Bitcoin Forum

Mods - please stop moving topics about AT (Automated Transactions) into the alts section.

AT is not an alt nor has it been designed to only work with alts (even if it is only currently implemented in an alt so far) - it is a technology which can be implemented in any blockchain platform (even Bitcoin if they ever decided to do that).

Perhaps whoever is moving my topics could take the time to read this: http://ciyam.org/at/at_script.html

Try PMing the global mods or the board from where your thread was moved mods and explain the situation.

The board he posted is Development & Technical Discussion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=6.0) and moderator of the board is gmaxwell (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=11425).

https://i.imgur.com/urgH3o9.png (https://i.imgur.com/urgH3o9.png)

   -MZ

If it was @gmaxwell then that is rather disappointing indeed.

Perhaps he should take a look at my PMs to see that even Gavin has asked me about AT (I don't think Gavin tends to send PMs to forum members about their alt coins).

Try to PM gmaxwell about this issue and ask whether he did it and if yes, tell him to avoid this in future. But I think it was done by a Global Moderators. It would be good if you PM Global Moderators and Admins - most of them check Meta though.

   -MZ

@gmaxwell should know what AT is about as I have sent him a PM about it before, so as I stated if it was him then that is very disappointing (and I am not going to send another PM to him).

I'd at least hope that the mod who moved it would actually "show their face" and explain themselves - sheesh.

I don't know someone would do it. It maybe was their mistake. Try to PM grue, Maged, Raul Duke, SaltySpitoon, Stefan Thomas and BadBear.

   -MZ

Am sure they have seen this topic.

How can you be sure? A lot of mods are inactive or away for large parts of the weekend. I'm sure it was just a mistake. It can happen from time to time though I can see why someone might have thought it was alt-related.

Check the OP of the topic and then tell me why the mods would think it is "alt related".

(the bit with *** telling the mods is not entirely obvious?)

As the person that keeps reporting your AT posts to be moved into the alt section please explain to me like I am 5 years old why your technology is bitcoin and not something "bitcoin 2.0". As you say yourself it is not even implemented for use with bitcoin, while other "bitcoin 2.0" technologies are and they still belong in the alt section.

So thanks for showing up - and have you read this: http://ciyam.org/at/at_script.html

(I am not going to degrade myself to talking to you like a 5yo as I assume you are not a child)

After you have read that can you please defend your position?

BTW - have you reported TierNolan for ACCT being altcoin also (as that is not possible on Bitcoin either)?

My guess is that you have an agenda against either my projects or myself (perhaps you are a Nxt fan?).

Also - you admit you are unable to differentiate between an "alt coin" and a "technology"?

(dumb - and proud of it?)

Well I hope that you are happy with your result - it won't stop the development of the project nor the failure of your own agenda!

Oh and look - he has an "ad sig" - what a surprise!

(a guy who has no shame to sell his posts to the highest bidder)

Maybe I'll just report your crap posts to the ad sig campaign owner (but who knows they are probably as morally bankrupt as yourself).

Yes, but my understanding of it is limited, thats why I "degraded" myself and asked for a simpler explanation. Since you wrote it I assumed that you would understand your technology good enough to explain it to kids. From what I understand its something that could possibly be done with any or most crypto currencies which would enable it to be programmable in a way that is currently not possible with scripts.


It is not part of bitcoin and thus it does not belong in the bitcoin section.


I dont know what you are talking about. If you can link me to the thread I might remember whether I have reported it or not. I tend to report "a dozen" or so posts daily and the mods have a tendency to agree with me. Not allways. I e.g. reported your "no signature people" here thread to be moved into meta, because it is mainly about how the board is with sold signatures. AFAIK it was not moved, but I did not follow it very long and you might have reached other topics by now.


No, this is nothing personal I just like things to be sorted in the correct section. This is not allways easy or possible and I might very well have a missunderstand of your technology.


I would appreciate it if you did not result to insults.


Maybe you should just ignore all of us, wasnt that your plan in order to "slow down" the board and thus make theymos change the policy?

https://i.imgur.com/X4pb2uc.png

It was put in a part where other projects that "might be in the future of Bitcoin are allowed" so if I am not allowed then please remove every other topic that also isn't part of Bitcoin today.


That was actually Danny Hamilton's idea - but whatever (you clearly don't read very carefully do you).

Enjoy wasting all of our time to earn your ad sig posts (we all can see what kind of a person you really are).

Like hilariousandco told, PM the mods or else, it might be moved again.


You have a project to advertise. We don't have things like that and also, persons who use paid signatures aren't always spammers and also, they might not have enough money to live with.

   -MZ

The mods don't care (that is clear enough already).

If you guys think that a technology created to do Turing complete txs across any blockchain is just some alt-coin then fine - you lose (this very forum represents the "old world" that we are going to replace anyway).

You might have noticed that I am not the moderator that makes these decisions I merely suggest that an action should be taken.


You are correct, it was your suggestion that it might cause issues.


I personally have seen enough of you now. This will be my last post to you, enjoy.

Well at least @shorena had the guts to admit it was he/she that reported my posts to the mods.

Now would the mod who moved the topic please also have the balls to actually step up and say who they are?

You can't judge it now because the mods may not have seen this post. That's why I keep saying to you to send PM to them.


Like I said, they may not have seen this post. Anyway, it is you who judge the forum for your needs. So you are free to leave or stick with this forum. :)

   -MZ

I think the mods do watch the Meta topics (if nothing else) so let's see if one of them steps forward to say they moved my topic (actually I thought you could actually tell that before - has that changed?).

You were really contributing and helping others but now you are making double post? :-\


Where did she do that?


They have the balls but they may not have seen this or didn't have the time when they saw this post.

   -MZ

Okay Mohammed Zahir - you make a good point.

I got a bit upset as after nearly a year of effort in creating a technology that has been designed to work with all blockchains I get treated like some snake-oil salesman selling some new alt-coin.

I just wish those with *some brains* would actually read the material and work out what is what.

Yes they do, but it's the weekend and they also have lives outside of this forum. The two globals BadBear and Grue (whom it is very possible one of them moved it) haven't been online since early this morning so just have some patience.

Sure - I will wait - I have already spent over a year on development of a technology that provides a "Turing complete" transaction system which can work on basically "any blockchain".

I just find it a pity that some mod can just move my topic (without even bothering to research what AT is) and then go on a weekend holiday when I work 7 days per week and nearly 365 days per year to develop it (did they do anything like that - I doubt it).

In future mods - don't go and move topics then take a holiday (that is pretty low IMO).

Do you mods really have *no standards at all* that you just move topics and take holidays and "that is fine"?

(so any controversial decision you make will be followed by a short holiday then?)

You are being absolutely pathetic and extremely petty. Calm down and just read what you're actually typing.

Okay - I just want to know who moved my topic - surely you can just tell me that - can't you?

(let's try and keep the emotional language out of it please - I am calm but not interested in being "dicked around")

Yeah because not being online for a few hours is taking a holiday. Be patient. You'll get your answer, but you can't expect to snap your fingers and get your way. I can see why AT might be interpreted either way. Remember that the staff are volunteers and not employees.

Okay - I will be patient - and your point is noted (the only reason I got upset is that the mod who moved the topic did not respond when I challenged that almost immediately after it as moved - but hey maybe they moved the topic just as they were leaving their home for a holiday).

I don't have the ability to do that, but it was likey a global or gmaxwel if it was moved from Development and Tech, but like I said before neither of them have been online since this morning. I'm sure you'll get an answer soon enough but I don't think it's that big of a deal. At the worst a mod made a mistake. Sometimes it happens.

Sure - I am not trying to escalate this (I got a bit pissed off though I admit).

When you put in so many hours into a project that you hope can benefit everyone and end up being "relegated" to the alt-coin board it is a bit disheartening.

If "Project Development" makes more sense then I have no problem being moved to there (as most of my other stuff is there anyway).

No one knows what AT is because everything you've written about it is either very long and technical or assumes that the reader already knows what AT is and what it's useful for. This applies to everything at ciyam.org/at. You need to clearly summarize its uses and give a basic outline of how it works in a few paragraphs, or else pretty much no one is going to dive any deeper into your documentation. (People who spend a lot of time on something very often make this mistake of assuming that everyone is interested and knows what you're talking about.)

About categorization:

Firstly, an "altcoin" is any non-Bitcoin currency, even if it uses the Bitcoin block chain in some way. And for something to be considered to accept or send bitcoins, it must be able to accept or send Bitcoin transactions directly from/to an unmodified Bitcoin Core client without any intermediate step.

Project-related topics belong in the non-altcoin sections if any of these are true:

1. People can make use of the project directly using bitcoins without any explicit conversion step, and the end result of user action is not just another cryptocurrency (or something similar). For example, if you have some sort of gambling application that uses a sidechain/altcoin/etc. to function, but people can immediately send bitcoins to it and are get bitcoins back, then that's OK. The site can also use an altcoin as "chips" if the site has an integrated and very simple way of exchanging between these chips and bitcoins. Smart-property systems are OK (whether Bitcoin-based or not) as long as the site or software that the forum topic is about can accept bitcoins directly in exchange for the smart property. A site where you pay BTC to get a Namecoin domain would be OK. But altcoin or colored coin exchanges and topics about individual altcoins or colored coins themselves would usually not be OK (even if based on the Bitcoin block chain) because the end result of user action is a non-Bitcoin currency.
2. The main purpose of the topic is to discuss the creation/extension of something that would meet the above definition. (This probably belongs in Project Development.)
3. The main purpose of the topic is to discuss a reasonably-possible extension to the Bitcoin protocol/software or general discussion about ways of using the existing protocol. For example, discussion of merged mining is OK; discussion of Namecoin is not.  (This probably belongs in Dev&Tech.)

I don't know enough about AT to say whether it belongs outside of the altcoin section or not. I don't even know whether it has a currency component.

There hasn't been any real interest or discussion in it in technical-development-- This isn't meant as an affront on your efforts: You don't see similar noise about related (and I think more relevant) projects being worked on by multiple people on the Bitcoin Core team (moxiebox), simply because they're also not mature, and not yet interesting to a wider audience.

The last updates I saw on it were repeated duplicate threads announcing a really large bounty for creating an altcoin based on it.

With the lack of interest and constant bumping (along with post deletion), I was considering moving it between project development and altcoin subforum; the huge create-an-altcoin bounty made me think the latter were more suitable (or at least, would get you the attention you want).

Usually if there is anything I'm on the fence about I wait until someone else does a report-to-mod on it before taking action-- I'm not sure if I did in this case (if I had to guess I'd say I hadn't waited), or not, but I'm just speaking to the usual process. (Thanks Shorena for all your great button mashing.)

This thread is only 10 hours old. I work on Bitcoin things nearly every waking hour of nearly every day.  I am, however, obligated by certain biological limitations to sleep at some times. In the future, you should have PMed first: For one, I might not have seen this thread for a couple days if not for dogie PMing me, but also I would have gladly answered your questions... and there wouldn't be a need for me to wake up to pages of antagonistic complaints because I had the gall to take a few hours off Bitcoin in order to sleep.

CIYAM's problem solved. gmaxwell has given good points for moving it, if it is undone, please consider not following what you did earlier. :)

   -MZ

Everyone has a "bad day/night" and last night was one such for me (this is what happens when you stay up until 4am 7 days per week for months working on projects).

I apologise for "going a bit crazy" and have sent @gmaxwell a PM requesting that the topic be unlocked and moved to Project Development (as another mod suggested that might be an appropriate section).

@theymos "Automated Transactions are a Turing complete smart contract implementation designed to work on any blockchain" (when I have enough spare time I'll add that to my website along with some more simple descriptions of various use cases).

6-7 hours are fine for sleeping, atleast sleep for 6-7 hours.


No problem for me, I do understand! Although you have done publicly, if I were you, I would PM shorena(& anyone else) about my attitude at that time.


Good luck!

Mind locking this thread and the other?

   -MZ

I will send a PM to shorena and will lock this topic now (and the other one in a minute).