Bitcoin Forum

EDIT: 17th March after some discussions I got all the bitcoins we agreed on.

This guy is making business not based on two parties agreement but on his own mood.

We agreed on 24-Feb 2015, that I sell 2x Antminer S4 for 4.5 BTC (including shipping) to him.

He got my miners 03-Mar 2015

Then he started to stall sending btc to me (he promised, that he will send after miners are delivered and verified).

Finally on 6th March he asked if he could pay less ???, as BTC value was higher now. I disagreed as we agreed to make the deal in BTC, we did not mention EUR nor USD anywhere while negotiating. I did not want to sell for fiat, btc only. So it is not my fault that exchange rate raised. Also if exchange rate would have gone lower I would not have backed my deal and claimed for more - no, we agreed the deal was 4.5 btc for 2 miners no conditions.

On 9th March he asked if I can provide invoice as he could not pay me otherwise...? The same day we agreed that exchange rate on the time of purchase was 209 EUR for one Bitcoin (he wrote me that and I agreed that exchange rate). So I made an invoice for him: https://i.imgur.com/QamBnSB.png (https://i.imgur.com/QamBnSB.png)

On 11th March I began to loose my patience, he said that in he's opionion I do not deserve more than 3.894 btc (that he did sent to me and I got it) which is approx 940.50€. Well.. I agree to disagree, we had a deal in BTC not in EUR as I described earlier. Also we agreed that exhange rate at the time we made a deal was 209 EUR / BTC. Not 241,525 what he used to send me those 3.894 BTC.

So I am missing 0,606 BTC from him.

All above can be proved and is documented.

BE WARNED when making deals with Protact or Daniel (Truman)

But when it came to the invoice, you put a price in EUR on it. If you didn't mention EUR or USD while negotiating, then how can he know it was not pegged to the price in EUR? It was never mentioned after all.

Don't get me wrong, I feel with you. From your point of view you made a deal in BTC. Just that, nothing else and thats fine. However, it seems like it wasn't that obvious to him. Until here, I see no problem. If things happened the way you described up to this point, then its clearly his fault for not adding a EUR pegging into the contract before agreeing.

...but then you sent an invoice with a EUR price on it. I think this was a big mistake. He can now claim that the price is right there in EUR and that, at the moment of the transfer, he gave you BTC worth that exact amount.
In my opinion you should have created an invoice in BTC. That way you'd be safe from him claiming it was a EUR pegged sale.


What is the applicable jurisdiction for this?

^^this

You said, you made a deal in BTC, then how in hell did you come up with an invoice in EUR?
If i may guess, I'd say it was Trumans idea, If so, that's where he tricked you out of your Coins.

Anyway, he has a history of screwing people, so you're not alone and I too feel with you.
Thanks for sharing your story.

Yes, it was not the best move to do a invoice in €.

But they both agreed to do a countertrade (4,5 BTC against two used S4).
At this time they made a valid contract.

eestimees fulfilled his obligation and delivered.
Protact wanted to change the contract. eestimee refused.
From my understanding Protact then asked for an invoice in € for accounting purpose, so that he can pay.

They agreed that the countertrade was valued 9xx€ when it was closed.
But this was no contract amendment! Truman still has to fulfill his obligation
(transfer the ownership of 4.5 BTC)

If you don't agree with that point of view, and argue that they changed the contract:
The payment terms on the invoice are very clear. It includes the agreed exchange rate and the final amount in BTC.

Even if you still not agree.
I think if we take a look into the correspondence between the two it should be clear that eestimees never wanted to change the contract.
So there was a mistake in the utterance. And he can rescind the change.


I do not see any possibility that Truman legally can shirk the full payment!

Definitely it's bad business behavior.
And shows very well with whom you don't do business.

So far, we only heard one side of the story. I really think you should
quote your PMs with Truman here (personal details left out), so
everyone can assure oneself that it happened as you said.

I don't want to defend Truman, doing business with him certainly
has his downsides (e.g. he is not very responsive, that is true).
But up to now he honored all agreements we had. Once he even
paid the shipping costs for returning a PSU to me (it was clearly
not his obligation to pay for that). So my experience is actually not
too bad.

I will do that, I gave him 7 days more time (5 left now). As I stated above, all is documented.

Sorry my friend. This is a german section. I understand your Angry but please write in German. Google Translate will help you. Thanks a lot.

Oh no please not..  :o

He did pay 0,4 btc out of his 0,606 btc of his dept.

Without comment?

so still 0,206BTC debt

We are communication via e-mail. I just changed my invoice to reflect exchange rate of 1 btc / 270 € so he could send me missing coins (the 0,206). I do not understand his viewpoints, but I'll rest the case if I get all that we agreed for. 

Today I got all bitcoins we agreed on.

I have make many deals with him and never have any problem.

Daniel(protact) for me is the best guy i have buy machines..

;)

of course he is a scammer. everyone here knows that.

Wy you say that? I have make some deals with him and he never scammed me.

Wieso kommt mir nun plötzlich dieses Bild in den Sinn?

https://i.imgur.com/kwyIlom.jpg

Iam not understand!!!!

What was with your delayed units?

I only received from him one S4 with 2 weeks delay.

This is "the best" for you? No Problem?

Who has mined this 2 weeks, with the unit you paid for?
What do you think?

Maybe you should change your supplier, to see how smoothly things can run. ;)

I dont see that you have any S4 in stock - since month!  ::)

Yes, because I, unlike you, just sell goods that is in stock or in the feed.
And the S4 is EOL since months...

But I do not see the connection  ???



In addition, you wanted to say goodbye to the forum!
Well, your word is worth nothing....