Bitcoin Forum

Hey Guys!
After a long time with a lot of ideas I have finally decided to create my own asset, and not only be a investor on GLBSE but also a Issuer of my own asset!
So with no further ado, I bring you Gamma Insured Pirate Pass Through!

Name: Gamma Insured Pirate Pass Through (in short GIPPT)
Summary: GIPPT is a insured pirate pass through, this asset is run by DeaDTerra and Insured by INeedAUserName. Each bond has a face value of 1 BTC and represents 1 insured BTC with Pirate. The Bond pays 1.8%% in dividend each week, it’s a safe and secure way to invest with Pirate. Get the interest rate but none of the risk!


GIPPT Contract
5000 Bonds will be released at the IPO, each for 1 BTC each. The issuer holds the right to issue further shares for the same price or higher. Each bond has a face value of 1 BTC and gives the holder the right to a 2.5% interest rate per week (0.025 BTC per bond and week). This interest will be paid as a dividend once a week on Wednesday at 21:00 (GMT+1).  Bonds have no voting rights. In case of Pirate default INeedAUsername will pay 95% of the bonds face value to the bond holder, while DeaDTerra will pay the other 5%. The Issuer has the right to buy back all the bonds for any reason and at anytime for the face value of 1 BTC after paying out that week’s interest rate. In the case of where Pirate changes his interest rate, or the way he pays out the issuer has the right to change the contract appropriately.

The asset will be sold on the 3rd of August at 19:00 GMT+1, 5000 bonds will be sold, out of which 1000 Bonds can be pre-ordered. The bonds will be sold for 1 BTC each.

For additional information and for details go to: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w0m-Goxlekfj-W3SVKpCGo862KVcbzeaTgCt59uujvw/edit#


Contact information:
Email: Terragubben@gmail.com
Skype: Terragubben
PM: DeaDTerra

*edit* The contract will be updated shortly to show the new interest rate changes :)

Reserved :)
//DeaDTerra

Is there some way to guarantee payment in the event of a default? Will coins be kept in escrow, do you have other assets that would fund it or what?

I'm interested, but I need to be confident that the insurer can cough up >5000BTC at short notice in the event of a BTCST default.

From my perspective here, what you're offering is essentially a weekly CDS at a rate of 4.5% per week (not unreasonable given the risks involved). Would you consider selling CDS outright? (that is, say, I pay you 4.5BTC/week and in return you guarantee payment of 100BTC if pirate defaults). I'm not sure GLBSE has a way to offer that but I'm sure there would be interest.


But yeah, I'll buy some if you can make me confident that the insurance can and will be honoured in a timely manner in the event of default  ;)

Instead of getting 2.5% with your scheme, I could get ~7% on 1 BTC (e.g. with FOO.PPPPT) and deposit a second BTC in cold storage, bringing my total profit per week to ~3.5%. How is 2.5% a good deal?

+1 to this :)

Regarding the backing questions, please check the google document.
"
How can we guarantee that the bonds are insured?
95% of the face value of the bonds are insured by INAU (INAU), these 95% will be split up and deposited into trustable third party lenders, for example HashKing. They will sign a Gpg contract stating that if pirate defaults or fails to return the amount deposited with him then, they will pay this amount to me (DeaDTerra). The 5% I cover will be done using personal holdings, these will be held in Gamma Bitcoin Fund and will always be accessible.
"
I will be backing 5% of the bonds face value while INAU backs the rest 95% of the face value, giving a total backing/insurance of 100% of the face value. INeedAUserName is a major lender that has been in the game for a long time, he has no problems backing 5000 Bitcoins. The safety of these Bitcoins will be guaranteed thanks to third party lenders that will hold the coins, and pay them out to me in case of a pirate default. Hence neither me or INeedAUsername will have direct access to these funds.
//DeaDTerra

Insuring pirate is a big risk, and as you are trading 1:2 as you pay 1 BTC to essentially get 1 BTC in pirate and 1 in Backing, we can not offer as good rates as normal uninsured pass through.
//DeaDTerra

But you have the 5000 BTC in backing already rallied up somewhere and the second BTC to be deposited at pirate will anyways come from users, not you?

Also, will the BTC that are insurance backing and that are "invested" somewhere completely pirate free? It might be the case that they are "invested" in a hidden PPT and in the case of a default would take down the person holding the backing too!

Indeed, that is the case.
We will do out best to find lenders with as low pirate exposure as possible, but to be honest it's hard to find anyone that's totally free from exposure, as there's both indirect and direct exposure levels. We will make sure that the lenders realize that it will be used to back a pirate default and hence can not be involved in pirate investments. In the case where the deposits fail to payout, INAU will go in and pay his debt personally.
//DeaDTerra

Let's look at a scenario in which pirate defaults in just 4 weeks for simple maths:

You put 200 BTC in here - you end up with 220.762 BTC, you're +20.762

You put 100 BTC with pirate, and 100 BTC locked away, paying half your interest into the cold storage coins each week to keep your insured amount level - each amount goes up to 114.752 BTC, so you had 229, but you just lost half, so you're -85.25.

With a bit of maths, we can see that it'd take 71 weeks for your pirate funds to "catch up" so that you'd be better off after a default with your method.

Straightforward enough?

Any chance you can give us a breakdown (even in % terms) of where the insurance funds will be kept?

The exact placings/splitting  of the fund has yet to be decided, I will give you guys rolling updates as we move towards the IPO :)
//DeaDTerra

I have hit my 10 PMs per hour, so please give me some time to answer your pm :P
If you can please email me ;)
//DeaDTerra

I also want to add that if you want to pre-order the shares you pay 1.02 BTC per share, as you have to pay for the transaction fee as well :) But on the other hand you get guaranteed bonds, and at the face value of the bond.

Edit: Bed is calling, any questions or concerns will be answered tomorrow morning.
//DeaDTerra

I really do wish you the best of luck but surely the fact that I'm more interested in the assets you're buying as insurance than the assets that make up the yield-paying bond tells you something  ;)
That is, with Pirate's current level of deposits and assuming trust account interest stays where it is Pirate's liabilities will increase by about 1 million BTC in the time taken for you to break even.

Best of luck  ;)

All the pre-order shares have sold out, so if you want shares I recommend posting a bid before the 3rd of August at 19:00 GMT +1 to ensure that you get your bonds :)
//DeaDTerra

It seems to me that this is basically a bet by the issuers/backers that Pirate won't default in the next 20 weeks. The issuers will obviously lose money on a Pirate default, and it will take over 20 weeks to "generate" the backing through the reduced weekly rate. However, it's not a bet against the buyers, because the buyers don't lose money if pirate doesn't default in 20 weeks. They simply don't earn as much as they would with an uninsured pass-through.

Is this correct?

Correct the lower rate will pay off the backings and generate profit after the threshold has passed. The bet is not against the buyers as they will always receive the 1 BTC back independent if pirate defaults or not :) INAU stands for 95% of the backing and I for 5% of it. Hence 100% of the face value of the bond is covered.
//DeaDTerra

Well then I wish you the best of luck in your bet. I've done some math (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96092.0), and it turns out GIPPT is worth over 1.2 BTC. A little birdie told me you were selling pre-ipo shares for less than that, so I bet I'll be buying a few at IPO.

Cheers

Will the IPO price also be 1.02??

I was indeed selling 1000 shares at 1.02 BTC each, but they are all out now :)
Though the rest of the shares will be offered on Friday.
Anyone interested please do place bids on the shares.
//DeaDTerra

The IPO price will be set by the market, but if I notice there's not enough demand then I will wait with releasing all the shares, I don't wish to create a massive bid wall or to crash the market.
//DeaDTerra

Of course not. That's why people buy in bulk.

Edit: well I was wrong; the issuer will sell up to 4K bonds down to 0.1

The IPO has been released on GLBSE :D
https://glbse.com/ipo/179
https://glbse.com/asset/view/GIPPT
So place your bids people :D!
//DeaDTerra

Yay! My friggin GLBSE balance won't update fast enoughhhh :(

No need to hurry, the actual shares are not released until Friday :P

I also want to note to this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96092.msg1058988#msg1058988
Where Nimda comes to the conclusion that GIPPT is worth between 1.2-1.3 BTC :)
//DeaDTerra

I'm up for bidding on some of these, but I still want details on the insurance arrangements - what's in place now?

Right now me and INAU has the agreement that I will insure 5% of the face value of the bonds and INAU will insure the other 95%. These 95% will be placed with Imsaguy (as it looks right now), which will agree to hold them as a escrow. In case where Pirate defaults then agreed amount is transfered to me, that then buys back all the bonds at 1 BTC each :)
I will write a exact contract and make all three parties sign it.
//DeaDTerra

If there are enough bids, what's the minimum price the shares will be sold into? 1.00? 1.02? Something else entirely?
Thanks for the information :)

The Initial Share price  will be 1 BTC per bond

or are you asking something else?

Oh, yeah, sorry I missed the part where it said they would be sold for 1 BTC each. Found it now though :)
I knew the face-value would be 1 BTC each, but wasn't sure for how much they were going to get sold.
All good now, thanks :)

Waay underpriced IMO & BMC (by my calculations)

Which is why I'm buying some :D

Will the funds placed in escrow be in an address that will be made publicly available? If not, buyers would be right to assume that the insurance funds will be invested elsewhere. Not that it's a bad thing, but there's always a chance of default, even from more conservative investments (such as mining). The ultimate insured PPT would be where the insurance fund sitting in cold storage away from everything else, including GLBSE.

I'm concerned as well with Goats offering and this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97347.msg1073433#msg1073433

I am on my way home. all your questions and concerns will be answered asap.

Could you please ask INeededAUserName to confirm in this thread that he insures 95% of the face-value of all bonds? It's not that I don't trust you, it's just better to have this written down somewhere. Thank you very much :)

I want to offer something of value and that's beneficial for both sides. As I can't compete with interest rates we will compete in IPO price ;)
Awesome, place you bids now :D

No this will not be the case please read the google document provided for details :)
Imsaguy, will hold INeedAuserNames backings, and in the case where pirate defaults he will transfer them to me :).
They will be making interest rate and there's of course a chance of a default, in this case the debt for the insurance still lies with INeedAUserName.
If both ImsaGuy and INeedAUserName defaults then, I will pay out my 5% and we will shut down (this is a VERY unlikely scenario, I highly doubt this will happen. It would take a three fold default for this scenario to happen)

Imsaguy makes his profits mostly from mining, which is why we chose him :)

Indeed that would be optimal for the purchaser of the bond but unfortunately not for the issuer. Hence we have chosen something inbetween, it's not high risk or connected to pirate but it still makes a nice interest rate :)
//DeaDTerra

This will be answered shortly :)
//DeadTerra

I'd just like to confirm this.  Tonight, INAU and I executed a GPG contract that effectively bought out all EIEIO.A holdings.  Those coins can be recalled from EIEIO on a two week notice.  It gives me latitude to interact directly with DeaDTerra should INAU go missing in action.

Thank you for the confirmation :)
Now I just need INAU to get his ass onto the forums and confirm the third part xD
//DeaDTerra

I am now verified on GLBSE :)
//DeaDTerra

Logic question.

Supposedly, someone offers to lock up 5k in escrow and then insure 5k pirate coins with it, paying 2.5% interest to customers on them. If the same person were to just place the 5k into BS&T and take the whole interest himself, he would never have more risk, but always more profit.

I don't see why anyone would make such an offer.

INAU does this through some very smart accounting :)
Which makes it more profitable to do this insurance then it would be for him to directly invest in Pirate. I can not give away the details of course, but trust me I have seen the math it works out :)
Btw where is my micon sign of approval? I haven't gotten one yet :)
//DeaDTerra

The 5000 shares have now been issued, they will be up for sale in 25 minutes!
Make sure to place your bids :)
//DeaDTerra

Some errors with GLBSE has delayed the IPO slightly :)
The shares should be up for sale in a couple of minutes.
//DeaDTerra

Hahhaha kind of xD
Anyways now the bonds have been sold :)
I also setup a small ask wall at 500 bonds, I will refresh this walll when needed.
2500 bonds left for grabs
//DeaDTerra

Just got some shares, thanks :)
Do you have any news on INAU? I would love to have a confirmation from him if possible.
I've PM'd him, but he isn't responding :(

Thank you very much in advance!

Okay great!
I am talking to him on skype atm, I will get him to post a confirmation here :)
//DeaDTerra

Hello, I can confirm I am insuring 95% of these bonds.

The following contract has been signed by the two parties involved :)
Imsaguy also has to notify me if INAU has requested a cancel of the Deposit, to make sure that we have enough backing for the bonds. Also if ImsaGuy defaults then INAU is still responsible for the backing and insurance.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This contract is a loan provided by ineededausername to imsaguy.

(1) Addresses

ineededausername - 112N78zVYPairAzsBZgejEaob7gE8CenW7
imsaguy - 1CntCXtyq2kFiYpFwpua2k2XaKdHffLz2A

(2) Terms

3750 BTC was provided to imsaguy's designated address on August 2, 2012.  In return, imsaguy shall pay 9% interest on every 2nd day of a month to ineededausername's designated address.  The principal will be returned if one of the following happens:

  (a) imsaguy, having provided 2 weeks' notice, requests that the loan be terminated on the 2nd of some month.
  (b) ineededausername, having provided 2 weeks' notice, requests that the loan be terminated on the 2nd of some month.

(3) Collateralization

This debt shall be used as collateral for DeaDTerra's GIPPT (Insured Pirate Passthrough) bond.  In case ineededausername defaults on that debt, imsaguy must pay as much principal and interest (up to the current principal and interest due) as necessary back to the holders of GIPPT bonds. 
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This answer worries me. It just doesn't make sense like Vandroiy pointed out. No way to clarify this? I don't see how everyone is buying this, but not wondering why the hell anyone would offer this?!

This is a weak answer to a very good question by Vandroiy.  I wouldn't want to get screwed out of the insurance money by some "smart accounting" if/when pirate defaults.

TL;DR: There aren't 5k coins in escrow.

Well, I can't exactly say how as then everyone would copy INAU and the secret would be lost, but at the same time saying nothing is kind of lame xD
so I gave a half assed answer.
//DeaDTerra

The amount after the third party lender is not the full amount correct.
INAU bets that pirate will not default within the time where the deposit doesn't cover the full backing (after a couple of months with interest it will), If pirate defaults before the full amount is covered in the deposit then INAU will pay the difference, exactly the same as if IMSAguy defaults :)
//DeaDTerra

A additional 5000 BTC will be placed with HashKing, he will sign a similar contract. Hence INAU will have more then enough backing with third party lenders to back up the insurance :)
//DeaDTerra

Something is missing in the contract: the case of pirateat40 simply stopping his fund and reimbursing the principal. In this case, you should add that you will place a bid at face value for every bond. Right now, if pirateat40 choses to stop his operation without defaulting,  the bonds become worthless while you can keep all the invested money.

Also, it would be great to let people the possibility to buy out if the interet rates drop too much. For example, for a change of more of 0.5 points, you should place a bid at face value for every bond for at least two weeks.

Of course if pirate stops paying interest but he pays out the whole amount deposited with him. Then I will buy back the bond for 1 BTC each :)
I would ofc not keep the invested money if pirate stopped paying out, that would be silly. The face value of the bonds would still be 1 BTC and I would buy them back.

I can't keep ask walls up all the time, sorry. I think it's best if the market decided what the bonds are worth in case where pirate changes his rates.
To keep 5000 BTC on GLBSE for 2 weeks is simply not possible, or convenient.
//DeaDTerra

only 1700 Bonds left!
Go get them while you can :D
//DeaDTerra

Get you bonds today!, First dividend will go out on Wednesday :D
That's 2,5% in 3 days :)
only 1600 Bonds left!
//DeaDTerra

1400 bonds left :)
//DeaDTerra

hey guys!
only 3 hours and 28 minutes left until the dividend is going to be paid out!
So go get the last bonds while you can :D
Only 700 left!
//DeaDTerra

Dividend was paid out at 21:02, 0.025 BTC per bond!
//DeaDTerra

Greetings,

I would like to ask:

Since these bonds are essentially a 1 btc pass-through to pirate, are they always worth 1 btc?  If a buyer request a withdrawal is that allowed?  Specifically I am worried that if pirate were to drops his rate to say... 1% then you would correspondingly drop yours to .5% or so and then the market value of the bonds might drop to much lower than 1 btc.  I would prefer to issue a withdrawal at that point rather than lose face value.

Thanks-

+1

I will answer it like this.
1 BTC in pirate is worth 1 BTC on GLBSE once it's withdrawn. I can arrange for larger investors if they want to trade out. But I can't keep a bid wall up all the time.
If there's need for one, then I will place once. I am fair towards my investors as I am one of them ;)
But I can't promise I will always keep a bid wall, as I don't have the capital to sit and root on GLBSE, sorry.
//DeaDTerra

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-

That is correct then I will either ask nefario for a force buy back or place a ask wall to buy all of them back :)

I don't have any threshold but to withdraw from pirate, then transfer the funds to me then sending it to you after you transfered the shares to me, is just a hazzle okay. I would like to be able to offer this service for any amount, but my time is limited. So I won't say a limit, but keep that in mind :)
I am sure the bids will bounce up again after a couple of weeks of dividends, I think the bonds are worth hell of a lot more then they are currently, which is kind of sad to see :( You guys don't like the asset?

They are not dumb at all, there are no dumb answers :)
Thank you very kind of you :D
//DeaDTerra

The bonds are worth more than 1.2 BTC, by my math. The market is simply saturated. 1 BTC is a joke for them, because then there's 0 risk for the investor of a pirate default. Pirate defaults, I don't lose anything. And that is why I pulled out of YARR and won't be buying Goat's bond.

It is not zero risk.  If pirate defaults, you have to hope that ineedausername and imsaguy, who are both heavily invested in pirate, do not default on the insurance.

Remember this:

This is indeed something you must believe otherwise only 5% is risk free.
But it can't get much safer except 100% in a offline wallet.
I have not 1, not 2 but 3 people that need to default for the bonds to reduce in value and in that case you still get my 5% :)
//DeaDTerra

Right. However, I trust INAU more than usagi. It's rather simple to factor in "likelihood to obey the contract" into calculations. Besides, it's only 20 bucks.

1. It's always not locked up. This throws Vandroiy's entire argument out the window, mathematically.
2. GIPPT will profit if pirate does not default in 20 weeks. Therefore, GIPPT is essentially a bet against the consumer that pirate will not default. The consumer gets a win / win less scenario (they could have gotten more with direct pirate), and the issuer gets a win-lose scenario. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
3. Vandroiy is rather desperate for a pirate default. You should take this into account when reading his posts and always check his math.

Depositing money straight into pirate will profit if pirate does not default in 20 weeks.  I challenge anyone to outline a scenario that makes offering this asset better than simply investing in pirate without exposing investors to risk of default.  I PM'ed DeaDTerra two days ago with some questions about this asset and he has not yet responded.

Disclaimer: I currently hold ~20 shares of GIPPT.

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.

The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.

In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.

Sigh. ::) How about I have something tied to BTC? A freshly-minted VIP donator account? In any case, your point is irrelevant.
Again, this is irrelevant and does not disprove my earlier scenario in which this is profitable for the issuer.

What assets valued in btc are illiquid, besides fixed term loans? (which could easily carry some pirate exposure)  LOL @ VIP donator accounts, how do you plan to sell 100 of those with the user names already chosen?

It really doesn't matter, but there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in GLBSE securities which are valued in BTC. The alternative is that I keep my car and I'm short BTC. In that way, it's 2 gambles: the primary being that pirate doesn't default and thus I get a cut of investors' money, and the secondary being that if the primary loses, I can sell my car for more BTC than it was worth before I issued the asset. So, this scenario works with either assets valued in BTC *or* assets valued in USD with a short-BTC issuer.VIP donator accounts can change their names.

Ok.  Using a USD based asset and being short BTC would work.  Now if only INAU posted a picture of his $55k+ car and proof of a huge short position on BTC...

TIL that VIPs can change their name.  Even so, why would someone invest in 100 VIP accounts (which are hard to sell and unlikely to go up in value) and not pirate if they didn't think he would default in the near future.

The short position is the bond. INAU has never struck me as a poor guy, based on his BTC availability and the fact that a smart trader wouldn't put everything they have into BTC.

Can we please drop the silly example? It has no bearing on the argument.

The point of this bond is that the backing doesn't need to be stashed in an address or in escrow. The issuer gets to have their cake and eat it too.

Why would he pay 2.5% for money to invest in pirate if he had a bunch of btc available that he could invest himself.  Taking a 2.5% loan to invest in pirate is past putting "everything they have into BTC".

My original challenge still stands:
I would particularly like to hear from INAU or DeaDTerra.

Ok, here's where I get to step in.. you're spewing shit.  You need to get your facts straight and stop talking so authoritatively about other people's businesses, especially when you clearly don't know what the hell you're talking about.

EIEIO isn't exposed to Pirate.  Its a mining farm that does pretty well.  There are many, many people on this forum that have sold and either shipped to me or sold to me and met me in person.  I have on order with various enterprises a bunch more gear.  Go digging on the forums, its documented and timestamped.  In fact, ask Maged or Theymos to verify I haven't edited them anytime lately.

I /was/ involved in a PPT with 5 other people, but both INAU and I have sold our shares and are no longer invested in that.  That is also documented here on the forums.

I currently run a direct PPT, uninsured, meaning the only funds are funds that people explicitly give to me for that purpose.  In addition, I think its been about 98% that have been internal transfers at BS&T which means very little inflows from me on behalf of others into BS&T.

Thanks for the response imsaguy.  If EIEIO was more transparent about its operations I would have much more confidence in it.  The description (in addition to mining) "taking advantage of market arb opportunities and other btc related activities." and interest rate tiers/incentives reek of a pirate clone. You have stated you will release "full statement of accounts" by the end of the month, which should improve your credibility.  Feel free to PM or linke me proof of a large mining set up as well.

Assuming this bond is backed (in part) by a mining farm, I could still see a default scenario if the BTC price rose sharply and pirate defaulted, as mining farms are mostly valued in USD.

Why the hell would I pm it to you? Are you now the official arbiter of what is just and right?   I'd release it to the general public before I took the time to specifically pm it to you.  There have already been people that called me out on this before and they got shut down as equally fast with pictures and hashrates at pools.

Oh, and while the hardware itself might have USD value, it was all bought and paid for in bitcoin and that's how I document it.

I'm just a concerned investor who was going to invest 100s of BTC in this. 2.5%/week insured by some of the most trusted members sounded like a very good idea until I realized the issuers and insurers have no good reason to offer it.

ffs. I already outlined a scenario, which you have yet to put a hole in.

I don't understand your scenario.  I just reread the thread, and the example of having USD assets and being short BTC makes no sense to me.  This would lose out doubly if BTC price were to increase.

The value of the hardware will still be less in BTC if BTC prices rise, regardless of what was originally used to pay for it.

Yes. That is what a short is. It loses if BTC price rises, and it wins if BTC price falls. So one scenario is:
1. Issuer drives a nice car
2. Issuer is willing to bet that car on pirate not defaulting
3. Issuer wants to drive the car during the bet
4. Either:
4.a Issuer is willing to bet that if pirate defaults, BTC price will be lower than time of issue
4.b Issuer takes a "long" CFD so that if pirate defaults, issuer will have made money on the price rise

In this scenario:
1. If pirate does not default, issuer "has their cake and eats it too" by driving their car while making interest off of the net worth of the car. By 20 weeks, issuer is in the green and has made more than liabilities.
2. If pirate does default in less than 20 weeks:
2.a Under 4.a:
2.a.i if price has risen, issuer loses out. They sell their car, pay back the principle, and buy a cheaper car. Bad bet, tough break
2.a.ii if price has fallen, issuer sells their car, pays back the principle, and buys a cheaper car
2.b Under 4.b:
2.b.i if price has risen, issuer has gained money via the CFD and interest. Issuer sells car, pays back principal, and buys a cheaper car. Alternatively, the CFD + interest covers losses and the issuer comes away with a win.
2.b.ii if price has fallen, the issuer has made lost money on the CFD and gained money on interest. Issuer sells their car, pays back the principle, and buys a cheaper car. Bad bet, tough break.

There. Smart accounting isn't that hard to come by. I think imsaguy (or INAU) knows pirate in person (or is pirate :P), so he's willing to make the bet on pirate. As for the bet on BTC's price, plenty of people do that. In fact, if you own any BTC, you're taking a non-leveraged long position. This asset is just a convenient bundle.

4a: If the price rises too much, the issuer cannot pay the insurance by selling their car. (see my original example)  The bond is not 100% insured if the issuer is making bets on BTC price and potentially will not be able to pay the insurance.
4b: I'm not sure  where this magical CFD comes from.  If the issuer is long BTC, they should just use those BTC to invest with pirate directly.

This is the essence of a short. If the price falls drastically, the issuer will make a killing. Hopefully, the issuer's car or summer home, lakefront property, island, oil rig, whatever is several times the total issued value. If the issuer is prudent, he will liquidate his assets and buy back the bond when he reaches the point that a further rise in price would result in the inability to pay the insurance.
Surely you can use the search feature of this forum?
[WTB] 1000-1500 BTC Contract for Difference (I'm taking long)  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96084.0)
[WTB] [FILLED] 1000 BTC Contract for difference (I'm taking the short position)  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85636.0) (so if meni's short was filled, someone obviously took the long)
The "magical" CFD could be negotiated in private, agreed on these forums like has been done before, or done on an external platform.
The long is a hedge. The issuer, not taking a CFD, is inherently short BTC in this scenario. The long is a way to neutralize or reverse that position. Luckily for the issuer, you can't get short-squeezed with a CFD.

It's evident that there has been some failure in communication if I didn't make clear that the long is a hedge. Furthermore, your statement assumes that the issuer actually has any BTC at all; using the USD-asset scenario, the issuer doesn't need to have any BTC on-hand. This shows that you're missing the "have your cake and eat it too" or "bet your summer home and live in it too" part, which is crucial. I apologize if my wording is confusing.

All bonds have been sold (they sold out a day ago but I forgot to mention it xD)
So all the 5000 bonds are now live and on the market :D
//DeaDTerra

If I have one chunk of money, borrow another, and invest one each into "EIEIO" and "BS&T", how is it a "Pirate pass through" any more than a "Mystical mining pass through"?

EIEIO must pay >2.5% weekly for this to be profitable. That alone makes it far too suspicious to qualify as insurance.

Does this mean I get your seal of approval :D
YAY!!!!!!!
//DeaDTerra

It appears we need a GIPPT FUD thread too. It also appears that you have neglected to read my scenario. This bond is a bet, and if the issuer loses out on said bet, that's his problem. He does, however, have a lot more rep than you, and he seems rather qualified.

Me and INAU is going to discuss how we will adjust the interest rate as pirate has changed his rate to 5%
I will get back to you guys once we have taken a decision, Dividends should be paid out as normal today.
//DeaDTerra

the dividend is delayed. I will pay it out once I get home in 45 min
//DeaDTerra

Hmm, even though I suspect these bonds will have their rates lowered to ~1.8%, I think pirate lowering his rates will actually increase the value of these bonds.  I suspect more people will be wanting to sell the uninsured passthroughs and investing in insured ones.

I assume the rate stays the same, because the 2.5% is the interest from EIEIO, so Pirate lowering rates shouldn't affect our dividend.

The Rates will be lowered, as according to the contract I have the right to do so whenever pirate changes his rate.
So from this week onwards Gamma Insured Pirate Pass Through will pay 1.5% a week.
As before the bond will be insured and the payouts guaranteed as long as pirate keeps paying them :)
//DeaDTerra

So a 40% decrease in interest rates for a 29% decrease in pirate's rate is "appropriate"? 1.78% sounds more appropriate to me.

I will discuss it tonight further with INAU when he comes online tonight, it's not final just yet.
//DeaDTerra

After talking things over with INAU the new rate will be 1,8% a week :)
//DeaDTerra

Great Thanks :D

Pirate has closed his BS&T. What will happen now with owners of GIPPT shares? Will you buy back all shares for 1 BTC each?

The shares will be bought back for 1 BTC independent on if Pirate defaults or not.
//DeaDTerra

Good to hear! Stupid noob question: do we need to do anything (put up shares sale at 1 btc) or will the buyback be automatic?

I'm assuming each bond will recieve interest also, so they should be bought back for ~1.018 each

This will not be the case unless pirate pays out a last dividend. As the interest rate in itself is not insured.
//DeaDTerra

I'm sorry to say, but I'm afraid it was a big mistake to invest in this bond.

If Pirate starts paying back on Monday, we will get our money much later as the people that invested directly with Pirate (without insurance). Pirate's paying back by account-age, so if you invested with BitcoinMax you will be one of the first, but with GIPPT it can take up to two weeks according to Pirate. After that, there will be some additional delay, because it has to be transfered to GLBSE. It seems we'll really be the last in line, and this is a big disadvantage while prices are dropping because of cashouts.

If Pirate decides not to pay back, we will also not see our money anytime soon. I expected INAU to start liquidating immediately after the news of the closing, but he has done nothing at all. The escrow funds are still with imsaguy, and INAU hasn't even requested them back yet. Even if he decides Monday that it's finally time to request a withdrawal, it will take at least two weeks, because he has to give imsaguy two weeks notice. After that, there will be some additional delay, because everything has to be transfered to GLBSE. So again, it seems we'll really be the last in line compared to the other insured bonds, and this is a big disadvantage as we don't know how the market will react to a default.

So in both scenario's, it seems GIPPT is the worst possible option. I really hope DeadTerra and INAU take their responsibility and buy us out this weekend, but it seems its just not gonna happen anytime soon.

Those worst possible options assume a default.  We do not know Pirate's financial situation, but we know that the DeadTerra is a respectable and honest member of the community.  INAU also has his reputation to protect.  You read the prospectus, you knew the risks and how the process would go.  Let's let this play out and let our man do his thing.

No, as explained above, the worst possible option for GIPPT holders is the case that he does NOT default.




In the prospectus there isn't any timeframe mentioned how fast the pay out will take place. Even if's after 1 year from now, it would still not violate the contract in any way, but would that be fair? I asked DeadTerra to agree on a timeframe, but he has no idea about that. Obviously I was a bit too optimistic when thinking it would be a couple of days, but anything more than two weeks just doesn't seem fair.

The main reason why I'm unhappy with the situation is that I tried to get out GIPPT long before this whole situation. I sold as much as I could, but at no point there were any substantial amounts of bids, so I'm still stuck with most the shares. The only other option was to sell under IPO price. And now Pirate is closed, I'm still stuck with them for weeks/months, since I cannot get any guarantee about a timeframe.

I can see that the delay can be a big problem for those who wish to cash out directly, but I disagree if you meant to say that for that reason GIPPT has turned out to be one of the worst insured PPTs. Actually, it has turned out to be one of the better.
For other insured PPTs you paid an insurance premium of 50-60% of the face value of each bond, with GIPPT you paid none. This is one of the main reasons I chose GIPPT in the first place.
With GIPPT you will receive the same amount of BTC that you put in if Pirate defaults . For other bonds, you will receive 1 BTC for each 1.5 BTC (+/-) you put in. Since Pirate defaulted so soon after insured PPTs became fashionable, you would not have had the time to profit from the higher interest rates these other bonds offered.

So I don't think you can say that it was a big mistake to invest in this bond, compared to other insured PPTs.

The only thing that worries me personally with the delay is that I won't be able to relax 100% before the money are in my account. I now there are reputable people behind this bond (that's why I bought them), but this being DramaCoin and all, you can never be too sure...  :)

Pirate hasn't defaulted.

Sorry, I meant to say closed shop the wrong word came out. I'm probably brain washed by spending too much time on this forum...

I do see your point. I've got no intention of selling the coins just yet so it's not a problem for me, but I can see how it could be for others.

When will the insurance funds be requested?  All signs point to a default as of now.  If we are not payed dividends Wednesday then I would consider the funds "defaulted" and insurance should be payed out.

Good question. When is it considered a default?

From the contract:

Each bond has a face value of 1 BTC and gives the holder the right to a 2.5% interest rate per week (0.025 BTC per bond and week). This interest will be paid as a dividend once a week on Wednesday at 21:00 (GMT+1).

In case of Pirate default INeedAUsername will pay 95% of the bonds face value to the bond holder, while DeaDTerra will pay the other 5%.


Looks pretty clear cut to me.  There are only 2 possible "states" of the bond.

Non-defaulted: we receive 2.5% per week

Defaulted: we receive the insurance money. 

It would be reasonable to assume a few days or so to obtain the insurance money, but if the dividends are not payed Wednesday the bond should be assumed to be "defaulted" and the insurance funds should be on the way

Hi DeadTerra,

Can you please let us know when you will buy back the bonds? Goat is already doing it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98420.80

Thank you.

A default is missing any payment or return of principal.  Pirate missed his payments yesterday.  The bond should be paid out. This will be a good test of pirate exposure of this bonds backers.

Has there been a default?

Yes.

Under what terms? Did Deadterra not pay interest last Wednesday?

I judge the situation the following, Pirate has said he will start payouts and that they should take a week or two right now he's one day late, from what we know. This doesn't necessarily mean that he has defaulted, hence I would like to wait a bit until the situation becomes more clear.
The bond pays out 1 BTC if pirate defaults and 1 BTC if pirate pays back, so far he has done neither.
//DeaDTerra

Wednesday it will be a default, if we do not receive a dividend. I suggest you read the contract again. You can return our funds and if the Pirate is paying you recover your BTC.

There's a difference between "will be" and "has defaulted".  Perhaps you should read the question closer.

It also says we have the right to change the interest rate, right now pirate is not paying out any interest yet he has not defaulted. He has not failed to pay interest when he said he would, he has just stopped interest for now, until he has paid off all his investors. The difference is massive, the default is no yet clear and as Pirate is sticking around it seems like he's going to pay back his investors.
//DeaDTerra

You are right. Allow me to rephrase: When will we get the insurance, if you can't make Wednesday payment? Can you cover the payment from your pocket?

I'm waiting for someone with a finance background to step in here, but I thought that missing a scheduled payment is considered default.

http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/default (http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/default)

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/default2.asp#ixzz24CSbcFRu (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/default2.asp#ixzz24CSbcFRu)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance))

The contract of GIPPT states it will buy back bonds at face value in case of pirate default.  Pirate has already defaulted.

Please don't try to play hardballer with me, I wrote the contract I know what it says.
Now people calm down, When a pirate default is obvious and we know he's going to buy back the bonds.
We will start liquidation of capital to prepare for such a event but right now, there is no evidence of a default.
//DeaDTerra

DeaDTerra in other words, you can cut the dividend to 0 and never return our funds, is this what you mean?

The terms of the contract are based on a Pirate default not a Deadterra default.

Now you are placing words into my mouth which I do not like :)
I am saying that we are going to pay the insurance once there's evidence for a default or pirate pays out.
//DeaDTerra

So which evidence is good enough for you?

Pirate hasn't defaulted technically.  He paid interest as a reinvested payment.  If the fund chooses to fund that out of pocket, that is the right of the fund and you have no claim.

But pirate has not failed to pay a scheduled interest, as he announced he was closing down last week.
Though I understand everyones concern and as I was saying capital is being liquidated to be able to buyback the bonds as soon as possible.
But I would prefer waiting until there's evidence of a default.
//DeaDTerra

I guess he will never default then, he can just rack up interest forever.  ???

I agree with this.

One day delay is not good enough, I want to wait a couple of days and if no payment has been paid out then there's evidence of a default as he failed to payout when he scheduled that he was going to do so.
Meanwhile we are liquidating capital to prepare for the buyback.
//DeaDTerra

I'm saying don't be an ass.  Obviously, at some point, he'd be adjudged to have defaulted if he doesn't process withdrawals but the whole "Pirate's defaulted" after only a few days of announcing a wind down is a bit much.

Thanks.  I'm trying to be as reasonable about this as possible, to all sides involved.  If pirate really is leaving with no intentions of coming back, then by all means, the insurance money will get used.

Okay!
I am starting to feel like a bad guy over here, which I do not want!
Hence me and INAU will pay the dividend out of our pockets for now until we can do either of:
A, There's evidence or it's obvious that pirate will default or that he will not pay out within a reasonable time limit (one-two weeks)
B, Pirate pays us back.
Then we will buy back the bonds.
Is everyone happy with this deal?
//DeaDTerra

So if the Wednesday payment is missed, can you guys please give us a clear timeline? You can do it Wednesday, no rush.

Thank you.

Yes, I'm happy.

This violates the terms of your contract, but investors will probably be ok with it.  However, it does raise some doubts about the availability of the insurance money.

Well, if you go back to the contract that INAU and I signed, I do have some time to come up with the coins.  After all, having 3750 coins sitting in a cold storage wallet and then paying 9% interest on it is rather stupid.  I used those coins to pay off/buy out investors in EIEIO.  I've already made a post seeking potential interested investors.  Many have been asking when EIEIO would have more availability and whenever there is some, it fills stupid quick, so I don't imagine having too much difficulty coming up with the coins.

Please elaborate.  There hasn't been a default and everyone is getting paid as usual.  What's the issue?

There has been a default.  Pirate has defaulted.  That does not mean he will not eventually pay back.

Defaulted how?  Because he's trolling bitlane back?  The fact that he's winding down and is taking all of the week that he announced it would take?

A default is when he doesn't pay a scheduled interest or doesn't intent to pay back. Which he has done neither. This weeks interest was descheduled last week when he announced that he's closing up and there are yet any evidence that he doesn't intend to pay back. Hence not a default.
//DeaDTerra

Pirate has defaulted on bitlane, and thus far only bitlane. I don't see how this affects anyone else, so for the purpose of this PPT he has not defaulted.

DeaDTerra, the way you put it, Pirate will never default.
On the other hand, for me as a bond holder as long as I get the weekly 2.5%, I do not care about the pirate.

Pirate would have defaulted if he scheduled a payment and then didn't pay it and had no intent of paying it. Right now he defaults if it's obvious that he is not going to pay back or won't do it within a reasonable time limit. I think this definition might not be perfect but considering the situation it will do. Next time I will have to be more clear on this as a default can be many things.
//DeaDTerra

I partially agree with you. I would say if we can't get to an agreement to ask Patrick or Kluge to mediate this dispute.

Thank you.

Though paying dividends until a default is clear (no payment within 1-2 weeks), I hope most people can agree upon?
//DeaDTerra

I'd say we go with Nanotube.  He's already deciding the outcome of the bet with no complaints from either side, it would seem only natural to me.

I do agree with this.

No problem with Nanotube.

I understand why people would like their money as fast as possible. But indeed I also think pirate hasn't defaulted yet.
To me he is just in the fase of returning the funds. He told us it could take upto a week. If the payment is still delayed after that I would start to expect an liquidation of the assets.

If you bought this share you put your trust into DeaDTerra to do the 100% payback. So if you don't trust him now to handle in good faith, I don't see why you would buy the shares in the first place. I do agree with the planned dividend payment. If I remember correctly pirate also stated he would pay the interest when paying back the funds so if all goes like planned you wouldn't take a hit on the payment.

I agree on this too. I trust that you guys will not run away with our money, so as long as you're paying dividends I'm in no rush having shares bought back.  :)

Sorry for the delayed dividend, the Bitcoins are on their way to GLBSE but due to their reboot of the wallet it might take a while :(
//DeaDTerr

Okay,
I just wanted to let you guys know that today a 2,5% dividend will be paid for the interest rate.
Then tomorrow 1745 BTC out of the 5000 will be paid back as a dividend, this will be the first out of two payments. The second one will come once the third party lenders pays out the deposits that has been placed with them.
The reason why I am announcing this a head of time is so that the share holders knows that after this payment the face value of the bond goes down to 0.651% (0.651 BTC per shares), after the second payment the bond become useless and will be locked and removed from GLBSE :)
//DeaDTerra
*side note, there still seem to be a delay with the GLBSE deposit, I will send the transcation and hopefully it will come through*

Great news, glad to see a partial payment.  :)

edit: Partial payment to start with...

^ I love this solution to everyone's problems :)

A bug has made so that our dividend was pulled from my account but it was not paid to the investors and not recorded properly.
I am working closely with Nefario to solve this issue :)

I also want to apologize as it seems like there was some miscommunication between me and INAU, it was 1745 BTC that would be paid back (1905 in total with the dividend).
So 1745 will be paid once the GLBSE nonsense is solved, then the rest will come later on.
//DeaDTerra

After much delay, some my fault some due to the GLBSE down time.
1850 BTC is on it's way to GLBSE to be paid out as a dividend. This will make the bonds be worth 63% of 0.63 in face value :)
The 125 BTC that was suppose to be paid as a dividend disappears into the cloud due to a bug on GLBSE, we are getting the 125 BTC back and once we have gotten it back we will pay it out.
This was one of the reasons GLBSE was down yesterday.
//DeaDTerra
(6 confirms until dividend :D)

Great.

Thanks all of you.

I think someone fucking with my, now my client is fucking up...
seems like it doesn't transmit the transaction to the network properly.
Oh well I have sent it, hopefully it will hit the network soon :)
//DeaDTerra

If you give the TX ID, anyone can follow its journey.

They are sent to this address
http://blockchain.info/address/1BbMeUzdfuLpmHQBrZhgbCB13UyyH9XRkp
Here's the transaction id
9308e0ce02e5cb58f7eb369ea9a9c8b9be0fe91be94118d5b1e8b463dd96104b
//DeaDTerra

Looks to be a payment in but it just for 0.00001  ???
Hope it ins't an other bug.

2012-08-25 15:22   0.05   5000   0.00001

Nope I tested so that the dividends worked :)
//DeaDTerra

Smart thinking!  ;D

The dividend has been paid out :)
The rest of the payment should arrive sometime next week.
//DeaDTerra

Received 37% of total shares value. Waiting for the rest to arrive.
Thanks;)

Am I wrong or Pirate declared default? What happens now?

Update.
The depositors will return the backings on the 9th of September and the 28th of September respectively after these two payment all of the GIPPT shares will have been paid back 1 BTC.
How much we will receive during each payback I do not know yet.
//DeaDTerra

are you saying all shares are worth 1 btc?

No as 37% was paid out they are worth 63% or 0.63 BTC per share :)
//DeaDTerra

well poop lol thanks for the quick response

Sorry if I caused any confusion which lead to a purchase xD.
No problems.
//DeaDTerra

Good to now. Thanks for the update :)

Just checking before my clicky finger went crazy lol

I'd just like to post here that I'm working with JD to return the deposit.  This whole pirate mess seems to be causing liquidity issues everywhere, even with things not directly tied to pirate.  Please be patient with him, as its me who is holding things up a bit.

105 BTC has been paid out, as INAU managed to liquidate some more Capital :)
39.1% has been paid back so far.
//DeaDTerra

I suppose the contract never states when the insurance money has to be paid out.  The issuers can just sit around and buy back bonds at less than their face value from investors wanting to get out.

What a joke.

Here, I'll quote the relevant post for you:

Dust is still right that the contract stated no term. To quote another relevant post:


But it didn't. First the buy-back would be within a week, then it became two seperate payouts divided over two weeks, and now it already has become 4 different payouts which will take 6 weeks. So what terms in the contract prevents him from introducing another delay after that? Dust is completely right.

I really lost my confidence in GIPPT. I know DeadTerra can't be blamed that INAU refuses to pay his debt, but I thought that imsaguy being the escrow would protect us from such a scenario.

At first there would be 5000 in escrow, then after I bought the bonds pre-IPO, it was changed to 3750 in escrow, and now it turns out there is much less than that available, because the backing with imsaguy was used to back other bonds/insurances at the same time. We were never informed of that, and imsaguy never kept his promise to announce the withdrawal request.

I know DeadTerra tries hard to get our money back, and I still have trust that he will, nonetheless I will never invest in one of his IPO's again.

I am sorry about the delays, IMSAguy has claimed the responsibility for it due to that all of this Pirate mess has made it harder for him to liquidate then he initially thought, hence the delay. INAU doesn't refuse to pay the debt he is simply waiting on the backing to be liquidated, I know it's frustrating but we are paying back as fast as we can. A small payout (a couple of %), should be paid out today or tomorrow and we will keep paying out as much and as fast as possible until all the debt has been paid back :)

3750 was with IMSAguy while about 5-6k was with HK, this was enough to cover his backing with us as well as his other contracts, it's not a matter of that he can't pay back because he doesn't have the capital it's simply a liquidity issue causing this delays.

I am sad to hear that, I am doing all in my power to get this payback fast and smooth, but as one that has had a look at the market recently will know, there's tons of fear and panic in the market which is making liquidating even harder then it usually is. IMSAguy and HK are running long term investment plans, and I am pretty sure they didn't plan for Pirate to default so soon, but unfortunate he did and this has left us with this mess :(

Sorry if I let you down.
//DeaDTerra

I confirm that part of the difficulty is on my end.  I used the coins to reduce my overhead by buying out some investors that were on a higher dividend rate.  Part of that required me to pay a small penalty.  Had I known I'd be returning these coins less than 1 month later, I never would have taken them in the first place.  To date, just over 40% of my obligation to INAU has been retired.  I'm working as quickly as possible to retire the rest.

Understandable. If you insure an obvious ponzi, whod have thought you might actually have to pay out  ::)

I want to give some big creds to everyone involved on the insurance side INAU,IMSAguy and HK have all acted very professionally and had the investors best in mind at all times. If we take the situation into consideration they have done a brilliant job, who here could say that they would stay and pay 5000 BTC in debt after only a couple of weeks of payouts from Pirate. Not many.
Big thank you to everyone involved :D
//DeaDTerra

Update: 45.37% of my 4750 BTC obligation has now been paid.  200 BTC is sitting in Ludvig's GLBSE wallet, ready to send out, and it will probably happen today.

Did this get paid?

No.

Sorry guys, I have had a cold and have been super busy so it slipped my mind thank for reminding me it's now on it's way to GLBSE. It will be paid out in 6 confirms.
//DeaDTerra

200 BTC has been paid in dividends :D
//DeaDTerra

So how much is each share worth now? .6?

Looks to me like .431/share has been paid out, so it's now worth .569 btc/share.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.msg1165301#msg1165301


Vandroiy was right again:

Am I the only one who put only few % of owned funds in pirate's ship? Last 2 weeks everything is #@%^#% Hope I'm wrong.

We are currently working actively right now to reach a deal with both IMSAguy and HK. Right now it seems like we will have all the IMSAguy funds within a couple of days while HK still remains unclear.
//DeaDTerra

Both imsaguy and hashking are giving 3 years as an estimate.  Will INAU step up and cover his obligations, or will everyone blame each other, wait 3 years, and buy the bonds back for a few bitcents each from impatient investors?

Note:  < 30 shares of GIPPT for trading is my only exposure to the currently failing lending/scamming cartel, so I'm picking on this thread more.

I've said if things wound down, it could take up to 3 years.  The people invested in EIEIO have been supportive (albeit begrudgingly) and  opted to push forward, which means I expect things to bounce back much quicker.  To date, I've resolved 2/3 of my obligation to INAU and that's what you've been receiving over the last  week or two.  I have ongoing conversations with some parties to resolve the remaining sum here in the near future.

x-post from GBF
"I just got a very angry email threatening to drive to my home and take his/her money from me if I didn't send them. I don't take lightly to threats, and I sure as help don't every want anything to do with the person once I found out who it was. Threats are not okay on any level, This is why I didn't want to give out my ID, I have been nice to you guys, I have been fair and I have been honest. I have always done my best and I hoped that you trusted me, things have been hard but we have gotten out easier them most people look at HK, look at IMSAguy, the reason why we are not in the shitter is because I told you the whole story and we could avoid further liquidity squeeze, if you don't agree with my decisions THEN FACE ME, I am here, I am always here. I am open for disscusion please do question my decisions, do question my logic and morals, but never ever try to threaten me again.

There will be no weekly report tonight, I am no longer in the mood for it... some of the details is already in the log book, more details will be given tomorrow in the weekly report.
//DeaDTerra"
I am not sure if the person is mad about GIPPT or GBF but the same message is true, if you want something come face me don't sit and send threatening emails, come at me with a intelligent discussion instead.

Me and INAU are now working with some of the bigger investors in GIPPT, to reach private deals to make sure that this goes as fast and smooth as possible.
If you have several hundred GIPPT shares then please contact me and we can try to reach a private settlement :)
//DeaDTerra

What will happen with smaller investors? I have 19 GIPPT shares I'd like to liquidate.
Thanks :)

We are working with settling in debt, if you are interested then sure :P but it will be hard to try to settle such a small amount in debt :8
//DeaDTerra

So are you trying to make some deals with the big investors and pay off the small once?
Have 50 shares myself and that is quite a bit of money for me  :-\

I am trying to settle in debt aka non liquid assets, for the bigger investors hence speeding up the payback of everyone :)
I understand that and I am looking out for all the investors not just the big once.
//DeaDTerra

Bumping. Any update from ineededausername?

Greetings,

Any updates?  This has been on my books for so long now...

Thanks-

Do we have any recourse for the people who haven't held up their end of the insurance policy?  Seems like Terra did a good job, and paid out his portion right away.  What do we do if this drags out forever?

Hey guys sorry that I didn't update faster I was at the Bitcoin conference in London, I had a great time ^^
The current update is as follows we are still working with the depositors to try to solve this through a thrid party investor that can bail them out/buy the debt, but right now it's not looking that good.
We will keep working on it, and it seems like payments are starting to slowly be paid out (by HK), and IMSAGuy is going to pay propotionally.
For those people who would rather take their bet on IMSAGuy debt we are offering a trade in of GIPPT shares for IMSAGuy and HK debt, in which we offer +10% the value of the shares in return.

I can't really say much more then we are working on it and I am terribly sorry for all of this bullshit, we will keep working on it from our front and I am sure the depositors are doing the same.
//DeaDTerra

It is sad that it actually benefits debtors to prolong their repayment, as it gives them an opportunity to settle for a lesser amount.

By the terms of the contract, INAU must pay the insurance, independent of the scammers he lent to (hashking and imsaguy) paying back. 

I also refused it because it would unfair to all of the other unpaid investors who have remained quiet.

Additionally, I have offered to buy a chunk of your 10k ASICMINER shares at close to market value to enable you to pay your debts.

Interesting. So Imsaguy has the funds he just doesnt want to sacrifice his shares....thats not showing good faith to pay back insurance contracts.

10k ASICMINER shares won't cover the insurance.

Imsaguy only owed BTC3750 to ineededausername, the other part of the insurance was covered by deposits with hashking.  Imsaguy claimed on irc to have paid back 75% of it, which makes sense because hashking has probably paid back much less of his part if any.  If this is true, he only owes BTC937.5, and 10k ASICMINER is worth about BTC1100.

Ah, I stand corrected. Note to self: Read the whole thread before posting stupid things.

Thanks Dust.

So what is the plan? Any timeframe for the payback yet?

The plan right now is to keep the conversation with the depositors and settle anyone that would like to trade their GIPPT shares for debt. We are offering +10% if you take IMSAGuy or HK debt :)
There's no timeframe atm as it depends on the depositors.
//DeaDTerra

This. Has INAU stated any (good) reason for not fulfilling his obligation?

Thank you, but no thank you. I believe that you (DT) will have a greater chance of success recovering this debt on my behalf, than I would myself. I trust that you will work hard on doing this regardless of how many take you up on this offer.
This situation really makes "100% insurance" a laughing-stock and I am beginning to feel fed up. I must admit I'm beginning to feel hesitant to ever invest with you again, though I realize it is not directly your fault.
Or maybe more correctly:
If everything is repaid time will pass and all will be forgiven and forgotten.
Otherwise it will never be forgiven nor forgotten.

I can agree with Rockefoten. We, investors, as a whole, don't need to care about problems, we just require 100% face value back. I also agree that you have bigger chances to recover debt then we have.

INAU has not posted on this forum since Sept. 8th, despite being online frequently.

Bumping for visibility, coins still not paid.

What kind of assurance do we get that our debt will be paid off before IMSAGuy's or HK's other debts? 

Is GIPPT still paying out dividends? (Even after pirate defaulted?)

Why should INAU be given preferential treatment over other creditors?

Speaking of INAU, why has he not posted in this thread recently?

INAU is not running, he has not left and he does not plan to default.
I talked to him yesterday and he was still determined to payback, with a slow and steady payback plan.
Unfortunately the whole depositor scandal is slowing us down as it's a slow process of paybacks, but rest assure that INAU has no intention of defaulting.
//DeaDTerra

No.
INAU has defaulted
hashking has defaulted
imsaguy has defaulted

This is the second instance in this thread I have corrected you on the definition of default.

DT, you should encourage imsaguy to sell some of the 10,000 ASICMINER shares he claims to have.

I think is time for us to report this asset to Nefario for not fulfilling his contractual obligations. DeaDTerra should have all his assets on GLBSE frozen until this matter is closed.
You can send your message at support@glbse.com.

These are very bad times. Even insured securities are a risk.. :-(

They have failed to meet their deadlines for payments yes, but all have a intention to pay back.
I will talk to IMSAGUY about it, and I have had a open line of communication with the two depositors and the insurers, we are working on solving it but it's moving slow.
Another dividend will go out today, as INAU has liquidated some of the assets so he can pay out another portion of his debt.

//DeaDTErra

I am sure that James is aware of my situation, if he's not please do inform him.
I have broken no contract, nor have I broken any promise.
There is still plans to pay back, it's just going slow, now that is not my fault.
It's not my debt it's INAUs, my debt has already been paid off. The Depositors are then in second hand the people that broke their contract as they failed to pay within the time frame they setup.

1. The debt is not mine it's INAU, I am simply a middle man that's offering 5% of the insurance. Which I have paid.
2. I have no private assets on GLBSE, all belong to other investors. To cease these assets would be to steal from one investor and give it to another, it would simply not be right. Especially when the debt is not even mine.
3.To freeze my other assets on GLBSE aka my GBF account and my GSDPT, would not help at all. It has nothing to do with this situation and would only hurt the community even more.

Please point out where I have broken the contract and why you should freeze my assets.
//DeaDTerra

Dividend paid, due to the recent clearing of pirate assets from GLBSE, I am not sure if it actually reached the share holder or how much it became per share.
Can someone please check for me :)
//DeaDTerra

2.2080185    GIPPT    2012-09-25 04:18:41

I have 19 GIPPT shares, so that's 0.1162115 per share if I'm not mistaken.

Great :-)
seems like the dividend worked even though the asset was delisted.
//DeaDTerra

Can somebody work out the total principal repaid so far as dividends? I have not held the shares for the whole time to be able to work it out from my records.

DeadTerra, could you possibly put up a spreadsheet for us to see what has been paid back when and what % of the principle is remaining?

Okay will do, I first want another confirm of the latest dividend as I was unable to get the data due to GLBSE removing the asset from trade.
//DeaDTerra

Dividends:
5.9267865   GIPPT      2012-09-25 04:18:42

I hold 51 shares of GIPPT, so 5.9267865/51 = 0.1162115 BTC/share as dividend.

Also I'm back in action and WTF was going on here - just left for (not even) 2 months and suddenly pirate defaults, mining breaks through 3 million diff, BTC is worth over 12 USD, people bitch about GLBSE more than ever and so on... :o

Yeah, a lot has happened.  Welcome back.  It seems like tons of drama, but in the end, it will be a good thing.  People are learning hard-learned lessons and basic financial concepts that will help them in the long-run.

I've got it in a spreadsheet, here you go:


That leaves 1 - .5472115 = .4527885 btc/shr to be repaid.

BTW: how do you get tables to show up right on this forum?  >:(

It's tricky. Quote my post.

Apple	Bet	Cat
Dank	Einstein	Free

[table]
[tr][td]Apple[/td][td]Bet[/td][td]Cat[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Dank[/td][td]Einstein[/td][td]Free[/td][/tr]
[/table]

It has been over a month since pirate defaulted and only about half of the coins have been returned.

Yes that's what the depositors told us and the dates that was given to us in the deal we made with the depositors.
They failed to deliver unfortunately, which meant we couldn't payout.
//DeaDTerra

Interestingly, according to the contract between imsaguy and INAU, imsaguy must repay all GIPPT investors if INAU defaults.  INAU is clearly in default.

Why do you say that INAU has defaulted?
I am in contact with both Nick (IMSAGuy) and INAU.
//DeaDTerra

DeaDTerra and I have vastly different definitions of default, as can be observed at multiple instances in this thread.  I consider imsaguy, hashking and INAU to be in default as they have failed to repay their obligations within a reasonable timeframe, and have missed deadlines agreed upon during the repayment process.

Also, what happened to this?

Option A was satisfied.
Hence we stopped paying dividends.

Okay, Well I have talked to nick and he is not letting INAU sell off or withdraw his deposit with him until he has paid back GIPPT/if INAU runs the debt will be re written to the GIPPT share holders.

As said before If all these three people were to default then I would still pay my 5% which I have done.
Now I am still talking to Nick and INAU even though they have defaulted by your definition, they have not run away or abandoned the payback process.

//DeaDTerra

First, the contract is between INAU and myself.  Its technically up to the two of us to enforce.

Second, I agree that the part that you bolded is the relevant clause.


The debt is the collateral.  There wasn't a timeline for the repayment of that debt in the case that INAU defaults.   I have paid and continue to pay on this.

This is indeed the case.
//DeaDTerra

Any new news about new payouts ??

With all the glbse trouble Is there a new plan to fix the payout. We still need to get paid almost half the money of the 100% garantied payout.
Thanks

I will do my best to honor the contract, it's to early to say how and it's mostly up to how James fixes this.
But I will do my best to ensure the contract is honored.
//DeaDTerra

Any updates here?

This is not a fund :)
It's a bond, huge difference!
I am still in contact with both INAU and IMSAGUY and I talked to them a couple of days ago. The whole GLBSE has slowed down the whole process further but the recovery of the coins are still going forward.
//DeaDTerra

How many more coins have been recovered in the mean time?

Not being able to immediately pay the debt back to bondholders doesn't mean you should stop collecting it and holding it in the mean time... I'd suggest you name an address, sign a statement with it's private key and instruct INAU to pay back money there in the mean time until GLBSE (maybe?) releases the needed info.

About 400 coins has been recovered and about 1000 shares has been bought back by trading debt. (The amount bought back is a estimate as I don't have the actual numbers).
That's a good idea right now both IMSAGUY and INAU has instructions to send any recovered BTC to me.
//DeaDTerra

http://blog.glbse.com/issuers-being-given-shareholder-lists

I don't understand why this has to be done slowly? Decent news at the least.

He's doing it manually, apparently the script idea isn't working for some reason, that's why it's taking a while.
//DeaDTerra

How much have you collected since the last dividend and how much debt is still outstanding?

I have collected about 430 Bitcoins,
I can't remember the exact amount as I don't have the share count, but 800-1000 BTC was still missing.
//DeaDTerra

Great to hear you're still following up and (slowly but surely...) honoring the contract.

I have honored my part of the contract from the start.
My part has been paid back and I made it clear from the start that I am not responsible for the other parties holding their part of the contract.
But this doesn't mean I will do my best to make sure they will.
//DeaDTerra

Any news here from GLBSE for the shareholders list? Cant seem to find any reports on new lists being issued to anyone expect gigaVPS...

Good to see you already collected 430 BTC.  :)

No, no news yet.
Though I have been in contact with both Imsaguy and INeedAUsername and both are still around and both tend to hold up their part of the agreement.
Indeed :)
//DeaDTerra

Did you receive a shareholders list from Nefario?

Thanks.

No I have not received the list yet.
//DeaDTerra

Are you in contact with Nefario? He answers questions very fast lately.

Just wondering if you have a full list yet and plans to do a payout  ;)

Yep list has been received and I will be listing on BitFunder later on in the week :)
//DeaDTerra

Any news about this BitFunder listing? Would really like to own soms shares again so we can do a small payout.

Yes sorry about the delay, I have been busy getting GSDPT up and running.
Once I have gotten that asset completly listed, I will start with GIPPT :)
It shouldn't be more then a week.
//DeaDTerra

We are now registered on Bitfunder.com
https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.IPPT
If you already have BitFunder registered with your GIPPT email address, just log in and click on Claim GLBSE Assets.
//DeaDTerra

Great I successfully claimed my shares. Hope the rest will do it fast so we can get a small next payment  :)

So what do we receive for each share?

gippt - [verb]

1) To contractually promise guarantee deposits, but when required to make good on this guarantee, fail to pay in a timely manner, if ever.

The investors were gippt by ineededausername, imsaguy and hashking.

I am still in contact with Imsaguy and Ineedausername, and they have asured me they still intend to pay back, I have been receiving small paybacks over time.
Though I have to agree the payback has been less then timely, I hope that in the end what was guaranteed will be paid.

//DeaDTerra

As you now have re-listed the issue, how about paying out the BTC you received so far to bondholders?

+1

Only about 40% of the share holders have actually claimed yet, hence I want to wait a bit longer before paying it out.
//DeaDTerra

They get it after claiming. I just recently claimed my account there and got already a few bitcents in dividends that were paid while my shares were still unclaimed.

oki then I will start issueing dividends.
//DeaDTerra

Another dividend of  0.05810575 per share has been paid out.
Bringing up the total to 0.60531725 BTC per share.
//DeaDTerra

Thanks for the small payout. All received it and was able to withdraw it without any problems :)

Received, thanks!

DeadTerra, can you comment if imsaguy has paid back 100% of his obligations or not? If he hasn't, imsaguy has been sitting on valuable ASICMINER shares (worth much more than 0.1 each now) while enjoying an out-of-contract, interest free loan from GIPPT investors.

I'm honestly surprised that that imsaguy/ineededausername do not have scammer tags by now.  Any big investors want to start a thread?

Relevant posts from 4 months ago:

Hi DeadTerra,

You mentioned that you have recovered 430BTC, but you paid out on Bitfunder only 200BTC. Will we receive another payment soon?

Thanks.

I'm a big investor, and I'm surprised about that too. But since ineededausername has the debt, he went from being a very frequent poster, to not having posted a single message in the last half year. I'm afraid that when he's given a scammer tag, he will abandon his account and leave the forums. Same thing happened with Hashking and Patrick too. So that's why I didn't request a scammer-tag yet, I hope he has more incentive to pay back without one.

I'm working on a deal for that, but as you know, GLBSE shut down, so price discovery is much slower.  Its not just a matter of 'put it on the market' and its gone in 10 seconds.  I have satisfied over 80% of my GIPPT obligation.  Much of what you are owed now from GIPPT would seem to be from hashking's side of things.

He still owes me north of 300 bitcoins, but I don't get payments and the last time I asked for an update and offered 50 cents on the dollar he told me I didn't have priority with him.

So I auctioned off his debt. I can't wait anymore. If what you are saying is true however, then Imsaguy basically destroyed CPA, and cost me 2 months of salary paying off NYAN.A. I'm very upset about that if it's true.

This is what I suspected.  

I am telling the truth.
Mid-september, imsaguy said on IRC (-assets or -otc probably) that he held 10,000 shares of ASICMINER.  In #bitcoin-assets, I had said something negative about GIPPT/imsaguy/ineededausername/hashking and he showed up to defend himself.  He also offered to buy out my few shares of GIPPT to quiet me, which I rejected on principle.  I suggested he sell ASICMINER shares to repay his debts, but he claimed the market was not liquid enough.  I then offered to buy 200-300BTC of ASICMINER at the GLBSE bid (which was around 0.10 or 0.11 at the time), which he rejected.  He has since deleted his "Says the guy that was offered a buyout and refused it because he'd rather bitch." post from this thread.

Someone who keeps IRC logs could verify my claims.  Look around Sept. 16 - 18, 2012.

He is absolutely scamming you if he has not repayed a debt.  I'm surprised he rejected settling for 50%.

Here is some more evidence that imsaguy holds at least 5000 shares of ASICMINER, as one must hold 5000 or more shares to be a member of the "board":

Anyways, I managed to sell off my remaining shares for 0.35 BTC each (meaning I got ~95 Bitcents on the coin) which is close enough for me. It was a long ride but finally it paid off trusting a few members of this community. With this I got back enough BTC to only have a minimal loss after exposing to pirateat40 (and being stupid to not pull out before I went abroad for some time where I couldn't read news) - thanks to DeadDTerra for sticking around and a big and hearthy "f*** you" to quite a lot of people in this community (of which far too many do not even have a scammer tag!) for intransparently and stupidly gambling with the money and trust I gave them.

I certainly learned a lot and that alone is worth the handfull of BTC I lost over this.

Edit:
Oh, and I probably lost more BTC because of DMC, Gigamining, usagi's "ventures" and Bitbond than because of pirateat40 - go figure!

First of I want to apologize for the horrible and bumpy ride that I might have caused you. But I am happy to hear you got out a live with minimal loses, a lot better then most other pirate investors.
This whole journey has taught me a lot, let's just hope that we all learnt a lesson out of this bullshit and that we won't do anything similar again. If we do, then lets remind each other to stay out of trouble :P
//DeaDTerra

I've responded to your concerns regarding my "ventures" in the appropriate thread. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133168.msg1495887#msg1495887) But for what it's worth I think I am the one who ended up with your share of the GIPPT debt -- I just bought 50 shares at 0.36. Let me know if there's any more where that came from :) Good luck~

The remaining coins due GIPPT from EIEIO are on their way now.

To the doubters:
I haven't posted in months because there hasn't been much of a reason to post.  I don't think some of you comprehend the scale of what I went through.  The collateral fund that was to be used for payments sustained losses, after settlements, of well over 6k BTC.  I had >11k BTC of debt after P-day, and as you can imagine, it was quite depressing to pay that back and it would be even worse if I engaged in useless forum flamewars.  Even after paying over $230k in today's bitcoins (most of which had to be purchased along the way during the rally), I don't know how much reputation I have left, and I haven't been doing too much business in bitcoin-world.  This means that I have stayed and tried to live up to my overwhelming obligations despite almost zero upside, and I think that should be noted.  Although I broke most deadlines, I only have a very (comparatively) small amount of debt left to pay.  Some of you will turn around and mumble things about breaching contracts, and all I have to say is that I sleep well at night knowing that I have done my best to fulfill those contracts, although most of the time I have been late.  Here is an announcement to give some people hope.

Official Announcement
I will be completely closing out my debt by the end of the month.  FWIW, GIPPT holders shall be paid back in full and the asset closed out by March 1, 2013.  I look forward to reentering the community on that date, and perhaps starting a much more financially sound business.  We have all learned a lot from the Pirate default, and we have come far.

Very good news! Too bad that after months of uncertainty, I decided yesterday to sell the 250 shares I had left below market-value, because I gave up hope. it seems like the buyer already knew about this announcement in advance :-\

But nonetheless, I'm very impressed that you live up to your word. I think many people in the same situation had just disappeared, so that you plan to live up to the contract, shows you're a good and honest person at heart. I'm a bit annoyed to read this one day after I sold them all, but I'm happy for the other shareholders!

If I can find DeaDTerra today, a payment of 350 BTC will begin the final leg of the repayment process.

edit: He should have it now, so a payment of 580 BTC will be sent out today (230 remaining from last time).

Value of engineer roughly tracks value of burnt equipment. Impressive to hear about cases where people actually pay off 100% of their debts after a default.

I wouldn't be surprised if ineededausername or other lending cartel members were buying their own debt at a reduced rate.  Pirate defaulted over 5 months ago.  Waiting this long to pay "insurance" should be considered a scam.

A dividend of 0.19335744 per share has been paid.
A total of 588 BTC was paid out to the share holders.
This brings up the total amount paid to 79.867469%
//DeaDTerra

Well done!

Another dividend of 200 BTC has been paid out :)
0.06576783 BTC per share has been paid.
This bring up the total repaid to 86,4735299%.
//DeaDTerra

Debt will probably be finished within this week, thanks for your patience.
--inau

Another 150 has been sent, and I owe less than 200 BTC now.

A true gentleman in this den of disappearing people.

Agreed, thank you INAU. :)

With the final payment of 197 BTC, my debt is now 0 BTC :)
My apologies that DeaDTerra has not finished the payout on Bitfunder yet for the last payment, but all of you should be fully reimbursed the next time he looks at his wallet.
Thanks for your patience.

--inau

Thanks! :)
I know he just went to sleep a few hours ago, so when he wakes up I will poke him to get it taken care of. :)

INAU +++ credibility.
I think people should +1 him on WoT. :)

I will pay out the dividend in 7-8 hours when I get home :)
Thanks for the patience.
//DeaDTerra

For getting an interest free loan over a few months he probably used to invest into a HYIP-ponzi and finally paying it back? ::)

Sorry, but standing behind your word is something that I expect from someone to begin with, not a feature that would need extra mentioning.

Yes, it's nice he repaid even though it's easy in this community to not to and just declare bankruptcy out of nowhere. Still it took way too long to repay and he could have communicated more openly about this, even if it causes a bit of a stirup in some nerd forum like this.

(411.33995574 / 3041) = 0.13526470 per share has been paid out in dividend.
This brings us up to 100% paid back :)
Thank you all for your patience and I yet again want to thank INAU for honoring his promise even though the terrible situation he was put in.
I am going to start delisting the asset soon, as there's no reason to keep it up anymore.
//DeaDTerra

For the record, nothing of the sort happened.  Nobody's money was used in any gamble/risk in any way.

+1 to DT, INAU, and imsaguy

Kudos to everyone for honoring their obligations.

Hi guys!
If you have conducted trades or used my PT,
Then please leave a rating with the new forum system or my OTC http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DeaDTerra
And I will return the favor :)
//DeaDTerra