Bitcoin Forum

Simple poll.

Assuming technology keeps up, should Bitcoin be usable by everyone who wants to use it at a reasonable cost, which might be a few cents per transaction, or a new elite, where most people are priced away to 3rd-party services?

Who are "Everyone"?

This means people from all parts of the world, Mali in Africa to Bali in Indonesia, all walks of life, in developed or developing countries.

What is the "new Elite"?

It is not one of the old fiat elites, like the NWO, or banksters, it is part of the new broom to sweep all that away, a Bitcoin-elite, such as found at Bitcoin-Assets #bitcoin-assets (http://b-a.link/), An elite who have a core principle that it does not matter if ordinary bitcoiners can't use the blockchain where fees might be $5 or $10 per transaction.

What do YOU think? Please VOTE!

I chose bitcoin for everyone because it can bitcoin for all people both young and old , men and women

In Bitcoinland elites will rise and fall while in the fiat world elites are sticking no matter what "Ooops, let's just print some money...".

Bitcoin is for EVERYONE that like new things,  adventures  and stuffs like that;  people that do not like experiments will not have bitcoins for now

It's for everyone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4y9vBApz0), and will benefit the poor disproportionately. Lucky them.

Bitcoin is for everyone, from the young to the old

Everyone! who wants to learning, understanding, and have enthusiasm to bitcoin.

Back in 1993, was the Internet for EVERYONE or just a new ELITE?

I think the Bitcoin community is very clear on that question.
There are a few idiots, who most likely never read the white paper or SN's posts and completely misunderstand the concept of Bitcoin, who would disagree, but these people are not the majority, they are just very noisy.

Bitcoin is for everyone and noone controll it. Fiat is controlled by elite and used to enslave masses.

Voted for Everyone, you're already seeing signs of this happening across the globe.

You're seeing it with Bitpesa:

https://www.bitpesa.co/

You're seeing it with Rebit.ph:

https://rebit.ph/

These are some of the poorest nations in the world, so to just say it's an Elite thing or 1% thing isn't actually close to true.

Its like the internet, for everyone.

The question is not “What is it right now?” but “What SHOULD it be?”

Exactly. There will always be elites ALWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS fuck. But the difference for the first time in HISTORY is that the core of the system (blockchain) cannot be changed. This is huge and this is why bitcoin will go 100K per coin.

This, all that matters is the rules of the game being fair. Price distribution is always a bitch.

Bitcoin is for everyone regardless whether it's for a common people on the street or even so-called elites. Nobody controls it that's for sure

Indeed.
A major reason why poor nations remain poor is their woeful financial system. Bitcoin is not a panacea, but it will certainly help level the playing field for anyone who struggles to obtain a bank account. A problem which the elites never have.

The main issue of saying Bitcoin is for everyone today is because a lot of people aren't ready to use Bitcoin. They'll do a lot of bad practices in terms of security and they will have their bitcoins stolen or lost.

Everyone who was in the know whether rich or poor to begin with had the chance to hold a big stack of bitcoin, but it will be hard for 3rd world type places of the world to have access to it now because alot of them are just trying to survive the trap. It will turn to an elites currency imo but who knows except the future.

Is this a rhetorical question?

It should be, but this discussion shows it relevant to Bitcoin's future direction:

Permanently keeping the 1MB (anti-spam) restriction is a great idea ... (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946236.0)

Bitcoin as a technology that is for everyone

Technology should be for everyone. Period. Full Stop.

It's like information, information is for all. Although I realize some governments oppress their people and restrict access to information.

Definitely everyone, it would defeat the purpose of bitcoin if only an elite group controlled it like the centralized currency we have now.

I will most definately say for EVERYONE.

The limited fee structure make it ideal for the poor people to use it. I am one of the lucky people who have worked with the poorest of the poor of Africa on contract work.

These people cannot afford to have bank accounts, because they simply do not have disposable cash to keep in a bank account. They live from hand to mouth... and food is the main concern, not how much money you have stored in a bank account.

They will use the currency to save on fees, charged on money deposited in their accounts. {Example : Weekly salary = $10 .... minus $0.50 transaction fee, for withdrawal = $9.50}

The remittance market will also make a huge difference to the families at home. {Bitpesa / M-pesa is already making a difference}

Right now, 99.9% of the world population are unable to use the Bitcoin, because they are not tech savvy enough. Storage of Bitcoin is risky, and prone to robbery and hacks. So, until this problem is solved, BTC is not for everyone.

I agree with you that right now bitcoin is not for everyone but 99,9 %, how did you calculate this?
I think that this number is much lower because right now only limitations in using bitcoin is Internet connection, basic English knowledge and information about BTC.

No. The most important limitation is to store Bitcoin safely, away the from robbers and hackers. I don't think a lot of people know how to make Paper wallets or USB backups.

Bitcoin is for me and no one else.

All your transactions are belong to me.

Control of resources and power always migrates to those with luck, intellect and ability. Everyone on the globe can use dollars but a few small groups of individuals control the system. Bitcoin will be no different. The control of Bitcoin already rests in the hands of a small select group of businessmen and devs even though individuals around the world are using it.

This will come with time. You could say the older generation can't use PCs or Mobile phones but the majority don't seem to have a problem. You've also got to remember newer generations are far more tech savvy and will get even more so as time goes on.

Yes, but that's just how money works, and Bitcoin was not designed to solve the money distribution problem. The point here is that everyone can use Bitcoin, even if they don't have the big amount early adopters have.

I think we will need better security to prevent people from getting hacked before bitcoin is really for everyone ( including the non-computer literate ). As it is, it is mostly limited to those that are computer skilled.

What I think is extremely pleasurable is that bitcoin is not about this forum

I think I see what you're aiming at. However one may still ask if a hard coded automatic max_blocksize increase is an elegant solution to the problem.

Bitcoin can be used by everyone, but not everyone will use it. After time has passed, a new wealthy elite will materialize among bitcoiners, because most people simply do not practice delay of gratification.

I think in even in the poorest and underdeveloped of nations, Bitcoin solves several of these hurdles, regardless of technical prowess.

M Pesa proves this in Kenya and Tanzania, and they've been transacting with this since 2007 on regular text phones.  With the smartphones getting cheaper and cheaper, and repurposing the same towers they use in Africa, the transition to Bitcoin shouldn't that difficult:

https://www.bitpesa.co/

Bitpesa is the next natural progression.

Warren Buffett amassed one of the largest fortunes in all of recorded human history because he had the luck, intellect and ability to do it. His power and control extends into the fiber of government and the economy. He doesn't keep anyone from using dollars privately. Everyone can use dollars but Buffett controls the direction of major sections of the economy.

Tony Gallippi is becoming a Bitcoin Buffett. He doesn't control Bitcoin but his power in controlling the direction of Bitcoin is clearly defined. Bitcoin wouldn't be where it is today without him. I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Bitcoin just like dollars will always be for everyone. Some people will always have more of both dollars and bitcoin. With that, they will exert more control. I guess you could say Bitcoin is for both the new elite and everyone, not just one or the other.

In what way Tony Gallippi is influencing Bitcoin's destiny? I dont get it.

Its for everyone as everyone benefits from cheaper transactions and control of their own money.  There would be a great deal of rich early adoptors, thats a different problem so first things first.

From the beginning he brought in the largest companies and controls the dumping of masses of bitcoins on most of the major exchanges. He and his team can control the exchange rate by determining the flow of exchanged bitcoins. He has influence in the Bitcoin Foundation. If a development change threatened to cripple his network of business customers he would fight it and most likely win. Some of the only paid core devs work for BitPay. He's smart, talented and will always be a power player in Bitcoin.

Are you saying that the elite is not part of everyone?

Yes they are, but everyone is not a member of the elite.

Then you can't pick “just one or the other”, as you said. Either it's for the elite, or it's for everyone (including the elite).

Here, I'll settle your argument for both of you.

Elite = 1%
Everyone = Elite 1% + Non-Elite 99%

So not everyone is part of the 1%, but for Bitcoin, it applies to the 100%.

What problem is this?

Bitcoin is for everyone, but it is best for our new elite:

http://satoshiroundtable.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/escudo-shatoshi-779x1024.png

I feel as if it's for the elite only. Well, it makes me feel elite.

This thread just reminds me of the wealthy elite thread that's still ongoing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.0

Elites and Non-Elites can get in Bitcoin together now.  Once that happens, we're all considered "Wealthy Elite"!

Nothing. It was just a statement.

The main idea for it have always been to be used by everyone , so why not

As of now, Bitcoin is surely not for everyone.  It takes a lot of time and effort to educated the average person of what Bitcoin is, how it works, etc.  Eventually, I'm sure many of us hope (alongside I) that this won't be a problem anymore and that Bitcoin will be adopted as a worldwide currency.

It should be for everyone. Everyone can get in right now. The world doesn't really work like that though. Assuming it ever goes prime time, by the time it's ready for everyone an elite will be entrenched.

That's how it is for most things and always will be. A small group does the heavy lifting and the masses pour in once their hard work bears fruit.

bitcoin will one day be used by those that need it.

today it's just us, playing with keeping it alive until then.

Not for everyone, their wallet will be hacked/lost/forgotten ... In today's fiat system they simply turn to banks for help under such situation, but no one would help them in bitcoin world

It depend , If you mean get a nice price for you bitcoin and buy it cheap let that to the elite of trader .
Or you mean who can own it , bitcoin is for everyone intead of the Elite who owns 60 % of all bitcoins ,,,

I think Bitcoin will be for everyone when more and more companies will accept it as a payment method.

As the time pass people will get more educated about Bitcoin and use it.

But there is another view that you can read here: http://www.onestopbrokers.com/2015/02/23/five-reasons-bitcoin-revolution/

Yes... that is the sad part. It is very easy to steal Bitcoins, even from highly secure exchanges. In the past 12 months time, some BTC2 million has been stolen, and that represents 15% of the BTC market cap.

Time will tell.

Voted for elite only. I don't like this, but this is the reality. Cca 90% of the world population are unable to use it and 90% of the internet users doesn't really care. If you take a look at the BTC distribution you will see that most coins are concentrated in very few hands. These factors are inevitably going to lead (or already led) to the formulation of a small elite who owns most bitcoins.

This is why the question in the poll says “should be”, not “is”.

You have a point, the term "elite" can be defined in a couple of different dimensions. I think what the OP was going for was whether Bitcoin for the 1%ers or the most powerful or the well off in the developed nations only. On the face of it bitcoin is available to almost everyone in this world, provided they have:

• Access to the internet (via pc, phone, etc.)
• Access to ANY amount of fiat currency, even the smallest denomination of the weakest fiat currency can buy you some bitcoin

It might be up to us, the bitcoin community, to ensure that access to the system remains available to as many people as possible so we don't run into the same debt cycle issues we have with fiat.

"Should" doesn't really mean anything when the game is already over :). ...and like it or not, this game is already over. Without a very substantial investment nobody can reverse the "trend". Who can make such an investment...?

I don't see what makes you think so. Anyone can start using Bitcoin. There's nothing stopping them, except the fact that they don't know about it.

Having bitcoins offshore, secret and unreachable will cause unintelligent people to sell for a loss, thus making the new wealthy elite the master intelligence race. I hope in 10 years all today posters if not handing all money over to the shorters can be considered as elite.

I see your point but I'm afraid it's already too late. Maybe I'm wrong but I often feel that the whole BTC universe is controlled and manipulated by a few whales. But perhaps this is just paranoia :).

Yes, anyone can start using it, but please don't forget that the large majority of the world population getting something between 17-200 (no mistyping that's really seventeen) USD per month. You can find (at least one) such countries even in Europe where 1 BTC at current rate worth more than a monthly average salary. I have some doubts about how these ppl can get into bitcoin.

If Bitcoin becomes the world currency, then there will be people with, for example, 17-200 microbitcoins. I don't see that changing anytime soon, but, by definition, those people will be using Bitcoin as well as everybody else.

Some people believe that Bitcoin is the solution to world poverty. I don't know where these people got that idea in the first place.

I'm trying to imagine as someone with 17-200 microbitcoins paying the 0.0001 BTC transaction fees after each transaction. Parallel I'm trying to imagine as we are trying to persuade the miners to accept lower fees... especially after one or two halving

I second that. Bitcoin is a payment protocol not a remedy for inequalities.

By buying a little bit? Anyone can do it if they really want to.


It does have the potential to open up areas to online commerce that weren't previously possible. That has the potential to snowball.

...

I voted "Everyone".  As far as technology allows (and assuming "everyone" includes those with enough literacy and numeracy so they know how), yes, of course everyone should be welcome.  That would give Bitcoinistan more liquidity as well.

Although I was very tempted to vote myself into The Elite too.   :)

You're trying wrong. If Bitcoin is a world currency, then the transaction fee would be 1 satoshi, not 0.0001 BTC.

Yes, but it's not the purpose of Bitcoin to end poverty. It would be a side effect.

I choose Everyone because this is my understanding of Bitcoin basic principle. To be for everyone, open and free.
I do not know who should be that Elite or New Elite - I did not understand that.

Bitcoin is for everyone, but the early adopters will be the new elites.

The either-or dichotomy in the poll is asinine.

I also voted everyone because it is anyone can go and buy bitcoin most of the time whether that is p2p or on a exchange. People either do not know or choose not to care but in the end they will, of course along the way bitcoin is going to make some wealthy elite just as the internet did but it will not be many and that does not mean it is just for them either.

True , since in theory fee would scale with price increase as more and more people mine and network becomes stronger as well. Everything fits in. Satoshi is a legitimate genius.

Bitcoin is for everyone!
Though it might have made the first to adopt it a new wealthy elite.

To me that sounds back to front, to start with it was created and cheap so everyone could adopt it easily in the process it will have created a few wealthy elite who got extremely lucky. It is still for most but it has cut out alot of 3rd world country's so i would not say for everyone but it is for most who want to be involved :)

This is an interesting question. I think that currently, bitcoin is for "just a new elite". That said, I think the only way for bitcoin to really take off is for bitcoin to be accessible to everyone.

There are so many obstacles currently for people to obtain a bitcoin, especially if you're not in a really well developed country. I live in Canada, but I'm in China for a few months now. I can't even register in most, if not all exchanges because I don't have a Canadian cellphone number or address right now. It's completely stupid. I'd buy 15k worth of bitcoins, but I can't even do that right now. For bitcoin to succeed, it needs to be easily accessible to everyone. Currently, that's not the case.

Poor Satoshi's aka Nick Szabo's dream was that Bitcoin should be embraced and used by the masses. Unfortunately, just like everything that is finite in this world, the elitists seem to be busy centralizing the currency. Anyone with a huge amount of resources can easily play the market atm. For all you know it could be the US govt. that is manipulating the price of Bitcoin or maybe some big banking cartels. All they seek to do is create confusion in the minds of the general public. Not just this, the huge set of scams that seem to dog bitcoin also seemsto be fabricated by these cartels who see bitcoin as a real threat to the fiat monetary system and are afraid that mass adoption will lead to people losing faith in the fake fiat monetary system that is present atm. I still believe that Bitcoin should be for everyone and that people should look at btc not as an investment vehicle, but as a a currency.

but bitcoin enough to help the economy to someone who does not have a job, like me :)

so bitcoin to everyone I agree :)

Bitcoin is for everyone smart enought to keep the Bitcoins secure. Not for masses today, but there is still development going on and the hardware Bitcoin wallets have promise to be secure and cheap.

I feel that bitcoin can be for everyone, it saves people a lot of expenses when sending money overseas and makes currency in general easy for everyone to use.