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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: Wilikon on March 11, 2015, 08:37:01 PM



Title: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Wilikon on March 11, 2015, 08:37:01 PM


(edit: full title added)
Going to Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone




Airport security can throw out your mouthwash, make you walk barefoot in public and conduct a full-body scan — but do they have the right to get into your phone?

Canadian man Alain Philippon encountered the dilemma when he flew into Halifax Stanfield International Airport last week, returning to his home country from the Dominican Republic, and border agents demanded that he enter the password to unlock his phone so they could search it, the CBC reported.

Philippon refused, saying the information on his phone was “personal.”

He was arrested.


Do border agents have the right to force someone to unlock their phone?

In the U.S., the Fifth Amendment protects individuals from self-incrimination and as the Electronic Frontier Foundation notes, law enforcement generally needs a warrant to compel the unlocking of a phone or computer because providing the password is considered self-incriminating testimony by most courts.

However, as CNET noted, even though the Supreme Court has ruled that cops need a warrant to get a phone password, U.S. border agents don’t need a warrant or even individualized suspicion to conduct a “forensic” search of your phone or computer.

As for Canada, the issue of phone passwords has apparently never been tried in court.

Philippon will go to court on May 12, facing charges of hindering border agents under Canada’s Customs Act, the CBC reported.

He could face up to a year in jail and a $25,000 fine — and the Canada Border Services Agency wouldn’t even tell the CBC why Philippon’s phone had been targeted for inspection in the first place.

For now, travelers should be prepared to surrender their rights at the Canadian border.

“Under the Customs Act, customs officers are allowed to inspect things that you have, that you’re bringing into the country,” Rob Currie, director of the Law and Technology Institute at the Schulich School of Law at Dalhousie University, told the CBC. “The term used in the act is ‘goods,’ but that certainly extends to your cellphone, to your tablet, to your computer, pretty much anything you have.”



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/10/going-to-canada-police-can-force-you-to-show-them-everything-you-have-on-your-phone/




Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: manis on March 12, 2015, 12:59:29 AM
I thought the primary reasons for body searches at the airport are
- To make sure that you are not carrying any arms/ explosives before flying.
- To make sure that you do not carry any drugs or any items which attract import duty before entering the country.

Are there any other reasons? What could possibly be there in a phone?
If the court rules in favour of this man, can he sue the government for wrongful arrest?


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Bobsurplus on March 12, 2015, 01:01:25 AM
Fuck that. I travel all the time and never ever ever would I give CBSA my passwords for any device.. Who do these guys think they are?
I hope Alain Philippon kicks their asses in court.

I'll be following!


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Rishblitz on March 12, 2015, 01:06:40 AM
At my school they basically do this. its really ridiculous sometimes but I do understand why with some of the accidents involving students taking pictures of teachers.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Vod on March 12, 2015, 02:00:07 AM
Swab the phone for explosives.  If it comes up clean, can't touch it.

That being said, I always prepare my phone for international travel.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Wilikon on March 12, 2015, 02:56:47 AM
Swab the phone for explosives.  If it comes up clean, can't touch it.

That being said, I always prepare my phone for international travel.


That's a good idea.




Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: (oYo) on March 12, 2015, 04:00:43 AM
I'm assuming they're just checking your phone to see if you have any numbers saved as 'Bomb'.  :D

At my school they basically do this. its really ridiculous sometimes but I do understand why with some of the accidents involving students taking pictures of teachers.
What's the problem with taking pictures of teachers? Do you mean the ones they take during sex with teachers? ???


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: nsimmons on March 12, 2015, 04:05:23 AM
Fix the title, this is CBSA, border security, not police or the RCMP.

Police need a warrant to search your phone if it is locked after you've been arrested. If your phone is not locked, they don't need a warrant, after you've been arrested.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: (oYo) on March 12, 2015, 05:30:05 AM
Fix the title, this is CBSA, border security, not police or the RCMP.

Police need a warrant to search your phone if it is locked after you've been arrested. If your phone is not locked, they don't need a warrant, after you've been arrested.
It is essentially the title of the article.

"Going to Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone"


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Bit_Happy on March 12, 2015, 05:36:16 AM
Simple, do not own a portable phone/mini-computer.
Why allow yourself to be a slave to "devices", and have you noticed all the other zombies staring at those things all day?


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: freedomno1 on March 12, 2015, 05:39:41 AM
Well I do remember we left a computer in another country
Upon returning to Canada they wanted to inspect the computer we didn't have so it does not surprise me they would want to check peoples phones.
Now is that legal, I think not but it needs to be tested out in the court of law.

(Also hope he does not get prison for this stupid charge, not really one of those things I say someone deserves to be jailed for)


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Wilikon on March 12, 2015, 03:26:36 PM
Fix the title, this is CBSA, border security, not police or the RCMP.

Police need a warrant to search your phone if it is locked after you've been arrested. If your phone is not locked, they don't need a warrant, after you've been arrested.


I had to compress the title to make it fit. When you click on the link you see the full title. I will not change that but will put the full title in the body of the text for now on...




Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: bitgeek on March 12, 2015, 04:54:02 PM
Simple, do not own a portable phone/mini-computer.
Why allow yourself to be a slave to "devices", and have you noticed all the other zombies staring at those things all day?

Come on, that's like asking people not to have an internet connection. Have you ever been on a long distance train, like the one that you have to sleep on? A phone or a netbook is a life saver there. I remember how bored I was when there were only 3 things I could do: read a book, sleep or look through the window and I still had 10 hours until arrival.
On a plane they at least give you a movie to watch and the view is better.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Possum577 on March 12, 2015, 05:11:14 PM
Why did they ask to see his phone? What suspicion did they have? What "probable cause"?

I've never heard of a border agent asking to look in someone's phone so I'm assuming that this guy had or did something that led border agents to believe they needed to see the phone.

If this guy was just a victim of a random search I hope he wins his case and sparks a privacy rights movement in Canada.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: redsn0w on March 12, 2015, 05:18:18 PM
That's insane, where is the privacy? Can they really look "into" your phone? I cannot or better "I do not know" how they can do this (and obviously I will go to Canada one day  http://nodownloadzoneforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/Asd.gif, I really want to see if they will ask me to show my phone).


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: Rishblitz on March 12, 2015, 09:18:57 PM
I'm assuming they're just checking your phone to see if you have any numbers saved as 'Bomb'.  :D

At my school they basically do this. its really ridiculous sometimes but I do understand why with some of the accidents involving students taking pictures of teachers.
What's the problem with taking pictures of teachers? Do you mean the ones they take during sex with teachers? ???

One of them took a picture of a sub and posted it on ask.fm and people started shit on her on that website then another kid last year took a picture of a teacher when she was wearing a minii skirt.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: 2dogs on March 12, 2015, 10:49:47 PM
Here is a great story by Jeffery Tucker on his recent harassment crossing into Canada:

https://lfb.org/3-important-lessons-from-a-canadian-border-crossing/

At border crossings, governments have discovered that they can get away with seizing and searching electronic devices from smartphones to laptops to tablets. The reason is that it is standard practice that border officials can ask you anything. Anything at all. You have to answer. They can make you empty the full contents of your brain and check for even the smallest misstatement. You can refuse to answer, but then you can expect detention for untold amounts of time. So of course, you comply.

<snip>

What did I learn?

    Never approach the passport window without being extremely clearheaded about what you are going to say.
    Don’t ever reverse your story in light of questioning. Tell necessary truths, but never volunteer unnecessary information.
    Put all your digital devices away deep in your bags. Do not pull them out at any point in approaching any border. And if you ever get a secondary     screening, prepare to have all necessary information stored in some place other than your live cellphone.




Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: funtotry on March 12, 2015, 10:52:39 PM
I don't think we are getting the full story here. Was he a murderer or suspected of receiving some texts showing evidence on his phone? I seriously doubt that the police would randomly do phone checks, never had that happened to me and I travel in and out of Canada all the time.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: hgerson on March 15, 2015, 07:39:34 PM
I'm assuming they're just checking your phone to see if you have any numbers saved as 'Bomb'.  :D

At my school they basically do this. its really ridiculous sometimes but I do understand why with some of the accidents involving students taking pictures of teachers.
What's the problem with taking pictures of teachers? Do you mean the ones they take during sex with teachers? ???

Spot on!  ;D

Here is a great story by Jeffery Tucker on his recent harassment crossing into Canada:

https://lfb.org/3-important-lessons-from-a-canadian-border-crossing/

At border crossings, governments have discovered that they can get away with seizing and searching electronic devices from smartphones to laptops to tablets. The reason is that it is standard practice that border officials can ask you anything. Anything at all. You have to answer. They can make you empty the full contents of your brain and check for even the smallest misstatement. You can refuse to answer, but then you can expect detention for untold amounts of time. So of course, you comply.

<snip>

What did I learn?

    Never approach the passport window without being extremely clearheaded about what you are going to say.
    Don’t ever reverse your story in light of questioning. Tell necessary truths, but never volunteer unnecessary information.
    Put all your digital devices away deep in your bags. Do not pull them out at any point in approaching any border. And if you ever get a secondary     screening, prepare to have all necessary information stored in some place other than your live cellphone.




This is common sense.

In some countries be prepared to bribe or be detained for hours or days.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: rokkyroad on March 15, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
Quote
I don't think we are getting the full story here.

I agree. There was, most likely, a little red flag attached to his ID. Perhaps he was busted for smoking pot when he was 18. Perhaps he was caught "urinating in a public place" at one time and charged. This might add "sex offender" to his ID.

Another person I know tried to bring a car stereo across the border without declaring it. This act gave him the "little red flag".

One should be very careful of what they do in youth or suffer the consequences down the road.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: jaysabi on March 15, 2015, 09:54:23 PM
Quote
I don't think we are getting the full story here.

I agree. There was, most likely, a little red flag attached to his ID. Perhaps he was busted for smoking pot when he was 18. Perhaps he was caught "urinating in a public place" at one time and charged. This might add "sex offender" to his ID.

Another person I know tried to bring a car stereo across the border without declaring it. This act gave him the "little red flag".

One should be very careful of what they do in youth or suffer the consequences down the road.

Here is a much more reputable story on the incident: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/quebec-resident-alain-philippon-to-fight-charge-for-not-giving-up-phone-password-at-airport-1.2982236 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/quebec-resident-alain-philippon-to-fight-charge-for-not-giving-up-phone-password-at-airport-1.2982236). Authorities won't say why they asked him to unlock his phone, but I can't think of an instance where that level of intrusion is warranted. Even if "sex offender" was added to his ID as you suggest, that doesn't justify demanding access to your phone upon return to the country.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: rokkyroad on March 15, 2015, 10:35:17 PM
Quote
Authorities won't say why they asked him to unlock his phone, but I can't think of an instance where that level of intrusion is warranted. Even if "sex offender" was added to his ID as you suggest, that doesn't justify demanding access to your phone upon return to the country.

Believe me. I'm on his side. I'm just saying there must have been something that drew notice from the border agent. If there is the slightest chance of finding child porn on someone's phone the border agents are going to go for it.


Title: Re: Canada? Police Can Force You to Show Them Everything You Have on Your Phone
Post by: leopard2 on March 15, 2015, 11:23:13 PM
well, he did provide the phone for inspection, but refused to reveal the content of his mind, the question now is whether the constitution is valid at the border or not

it would boil down to encryption being illegal when crossing borders  :o

naturally the technical solution is easy, using a backup tool with encryption with plausible deniability, then resetting the phone to factory settings

are there any good image backup tools for phones?