get your money back the same minute. With BTC, once you transfer your coins they are gone. Plus, with you talking about bank transfer and iDeal and all this other non protective garbage that's exactly like BTC. So my questions are asking how can we as a community come up with a solution or they may already be one, like Clearcoin. Bottom line is don't come on these forums and write stupid shit. Thanks. Either say something smart to help or shutup.

No, I don't want to use what you call deodorant. You smell like shit buddy  ;)

thats a good story, tnx.
/pop-corn.

Sorry if the others are a little touchy. The question you're asking gets brought up a lot by people new to the forums, particularly as an argument against bitcoins. This is probably why you've been getting condescending comments from certain corners. There are a lot of people out there who fail to grasp that bitcoins are a bit of a cash analogue.

As for your concerns, there have been a number of ideas floated on the forums. ClearCoin is probably the most successful consumer-protection service so far. The Bitcoin OTC web of trust is also pretty effective, though its interface is a bit byzantine and out of reach for most users.

If you'd like to start a consumer advocacy group or service, go for it. If you want to see what's been done so far, search the forums. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head though. Sorry.

This is the answer ^1.  As the bitcoin economy evolves, people will make use of services which help guarantee returns are possible. Such services become augmented on top of bitcoin. I would imagine that in a matured bitcoin market most transactions will not be anonymous, because it makes sense in most transactions for both parties to be known and accountable. However, entering into these non-anonymous transactions is voluntary.

In the same way, a mature bitcoin economy would not have every participant storing his/her coins on their personal computer. Rather, companies will exist to protect money and individuals can decide to utilize such services.

There is a market demand for security and safety in trade. Entrepreneurs will figure out the best way to deliver, building services upon Bitcoin's fundamentals.