Bitcoin Forum

Does anyone on the forums have contacts in Spain?  I'll give a 10 BTC bounty to creates a protest sign with the BitCoin logo and protests in Spain.  5 extra BTC if you pass out business sized cards with the BitCoin logo and website address on them.  Please enclose pictures for verification.

I think the situation in Spain has potential for bitcoin, but, i think not many people will care about looking into it in the first place.
Looking at the maps of bitcoin nodes it looks like its growing exponentially.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those people protesting in Spain protesting against government austerity measures? Because if I'm correct and they are first of all I have zero sympathy for them and 2nd of all I wouldn't want Bitcoin to get associated with socialists in anyway shape or form.

A protest doesn't seem like the right way to spread this anyhow.

What, and being associated with right libertarians is any better for Bitcoin's image? It's more important that Bitcoin become more widely used than to quibble about who is using it.

You really are something else, you know that?  There are major pieces of human reality missing inside of your head, this is my honest opinion.

People are protesting against the bankers stealing from the pool of resources their society puts aside to spend on its common goods; schools, roads, healthcare, purchasing power and the like, the kind of services and freedoms that help a society to function that have been won over the years by the common man and womans passion for life through unending political motion and all you can do is piss all over it with your Sociopathic Austrian-School Loonspudery.

I salute the marching Spaniards, they know their rights, they know what's important to them, unlike the hordes of deluded socialism-sneering Randbots they know that government has a purpose markets alone cannot understand, they pay for their government and as such they know that it must always be made to serve them. So they march.

You claim to hate the 'banksters' but all the while you spout the kind of inane guff only the likes of Goldman fucking Sachs or JP shitting Morgan could secretly gleefully approve of. You make me sick.

http://roarmag.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Spanish-protests-elections.jpg

Hail to the Spanish protesters, they have my sincere respect. Thank fuck somebody's awake.

"No Pasarán!"

Pentatilde, if I was drinking something you would owe me a new keyboard. Just FYI. At least my monitor is easy to clean.

I agree. In my opinion there is nothing inherently political about bitcoin itself. It's money for fucks sake, everyone likes money, everyone finds it useful.

All the same, no need to keep quiet in the face of Libertards upchucking their psycopathy all over it.

Pentatilde, I like that, but you can call me G.;)

ITT: liberals who think government socialist policies benefit society.

What rights are they protesting? the right to receive other peoples money?

Wealth redistributing policies break the very market forces that produce wealth. You cry about the poor, etc, then advocate a socialist system which creates poverty and enables the likes of JP Morgan to suck our wealth.

grow a brain and join the dots. you make me sick!

Egalitarianism clashes against the libertarian economist thought process of maximizing wealth for everybody.

The free market does not provide fairness.

It is a mistake to think that technologies have no political consequence. If bitcoin drive us toward a libertarian future, than it is apt to call it a libertarian technology.

The funny thing about this is the top tax bracket and growth rates during World War II and the McCarthy era. McCarthy was a socialist, apparently.

Taxes do a good job of buying civilization. Maybe there's a better way, but libertarians haven't presented one.


The technology itself is neutral. The decision to make it deflationary is distinctly libertarian, but that's not a reflection of the technology, just a choice of the original author. I could build a demurrage or inflation based blockchain, and, with time, I think it would do better than bitcoin. But my issue is I don't think swallowing a chunk of the world's CPU power is the right way to go.

The technology having political consequence - yes. But that may not have the same political consequences as its author intended. Reality is fickle like that.

Also govt has frozen a lot of money of the people because of the protests, something that shouldnt be possible imho. Not sure if it's all true, just read it...

Read my signature. I really don't care about your whining. I have learned through Austrian economics how the world works and in my ideal kind of a society you'd work hard and most importantly you'd keep the fruits of your labor. Having people doing nothing for whatever reason and getting subsidized by the government is 100% a proven recipe for failure. And that's an indisputable fact: you always, always get more of what you subsidize, ALWAYS!

Now I'm not against people trying to express their frustration with the current conditions per se. Au contraire! I'm all for it. What bothers me is their proposed solutions which however well intentioned are proven to have horrendous consequences for the general welfare of society. And I will never ever EVER in any way shape or form support people who are advocating such policies. Not in a million years, and even if babies have to starve and die in front me I will not do it.


Also if Bitcoin was not designed to have a fixed limit of supply it wouldn't even interest me. It is one of the main reasons why I find it extremely appealing which is the fact that no one on the whole planet can steal from me through inflation.


Hmm I see your point. I guess you are right. We don't have to endorse their ideas in order to introduce Bitcoin to them. Yeah maybe I was wrong. I just can't stand their ideology, that's all.

Come on guys.  Let's make a better future.  Fighting only serves to divide in favor of those who wield power.  There has to be some common ground where we can improve things.

Too late. 

I used to think this too. I know these people don't have it all figured out, but consider this. If I come to you and promise to take care of your needs if you give me your schools, your roads, your money, and then make you buy an expensive license for everything more complicated than walking alone and your needs aren't met and you aren't making a move to give me back all those things and leave me alone then I'm going to make demands on you. These aren't people clamoring for the creation of a government (though maybe they have and would again I don't know) they are demanding something that probably doesn't total even to all government buildings and land let alone all past squandered wealth.

Doesn't seem like the venue to spread bitcoin. It's kind of a thinking thing.

this have a relation to the Ley Sinde too :-|, the copyright and another issues... anyway, more info in spanish http://alt1040.com/tag/spanishrevolution

take a look:
http://cdn.alt1040.com/files/2011/05/Captura-de-pantalla-2011-05-20-a-las-13.57.40-640x415.png
^ that no looks like Spain will be Socialist or something like that! ~_~

..

Because according to you, bitcoin pertain to libertarians? Sorry but you really don't have to be a libertarian to understand the usefulness of bitcoins. Technology is neutral and your little ideological beliefs aren't going to change a thing.

No, there are "major pieces of human reality" missing in YOUR mind! What you kleptomaniacal socialists do not understand is that everyone, not just the bankers, but EVERYONE in society is looking out for number 1. Even if you call them judges or presidents or they wear special uniforms. Whenever you allow any agency in society to systematically steal from one group and give to another you will always have this as the end result. As far as I am concerned, I am sympathetic to those who really don't know whats going on. But those who dismiss us as "conspiracy theorists" or those who actually believe in this statist coercion they are getting what they deserve. The Banksters are still bastards, but so are those who advocate initiation of force.




LOL

Other peoples money... you fail to understand that the money they are protesting being handed to the bankers is their money, the taxes they paid to their agent their government to be spent on the society in which they live. Democracy is by no means perfect, it's flawed and messy and corruptible like people always have been, but it's better than rule by dictat or the divine-right you Austro-Schoolers effectively favor.

I didn't mention the poor, nor have I indicated that I am a socialist. Your rabid hatred of the poor and knee-jerk rejection of this thing called society has crowded-out your ability to reason.

So-

Subsidize healthcare -> more healthcare
Subsidize education -> more education
Subsidize infrastructure -> more infrastructure
Subsidize purchasing power -> more purchasing power.

Yes, you're right, I think it's a great idea!

One thing though, why do you have this fixation about people sitting around doing nothing? The people that pay taxes are the ones to benefit from the expenditure of said taxes. How this is done and with what priorities and to what effect is a matter of political processes. The principal however holds. Furthermore subsidizing purchasing-power benefits everyone, not least because of the multiplier effect but also because it means the ability to live for those at the very bottom of the economic pile, those that you so rabidly hate. I have noted that sociopaths often despise the weak.

By the way you do realize that in the normal course of events people can find themselves unemployed for all sorts of reasons, structural unemployment for instance when whole industries go bust or move on, sometimes after many generations where the economic life of entire regions had formed around a now defunct coal or ship-building industry or whatever it is, leaving many thousands of hard-working people whose lives are committed to that region now without work and in competition with each other for whatever employment remains.

Then of course there's seasonal unemployment when those skilled in particular sectors only active for part of the year find their work out of season, or frictional unemployment as has/will probably happen to all of us at some time in life when between jobs for whatever reason. Not to mention people who aren't earning  due to injury, old age, the need to care for dependents, or the various social ravages of history. All these people you seem to despise as wasters, even as you endorse economic ideologies that would cause the employed to be even less secure in their jobs and their incomes to be even more pressurized by the global free-market avarice you so obviously adore.

You can hate the bulk of humanity it's probably your nature, but those involved in society are not unfamiliar with these kinds of issues, that's why they think government and it's behavior a serious and necessary business, not a matter for anarcho-capitalistic buffoonery. Whining like spoiled children that wish not to share their toys. It would be comical if it were not so despicable.


Of course, this is no surprise, it is because you are the enemy. We can tell the enemies of humanity as they tend to be the sick unhinged bastards that would have babies die on a point of principal. The fate of such people is a matter of historical progress.


The image you leave with this last sentence; a wretched grinch-like creature, hunched over its treasure, polishing it's gleaming gold coins in some dank cave somewhere. Oh yes, that's a creature of the Austrian-School all right. You should consider a job at Goldman Sachs, you're their kinda guy.

http://memecaptain.com/i?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20100918144151%2Fmerlin1%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F7%2F79%2F3.jpg%2F462px-3.jpg&tt=Fuck+the+babies&tb=I+have+my+GOLD%21

There is nothing wrong with rigorous debate, and we have common ground...

http://www.oneradionetwork.com/wp-content/themes/wp-smooth-prem/images/stories/bitcoin.jpg

This is not a rational argument.

Also, there's no unemployment when economic growth is unhinged. There's only people who don't have valuable skills. It's up to them to make themselves valuable. A man has to sustain himself. It's his only obligation as an organism.

The poor and helpess would also be cared for through voluntary means. We don't need government force to care for them if people are inherently caring. If they aren't, government is doomed anyways.

Classic. This is the problem with socialists. Am I greedy for wanting what is mine? If I don't want to share my crayons because I think you will break them or eat them, well, I am just a greedy witch with no compassion who would kick a baby out of the street if it was in the way and spit in its face.

I really don't see what's wrong about wanting to keep what you have earned through your own labor. Is a man not entitled to his body and energy?

Just because I can keep somebody who can't work alive for the rest of my days, am I obligated to? It's a silly morality.

Economic and political turmoil... as a "promotional opportunity."  ::) Oh, and good luck trying to get 20 and 30 something year-old Spaniards to go for these Randian hallucinations. These threads are good to have from time to time. They cause the locals to display their plumage in all their glory. Oh who am I kidding? They happen all the time!


This needs to be nominated... for something. I know! I'm going to save a special place in my sig for the most unspooled quote from these fora. You are the first winnar!

I didn't read your whole post and this will be my last reply because I know I wont change your beliefs and values that you have learned throughout your life from people you trusted, I mean who the hell am I, some geek on the internetz, you'd be stupid if you did let me affect you.

But I did want to address this common mistake that you made in the quoted part of your response:

Subsidize healthcare -> more healthcare != better healthcare
Subsidize education -> more education != better education
Subsidize infrastructure -> more infrastructure != better infrastructure
Subsidize purchasing power -> more purchasing power. != better ect.

Sure you'll have government sponsored services, and you might even have more of them. But these services will be exempt from the profit and loss equations that other business have to figure out if they want to operate effectively and stay afloat and they will be exempt from competition which always, and this is a historic fact, always leads to inefficiency. And guess what happens when you run a service, which doesn't know how to figure out if it's effective and has a fatal flaw that will lead to inefficiency at the same time...


But like I said I know I wont change your mind. The best I can hope for is that you hopefully still have an open mind, direct you to this video: John A. Allison(BB&T CEO) "Leadership and Values" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDAn51D_YxY)

And then hopefully you'll head over to www.mises.org and at least try to research their take on common social and economical problems, if nothing but to hear the other sides arguments.

Having said that, I'm out.

Technology is certainly not neutral.  The widespread adoption of Bitcoin doesn't imply any particular ideology with the code, but it does imply a sea change in the idealogies of those who will continue to use it.  Like any other disruptive technology, you cannot be unaffected by it's implications.  That's why we call it disruptive technology.  I've met many a person with enviromentalist and socialist leanings, but I've yet to meet one that refused to own or use a toilet.  Composting maybe, but they definately owned a toilet.

To paraphrase the Bible...

'Not all dissentors will become libertarians, but they will all be changed.'

The goals of these discussions shouldn't be to change anybody. It should be about improving ourselves.