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Title: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 01:41:28 AM Combine these two:
a) https://blockchain.info/api/api_receive b) http://www.bitcoininsanity.com/ or https://www.bitin.co/buy Therefor I can issue the customer a bitcoin address, which they must MANUALLY copy+paste to purchase some BTC using their credit card (paypal, etc) which is then all automated from that point forward, except the customer must MANUALLY return to the ecommerce site and their payment will be typically be confirmed within Bitcoin's 10 minutes for 1 confirmation. (note they could also pay directly from any BTC they already have, for those rarer customers that do own BTC) The downside is the user has to copy+paste a BTC address to another website, and then manually navigate back to the ecommerce site and wait 10 - 30 minutes for confirmation. I did email the following companies to ask if they can setup more seamless integration and am waiting any response but appears they are not responsive: http://www.bitcoininsanity.com/ https://www.bitin.co/buy Does any one have a way to accomplish a more seamless integration so that naive customers don't get lost? Ideally what should happen is I use the blockchain.info API to generate a new BTC address and the customer should be automatically redirected to a page where they can pay with a credit card to buy BTC which is sent to that BTC address (the address automatically set for the customer), then after the credit card transaction is initiated (and without waiting for the block chain confirmation and without waiting for the credit card processing company to do all their manual verification, e.g. without waiting for them to complete a request for scan of id or phone callback), the customer should be immediately returned automatically to the ecommerce site, so the ecommerce site knows that customer has initiated the transaction and the ecommerce site will know it is waiting for the blockchain.info API callback after the BTC has been sent and the block chain makes one confirmation. The point of returning the customer automatically and immediately to the ecommerce site is because many virtual goods are essentially cost-free, so the ecommerce site may choose to deliver the virtual goods immediately (e.g. a online dating site membership or download software subscription) and rescind the virtual good later if confirmation fails. In other words, chargebacks are an acceptable cost in return for the advantage of giving the good customers immediate seamless, automated access. Without this, Bitcoin will never be widely used for ecommerce!!! I am so surprised that no one has done this yet!!! We've got to get millions of new merchants to accept BTC. And millions of new customers to learn that their merchant does. This is how you do it!!! The ecommerce site can also accept direct BTC transfers for those who already have BTC (which is the vast minority right now), so this will drive millions of people into the ecosystem. What is the advantage over accepting credit cards directly via Paypal or Moneybookers (skrill)? Do you have to ask?! Don't you know about unexpected holdbacks, account freezes, and other bullshit when dealing with those. And also to get paid in BTC and hold balances in BTC. And also because the above method in theory doesn't require the small merchant provide any documentation and KYC/AML charades. I have an immediate need for such a service. If anyone can provide the service, I will use it and pay you. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 01:50:59 AM JUST DO IT!
Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 04:42:13 AM Quote Biggest problem with the model is sham merchants set up to cash out stolen credit cards. Won't work. The bad people can ATTEMPT to do that now (but they will fail bcz of verification) with the existing credit card -> BTC providers I linked to. No need to set up a merchant. Just go to the providers I linked to and use the credit card to buy BTC. That is why those providers have sophisticated verification procedures (e.g. an automated callback to the phone number that matches the card address or asking the customer capture a pic of their id and submit it), that can take up to hours. Also that is why bitinsanity only allows a maximum of $25 purchase per card (per window of time). I am only talking about making the integration work seamlessly for the good customers. Sounds to me like you don't have much experience with ecommerce. In 2000, I wrote an entire download site (downloadfast.com) that did payment processing for download software merchants. Quote unless there is a bank that will agree to not chargeback transactions that are following some defined set of requirements, this is not going to work. From my understanding, the banks can for whatever reason simply reverse any transaction for something like 6 months. So all the user has to say is their card was stolen and it wasnt them who got the BTC. Or the bank could say, the bitcoins are tracing direct to terrorist activity so they are confiscating the funds used. Also Visa and Mastercard are actively making it more difficult, for obvious reasons. Short of Visa/MC themselves adopting BTC, this seems a very unlikely scenario. There are some small cap places that do this, but how long they stay in business? They are in business now and accepting credit cards for bitcoins. While it exists, it is a way to boostrap adoption. From the larger ecosystem, we can gain inertia to give the middle finger to credit cards. Also these services could also accept Dwolla for purchasing BTC. Dwolla does an instant verification of the user's bank account by logging in with the user's provided credentials to the user's account at the bank's online website. The transfer takes 3 - 4 days, but it can't be charged back in most cases (ACH transfers are usually final). The same streamlining of integration that I proposed applies so the 4 day wait isn't a burden on the customer. Also don't assume TPTB are against Bitcoin. I think they love it. The overriding globalists want to destroy the existing monetary system and replace it with a global control. A global non-anonymous ledger is a coup for them. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 05:22:13 AM Quote ACH transfers are most certainly not final. I know damn well there is a 30 - 60 day window for extraordinary cases. Please read what I wrote. I said in "most cases" they are final. Chargebacks on ACH are generally discouraged by the banks if the provider has done the necessary verification procedures and received permission from the owner of the bank account. Dwolla is in the business of working closely with banks on this process. Quote Quote from: iamback Quote Biggest problem with the model is sham merchants set up to cash out stolen credit cards. Won't work. The bad people can do that now with the existing credit card -> BTC providers I linked to. No need to set up a merchant. Just go to the providers I linked to and use the credit card to buy BTC. That is why those providers have sophisticated verification procedures, that can take up to hours. These vendors do the verification that because they are on the hook for chargebacks. They risk that in exchange for But more importantly, they have submitted to verification of their identity, trustworthiness and creditworthiness. A sham merchant set up for the purpose of accepting btc from stolen credit cards via the service you describe (that does not require AML/KYC, but even more importantly anti-fraud verification) would not care about chargebacks, in fact it would be sure they would occur. Bitinsanity has to verify the card holder in either case. There is no difference. If I have a bunch of stolen credit cards, I don't need to set up a fake merchant, I can go directly to bitinsanity and try to get $25 in BTC from each card. Where is your logic? You could attempt to make a deal with one of the existing services, but: 1) their merchant agreement likely has restrictions on reselling, They don't need to do reselling. All they need to do provide an GET or POST HTTP API (i.e. a special URL) to populate the BTC address field automatically and provide a redirection after the transaction is complete. They are already sending the BTC to any address specified. and 2) they would likely do the same verification and creditworthiness checks on you anyway (otherwise they risk being caught in the middle) They can't check who owns the BTC address. Impossible. You are entirely missing the programming points here. And you are a programmer. Did the epiphany hit you yet? Bitinsanity sends the BTC to any address the customer provides. They do that now. Thus a merchant can give the customer a BTC address. And the customer is then in effect buying for the merchant. Bitinsanity has nothing to do with that. All they need to do offer a slightly more programmable API on what THEY ALREADY DO. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 05:30:14 AM Did the epiphany hit you yet? Bitinsanity sends the BTC to any address the customer provides. They do that now. Thus a merchant can give the customer a BTC address. And the customer is then in effect buying for the merchant. Bitinsanity has nothing to do with that. All they need to do offer a slightly more programmable API on what THEY ALREADY DO.
Quote Quote from: iamback Quote ACH transfers are most certainly not final. I know damn well there is a 30 - 60 day window for extraordinary cases. Please read what I wrote. I said in "most cases" they are final. Chargebacks on ACH are generally discouraged by the banks if the provider has done the necessary verification procedures and received permission from the owner of the bank account. Dwolla is in the business of working closely with banks on this process. It's not extraordinary at all. Account information is stolen, fraudulent ACHs are put through and then they are reversed. That happens constantly. It's also built into the cost structure of those offering legitimate services. Dwolla is in the business of verifying the user and following procedures for ACH such as obtaining a signed permission with a scan of id. The instant verification is only to get the 4 day transfer delay rolling asap. Then there is 4 days for Dwolla to follow up on verification. This is night and day difference between accepting credit cards with only an AVS verification step. Quote There is nothing remarkable about any of this. What is remarkable is how obtuse you are. Are you a gatekeeper? Quote If you have a legitimate service to offer, and it sounds like you do, go through the necessarily verification processes and you can get signed up as a merchant. But the idea of a general purposes service that allows unverified merchants to receive BTC is just not going to work. It might work for a little while, but then it will be abused and shut down. You don't understand the entire point of the autonomy of Bitcoin. You need to go back to Bitcoin 101 class. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 05:39:35 AM Quote If you think Bitinsanity does what you want then talk to them about an API. Why are you talking to us, when they are the ones you have the service you are looking for? Quote Quote from: iamback Did the epiphany hit you yet? Bitinsanity sends the BTC to any address the customer provides. They do that now. Thus a merchant can give the customer a BTC address. And the customer is then in effect buying for the merchant. Bitinsanity has nothing to do with that. All they need to do offer a slightly more programmable API on what THEY ALREADY DO. Great! As I said in the other message, talk to them. One issue you will have to worry about is what happens to your business model when they shut down, which is reasonably likely, or at least a significant risk. Because for one reason I haven't been able to get in touch with anyone at these credit card -> BTC providers. Maybe some of you guys have some contacts and can get the ball rolling. The point of autonomy is that the market will keep adapting and finding new avenues. The monetary system is going to die and they will end up shutting the entire global economy down. But we plan on doing something about that. Rome wasn't built in a day. Step-by-step. Carpe diem. Seize the opportunities that exist and build more in the meantime. These providers could potentially maximize their growth near-term and use that to find new avenues (e.g. the Dwolla -> BTC option and others). Happy that I finally got my point through. The important first step is getting influential people to understand what I was talking about. Thanks. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 05:46:02 AM Why KYC and AML will collapse the global economy
Quote If you have a legitimate service to offer, and it sounds like you do, go through the necessarily verification processes and you can get signed up as a merchant. But the idea of a general purposes service that allows unverified merchants to receive BTC is just not going to work. It might work for a little while, but then it will be abused and shut down. You don't understand the entire point of the autonomy of Bitcoin. You need to go back to Bitcoin 101 class. For one of many reasons orthogonal to the degrees-of-freedom efficiency means more innovation (including the ability of people in the 3rd world to quickly set up an ecommerce site without jumping through hoops, and testing a site idea before committing a lot of time to set up a proper corporate entity, etc), if someone doesn't like you in government they make a phone call and you are shut off without due process (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10546253#msg10546253). This is the new normal. Or you are coerced to spy for the government (or even some fraudster within the government who has the power to prevent you from reporting him to the authorities because he is the authorities) in return for not being shut down. And so being anonymous is extremely important. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 05:58:25 AM Why KYC and AML will collapse the global economy Quote If you have a legitimate service to offer, and it sounds like you do, go through the necessarily verification processes and you can get signed up as a merchant. But the idea of a general purposes service that allows unverified merchants to receive BTC is just not going to work. It might work for a little while, but then it will be abused and shut down. You don't understand the entire point of the autonomy of Bitcoin. You need to go back to Bitcoin 101 class. For one of many reasons orthogonal to the degrees-of-freedom efficiency means more innovation (including the ability of people in the 3rd world to quickly set up an ecommerce site without jumping through hoops, and testing a site idea before committing a lot of time to set up a proper corporate entity, etc), if someone doesn't like you in government they make a phone call and you are shut off without due process (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10546253#msg10546253). This is the new normal. Or you agree to spy for the government in return for not being shut down. And so being anonymous is extremely important. I agree and disagree. Such services have been and will shut down due to fraud regardless of government abuse or spying, or the lack thereof. That's largely a free market outcome, in the present environment. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 07:38:42 AM Quote But the idea of a general purposes service that allows unverified merchants to receive BTC is just not going to work. It might work for a little while, but then it will be abused and shut down. Are you being realistic, defeatist, or a little of both? Omniscience? It is ostensibly working now (well?) and proliferating (?). Apparently these were the available options some months ago: http://99bitcoins.com/how-to-buy-bitcoin-with-a-credit-card/ And the updated list: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_To_Buy_Bitcoins_With_Your_Credit_Card Quote One issue you will have to worry about is what happens to your business model when they shut down, which is reasonably likely, or at least a significant risk. Before they shut those BTC services down, let's say I have already signed up 1000 customers in my subscription (pay as you go) business model. So now they understand they load a BTC balance into my site and they consume the balance in BTC units "pay per use". So now they understand our site is denominated in BTC and they've learned to think in terms of their unit-of-account being BTC (and thus probably started to think about if they want to hold some BTC as an investment). Remember I am targeting virile Western males in my business, thus this overlaps well with Bitcoin's known demographics (younger white males). Also by this time they've noticed our site is providing features they've come to depend on that are not provided by any competing site. They have already dozens of contacts in our site they don't want to lose. Thus they are hooked. Thus they will find a way to go purchase some BTC and continue to pay us in BTC. And by that time, they've probably learned to use a more efficient means to purchase BTC than a credit card (but they may still resort to the credit card option in a pinch and these bitinsanity services need to diversify their business models to provide optional more efficient means, e.g. Dwolla). Thus our revenue stream would not get cut off. In that interim time, we can endeavor to jump through all the KYC and AML circus hoops, so we can accept credit cards directly. And who knows which other avenues will arrive in the interim time as well... Such services have been and will shut down due to fraud regardless of government abuse or spying, or the lack thereof. That's largely a free market outcome, in the present environment. IMO a myopic and defeatist attitude. You ignore the possibility of paradigm shifts. For example, the paradigm shift that I elucidated upthread that with BTC as the output, it is impossible to prove who is receiving the funds and thus merchant agreements that exclude reselling are impotent. The traditional financial sector is paid to be dumb and slow to adapt. It could take them year or years to realize they've be outwitted by technological paradigm shifts. By that time, our ecosystem has maybe already gained critical mass. These sites are experimenting with advanced verification methods that are not normally employed. They have the advantage that the BTC purchaser is extra motivated and willing to wait a little bit longer and jump through a few more KYC hoops than your typical credit card transaction. Dwolla is also approaching it from the same perspective. They can do some instant verification and notify that transaction has cleared initial verification, thus allowing the parties to a transaction to decide if they want to deliver the goods. And then they can consume some hours or days to finalize the transaction and verification. From the good customer's perspective, as long he or she can receive the goods quickly, he or she may not be affected by the delay (in contrast to Bitpay's normal transaction taking 10 - 30 minutes and being as obtuse and frustrating as hell to a novice!). The additional verification is a hassle and some customers may not follow through. So there needs to be a strong enough carrot to motivate them. In my business model, they won't be purchasing until they are already have a dire need to reply to some new contacts that they already invested effort into finding and contacting. Also bitinsanity and dwolla appear to be able to avoid manual verification for many first time customers, when the amount involved is very small and their instant verification is able to verify with sufficient probability, i.e. a callback to the phone number that matches the address on the credit card or for example Verified By Visa. Or in dwolla's case, verifying login of the user's online banking account, because if a hacker has that, then they've likely already cleaned out the account in an easier way (such as issuing transfers from within that bank account site). These companies depend on repeat business to lower the fraud rate and cost. Their fraud cost is built in to their fee model. So you can't just assume that all this sites will fail due to fraud. Their entire business models are built around verification modeling. Are you sure you are omniscient? Right now I think they are more likely to fail due to lack of customer base and dwindling interest in Bitcoin until the price finally bottoms under $150. So they need a boost to drive more customers. And to differentiate themself from the herd of companies offering this service. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 08:16:25 AM Such services have been and will shut down due to fraud regardless of government abuse or spying, or the lack thereof. That's largely a free market outcome, in the present environment. IMO a myopic and defeatist attitude. You ignore the possibility of paradigm shifts. I've added bold to the pre-existing italicization to make my comment easier for you to not misinterpret. You will also note in my other comments I did not say using a fragile gateway service was necessarily a bad idea (in fact I suggested you contact them to work out an interface), but merely pointed out you should consider how your business will cope with their (quite likely) failure to continue providing the service you need. Quote in contrast to Bitpay's normal transaction taking 10 - 30 minutes and being as obtuse and frustrating as hell to a novice I have no idea what you are talking about. When I've used bit pay's service as a customer (roughly a dozen times), it took about 5 seconds and was extremely to click on the "bitcoin:" link provided which autofilled in the amount and address in my wallet. These companies depend on repeat business to lower the fraud rate and cost. Their fraud cost is built in to their fee model. So you can't just assume that all this sites will fail due to fraud. Their entire business models are built around verification modeling. Are you sure you are omniscient? Right now I think they are more likely to fail due to lack of customer base and dwindling interest in Bitcoin until the price finally bottoms under $150. So they need a boost to drive more customers. And to differentiate themself from the herd of companies offering this service. Lack of growth and limited repeat business due to dwinding interest and death due to fraud are mostly the same thing because the the fraud industry has a lot of interest in using BTC as a vehicle for getting it money out, thus it will drive up costs for these businesses, forcing them to increase their fees, further driving away what little "legitimate" interest there was to begin with. I will agree with you on this though. Most of these businesses don't really know where their growth is going to come from; they are playing a lottery with startup capital to try to get big. If you can have a successful business that can drive legitimate traffic to them, you may help them succeed. There could be a synergy. Finally, I'll point out one other contradiction in your reasoning. All of this extra "verification" you keep bringing up is anything but "seamless" (your word) for the customer. It is a very inefficient and expensive way to do e-commerce, which is why most normal sites don't do it (not because they, too, don't face some fraud risk). Every extra step in completing a purchase has an abandonment rate, which are cumulative and greatly increase cost of customer acquisition. For something like a dating site, you are far better off just taking credit cards directly, not putting extra obstacles in the way of the customer. As you already pointed out, your risk from chargebacks is limited, since your cost to deliver the server is low to nonexistent. By introducing BTC into the middle of the process you are making it worse. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 08:41:26 AM You will also note in my other comments I did not say using a fragile gateway service was necessarily a bad idea (in fact I suggested you contact them to work out an interface), but merely pointed out you should consider how your business will cope with their (quite likely) failure to continue providing the service you need. Initially you said I should give up and go directly to being a KYC slave (you perhaps not realizing that I no longer have a residence identification in the USA to comply with the Patriot Act which stated the address on your id or utility bill with your name has to match the address of residence claimed, nor do I have "official" residence where I currently reside, so myself jumping through KYC hoops in terms of a merchant account (which I used to have obviously) is not so simple for me at the moment). So for me the issue may be the ability to start or not start a business quickly. I would obviously choose the former (given my current time and financial constraints). Then I pointed out some of the paradigm shifts involved, so you've apparently morphed your understanding, which is great. Admitting when you've learned from someone else is a sign of mutual respect. I think I've done the same in public when I've learned from you. I was slightly astonished by the deaf reaction to my attempt to try to light a fire under some ways to drive adoption. I am starting to really lean towards Bitcoin's community is suffering from lackadaisical ("ho hum, oh that's just the way it is") leaders who lack vision and the ability to think outside-the-box and push some significant paradigm shifts. Just to give you an example of the outrageous bullshit Paypal does. I sold some BTC on localbitcoins and the seller of BTC deposited to my Paypal account using a stolen Paypal account. So the transaction was reversed. Then Paypal restricted my account (which I opened a decade or more ago) and requested I jump through additional verification hoops which I can not complete because I don't have the documents they requested and can't obtain them. I used to use my Paypal account for many things, and now I am unable too. Whose ongoing loss is that? (theirs, mine, and the entire global economy as this KYC overkill mayonnaise spreads like a plague) The system is effectively shutting out a very talented developer who can drive $millions in GDP (and much more than that in the butterfly fan out effect). Quote in contrast to Bitpay's normal transaction taking 10 - 30 minutes and being as obtuse and frustrating as hell to a novice I have no idea what you are talking about. When I've used bit pay's service as a customer (roughly a dozen times), it took about 5 seconds and was extremely to click on the "bitcoin:" link provided which autofilled in the amount and address in my wallet. Bitpay's screen does a timeout for 10 minutes waiting for 1 block chain confirmation. The naive customer shits there wondering WTF. Then sometimes (quite often in my experience) the 10 minutes times out because the 1 confirmation didn't happen. So Bitpay says the transaction is aborted, but the payment was already sent by the customer, so the customer ends up lost having paid but not knowing how to get the confirmation from Bitpay that payment was received. I've learned that I can save the prior URL before Bitpay redirects to the timeout URL and then reload that after 30 minutes or so and get the confirmation from Bitpay. But naive non programmers would never figure that out. That is the most piece of shit system I've ever seen. A merchant is suicidal if they are using Bitpay. They will get so many complaints from customers who don't know WTF happened. Btw, clicking the bitcoin: link never works for me with localbitcoins. I have no idea if there needs to be a browser plugin. There are no instructions provided by Bitpay. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 08:44:25 AM Bitpay's screen does a timeout for 10 minutes waiting for 1 block chain confirmation. That is up to the merchant as I understand it, and the ones I've used all accepted zero confirms as soon as the transaction was "seen" on the Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 08:48:47 AM Bitpay's screen does a timeout for 10 minutes waiting for 1 block chain confirmation. That is up to the merchant as I understand it, and the ones I've used all accepted zero confirms as soon as the transaction was "seen" on the Registering domains can't accept 0 confirmations. So many other examples where 0 confirmations are not acceptable. But I also think you are technically incorrect. Bitpay and the merchant have no way to know that localbitcoins sent the payment until the 1 confirmation is seen on the block chain (unless localbitcoins and Bitpay have a collaboration or Bitpay is sniffing transactions at major pools). You must be lucky to be using a very integrated wallet and merchant collaboration. I don't think most naive users would see your experience. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 08:51:41 AM Bitpay's screen does a timeout for 10 minutes waiting for 1 block chain confirmation. That is up to the merchant as I understand it, and the ones I've used all accepted zero confirms as soon as the transaction was "seen" on the Registering domains can't accept 0 confirmations. So many other examples where 0 confirmations are not acceptable. That's not entirely true. The registrar can accept the order with 0-conf, but wait for sufficient confirmation before actually registering the name (delivery). If the registration fails after the payment confirms, you will need to get a refund, but that could happen regardless. You won't get instant domain registration, but there is no good reason to hold up the order process for this. There are actually very few types of transactions that can't tolerate a short delay between order placement and final delivery. Quote But I also think you are technically incorrect. Bitpay and the merchant have no way to know that localbitcoins sent the payment until the 1 confirmation is seen on the block chain (unless localbitcoins and Bitpay have a collaboration). Sure they do, they see it on the p2p which is the same way miners get the transaction in order to include it in a block (I'm sure you know this so I'm not sure why you are confused about what is going on). The problem you may run into is that localbitcoins doesn't send payments right away. It isn't a very good wallet. There is really nothing wrong with Bitpay in most cases for people using better wallets, at least not in my experience with them, which has been entirely good. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 08:56:53 AM they see it on the p2p I was editing while you were in the process of replying. or Bitpay is sniffing transactions at major pools Localbitcoins is I think sending it. It may have something to do with not including a tx fee. Who knows! Bitcoin sucks! (e.g. tx fee unreliability) If the major way many people buy Bitcoins doesn't work, then Bitcoin doesn't work! There is really nothing wrong with Bitpay in most cases for people using better wallets, at least not in my experience with them, which has been entirely good. http://i0.wp.com/armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/headinsand.jpg That's not entirely true. The registrar can accept the order with 0-conf, but wait for sufficient confirmation before actually registering the name (delivery). If the registration fails after the payment confirms, you will need to get a refund, but that could happen regardless. You won't get instant domain registration, but there is no good reason to hold up the order process for this. You hate to admit when you are wrong. Get realistic man. Domain registrars don't do it the esoteric way. (Btw I was aware of 0-conf. I don't waste my time on sideband "noise") Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 09:29:24 AM Finally, I'll point out one other contradiction in your reasoning. All of this extra "verification" you keep bringing up is anything but "seamless" (your word) for the customer. It is a very inefficient and expensive way to do e-commerce, which is why most normal sites don't do it (not because they, too, don't face some fraud risk). Every extra step in completing a purchase has an abandonment rate, which are cumulative and greatly increase cost of customer acquisition. Agreed. But also note that unless I have my own merchant account, the customer is going to be subject to variable verification results with any third party credit card processing company I use, because their verification model applies to all their merchants, not just my profile. (and other least common denominator bullshit too, because of shit like what Paypal does where they blame the innocent party for complicity in the fraud and so suddenly a month's worth of sales are frozen and your customers can't pay) Moreover (and especially since your point is about attribution rate), integrating with more payment providers gives customers more options when they are declined by another provider. Thus given I am unable to quickly accept credit cards the normal way (for the reasons I stated in a prior post), then I can start with these options I have proposed in this thread. Other ecommerce sites might which were able to prioritize regular credit card processing, instead add these other options as an added option, and not as their first option. In either case, there can be widespread demand for the options I have proposed. Especially from those merchants who want to help drive adoption of Bitcoin and crypto-currencies. Don't dismiss the importance of social value aspects. Humans are not only motivated by the bottom line profit, e.g. see Pair.com's "green" initiative (which makes me puke since I know anthropocentric climate change is a lie but any way Lol). And this can be free referrals and advertising for this service providers I linked to. Thus I think it should be a "no brainer" decision for them barring any unforeseen issues we have not enumerated. I note they have affiliate programs, so this can be another source of income for the merchant (albeit probably a very minor increment). I understand the point of diminishing returns, but I found in my past experience that having a second payment option added about 15 - 20% to download software sales. It might be even greater now given the level of fraud on the internet being greater and more sophisticated. Also I think the verification procedure at Bitinsanity might in some cases require no special action for the user. Even phone callbacks are becoming quite common place now, e.g. signing up a new gmail account, so users are getting used to do these things quickly. Also accepting Bitcoin, causes word of mouth advertising and good will. I think some users spend more when you accept Bitcoin. I surely would have never changed domain registrars except for the fact that my prior one refused to accept Bitcoin. I understand accepting Bitcoin is orthogonal to integrating with ways to buy and pay in Bitcoin more seamlessly from credit cards and bank accounts (via Dwolla). But if going to bother integrating with that new blockchain.info API that I linked to, then might as well offer these other options too. Spread the love around when it is not a unjustifiable diminishing return. I think generally it works as a paradigm. For something like a dating site, you are far better off just taking credit cards directly, not putting extra obstacles in the way of the customer. As you already pointed out, your risk from chargebacks is limited, since your cost to deliver the server is low to nonexistent. By introducing BTC into the middle of the process you are making it worse. As I explained above, not entirely true. Yes indeed it would be best to eventually take credit cards directly if I can. But the other options have benefits any way, and I have to do the work first that I can do. If can't do the credit cards first, then do what I can do and build from there. And I for a fact I am not the only person in that circumstance. Google statistics for example on percentage of people in the UK who have no credit card to get some feel for the fact that a lot of people probably can't readily qualify to accept credit card payments or they may have ongoing issues with compliance with ongoing escalation of documentary requirements (e.g. the Paypal bullshit example). Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 09:43:20 AM Smooth, btw thanks I think I will contact blockchain.info and ask them why they can't sniff txs and callback before 1 confirmation. Their documention seems to indicate they are not. That is orthogonal to whether these credit card -> BTC services are worthwhile or not.
Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 09:53:03 AM But also note that unless I have my own merchant account, the customer is going to be subject to variable verification results with any third party credit card processing company I use, because their verification model applies to all their merchants, not just my profile. (and other least common denominator bullshit too, because of shit like what Paypal does where they blame the innocent party for complicity in the fraud and so suddenly a month's worth of sales are frozen and your customers can't pay) This needs to be further emphasized, because actually using a credit card processor that has very lax verification actually ends up costing you as the merchant, because you get blamed for their inability to squelch fraud. Suddenly you find they are placing restrictions on you, demanding you provide further documentation of transactions, demanding more extensive KYC documentation, raising your holdback percentages, increasing your fees, etc.. This can even force you to change your business model to make your product essentially available for free so that people aren't enticed to do fraud to access what you are selling. And you can only weakly upsell instead. I am being a little bit over dramatic, but some businesses may find the bottom line pushing them to an ad-sponsored model instead. Thus the cost of the increased verification procedures may not be as relatively onerous as you might initially assume. It also depends on the capabilities of the merchant. Fine tuning these variables with your own merchant account is for larger capital businesses. A small outfit with lower economy-of-scale is at a distinct disadvantage. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 09:57:42 AM Quote or Bitpay is sniffing transactions at major pools No that's not how it works at all. They are probably connected to major pools, yes, and this helps them know that the transaction is widely propagated, but you can sniff it off the p2p anywhere, usually within 1-2 seconds. If you run your own node and watch the debug logs you can see the transaction arrive right away. The risk to the merchant is that the transaction never makes it into a block, but that is not seen by customers for most Bitpay transactions (I'll admit domain registration might be different -- that is not something I've done with bitcoin). Quote Localbitcoins is I think sending it. It may have something to do with not including a tx fee. Who knows! Bitcoin sucks! (e.g. tx fee unreliability) I have no idea what localbitcoins is doing. Get a real wallet and try again. You realize that if you don't have the private keys you don't have Bitcoin right? Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 10:02:31 AM Smooth, btw thanks I think I will contact blockchain.info and ask them why they can't sniff txs and callback before 1 confirmation. Their documention seems to indicate they are not. That is orthogonal to whether these credit card -> BTC services are worthwhile or not. It may be that their api is run off a blockchain database and doesn't include unconfirmed tx, I'm not sure. Their web blockchain explorer certainly shows them though, so it would be an odd omission if they don't offer that in their API. It could also be they are trying to protect merchants from themselves by excluding them from the receive payments api, in that some merchants who accepted zero confirm transactions would be doing something dangerous (depending on the nature of the product). Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:03:26 AM There are actually very few types of transactions that can't tolerate a short delay between order placement and final delivery. Agreed. Distinguishing between "physical ship" (or irreversible state) on 0-confirmation and order confirmation (or access to 0-cost virtual goods) on 0-confirmation, then my point was the former. One of the main points of my OP, is that merchants aren't able to easily integrate with "order confirmation on 0-confirmation" for these credit card -> Bitcoin providers. Ditto apparently Blockchain.info's new payment API. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:13:33 AM Quote or Bitpay is sniffing transactions at major pools No that's not how it works at all. They are probably connected to major pools, yes, and this helps them know that the transaction is widely propagated, but you can sniff it off the p2p anywhere, usually within 1-2 seconds. If you run your own node and watch the debug logs you can see the transaction arrive right away. The risk to the merchant is that the transaction never makes it into a block, but that is not seen by customers for most Bitpay transactions (I'll admit domain registration might be different -- that is not something I've done with bitcoin). Quote Localbitcoins is I think sending it. It may have something to do with not including a tx fee. Who knows! Bitcoin sucks! (e.g. tx fee unreliability) I have no idea what localbitcoins is doing. Get a real wallet and try again. You realize that if you don't have the private keys you don't have Bitcoin right? Unless the txs are not P2P propagated because the tx fee was insufficient. I don't know if that is what is happening or not. There is nothing in the Bitcoin protocol that requires peers to propagate txs which they themselves will refuse to include in the next block if they win it. I have no idea what ad hoc result we have. Localbitcoins is a real wallet. Sorry you have your head in the sand. The masses are going to use it, thus it is real from their perspective. Bitcoin is broken from their perspective. Your assertion of how it works is obviously false. Just declaring that localbitcoins is not a real wallet doesn't make the reality disappear. If you run your own node and watch the debug logs you can see the transaction arrive right away. Can you please explain to your average person what "debug" means? You realize that if you don't have the private keys you don't have Bitcoin right? You didn't learn anything from Mt.Gox and Coinbase about reality versus delusion? People don't care! They use the easiest and most readily available method. I can't even keep track of my underwear and you think I want to put some private keys on a USB stick for some < $1000 of BTC? Hopefully investors have learned not to put $100,000 of BTC private keys on a server. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 10:20:07 AM Your assertion of how it works is obviously false. Just declaring that localbitcoins is not a real wallet doesn't make the reality disappear. At best it is a lousy wallet. Yes, I've used it. It's very slow, and unpredictably so (unless the counterparty is a localbitcoin wallet, in which case it is offchain and instant). Quote If you run your own node and watch the debug logs you can see the transaction arrive right away. Can you please explain to your average person what "debug" means? I wasn't addressing the average person, I was addressing a programmer who is apparently building some kind of Bitcoin-based commerce system. You might want to try these kinds of things to see what is actually going on in the system instead of relying on your experience with a domain registrar site. Or at least try a bunch of other Bitpay sites. Because I have and they all did zero-conf within a few seconds. Very user-friendly. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:25:19 AM Can you please explain to your average person what "debug" means? I wasn't addressing the average person, I was addressing a programmer who is apparently building some kind of Bitcoin-based commerce system. You might want to try these kinds of things to see what is actually going on in the system instead of relying on your experience with a domain registrar site. Or at least try a bunch of other Bitpay sites. Because I have and they all did zero-conf within a few seconds. Very user-friendly. Precisely I choose to share the experience of the average person, because I know if I want to make million user products then I need to understand their needs. That is one of the things that I do different than most nerds. I live amongst the normal people. That gives me insights. As well, why would I bother for such a small amount of BTC? I am not intellectually curious, because I know already how Bitcoin works conceptually and I understand what is possible and what is ad hoc. Your experience doesn't serve any need. I am looking at how to change the world, not fart around in geek land with small adoption rates. Add: perhaps I haven't tried enough sites that accept Bitcoin. But in any case, I've never had such horrible experiences with purchasing by credit card. So the coverage of Bitcoin is not reliable. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 10:30:14 AM As well, why would I bother for such a small amount of BTC? Because you seem confused about what is going on with Bitcoin commerce when you say things like: Quote That is the most piece of shit system I've ever seen. A merchant is suicidal if they are using Bitpay. They will get so many complaints from customers who don't know WTF happened. That is not my experience with Bitpay at all, as a customer, doing the sorts of things average people do (i.e. buying stuff). Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:33:07 AM As well, why would I bother for such a small amount of BTC? Because you seem confused about what is going on with Bitcoin commerce when you say things like: Quote That is the most piece of shit system I've ever seen. A merchant is suicidal if they are using Bitpay. They will get so many complaints from customers who don't know WTF happened. That is not my experience with Bitpay at all, as a customer, doing the sorts of things average people do (i.e. buying stuff). Because you are not doing it the way average people do when they choose to use localbitcoins which is apparently a very popular site. Do you think I am the only person who had that experience? I find that very very unlikely. Characterizing it as me being confused is condescending. I am aligning my understanding with the fact that it never happens for credit cards, so if it is happening with a popular option, then it reflects a severe relative weakness. I can only imagine how many people abandoned Bitcoin because of that. You choose to say those are outliers and thus say I am confused about the "real" way it works. I say you are not being realistic. I am not the only person with that experience. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:37:38 AM http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ujnvp/what_happens_if_i_pay_via_bitpay_and_the_15min/
Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:47:13 AM Smooth, btw thanks I think I will contact blockchain.info and ask them why they can't sniff txs and callback before 1 confirmation. Their documention seems to indicate they are not. That is orthogonal to whether these credit card -> BTC services are worthwhile or not. It may be that their api is run off a blockchain database and doesn't include unconfirmed tx, I'm not sure. Their web blockchain explorer certainly shows them though, so it would be an odd omission if they don't offer that in their API. It could also be they are trying to protect merchants from themselves by excluding them from the receive payments api, in that some merchants who accepted zero confirm transactions would be doing something dangerous (depending on the nature of the product). I had the exact same thoughts. Also I only perused the main page, so perhaps there is some more detailed API documentation I need to read which may provide the feature. Actually I had thought about that when I was reading the main page, but I didn't prioritize that I should ask them about 0-confirmation callback. With you emphasizing that the ad hoc network is propagating most txs, pushes me to prioritize that inquiry. Thanks. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 10:49:17 AM http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ujnvp/what_happens_if_i_pay_via_bitpay_and_the_15min/ "submitted 1 year ago" I don't know how common this is, nor whether these sorts of delays used to be common. All I can tell you is that I've bought from several different Bitpay merchants over the past year, using three different wallets (one of them Coinbase -- hard to get more "average person" than that) and they've all worked the same way. Bitpay invoice comes up, I pay it, Bitpay shows paid, merchant site shows paid, all within a few seconds. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:54:46 AM I always enjoy debating with smooth. I always get some useful result from it. As well find it intellectually challenging and it usually brings me to humor at some point or the feeling of gentleman's brawl and heading for a beer afterwards.
We rarely disagree, only we sometimes need to clarify what the facts are, then we agree usually. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 11:00:19 AM I must admit I am out of the loop on Coinbase, because I balk at anything that asks for KYC.
For me, localbitcoins is the international face of Bitcoin, because no KYC, e.g. it is available here in the Philippines. Perhaps I am only seeing what 5 - 10% of the market sees. I am surely not mainstream USA any more (shudder the Frankenstein it has become (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10577675#msg10577675)). Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 11:08:52 AM I always enjoy debating with smooth. I always get some useful result from it. As well find it intellectually challenging and it usually brings me to humor at some point or the feeling of gentleman's brawl and heading for a beer afterwards. We rarely disagree, only we sometimes need to clarify what the facts are, then we agree usually. I look forward to that beer someday. Stick to working on your useful project and don't waste too much time here. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 11:10:14 AM smooth in your estimation is the addition of payment methods Dwolla (assuming I pass their KYC) and integration with Bitinsanity via the blockchain.info free service too small of a diminishing return relative to me needing to get on an airplane to return the land of "no fly lists" to renew my driver's license (and other residency status matters) so I can qualify for Paypal's (or Moneybooker's) KYC?
One thing that bothers me is being abroad and then some arbitrary demand. I've heard sometimes they demand you show utility bills in addition to a driver's license. I suppose they might even require you to be physically present at some point. Just seems like a potential sinkhole. Or am I exaggerating? I am thinking to find a way to launch my project asap, then hopefully after proving its popularity, I can find a way to process credit cards such as perhaps someone partners with me to do the KYC (or find some efficient way that doesn't require me to fly back to USA). Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on February 26, 2015, 11:23:22 AM smooth in your estimation is the addition of payment methods Dwolla (assuming I pass their KYC) and integration with Bitinsanity via the blockchain.info free service too small of a diminishing return relative to me needing to get on an airplane to return the land of "no fly lists" to renew my driver's license (and other residency status matters) so I can qualify for Paypal's KYC? I don't know. Frankly Paypal's merchant integration isn't entirely wonderful either. There are extra steps of logging into paypal's site, selecting a payment method, being annoyed by paypal's advertisements, etc. On the positive side, Paypal does support subscriptions with automatic renewal, and pull methods for upsells. I don't know what added compliance burden those carry if any. This is all about what is going to work for the customer base you have in mind. As you say, once you attract a lot of customers (or at least enough to attract investment) you can negotiate with the payments Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 12:10:43 PM There are extra steps of logging into paypal's site, selecting a payment method, being annoyed by paypal's advertisements, etc. I Lol'ed when I imagined what if you meant for the merchant instead of the customer, as an exaggeration of my phobia of Paypal. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 26, 2015, 10:50:05 PM smooth in your estimation is the addition of payment methods Dwolla (assuming I pass their KYC) and integration with Bitinsanity via the blockchain.info free service too small of a diminishing return relative to me needing to get on an airplane to return the land of "no fly lists" to renew my driver's license (and other residency status matters) so I can qualify for Paypal's KYC? I don't know. Frankly Paypal's merchant integration isn't entirely wonderful either. There are extra steps of logging into paypal's site, selecting a payment method, being annoyed by paypal's advertisements, etc. On the positive side, Paypal does support subscriptions with automatic renewal, and pull methods for upsells. I don't know what added compliance burden those carry if any. This is all about what is going to work for the customer base you have in mind. As you say, once you attract a lot of customers (or at least enough to attract investment) you can negotiate with the payments Again in addition to your quoted point that Paypal may not being entirely immune to attrition of prospective customers (in addition to your point about attrition in their GUI, some of them such as myself refuse or are incapable of jumping through Paypal's KYC hoops) one of my points is that when you warn about becoming dependent on a provider and being shut down, I have that phobia about using Paypal. I also compound the "kafkaesque KYC theater" shut down risk with the risk of capital controls on merchants given my belief in Armstrong's 2015.75 Sovereign Debt BIG BANG model, and given that the KYC crap accelerated with the Patriot Act after the 9/11 terrorism ("you are either for us, or against us (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us,_or_against_us)") 9/11 false (http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html) flag[1] Twilight Zone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y). So I am looking at benefits of multiple payment options not being only the incremental increase in sales due to lower the attribution rate over only a single payment processing option, not being only the social good will of accepting Bitcoin, but also building in the resiliency against everyday anti-fraud booby traps and moreover the SHTF shift in the Western world ETA just some months from now. For me this all about a process of the world morphing away from the KYC abyss over time and towards a new world of freedom. It is absolutely necessary to avoid a Dark Age (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10502755#msg10502755). Or to put it more simply and less conspiratorially, multiple payment options insure against Murphy's Law. Does that make any sense or am I am just a kook outside the mainstream? I am surely not mainstream USA any more (shudder the Frankenstein it has become (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10577675#msg10577675)). http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/26/nsa-destroying-american-technology/ Quote NSA Destroying American Technology American technology companies are losing business on a major scale. The NSA will be responsible for wiping out the United States as a leader in computer science all because they have to listen to the entire world like an old woman addicted to soap operas. I find myself totally shocked at Microsoft. I purchased the latest office at a store. You then have to go online to download the program. They REQUIRE you to have a Microsoft Account. The worse part of this was they demanded I enter a credit card to PROVE who I was acknowledging it would not be used since I already paid for it. I simply refused. They will not refund your money so this is the latest consumer fraud. It is not disclosed that you must PROVE who you are now to use their software. This has gone way too far. There are alternatives out there for word like LibreOffice, and Gnumeric is a better spreadsheet than excel for it can open files excel cannot. There are alternatives to Powerpoint and of course there are alternatives to Outlook such as Thunderbird. The question is WHY should I have to PROVE who I am to Microsoft to use a product I already paid for? Something just smells funny so the only choice was to walk away and they stole my money for nothing. There are plenty of alternatives and Microsoft just lost all our business. Now China has dropped most of the leading technology brands of the USA all because of the NSA and who can blame them? Widespread Western cybersurveillance has just gone too far. I would now rather use any product from someplace else or write my own. US technology has commited suicide for China will be the biggest economy where all the economic growth will be in the years ahead. This has impacted U.S. network equipment maker Cisco Systems Inc, which in 2012 counted 60 products on the Central Government Procurement Center’s (CGPC) list, but by late 2014 had ZERO according to Reuters. Apple, Intel, McAfee and Citrx have all been dropped. China is shifting to internal alternatives. http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/26/crisis-in-socialism-or-capitalism/ Quote Crisis in Socialism or Capitalism There is a debate going on that tries to paint the economic crashes as due to capitalism and we should all follow Marx and eliminate wealth handing 100% of all power to government. There are really a lot of people who think communism was correct and the problem is capitalism thanks to greedy bankers. To make it perfectly clear, we are not facing just another cyclical slump that will be overcome with some new legislation. Many are welcoming this crisis of European capitalism as an opportunity to replace it with a better system of more socialism and communism by sheer force. This is why I am doing the Solution Conference NOW. We are going to turn down hard this time and there will be a huge demand to hunt down who done it as if this were some mystery movie with Agatha Christie. This is more than trying to survive with gold coins. Everything could be thrown in the air as the table is just overturned. ... We are not headed to a hyperinflation nor a gold standard – we are headed into electronic money because these people are dead broke. They BELIEVE their fiscal mismanagement has nothing to do with our economic crisis – it is all our fault because we do not pay enough in taxes. This is the way all governments historically destroy themselves through massive deflation and we are plagued by lawyers who think all they have to do is write laws without any comprehension of how society functions. A lot of readers have been sending in emails quoting various officials among central bankers who appear to be quoting me such as Yellen just stating that there will be deflation before inflation. True, central bankers have attended our World Economic Conferences. They are more likely to see the handwriting on the wall than politicians. There are a lot of people blaming central banks as if they are the sole problem. These people are caught up in this crazy theory that inflation is linked to money supply and expect that to function on some mythical one-to-one relationship. What they fail to grasp is the economy creates its own money through lending and the velocity of money, which truly drives inflation. The amount of money need not increase but if everyone spent whatever money they get the same day, the VELOCITY of money would rise and that would be inflationary. This one-dimensional idea of inflation and money supply being tied together cannot be supported by any study whatsoever excluding everything else. http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/22/rising-tide-of-civil-unrest-2/ Quote These Marxist governments that mascaraed as Democracies cannot see that they are killing the future. They are merely the same corrupt Republics that compelled Julius Caesar to cross the Rubicon (http://armstrongeconomics.com/693-2/2012-2/anatomy-of-a-debt-crisis/). The governments infested with lawyer-bureaucrats are writing laws contrary to human nature and then prosecute anyone who dares to try to defend themselves. Government then fights the shadows in their mind fearing their loss of power like a cornered rat. ... ... The problem with consensus is that it is a "winner take all" paradigm, i.e. by definition there is no way for a minority opinion to be heard. Thus the minority can not act on its wisdom and must instead follow the ("Too Big To Fail") herd. So for example, if a minority sees that the consensus is being gamed some how, and wants to break away (vote with their feet) they can not. Rather they have to try to prove to the majority what is happening and get the majority motivated to act. Doesn't that sound a lot like what we do now trying to convince our relatives of the problems with malfeasance in central banking, politics, etc and instead they either ignore us or they adopt Marxist objectives which further the concentration of wealth, e.g. "blame it all on the 1%, while we demand a government that gives us everything for free because we are poor and redistribution is justified!". Whereas when there are competing choices, this is truly decentralization because the minority can autonomously break away to a choice that performs better, and the minority becomes more profitable ("smaller things grow faster, saplings grow to trees but trees don't grow to the moon")... http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/turkey-turning-authoritarian-a-dangerous-global-trend/ Quote Turkey turning Authoritarian – A Dangerous Global Trend In Turkey, fights have broken out in Parliament as proposed legislation has been introduced to eliminate all civil liberties. The new police bill provides dramatically increased police powers allowing them to arrest, search and use firearms during demonstrations. They can now imprison protesters without charges, lawyers, judges, or any civil rights whatsoever at all for up to 48 hours in unspeakable conditions.The entire world is moving closer and closer toward authoritarianism. This is our greatest danger in a Private Wave. As people learn to distrust government, they [the government] become abusive and view the people as the enemy.
Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 27, 2015, 02:01:03 AM Quote from: private msg The USSA is strong-arming all other countries to basically adopt all their laws, or else The countries that refuse risk being "corrected". It is not only that. Every country that is bankrupt from socialism is willingly embracing the hunt for capital for taxes to fund the "99% against the 1%". The sheep don't yet realize the 1% includes them, because the socialism cancer kills the host. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 27, 2015, 02:52:09 AM Attempting to jump through Dwolla's KYC Hoops (from email)
I thought the field on your website that asked for my preferred "display name" was not DBA name, just a website user name alias. Please remove "[redacted]" and set my DBA name to "[my legal name]". I do not possess DBA documentation at this time. Please clarify what you need to see from my ID? Which ID? What was missing? Do you mean you need a higher resolution scan or do you mean you need me to scan every page of my passport? Your message is ambiguous. Also please indicate to me if the IDs I am providing are going to be sufficient? I do not have any additional documents other than the ones I have already provided. I don't want to waste my time trying to improve the scans to your specifications, if you are just going to say you need other documents. Please tell me frankly now so I don't waste my and your time. Thank you. > __________________________________ > Please type your reply at the top of the email... > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Jackson Dahlquist | FEB 26, 2015 01:59PM CST > > > > > Good afternoon, > > We're excited to see that you're planning to use Dwolla for your business. > While reviewing your account, we noticed that there is a discrepancy > between your preferred business name, and registered business name. Our > compliance team is requesting DBA (Doing Business As) paperwork that shows > a correlation between the two business names in order to fully verify this > account. > > You can submit this by logging into your account and uploading a scanned > copy into the upload box on the photo verify page OR you can simply attach > the document to an email reply. > > Also, our Security team was not able to verify the image you uploaded. > Could you please upload a full copy of your photo ID? Our Security team > needs to review the whole identification card to verify your account. > > Please let us know if you have any further questions. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > For your reference this is Case #: 121005 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > Support powered by Dwolla (http://www.dwolla.com/) > > [[4f82ee3f5b3848230c3ef7fa8676bf855a360592-389305975]] Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on February 27, 2015, 03:26:33 AM Compare the Dwolla Morass (DBA, etc) To The Instant Solution!
(I win! ;D 8)) I found the link to your Easy Pay Widget: https://coin.mx/merchant/generate_url Kudos! That can almost entirely meet my needs! That is exactly what I was asking for except one feature appears to be lacking. Although I can sniff the receipt of the BTC at the specified address over the Bitcoin network (or even wait for 1-confirmation on the block chain), I am unable with your current API to get any feedback that a customer has initiated an yet unverified (or partially verified) transaction with you. My understanding is that your full verification process can cause a delay ranging from minutes to days. Some merchants offer intangible goods which have basically no cost and even some merchants are offering for example a 30 day subscription to the paid members only area of a web site. Such merchants often prefer to give immediate access to the customer who has completed the basic instant verification you do for credit cards (e.g. your AVS and geolocation checks, etc). The merchant can rescind the subscription if final payment is never received within some maximum window of time (4 days?). This is about making the experience more pleasant for the good customers. If we make it too frustratingly slow, good customers form bad opinions and we lose good will. Customer attrition rate is very important to business models. I understand you don't want to encourage fraud if merchants give customers immediate access after only the instant verification of credit cards, so merchants need to be careful to give only a very limited access while waiting for final payment. OTOH, you all have to do the slower, more extensive verification procedures any way for each transaction. And I am sure I understand that your profit comes from good repeat customers and from the free referrals you get from bonafide merchants who introduce new customers to this paradigm. So on balance, I think it would be net win-win for both you and the merchants if you add the "callback on initial verification" feature I am suggesting. I eagerly await your feedback and thoughts. We want to work with you to meet mutual synergies. Sincerely, iamback P.S. If ever the card companies accuse you of reselling in violation of any merchant agreement you may have with them, please consider removing the "merchant name" and "product" fields from you API. It is impossible for you to verify if the BTC address you are loading belongs to the customer or a merchant thus it can not be proven you are "reselling". Perhaps this is not a problem for your relationship with the credit card companies; I am just thinking in advance on your behalf. I am very happy you offer this service and I want to help you succeed. > ##- Please type your reply above this line -## > > [Coin.Mx] Re: Simplified proposal to add a merchant service > > Your request (28297) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply > to this email. > ---------------------------------------------- > > Coin.MX, Feb 26, 3:44 PM > > Hi iamback, > > Have you seen our easy pay widget? > > Here is a quick tutorial on how it works. > > Is this something that would work for your purposes? > > Let me know if you have any questions, > Jen > > ---------------------------------------------- > > iamback, Feb 25, 1:55 PM > > I would like to have the customer pay me in BTC using their credit card. I > can use the following capability to generate unique BTC addresses for each > customer: > > https://blockchain.info/api/api_receive > > But I would prefer to have more seamless integration into your website, > where I can direct the customer to a page on your website where the BTC > address is automatically entered, and also supply a return URL that you > send the customer to after receiving all the information you need from the > customer. > > -------------------------------- > This email is a service from Coin.Mx. > > > > > > > > > > [F0B2-0JRR] Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 01, 2015, 10:12:44 AM On more careful reading of the Blockchain.info documentation, 0-confirmations is supported:
https://blockchain.info/api/api_receive Quote A double spend occurs when a malicious user spends the same BTC twice. A payment that initial appears successful could be reversed at a later date. This is counteracted by waiting for the transaction to be included in the blockchain and reaching a number of confirmations. 6 confirmations is generally considered safe for high value transactions. Validate the transaction confirmations in the callback script by checking $_GET['confirmations'] parameter. It is recommended you acknowledge the transaction at zero confirmations but only trust the transaction after one confirmation. For example, if purchasing a product, we would show the order as successful at zero confirmations, but only ship the product when 6 or more confirmations are reached. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 04, 2015, 04:31:44 AM So Dwolla denied me even though I sent them a scan of my (USA) passport, (Philippines) driver's license, and USA Social Security Administration card with my SSN on it. I even gave their system the login credentials to my online banking in the USA! (which I was very wary to do and probably did it only out of desperation)
Below I am not referring to the "unbanked". I think those who have a need for a bank account can get one in much of the third world. I am referring to the banked becoming merchants. I have a bank account, but the damn system won't let me easily become a merchant. Much more so for the billions who are not westerners. The issue is for example not being able to experiment and innovate with different business models without having to walk on egg shells for fear or violating your merchant provider's paranoia. I appreciate the reply and prompt decision, so we don't waste time. I understand you allude to other unstated reasons, but the stated reason doesn't make sense to me. I had written that I would not be using it for virtual currency and would ask permission before if ever wanting to use Dwolla for a virtual currency project. I mentioned virtual currency only to share the the fact that I am busy working in numerous areas, including Android apps. This was part of openness and relating my background as a successful entrepreneur. What have we become as a society if we have to hide things about ourselves and walk on egg shells? I clearly described my current project to you, which has nothing to do with virtual currency and is a common upstanding online entertainment business with no dubious moral aspects. Last night (my time in Asia) I edited my account information online to give you the url of the website of this new business. I stayed awake until 2am trying to bring the website up, but will not be able to get it online until perhaps later today. Btw, I hope you can (at least personally) appreciate the following frankness. This process is indicative of why the autonomy of virtual currencies are going to pummel the existing banking system into the dust. Imagine a talented programmer such as myself who has generated $millions in derivative GDP being stifled by the paradigm of insecure financial systems and kafkaesque KYC theatre. There are billions of creative and innovative people in the world eager to start businesses and totally out-of-reach of this anarchic financial system. If we don't escape from that noose, we will continue to drive the velocity of money into the abyss. It is already down more than -50% since the Patriot Act of 9/11. I assume you can wikipedia the Quantity Theory of Money. > __________________________________ > Please type your reply at the top of the email... > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Brett | MAR 03, 2015 04:03PM CST > > > > > iamback > > Thank you for your email. After a careful review of your account it has > been decided that we will not be able to move forward with your Dwolla > account. One of the reasons this decision was made was because Dwolla > does not support virtual currency. We are sorry for any inconvenience > this may cause. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 05, 2015, 05:28:17 AM Thank you Alan for your reply. I intend no personal animosity to you nor any one at your company.
Yes I will disable my account now. I hereby demand your company please kindly destroy all copies of my identification documents and also all copies of the login credentials for my online banking. Please make sure that information can not retained by any person who has access. Frankly speaking, as far as I could see on your website you do not detail your security policies and procedures. This has been an important learning experience for me about the dystopian value of working with companies that require an invasion of my privacy and security. Sincerely, iamback > __________________________________ > Please type your reply at the top of the email... > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Alan | MAR 04, 2015 02:29PM CST > > > > > Thank you for expressing your concern. I will make sure to pass it along > to our management team, as we are always open to customer's suggestions > regarding Dwolla’s features, processes or functionality of our website. > > However, decisions made by our security team are final. The security team > has determined that we will not be able to support your business under the > provisions of our current terms of service. > > At this point we cannot continue with your account with Dwolla. You can go > to dwolla.com/deactivate to disable your account. > > If there is anything else we can better explain or assist you with, please > let us know. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: jl777 on March 05, 2015, 05:33:44 AM Not surprising.
I am sure that extensive studies have proven that if you dont have 6 months utility bills and deviate in any way from accepted responses, then you are mostly likely some sort of criminal. After all criminals cant get utility bills for some reason. At least that must be the logic as nothing else makes sense why this idiotic policy is being forced globally by the USSA upon all other countries. Even ones that aimed to become like Switzerland used to be (Uruguay) and of course the Switzerland of the past is no more. guilty until proven innocent in the USSA and its territories. coming to a country near you James P.S. In many countries only the actual owner of a property can even get a utility bill. So this essentially creates a landowner/serf system Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 05, 2015, 05:42:51 AM I attempted to deactivate my Dwolla account at the url you provided.
Three attempts always generated the same error as follows. Quote Something's wrong... We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. This is the same error message I experienced in other cases when navigating your system. Thus I must request you manually deactivate my account. And moreover, I request you to erase my account record from your system entirely, not just deactivate it. Given the number technical errors I have observed in your system, I do not trust your computer systems with any of my private information, not even my name, email address, and password. Sincerely, iamback Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 05, 2015, 05:44:36 AM P.S. In many countries only the actual owner of a property can even get a utility bill. So this essentially creates a landowner/serf system Good point. We are sliding into a hierarchical top-down hell. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 05, 2015, 06:04:21 PM To Dwolla Legal Department:
I never performed any financial transaction nor held any monetary balance whatsoever with your company. Thus you have no need to retain my private data. And no, I am not rested assured in your capacity to protect my private data for numerous reasons which I need not detail now. Please kindly comply with my demand to delete my private data from your systems. You have not approved my account, therefor you do not need to retain my private data. Am I going to have to hire an attorney or can we settle this matter now? Do not bullshit me. My father is the former XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and an expert in contract law. There is no law that requires you to retain my private data when you have performed no applicable financial transaction with me. Your TOS does not supersede fundamental requirements in contract law for fairness and mutual incentive to make a contract valid and enforceable. iamback > __________________________________ > Please type your reply at the top of the email... > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Alan | MAR 05, 2015 10:58AM CST > > > > > Thank you for your email, we are sorry to see you go. The Dwolla account has been permanently suspended. > > An automatically generated email stating "There's a problem with your account" will be sent confirming that this action has been completed. > > Our data retention policy is based on the laws applicable to Dwolla. We are required to retain certain customer information even after account closure in order to comply with those laws. Per our policy, we will only retain customer information to allow us to comply with such laws and enforce our TOS. Please be assured that your information is protected and kept secure on our encrypted servers. > > Please contact Dwolla Support if you have any additional questions. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: jl777 on March 06, 2015, 01:51:00 AM To Dwolla Legal Department: I think the USSA you remember is no longerI never performed any financial transaction nor held any monetary balance whatsoever with your company. Thus you have no need to retain my private data. And no, I am not rested assured in your capacity to protect my private data for numerous reasons which I need not detail now. Please kindly comply with my demand to delete my private data from your systems. You have not approved my account, therefor you do not need to retain my private data. Am I going to have to hire an attorney or can we settle this matter now? Do not bullshit me. My father is the former XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and an expert in contract law. There is no law that requires you to retain my private data when you have performed no applicable financial transaction with me. Your TOS does not supersede fundamental requirements in contract law for fairness and mutual incentive to make a contract valid and enforceable. iamback > __________________________________ > Please type your reply at the top of the email... > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Alan | MAR 05, 2015 10:58AM CST > > > > > Thank you for your email, we are sorry to see you go. The Dwolla account has been permanently suspended. > > An automatically generated email stating "There's a problem with your account" will be sent confirming that this action has been completed. > > Our data retention policy is based on the laws applicable to Dwolla. We are required to retain certain customer information even after account closure in order to comply with those laws. Per our policy, we will only retain customer information to allow us to comply with such laws and enforce our TOS. Please be assured that your information is protected and kept secure on our encrypted servers. > > Please contact Dwolla Support if you have any additional questions. complaining to the apparatchiks wont do any good. they just follow their orders Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 06, 2015, 03:13:39 AM I think the USSA you remember is no longer complaining to the apparatchiks wont do any good. they just follow their orders It is possible that contract law is still testable in lower courts outside of New York City. According to Armstrong, in NYC the bankers have complete control. However it is very true that rule of law is disintegrating rapidly in the USSA (and in Europe although it appears the Troika has less thorough coverage of power). http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/31/so-what-part-of-ny-courts-r-corrupt-you-did-not-understand/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/05/30/11910/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/08/the-hsbc-scandal-how-nyc-protects-the-bankers/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/10/22/entire-court-in-california-had-to-step-down-all-judges/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/05/bank-of-england-under-investigation-for-being-too-friend-with-banks/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/26/nsa-destroying-american-technology/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/01/germans-are-spying-on-everyone-in-europe-and-gives-to-nsa/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/04/cia-whistleblower-face-100-years-for-exposing-govt-lies/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/04/the-london-debut-of-the-forecaster-movie-sorry-americans-will-not-see-the-film-in-usa/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/02/us-britain-still-trying-to-take-russia-out-of-swift-system/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/27/brussels-altering-history-to-train-children-to-accept-eu-integration/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/26/supreme-court-justice-wva-found-in-questionable-circumstances/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/and-we-pay-politicians-to-watch-porn/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/intelligence-agencies-plant-fake-evidence-to-start-wars/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/australian-police-give-you-tickets-based-on-their-estimates-of-speed/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/australian-police-hiding-in-woods-to-catch-speeders/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/if-you-want-to-kill-someone-call-the-police-just-say-he-has-gun/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/18/hsbc-geneva-raided/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/18/how-fatca-is-destroying-the-world-economy-americans/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/15/setting-the-stage-for-the-one-world-currency/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/15/g20-leaders-plead-with-fed-not-to-raise-rates/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/14/any-document-older-than-180-days-you-have-abandoned-for-legal-purposes/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/brussels-says-democratic-elections-mean-nothing/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/meeting-of-empire-builders-brussels-v-moscow/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/china-moving-to-replace-usa-as-financial-capitol-of-world/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/swiss-national-banks-looking-now-at-capital-controls/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/08/the-hsbc-scandal-how-nyc-protects-the-bankers/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/tsa-to-arrest-anyone-charged-with-any-crime-trying-to-come-or-leave-including-taxes/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/05/the-sharp-rise-in-hoarding-cash-deflationary-trend/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/03/where-can-we-flee-to-this-time/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/31/the-hunt-for-taxes-this-will-not-end-nicely/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/31/airlines-engaging-in-consumer-fraud-sponsored-by-congress/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/29/us-government-tries-to-hide-how-much-tax-they-really-get/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/28/cops-going-after-kids-shoveling-snow-they-want-their-cut/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/kerry-exposed-as-a-liar/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/donetsk-major-explosion-tactical-nuke-or-just-a-big-bomb/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/13/the-minsk-agreement-on-ukraine-putins-victory/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/08/europe-will-move-closer-to-russia-greece-will-exit-euro/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/putin-seeks-to-divide-conquer/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/ecbs-qe-program-implemented-without-a-vote/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/ecbs-is-not-stimulating-economy-its-a-bank-bailout/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/30/is-europes-austerity-policy-just-incompetent/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/our-sources-in-germany-isolate-greece/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/eastern-ukraine-to-fall-to-russia-sanctions-failed/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/10/14/brussels-shuts-down-catalonia-referendum/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/30/spanish-court-denies-spanish-right-to-vote/ Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: BitcoinDistributor on March 06, 2015, 03:55:12 AM Hi a lot of angry people.
Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: jl777 on March 06, 2015, 05:01:50 AM I think the USSA you remember is no longer complaining to the apparatchiks wont do any good. they just follow their orders It is possible that contract law is still testable in lower courts outside of New York City. According to Armstrong, in NYC the bankers have complete control. However it is very true that rule of law is disintegrating rapidly in the USSA (and in Europe although it appears the Troika has less thorough coverage of power). http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/31/so-what-part-of-ny-courts-r-corrupt-you-did-not-understand/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/05/30/11910/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/08/the-hsbc-scandal-how-nyc-protects-the-bankers/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/10/22/entire-court-in-california-had-to-step-down-all-judges/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/05/bank-of-england-under-investigation-for-being-too-friend-with-banks/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/26/nsa-destroying-american-technology/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/01/germans-are-spying-on-everyone-in-europe-and-gives-to-nsa/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/04/cia-whistleblower-face-100-years-for-exposing-govt-lies/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/04/the-london-debut-of-the-forecaster-movie-sorry-americans-will-not-see-the-film-in-usa/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/02/us-britain-still-trying-to-take-russia-out-of-swift-system/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/27/brussels-altering-history-to-train-children-to-accept-eu-integration/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/26/supreme-court-justice-wva-found-in-questionable-circumstances/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/and-we-pay-politicians-to-watch-porn/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/intelligence-agencies-plant-fake-evidence-to-start-wars/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/australian-police-give-you-tickets-based-on-their-estimates-of-speed/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/australian-police-hiding-in-woods-to-catch-speeders/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/23/if-you-want-to-kill-someone-call-the-police-just-say-he-has-gun/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/18/hsbc-geneva-raided/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/18/how-fatca-is-destroying-the-world-economy-americans/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/15/setting-the-stage-for-the-one-world-currency/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/15/g20-leaders-plead-with-fed-not-to-raise-rates/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/14/any-document-older-than-180-days-you-have-abandoned-for-legal-purposes/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/brussels-says-democratic-elections-mean-nothing/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/meeting-of-empire-builders-brussels-v-moscow/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/china-moving-to-replace-usa-as-financial-capitol-of-world/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/swiss-national-banks-looking-now-at-capital-controls/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/08/the-hsbc-scandal-how-nyc-protects-the-bankers/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/tsa-to-arrest-anyone-charged-with-any-crime-trying-to-come-or-leave-including-taxes/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/05/the-sharp-rise-in-hoarding-cash-deflationary-trend/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/03/where-can-we-flee-to-this-time/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/31/the-hunt-for-taxes-this-will-not-end-nicely/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/31/airlines-engaging-in-consumer-fraud-sponsored-by-congress/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/29/us-government-tries-to-hide-how-much-tax-they-really-get/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/28/cops-going-after-kids-shoveling-snow-they-want-their-cut/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/kerry-exposed-as-a-liar/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/donetsk-major-explosion-tactical-nuke-or-just-a-big-bomb/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/13/the-minsk-agreement-on-ukraine-putins-victory/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/08/europe-will-move-closer-to-russia-greece-will-exit-euro/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/putin-seeks-to-divide-conquer/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/ecbs-qe-program-implemented-without-a-vote/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/ecbs-is-not-stimulating-economy-its-a-bank-bailout/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/30/is-europes-austerity-policy-just-incompetent/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/our-sources-in-germany-isolate-greece/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/eastern-ukraine-to-fall-to-russia-sanctions-failed/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/10/14/brussels-shuts-down-catalonia-referendum/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/30/spanish-court-denies-spanish-right-to-vote/ anyway, to expect any sort of logic based response or even a response that is the right response, this is unrealistic. If you keep threatening them, soon you will appear on no-fly lists and even on most wanted lists to question the authority of USSA is a crime. Even to think about the wrong things is a crime now Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: iamback on March 09, 2015, 06:30:06 AM Compare the Dwolla Morass (DBA, etc) To The Instant Solution! (I win! ;D 8)) I found the link to your Easy Pay Widget: https://coin.mx/merchant/generate_url I found another alternative solution to avoid credit cards entirely, which is applicable to my site business model: I tested the web miner and I am getting about 0.8 kH/s in Firefox on my recent model i7 running Linux Mint 17, which appears to be comparable to those running a downloaded miner (http://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/2ey9fw/miners_share_your_rig_setup_and_hashrate/ck4k0ry). Thus I assume their web miner is employing C and/or assembly code. So if their API was improved so their affiliate widget (https://minergate.com/affiliate/web-miner) could be employed to impose a delay of a few seconds on all visitors, the bots would also experience a similar resource cost (for as long as these altcoins are not mineable by ASICs or assuming the bots are hijacked computers that only have CPUs also). However, the economics are two orders-of-magnitude less profitable compared to Captcha advertising revenue. Using their calculator or this one (https://www.whattomine.com/coins/101-xmr-cryptonight) that appears to generate about $0.02 per hour. Whereas solvermedia.com can generate slightly less than $0.01 per Captcha (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRpXRJHCTv0) view (i.e. even if user doesn't respond to the Captcha). Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: smooth on July 22, 2015, 03:52:56 AM coin.mx I thought I remembered the name coin.mx from somewhere. Found it on this old thread. New developments: Since at least late 2013, MURGIO, LEBEDEV, and their co-conspirators have knowingly operated Coin.mx, a Bitcoin exchange service, in violation of federal anti-money laundering (“AML”) laws and regulations, including those requiring money services businesses like Coin.mx to meet registration and reporting requirements set forth by the United States Treasury Department. Title: Re: Seamless ecommerce sell to credit cards & receive Bitcoin? Post by: TPTB_need_war on July 22, 2015, 04:59:48 AM coin.mx I thought I remembered the name coin.mx from somewhere. Found it on this old thread. New developments: Since at least late 2013, MURGIO, LEBEDEV, and their co-conspirators have knowingly operated Coin.mx, a Bitcoin exchange service, in violation of federal anti-money laundering (“AML”) laws and regulations, including those requiring money services businesses like Coin.mx to meet registration and reporting requirements set forth by the United States Treasury Department. Good for me that I never used their service then. Interestingly they had emailed me a couple of months ago asking me if I had ever used the service. TBTP are closing all the avenues for escape from their total control over all fiat commerce. |
