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My god.  This is an amazing book and I'm not even 100 pages into it yet.  I can't wait to get home to continue reading it.  If the rest of the book is as good as the part I've already read then this is the book I would have written had my life taken a different path and I was 10 years older.

http://www.amazon.com/Oligarchy-Jeffrey-A-Winters/dp/0521182980/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343847115&sr=8-1&keywords=oligarchy

I challenge and recommend every user on this forum to read this book.  Prior to this book I was recommending a host of other books to best illustrate my opinions on such matters as economic theory and social morality.  But this book seems to best 'get to the bottom' of what I was trying to illustrate with a myriad of other books.  Plus it's shorter and more concisely gets the point across.

The central thesis of the book is something so obvious that it has taken hundreds of hacks, scribblers and paid-off and bankrupt ideologues to confuse the people of the USA what their ancestors used to know, that being:

*  That there has always existed an oligarchical class wherever there is large discrepancies of wealth (legitimacy of that wealth notwithstanding)
*  That this group is interested above all else in growing and maintaining their wealth
*  This is the primary focus to understand the entirety of history, politics, socio-organizations and much else, as it is an ever-present force that is universal in character.  It is a universal historical consent, and therefore integral to understanding anything about history and present day events.

Nothing could, in fact, be more obvious than these basic tenets and if present and past events are viewed through this perspective it is infinitely more valuable of an analysis.  Yet through the ideology of Classical Liberalism and its most rancid and virulent present form: Libertarianism; us Westerners have been made to forget these most elementary facts.

Read this book and you'll have a greater understanding of where I'm coming from than anything I've previously cited as a thing to read.  I can already tell that this book is going to be classic - that is, if we are to have any chance at a future, then it must be.

Who's going to take up the challenge?

Is it giving exact names, institutions, dates and places?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Summary of the book via Amazon.

"For centuries, oligarchs were viewed as empowered by wealth, an idea muddled by elite theory early in the twentieth century. The common thread for oligarchs across history is that wealth defines them, empowers them, and inherently exposes them to threats. The existential motive of all oligarchs is wealth defense. How they respond varies with the threats they confront, including how directly involved they are in supplying the coercion underlying all property claims, and whether they act separately or collectively. These variations yield four types of oligarchy: warring, ruling, sultanistic, and civil. Oligarchy is not displaced by democracy but rather is fused with it. Moreover, the rule of law problem in many societies is a matter of taming oligarchs. Cases studied in this book include the United States, ancient Athens and Rome, Indonesia, the Philippines, Singapore, medieval Venice and Siena, mafia commissions in the United States and Italy, feuding Appalachian families, and early chiefs cum oligarchs dating from 2300 BCE."

niemivh, I think I'll give this one a shot. I'll let you know my thoughts on the matter once I've finished it.

Ill read it...interested to hear what got you all excited

This is probably going to end up being one of my top two books.

+9001

I'm telling you, it'll be worth it.  Much more condensed than the things I was cited you earlier.  This will do the job of what all those other books might not have been able to do.

I'm not sure how it will convince me that the answer to a feared concentration of power is a concentration of power, but, like I said, I'll give it a shot. It may be some time, though... Twins, ya know.

anyone know where I can get this book for free/less than 13 bucks?

Check to see if it's available at your local library. Couldn't hurt.

ya already did. My libraries suck

This look like an interesting book, but it's not a new idea. Jefferson warned us about them. Kubrick threaded this theme throughout his films. It's not a conspiracy though, it's just who we are. Just being in this forum you are helping to enlighten the future about the nature of money. It's always technology that gives us progress.

It clearly shouldn't be a new idea, but here in the Western World oligarchy and the rule of wealth has been largely conditioned out of us, and it wasn't an accident or a coincidence.  This book firmly re-establishes ancient to contemporary history showing that oligarchy is alive and well and must be considered as one of the central tenants, one of the prime movers for modern political realities.  To not understand it is to be forever politically blind and flailing in the dark.

Do you have any bitcoins?

Here is some pictures to explain the, perhaps, subtle differences in our views of 'what is, presently, in power?' and 'what is at the heart of the evils of our present day system?'


You see this:
The State
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQm9UkynLzVhwTRKUqS58-1xPhTboZXfmCVgBCBD5zPjvN85O-H


I see this:
The Oligarchy
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR24YpYaE52JNHSGGlk9wy9L531dnFA_5kC5QlAhD7OmZXJ4LSpCA


You see this:
The State
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQG4xugIPZ6YJoTC1cth1ev8fDwW9qzQ5xD4fhwIgkCPLVLnbmQpQ

I see this:
The Oligarchy
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkxBABph1TfP6OKBvwc9QwzsREGSAJUWk48t7HxTaCoMkDu5QzFA

You see this:
The State
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyMFJum5fp0s9dCnFw8SktH12wWQa2HHa9d3fboYWpEbe901bP

I see this:
The Oligarchy
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2ya194HXBbAFkd2xTftFJZqr8GhQ5A1JtKbB2uPX0Y-mdn0VJ


Hope that was as fun for you as it was for me.
 ;D

That's interesting advice, coming from you. I recall recommending a few books to you, and suggested the library as a source to enable you to read the books. I didn't appreciate your answer, quoted within the dialog below:

Oh jeeeze.  Here we go again.

 :-[

It needn't be that way. If myrkul advocates going to the library after all, he can jolly well head on down to one himself and pick up a few books on various subjects.

Let's try to keep this thread on topic, that being this book and the ideas that are contained within it.

Please?

 :)

Rest assured, I'm not going to rise to his troll-bait. If he has something productive to say, I'll respond, but crap like that gets an eye-roll and a click on the "hide" link.

As to this:


Yeah, that was pretty funny. Rest assured, though, I see the dude behind the curtain. Just because I tell the people, "Hey, that Wizard is an ass-hole" doesn't mean that I don't also tell the people who agree that yeah, the wizard is an asshole that he's just a dude behind the curtain. But if I start shouting on the rooftops that the wizard is just a dude behind a curtain, I'll get laughed at.

Point of the info-graphic, being, of course, that while the oligarchy uses the abstraction or organization of "The State" or "Government" or "The Guy or Class of People That Have Convinced Everyone Else That They Should Be Able To Do Whatever They Want" depending on the historical time-line is just the cover for the endless wealth accumulation, greed and avarice of eternal lust for more power and more wealth by that class of people.  It is this Greed that they serve and ITS nature that needs to be understood, not so much the mannerisms, formalities and customs of the existing methods by which said objectives are accomplished.  This is the difference from (brace for impact of analogy) seeing the boxing glove hitting you in the face and trying to understand ITS purpose over the purpose of the boxer who is delivering it into your jaw - where the intention driving the system is actually exposed.

In addition, the Libertarian doctrines ignore the development and creation of the modern State, which was (despite its obvious failings) a huge leap-forward in regards to individual rights and freedom.  The "Oligarchy" book is covering this fairly well, and another reason I recommend it so highly (presently on page 120 of this book, unfortunately my life is getting in the way of reading this as fast as I'd like).

Once this is learned, then you realize (pursuant to this analogy) that the boxer beating you in the face has no monopoly on being able to use 'the glove', and you prepare to 'suit up' yourself to punch them back and see how they like it.

Crudest analogy evar.

Yeah, it's kinda crude. But it works. To continue it, I could get in the boxing ring, and duke it out with that guy, but he's bigger, he's had more practice, and he's got a longer reach than I do. So, rather than get in the ring and hope to put in a few good punches before I go down, I avoid the ring entirely, and laugh as he swings his fists at open air.

What if you aren't in a ring and the other person (or group) is instigating it against your will, and every corner of the earth is dominated by such oppressors that have to get their nose bloodied before they learn not to try and bully you?

Well, then it would be in my best interest to gather with a large enough group of people who also do not want to box that we can prevent being forced into a match.

I think we're straining the limits of this analogy.

http://freestateproject.org/  (http://freestateproject.org/) is one answer to it.

It's funny.  One of my fav British actors was discussing a trip to LA for talks in a US remake of the show he was staring in.

He mentioned to the Studio exec's/writers that one of the qualities that made the British show so popular was the depiction of characters in well defined class stations.  That the characters were real and relate-able.

The Studio people said in response, "That wont work in America.  We have a classless society."


It's amazing how people's perception can be so disconnected from reality.

People also say that in Australia but they forget we are still a monarchy. Just before the Queen visited Victoria last year they crushed the Occupy Melbourne protest so she wouldnt see the tents in city square.

You see this and realise as soon as you try and fight back the ruling class will trample you with horses. We need another way.


 It seems cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

Well, yes, that's my "anti-boxing league," specifically, the Shire Society (http://shiresociety.com/).

What if the 'ring' is the world and there is no place to run and avoid this confrontation?  What if the only way to beat a bully is to stand your ground and let it be made clear that you are to be respected?

This is really, quite well I may add, touching on the nature of the present Libertarians who are doing everything they can to alienate themselves.  Their ego-ideal is to live 'off-the-grid' on a totally self-enclosed little bubble.  This is like admitting defeat in my book, as it simply writes off civilization as a lost cause in the futile, naive and child-like belief that you can simply live in your tree-fort for the rest of all time.

That's one answer to it, yes.

But if that's an answer then this is also an answer:  "adfglilivwelkcvuibmeqilcviowerasdfdfzcv".  The reason that that is an answer is because both are worth about the same in regard to actual reality.

+1

LOL, we sure do.  Everyone's just a future billionaire.

Problem with Occupy being, of course:

*  No Program
*  No Leadership
*  No political strategy

Did I say anything about running? No.