Bitcoin Forum

After Dell Embraces Bitcoin In UK and Canada (http://bitforum.info/t/dell-embraces-bitcoin-in-uk-and-canada/335?u=angelo), what will happen to bitcoin?

Given that its only available in UK and Canada.

How can Dell's acceptance of Bitcoin affect each of us bitcoiners?

It affects us by dropping the price.

Good for adoption and acceptance, bad anytime someone makes a purchase, since Dell immediately dumps the coin for fiat.

Double-edged sword, but I'll take it for the long run.

How come you're sure that theyre going to dump it for fiat?

Because they use Coinbase as a payment processor:

https://www.coinbase.com/merchants

Payment processor in this context essentially means Bitcoin to Fiat immediately.  Which means Bitcoin sold, which means price goes down as soon as a Bitcoin gets sold for fiat.

Man! this is pretty bad , i was first thinking it is amazing but never thought of the dumping fact :(

Though people say this would effect the price!
Dells buy's at exchange rate and they being a big company would keep a limit to reach when to sell their coins , they will not just put up a single order if i suppose the duty given to the guy is being performed nicely

It has zero immediate effect on price, I would say. And in the long-term, it may help to spread the adoption range. We will see further ahead what kind of news follow.

The fact that bitcoins get sold right after dont mean price drop, since that very bitcoin had to be bought first, the price isnt affected in a negative way,
it does have positive side because it means bigger adoption, possible new users etc..
If someone is to say that dell , or any other merchant acceptance is bad for bitcoin, theyre wrong, since thats the very point of bitcoin.

cheers

Depends on if the buyer replaced the coins he/she let go

Of course, immediately it will not affect anything. I think it's despair expect the price to be affected immediately.

I think the market is really low,probably overstock and newegg have more impact on bitcoin

I don't see this changing much in the long run.  Like .5 percent of their transactions will be done with BC.  I don't think anyone that is tech savy trusts Dell products anymore...

has dell released some bitcoin sales figures? beside making the price go lower as some one else in this thread mentioned there is no significant effect.

I have seen NO information reporting ANY sales figures, since Dell first adopted bitcoin. {2014} They should not have difficulty getting those, because they using a payment processor for all BTC transactions.

I just know if it was HUGE it would have been reported in every media channel availlable.

They might just be experimenting with this, and if this turns out to be a failure, they would just hide it away.

One of the hardware Bitcoin wallet manufacturers should arrange a deal with them to sell a wallet with every computer / notebook / printer .... Then you will see REAL adoption.  ;)

Drops the price, specially because it sells it immediately tthrough services like bitpay. And people buyin it, usually don't buy bitcoin specially for that purpose, so in a way its a dump that happens after every purchase.

If Dell's supplier accepts BTC, then it is good news.

If you're looking at it with consideration that Dell will sell their bitcoins instantly in a bulk than it will effect the price , as that will be dumping and no matter the increase in number of people , it will decrease the bitcoin rate by little

It is good PR for btc and it is good to have quality spending options but...
..I expect the actual price impact to be zilch

No one buys bitcoin with fiat and pays for the computer with the newly bought bitcoin. The effect is a dump. If they offer a 10% discount for paying with bitcoin, that will be different.  :)

none whatsoever as others have said, stop thinking "merchant adoption" is going to help the price because it hasn't so far and it wont, merchants are forced to convert the btc back to fiat because they need to pay their bills and taxes in fiat, end of story

btc is useful for buying illegal shit and for holding as a get rich or lose everything gamble (the reason most of are still here if we're being honest), give me one good reason why anyone should wire money to a btc exchange to use that btc on something they could buy with their debit card, there just isn't any point

I am really amazed that people still don't understand how Bitpay works:

Merchants can decide to keep 0-100% of the Bitcoin they earn. There is no reason to believe that especially a company like Dell(with a lot of profit, so, they don't have to dump all BTC to pay their bills) wouldn't keep a fraction of their Bitcoin.

how can it affect the price when bitcoin had to be bought in the first place? at best it would just create more room between bid and ask price.
i buy bitcoin, buy on dell site, they sell that bitcoin, the price evens out. its a different thing if you are spending bitcoin u has earlier.

cheers

Its good and bad..

Because there is not enough buy pressure for us to be able to accept the amount of Dell and Microsoft is dumping all the time.

i think no effect on the price
but this is good for marketing bitcoin, that dell embrace bitcoin in uk and canada
this means, other company should aware that there is another payment options is using bitcoin

Okay let us suppose , there is joe and he buys certain item from his neighbourhood shop , but then the shop owner says i accept cash ,CC and BTC .
So will joe pay with cash or think NO i should pay via BTC with all the hassle of learning and doing shit
AND then there are you , knowing about bitcoin and shit , you need something from that shop , you go and you have 3 choices , you choose whatever is fine and you pay.
So Dell accepting bitcoin is more useful for people already using btc and won't put much effect on buying side

Probably not much for now. Else you should see the price going up. I think the effect would be more profound towards long term because if you have a company successfully integrating bitcoin to their payment system, you will see others which will follow suit and if that expands into every company accepting bitcoin, there will be quite a demand for it.

You really don't get it, do you?
There a two pretty obvious good things about merchants like Dell accepting Bitcoin:
1. A lot of people still think, Bitcoin is drug money. Have you heard about the Silk Road trial? That is how  a lot of people see the use of Bitcoin.
So, even when you tell them all the good things about it, they still don't see any use for it, because they don't want to do illegal stuff, so they don't even look into it. That changes when a big player like Dell accepts it, so people think: "Oh, you can also do legal stuff with this Bitcoin, maybe I can use it for something"

2. It makes the market more fluid. I haven't meet anyone, who said, he pays with Bitcoin, but doesn't buy back the amount he used. So, yes, that is the pressure on the buying side.

Your example is just plain stupid: Would Joe see, that the merchant accepts Mastercard and go through all the hassle to get one? Same thing. No, he won't just for that one purchase, but after seeing it a couple of times, he might consider going through that hassle.

As despair is to expect that every single news that has Bitcoin in either title or body text would have to influence the Bitcoin price.

Coins are constantly being bought and sold at exchanges so how is there any sense in this? Are you saying bitcoin needs to be held for the price to rise? This is just some twisted logic people use because they can't find reasons for why bitcoin isn't magically rising all the time so they blame it on people selling their coins. Well what do you expect people to do? The more people that get involved the more demand their is for coins and they need to buy them from somewhere. You might as well blame the miners for selling their coins for fiat too.

Guess, you didn't catch my double-edged sword comment above...

I agree with you.
One single company as Dell is not enough to change the negative trend right now, bit more such '' big'' companies over period of time can help bitcoin.
Many bitcoin users right now don't see ''big picture'' and reacting in fear, selling BTC in panic.
For such people, one ''positive'' news like this will not help much but more such positive news can help to change thinking of people, so that they recover their confidence in BTC.

I disagree with this. I would say it would help increase the price over the long run as people buy bitcoin with the intention of spending it on dell computers, and then start to use it for other purposes as well

Well! it will be awesome

Or start paying their employees with bitcoin.

Okay i get what you're saying but what would you say about the effect of dumping by Dell ???

That is part of the market being fluid. Fluid means, that the price is more stable, since there is so much activity, that a single action wouldn't influence the market much.
In theory for every dump of Dell, there is someone refilling his coins. So, there is the same raise at supply and demand, which, in theory, means, that the price isn't affected.
I know, most people want the price to raise as quickly as possible, that is not going to happen, by the "using and refilling"-part, that happens by the "more people seeing BTC as a good/legal/usefull thing"-part.

I still can't agree with you , let's just wait and see what impact does Dell have on it's value

I don't think, you can tell, what impact Dell had on the market after some time, since Dell isn't the only player here.

I am curious about, which part do you disagree with.

Ammmm ...what can i say , am not that good with words.
Let us see Dell accepting BTC as a bigger image , that will bring more people and more and more people will buy using BTC but just simply Why would they?
I mean it's as simple , an average person prefers thing he is familiar with , though people already familiar to BTC will use to buy products of Dell through BTC but people who have never heard of it might not .
When i buy something online , some sites show me many options as Moneypay ,OKpay and all , i just know they are some payment method but i am just familiar with Paypal and credit card and will prefer it over them .
Though , it's all about perspective, that's how i see it
~Regards
 Koelen3

I hope so. When every company with major brands starts accepting bitcoin as a form of payment for their product, the perception of the people will start to change. Not only it functions as a currency, medium of exchange but it will also be a stable form of investment.  Right now, it's not there yet, No thanks to the recent hack which somehow got people to mostly lost confidence on how secure bitcoin is

With repeated mentions of Bitcoin as a purchase option, people might start getting comfortable around it.
They may not start using it immediately, but at least they will think about it.

Yes it is more like promoting BTC..its a good step n hopefully more companies will follow.

I mean that it`s good example that Bitcoin is accepted and it can help to make it more popular.

One side effect is that Dell is selling Bitcoins for fiat and it push price down.

I am curious what is main reason for someone to purchase from Dell using Bitcoin if it`s only for US and Canada. I see major benefit of using Bitcoin in international transactions and payments. For speed and low cost.

It will be amazing if that happens

they are directly not accepting bitcoins
they just dump the bitcoin for cash that buyer pay them, they are accepting fiat only and dumping bitcoins for it

It will effect us very big, in a hige way tis gonna kill the value even more than ti already has. Dell is a coin dumping merchant, and this does not benefit us in any way it hurts us:) maybe the Bitcoin community should stop worrying about coin dumping merchants and start making thier own Bitcoin only sites and services. do you thyink Visa or mastercard had to begt and plead for people to accept their transaction process, no and guess what those assholes charge you a fee to accept their credit card, how ass backwards is that? Thats right folks, as a merchant you pay 2% of your transactions back to visa just for accepting the card. Hmmm? whats wrong with this picture?

I don't feel it will have any affect on the price but with Dell, many other brands too will start accepting bitcoin which will make it a recognized payment method.

This is the thing.... Companies accept BTC as a payment method, but they do not incentivize the "use" with discounts.

If I was a merchant, and I find a payment method, that bring me say 15% lower fees {banking / transfer fees etc..} Why not invest some of that "savings" into funding of discounts, to get people to use it more.

You walk into a shop, it says.... Pay with Bitcoin, and get a 30% discount on certain products. {Basically the products with the highest markup} You take a small knock on the discounted goods, but in the next 6 months, you would make up for that, with the lower fee savings, from more people using the new cheaper payment method.

Or have a smaller discount, and install a Bitcoin ATM at your site, to make it more accessible for people to buy it and cash in on some of the profit from the ATM.

These merchants cash in on the savings from the lower fees, and are not willing to invest in the growing of the adoption.   :(

Not significant at all right now. The problem is that they instantly convert to fiat. So actually it affects the price in a negative way. I'm not sure about the overall effect that it has though.

The positive effect was not enough to overcome the trend down.

This is twisted logic and I don't believe it to be correct. So are the miners and everybody else who sell their coins pushing the price down? No. What we need is more merchants so demand outweighs the supply and the price goes up, but saying merchant's who accept bitcoin but use a payment processor is bad is very wrong and counter productive to adoption in my opinion.

I posted about this in the other thread and I don't want to repeat myself here but basically there are two forces at work here. The first is the downwards pressure on BTC price caused by Dell (or rather the payment processor used by Dell - I heard that it's Coinbase) since they are selling bitcoins for fiat. Second is the upwards pressure caused by increased publicity for Bitcoin, mainstream awareness, and perhaps a softening of Bitcoin's image as it is used for legitimate purposes - certainly the huge number of businesses "accepting" BTC in 2014 did remove some of the stigma associated with Bitcoin and its association with drugs in the eyes of the public.

It may be that Dell accepting Bitcoin could negatively impact the BTC price or it might increase it somewhat (the former seems likely IMHO). Or it could be more complex than that - i.e. we might see a net downwards pressure in the short term but upwards pressure in the long term or vice versa. We'll never know because as others have already said, even if the BTC price tumbles or skyrockets, Dell isn't the only merchant that accepts BTC and there are so many other factors affecting the BTC price at play.

Do you get discount if you pay with BTC to Dell? Otherwise, if you have to buy BTC to pay, then there is not much point.

Nope, you don't get any discounts for Dell. But it is more intended for people who already have bitcoin and wish to buy something from Dell with it.
They anyway dump the bitcoin they collect immediately.