Bitcoin Forum

http://www.businessinsider.com/capital-controls-leak-in-greece-is-about-internal-politics-2015-2

Remember what happened when capital controls were put in place in tiny Cyprus… Well Greece is much larger, and it has a problem on its hands…. Oh look at Bitcoin trend higher as the markets near the end of the week.. (This week was a doozy in the global markets)

A report in a German newspaper on Thursday that the European Central Bank (ECB) discussed capital controls for Greece, which was subsequently denied by the ECB, highlights deep tensions within the institution.

Capital controls basically mean extremely tight restrictions on investments and deposits in banks.

When Cyprus brought in capital controls in 2013, ordinary people couldn't withdraw more than €300 from banks each day, and businesses couldn't send more than €5,000 abroad without proof that it was for international trade.

These rifts at the ECB threaten to make the problem for Greek banks all the more severe.

The thing that sets the ECB apart from other central banks is that it has to set policy for 19 countries, which means it has to cater to different governments that often have divergent needs and interests. Internal politics within the organisation are magnified because so many countries are involved. <------ The euro is done, and no other currency can fix this situation, bitcoin is hardly a fix but I guess it will be the best of the bad apples.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/capital-controls-leak-in-greece-is-about-internal-politics-2015-2#ixzz3SDJKvjAl

I've been watching the BTC price climb at Coinbase; I think people are paying attention to this.

It's the Greek government who should put some capital control in place. All the money is leaving the country, and this government isn't doing anything. They just watch the beast bleeding. It will die soon.

Nothing says democracy quite like capital controls… lol Dude the money system is fucked, when rome collapsed nobody today talks about currency debasement… let the reset begin and the plebs do what they want… the $ is going to be worth much inside or outside the bank. Bitcoin however is not seeing the same types of volatility based on geopolitical events affect its price. granted they do affect the price volatility of bitcoin but the compared to the mess in russia, euro, USD, Japan… holy shit… bitcoin looks nice, especially once you understand the hows and the whys of bitcoin...

This whole euro crap is not made for whole europe, there are many cultutal differences in the soutern countries in comparison to northern. It doesn't work out, Germany needs to stop wanting to control other countries, greece is becoming the bitch of germany.

Im nut certain bitcoin price rising slowly has anything to do with Greece, it would look more logical to be related with this :
http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/19/dell-accepts-bitcoin-canada-uk/

It seams that dell is now accepting bitcoin worldwide.

cheers

My point exactly, the euro is done. However there really isn't a competitive replacement. Countries going back to their original currency is a bad idea, when lever pullers have the ability to pull the print lever they will… <--- that i think is the biggest issue with national currencies.

The control of money needs to be taken out of the hands of politicians and bankers… I am not advocating the hanging of bankers, politicians, elite(although it would be a nice a spectacle) just let them do their jobs with Bitcoin being the medium to work from.

I think there is virtually no supply at these price levels and once the time comes which is going to be sooner rather than later, hours/days/week(s) not months the price is going to explode again until supply shows up, however the global rush into bitcoin could be underway… The highways are more or less paved… The bearings are *GREECED* in a way they weren't when cyprus happened.

It is only a matter of time before capitol control are put in place, except this time they could also be global… See you at the moon bitcoin… This definitely isn't bearish for bitcoin...

And what would their job be exactly when bitcoin replaces the very need for their existance, well atleast after the initial transition from traditional monetary system to new one.

To stay on the ground, i doubt EUR is going enywhere, the country's are going to keep it, and i dont see any reason for it to go down once the smaller countrys realise what their mission in EU zone is, and stop acting as EU parasytes.

cheers

There could also be a day very soon where oil and major commodities are commanded by the US gov to trade in bitcoin if not get nationalized. And then bitcoin will be worth a bitcoin, we'll get there. Sooner rather than later..

Think of it like this, Gyft and egifter, coin base, bitpay. circle are paving the way for corporations to accept bitcoin for now they are selling them instantly for fiat… once they get this under control they could all have a conference call with each other and say beginning tomorrow at midnight at bitcoin transactions will stay in bitcoin.  No more fiat, and then you will have a bitcoin worth somewhere in the range of 10,000/coin to 1million a coin.. The fed will have to step in to stabilize the price a bit until the masses catch up and then consumer/business2business supply demand take over… This is the only way quantitative easing can end without crashing the markets and global wealth. Its not like money printing will end… Bitcoin are continuously being created, in fact creating the largest financial system ever eventually with a grand total of something near 2.1 quadrillion units.

Merchants accepting bitcoin has tended to have zero impact on price in my experience (at least in terms of immediate reaction). No one reads a headline that company XYZ is going to accept bitcoin, jumps up, and runs off to trade $$/Euro/Yen/etc. (which XYZ already accepts) for BTC.

The thought that Greeks (and others) may soon be scrambling to find something to convert their bank funds into, similar to Cyprus in 2013, and that a few may already have started, would be more likely to move the BTC price needle.

When companies like microsoft and paypal jump there was an impact, but the price is being kept down in purpose. The impact will reveal itself sooner than later.

I don't think so,Greece is going to accept europe conditions and it will continue being part of the european union trying to recover its economy

This will make the greece voters (majority) so mad.

Any Greeks who'd put their capital in a safe place have already done so by now.

Can you identify the price change associated with the Microsoft and Paypal announcements? I can't. The MS implementation was very low key, I recall (you really had to dig in their website to find it). As I mentioned, no one will go buy extra BTC simply so they can pay MS/Paypal/etc. in BTC rather than fiat, so merchant acceptance announcements have only a subtle, long-term effect.

On the flip side, increased payments with BTC increases the velocity of BTC, driving the price down. (Many people around here incorrectly complain about merchants dumping BTC, but since someone had to first buy the BTC (unless they mined it) to spend it at a merchant, this is largely a wash. It's the velocity that is the price killer as it inflates the effective money supply.)

What do you mean by "price is being kept down on purpose"? By whom? The only way they can do that is by already owning a lot of BTC and then selling it off aggressively to offset buyers bidding the price up. Why would someone try to lose a lot of money deliberately? Who would be able and motivated to do such a thing? Why not just accept that the current price is an accurate reflection of the aggregate of the entire market's opinion on the value of bitcoin?

...

The possibility of bypassing capital controls is, for me, one of the best and highest uses of Bitcoin.

The fact that you can take a large value easily out in a Ledger or Trezor (or even with NO hardware <--- large balances in web wallets not recommended though) gives some protection of keeping some of your wealth under your control.  And our friends at TSA would even have a hard time controlling taking a Ledger with you (whereas they could always STEAL your gold coins...).

Bitcoin represents some financial freedom.  Bitcoin is a great diversification into safety.  Diversification is a wonderful thing.

That would be a heck of an about-face given the ruling party's rhetoric and stance. On the other hand, the Germans and so forth don't sound like they are going to cave in either. To do so would hasten the final continent-wide apocalypse as the other PIGS demand further concessions to support their overspending habits.

So either one side seriously caves compared to their current position, or we have a train wreck (Grexit). And nothing gets fundamentally solved if the Grexit is avoided with compromising half-measures, so the long-term trauma continues to metastasize. Nations just as much as people have to learn to live within their means, and so long as that basic principle is ignored with a flood of excuses and rationalizations the problem will only grow.

TL/DR: Governments and people are still behaving irresponsibly, so HODL your bitcoins because sooner or later fiat is going to be worthless.

+1 It struck me the other day that one can use BTC now to completely do an end run around the rather tyrannical controls the U.S. government uses to keep its citizens from leaving for greener pastures. Currently you suffer heavy tax consequences if you try to leave the U.S. and renounce your citizenship, but if you convert your assets to BTC first, then in principle you can make a clean escape. That could be very valuable intel someday...

https://localbitcoins.com/instant-bitcoins/

Looks like there is a decent price premium for local Bitcoins in Greece right now giving validity to higher buying pressure
in that country which ultimately increases market price-

george_g (9; 100%)    0 km    Athens, Greece    275.04 EUR    50 - 3000 EUR    Buy
omiros23 (30+; 100%)    0 km    Athens, Greece    224.26 EUR    30 - 750 EUR    Buy
kelpy (30+; 89%)    0 km    Athens, Greece    228.87 EUR    2500 - 10000 EUR    Buy
bomberb17 (30+; 100%)    0 km    Athens, Greece    243.73 EUR    300 - 2000 EUR    Buy
Bitcoin.gr (3; 100%)    0.0 km    Athens, Greece    244.27 EUR    700 - 2000 EUR


254 usd to 312 usd a bitcoin.


By comparison Paris has local btc sold between 240 to 271usd and Rome has between 238 to 280 usd per btc for local prices on the street.

Yes, but more money is constantly being generated by economic activity (tourism/agriculture) and financialization (EU QE/loans).

That new money needs to be put in safe place.  The problem with using Bitcoin to avoid capital controls is traceability.

Greeks (and the rest of us) should be looking into Monero, Bitcoin's anonymous/private little sister.

Thanks to the new site xmr.to you can spend it anywhere that takes BTC.

If the bankers didn't corrupt and break the system they created and the elite weren't soooooooo damn greedy the greece issue wouldn't be an issue at all. It is a vile thought to think the plebs are the overspending ones….

There are 85 people in the world with more money than 3billion… I am sorry but this is NOT OK. This IS the root. And now those 85 people want to control your every every every minute of life… FUCK THEM!

Since when was debt every truly serviceable…. If I print 1note and loan that very first note out + even the most minimal interest, how can it be expected I pay back the debt and the interested owed…. 

And loose lips sink ships… As exciting as bitcoin is, if you own more than 1-10 you best STFU!